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Saint Seiya Discussion Thread (IV)

Saint Seiya and his hyperbole
Oh it’s quite literal, the manga even talks about a real life case where the negative temperature phenomenon occurred. Rerise of Poseidon is the last manga you could joke about that with, because the author loves using science in this story.
 
I ment story wise
I would say it might actually be better in terms of characterization. The story is roughly analogous to one another, but there’s small details like Kaasa being kind of soft hearted in the middle of this chapter that stood out to me. Speaking of kaasa, he’s pretty good in this manga. And that’s not my kaasagenda talking.
 
I would say it might actually be better in terms of characterization. The story is roughly analogous to one another, but there’s small details like Kaasa being kind of soft hearted in the middle of this chapter that stood out to me
Characters are probably better true. Shura and Aiolia "talking" about Aiolos was so ass.
 
Virgin ReRise with cheetah speed Mariners, tier 6 feats and 7 contradictions
Vs
Chad Dark Wing with casual ftl Gold Saints, on panel universal feats and compelling characters
You forgot to mention that one of these mangas has Scorpio Eulalia, and the other does not.:sneaky:
 
I would say it might actually be better in terms of characterization. The story is roughly analogous to one another, but there’s small details like Kaasa being kind of soft hearted in the middle of this chapter that stood out to me. Speaking of kaasa, he’s pretty good in this manga. And that’s not my kaasagenda talking.
Characterization? I have to remember that Sorrento wanted to eliminate humanity because his adoptive parents wanted to make a little money from his musical talent, and because at the school he attended, the students treated each other badly. The poor parents were just trying to earn some money to escape poverty or the lower-middle class, but their son wanted a genocide because of that. :censored:
LEppDcS.jpeg


Bro 😭
It's funny too because Suda literally drew Terpsichore and Nemesis on a beach.
Bruh
And the two of them together don’t even have 10% of Eulalia’s charisma.:cool:

It’s a shame that Terpsichore’s and Nemesis’ breast size wasn’t proportional to their charisma.🥵
 
The special chapter of The Lost Canvas was just as I imagined when I read the synopsis last month. The person who would appear before Christ would be Pandora, and they would talk about Radamanthys. Can you imagine if in some later chapter Shiori connected a story of Pandora with Dark Wing, and didn’t explain that Pandora’s last wish is for her soul and Radamanthys’ soul to meet again in some world where both can be free from Hades’ control? And that way, it would confirm that Shoichiro and Yoruhime have the souls of—or are a reincarnation of—Pandora (TLC) and Radamanthys (TLC).

I imagine something like Demiurge hearing Pandora’s plea and transferring her soul and Radamanthys’ soul to the world of Dark Wing.
 
Characterization? I have to remember that Sorrento wanted to eliminate humanity because his adoptive parents wanted to make a little money from his musical talent, and because at the school he attended, the students treated each other badly. The poor parents were just trying to earn some money to escape poverty or the lower-middle class, but their son wanted a genocide because of that. :censored:
That’s his Poseidon arc character, he’s progressing from that point. Since at this point in the fight, he couldn’t bring himself to fight for the earth because he still views it as corrupt, but it’s his realization that he was wrong that gives him the will to burn his Cosmo to the point of the Arch Scale. Also, I’m pretty sure his parents were rich weren’t they? They honestly were just using him for income. I think on Suda’s blog, Sorrento was described as being a rich kid who judged the worlds on his own experiences.
 
The special chapter of The Lost Canvas was just as I imagined when I read the synopsis last month. The person who would appear before Christ would be Pandora, and they would talk about Radamanthys. Can you imagine if in some later chapter Shiori connected a story of Pandora with Dark Wing, and didn’t explain that Pandora’s last wish is for her soul and Radamanthys’ soul to meet again in some world where both can be free from Hades’ control? And that way, it would confirm that Shoichiro and Yoruhime have the souls of—or are a reincarnation of—Pandora (TLC) and Radamanthys (TLC).

I imagine something like Demiurge hearing Pandora’s plea and transferring her soul and Radamanthys’ soul to the world of Dark Wing.
My thoughts too. Dark Wing could conclude their character arcs by giving them a happy ending free of their respective fates
 
The Sho Memories chapter focused on Erda was as expected. Chimaki showed Erda’s fight against the Black Saints who killed her master, a detail that was only mentioned in the original manga. Perhaps the only interesting part is that Erda’s girlfriend at Saint Academy (who was killed by Deathmask) was a Black Saint.

For now, since there’s no translation of the chapter, the only notable feat is that Erda (without her armor), similar to Ikki, could defeat several Black Saints with a single blow. This confirms that she is truly above an average Bronze Saint at the beginning of the series, something Deathmask mentioned, as he found it surprising that her flames could burn three of his hairs.

Saintia Sho and Rerise had chapters with characters who use high-temperature fire techniques, but none of them affect the terrain where they are fighting. In this franchise, only Shiori and Okada have remembered that raising the temperature to such extreme levels should affect the ground, melt rocks, etc..😮‍💨

Volume 2 of Saint Mariya included data sheets of Mariya and Setsuna.
gjyJVX9.jpeg

So both of them are 16 years old. For some strange reason, I thought they would go with the classic idea and be between 13 and 14 years old. Also, Mariya is Sagittarius and Setsuna is Virgo, so pretend to be surprised by this revelation.😲

Why can’t the protagonists have a constellation other than Sagittarius? Even in Sho, I always expected Shoko to be a Scorpio because of her connection with Milo, and that at some point she would end up wearing that armor. But she ended up being a Sagittarius, just like Seiya, Koga, and now also Mariya. 😰

My thoughts too. Dark Wing could conclude their character arcs by giving them a happy ending free of their respective fates
That would be really nice; it’s finally time for a major character in a Saint Seiya manga to get a happy ending.🥲
 
Why do people insist that what is presented in Saint Seiya is a hyperbole?.:unsure:
If it is actually a franchise where the characters’ powers and abilities are clearly described, and it has a considerable number of cosmic-scale feats to support the power of the franchise.

For example:
  • Episode.G: The Titans created their own pocket universes.
  • Episode.G Requiem: The Primordial Gods eliminated all the stars in the sky.
  • Saintia Sho: Eris created a universe for her sister, and her awakening also generated a burst of light visible from the far reaches of the universe.
  • Next Dimension: Shijima’s cosmos affects distant dimensions, and his clash with Shaka created and destroyed countless universes (one of the best feats in fiction, since Kurumada literally not only describes what happens, but also attempts to draw it—if it were a hyperbole, why bother illustrating it?)
  • Dark Wing: Demiurge is described as the creator of countless universes.
  • Dark Wing: Sojiro with his Galaxian Explosion was able to strike (and probably destroy) the body of Demiurge sealed in a distant dimension, generating an explosion visible from the Dark Wing universe and is described that his technique had the power to destroy dimensions.
  • Dark Wing: The technique Extra Dimension, which Demiurge uses while possessing Sojiro’s body, consists of sending the opponent to another dimension and destroying it.
  • Saint Seiya Ω: Tokisada mentions that he would create a Big Bang, and his technique generated a black hole which began to consume the dimension they were in. We can even see a star starting to be absorbed, and it is also described that his technique would devour the time and space of that dimension.
  • Saint Seiya Ω: Abzu is described as the creator of the universe (probably a multiverse) and the incarnation of primordial darkness that creates and destroys everything.

I could continue like this with more cosmic-scale feats in the Saint Seiya franchise. It’s even funny that the word "hyperbole" is mentioned when almost every Saint Seiya series (except Rerise and Mariya, although with what was shown in the latest chapter and that flame created from a negative absolute temperature in Kelvin, maybe even Rerise now has a major feat) has at least one cosmic-scale feat.

Aiolia is a Leo and Shura is a Capricorn
It’s true, but I was specifically referring to the manga or series that are protagonized by a Bronze Saint. I guess I should have been a bit more specific in my comment.😭
 
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Why do people insist that what is presented in Saint Seiya is a hyperbole?.:unsure:
If it is actually a franchise where the characters’ powers and abilities are clearly described, and it has a considerable number of cosmic-scale feats to support the power of the franchise.

For example:
  • Episode.G: The Titans created their own pocket universes.
  • Episode.G Requiem: The Primordial Gods eliminated all the stars in the sky.
  • Saintia Sho: Eris created a universe for her sister, and her awakening also generated a burst of light visible from the far reaches of the universe.
  • Next Dimension: Shijima’s cosmos affects distant dimensions, and his clash with Shaka created and destroyed countless universes (one of the best feats in fiction, since Kurumada literally not only describes what happens, but also attempts to draw it—if it were a hyperbole, why bother illustrating it?)
  • Dark Wing: Demiurge is described as the creator of countless universes.
  • Dark Wing: Sojiro with his Galaxian Explosion was able to strike (and probably destroy) the body of Demiurge sealed in a distant dimension, generating an explosion visible from the Dark Wing universe and is described that his technique had the power to destroy dimensions.
  • Dark Wing: The technique Extra Dimension, which Demiurge uses while possessing Sojiro’s body, consists of sending the opponent to another dimension and destroying it.
  • Saint Seiya Ω: Tokisada mentions that he would create a Big Bang, and his technique generated a black hole which began to consume the dimension they were in. We can even see a star starting to be absorbed, and it is also described that his technique would devour the time and space of that dimension.
  • Saint Seiya Ω: Abzu is described as the creator of the universe (probably a multiverse) and the incarnation of primordial darkness that creates and destroys everything.

I could continue like this with more cosmic-scale feats in the Saint Seiya franchise. It’s even funny that the word "hyperbole" is mentioned when almost every Saint Seiya series (except Rerise and Mariya, although with what was shown in the latest chapter and that flame created from a negative absolute temperature in Kelvin, maybe even Rerise now has a major feat) has at least one cosmic-scale feat.


It’s true, but I was specifically referring to the manga or series that are protagonized by a Bronze Saint. I guess I should have been a bit more specific in my comment.😭
People read Classic and write off the entire verse as hyperbolic. As you said most spin offs have a cosmic feat, usually done by a Gold Saint
 
People read Classic and write off the entire verse as hyperbolic. As you said most spin offs have a cosmic feat, usually done by a Gold Saint
Even the original manga contains detailed descriptions of the characters’ power and speed. It is not merely stated that they move at the speed of sound or light; Kurumada himself clearly explains in the story what the speed of sound and the speed of light are (such as Aiolia stating that the speed of light is 300,000 km/s, and that at this speed one could circle the Earth seven times in a single second). The manga also provides precise descriptions of extremely low temperatures and how much each Cloth can endure, describing absolute zero in detail. In addition, it presents feats such as the gods’ cosmos covering the universe or descriptions of the size of the Underworld created by Hades, which is the scale currently used for the entire franchise. This is the same Underworld that we later see being destroyed at the end, after Hades’ defeat.

As I said, almost every series in the franchise features some kind of cosmic-scale feat to support the characters’ power, and this has been present since the original manga, which is the foundation of the franchise. For that reason, it is curious to see someone bring up the word “hyperbole” when talking about Saint Seiya. Especially when Kurumada, as one of the fathers of modern shōnen, was one of the mangaka who popularized this idea of having characters describe their abilities in detail within the story—something that other mangaka later imitated, giving us series where characters explicitly explain their abilities, such as Fate, Bleach, Hunter × Hunter, and others.
 
It's only Luffy because he has immense bias towards any verse not Dragon Ball
A Dragon Ball fan—why doesn’t that surprise me? I mean, they’re the kind of fans who, to try to prove something about that series, will use a description from a magazine or guide from over 30 or 20 years ago in which Toriyama didn’t even participate. But when it comes to Saint Seiya, using information from guides, magazines, websites, spin-offs, or any kind of official material is apparently not possible. 😵‍💫
 
Why do people insist that what is presented in Saint Seiya is a hyperbole?.:unsure:
Good question I wonder that too (and not even in the there will always be those type of guys in any popular fandom, but in the why it's even greater than the standard for some reason). Sadly these people that think it's all just symbolism and hyperboles do exist.
Remember guys it's all symbolism absolutely everything
 
Has anyone here read Saint Seiya Then II?.

The fact that Aiolos is communicating with Athena through his testament and that he restores Saori’s memories is quite interesting. In addition, the fact that he is the one who tells her that Athena still has a mission to fulfill and must protect the Earth seems to imply that he knows the future and is aware that Athena will have to fight a new battle.

This is not the first time we have seen the Gold Saints, in spirit form, know certain details about the future. For example, Ilias knew the future and mentioned details of it to Sisyphus and Asmita. Because of this, it seems like a rather interesting detail to me.

Additionally, according to the preview in next month’s Champion RED, it will include the next chapter of The Lost Canvas special and the next chapter of Saintia Shō: Memories, which will be focused on Rigel, who is traveling through Eden and may add some lore about that place. The new chapters of ReRise and Dark Wing will be published in February.

He’s nothing but truthful, damn.
However, he is mistaken about one detail.

You would think that with such a progressive character and progressive themes, Mr Kurumada would finally give female characters their chance to shine and have them substantially impact the story for once to portray how much he had grown as a person and a writer.

Kurumada genuinely wants female characters to shine in his franchise, but as he himself has made quite clear, he has difficulties writing female characters in his stories. Because of this, they often have a more limited role in the manga he creates. However, people forget that this is precisely why he has requested the creation of spin-offs starring women, such as Saintia Shō and Mariya, which even seem to be among the spin-offs he is most interested in. Likewise, it was Kurumada who suggested the inclusion of a woman in the group of protagonists in Omega, which is why Yuna was included. In the same way, he has shown no problem with the removal of the mask rule in the most recent projects and even seems to suggest that women should have greater participation in these works.

Some people seem to forget, or simply wish to deny, Kurumada’s involvement in the various spin-offs and projects of the franchise.
 
Good question I wonder that too (and not even in the there will always be those type of guys in any popular fandom, but in the why it's even greater than the standard for some reason). Sadly these people that think it's all just symbolism and hyperboles do exist.
Ironically, time Oddysey does show us that the saying comes from a bronze saint fighting someone for 1000 days
 
Ironically, time Oddysey does show us that the saying comes from a bronze saint fighting someone for 1000 days
The funny thing is that nowadays there is even the concept of a battle that transcends the battle of the thousand days: the eternal battle, in which they will now fight eternally, even through the cycle of reincarnation. This is shown as something real, since Shun and Tenma nearly sacrificed themselves to stop that battle, because otherwise Athena would have lost two valuable Gold Saints forever.

Additionally, it is also curious that they mention this:
"Neither the golden saints can break the Freezing Coffin" - it's a taunt from Camus about how hard his coffin.

The original context of the phrase is not that the Freezing Coffin is indestructible, nor that not even the combined power of the Gold Saints could destroy it. The context simply indicates that the Freezing Coffin is so strong that it could withstand the power of some Gold Saints. This is a detail that Kurumada even corrected in the Final Edition, where he removed the word “several” from the text, and it now only states that a Gold Saint could not destroy it. In other words, a Gold Saint within the average of his rank would not be able to break that technique, something that is mentioned and demonstrated in the story.

Saint Seiya: Final Edition - Volumen 7, p.99
Shiryū: 老師に聞いたことがあるもしそれがカミュの作り出した柩ならば... 黄金聖闘士の力をもって破壊しようとしても不可能だと
Shiryū: “I heard from my master that if that coffin was created by Camus, it would be impossible to destroy it, even with the power of a Gold Saint.”

However, a Gold Saint above the average can destroy the Freezing Coffin. That is why we saw Aiolia, who is stronger than the average Gold Saint, destroy that technique with the Lightning Boltin in Episode G (Chapter 34). In the same way, we also saw how Minos, the weakest in terms of raw destructive power among the Three Judges, destroyed Hyoga’s Ice Wall (Freezing Coffin) with a single blow, even though Hyoga is superior to Camus.


Kurumada consistently presents the Three Judges as having remarkable power, even when compared to the Gold Saints. In terms of power, they are equivalent to the elite among the Gold Saints.

Kurumada’s lines are usually not as inconsistent as those people believe; it’s simply that sometimes the context of what Kurumada is trying to convey is ignored. In addition, there is also the problem of errors in some translations.:geek:
 
The original context of the phrase is not that the Freezing Coffin is indestructible, nor that not even the combined power of the Gold Saints could destroy it. The context simply indicates that the Freezing Coffin is so strong that it could withstand the power of some Gold Saints. This is a detail that Kurumada even corrected in the Final Edition, where he removed the word “several” from the text, and it now only states that a Gold Saint could not destroy it. In other words, a Gold Saint within the average of his rank would not be able to break that technique, something that is mentioned and demonstrated in the story.

Saint Seiya Final Edition: Volumen 7, p.99
Shiryū: 老師に聞いたことがあるもしそれがカミュの作り出した柩ならば... 黄金聖闘士の力をもって破壊しようとしても不可能だと
Shiryū: “I heard from my master that if that coffin was created by Camus, it would be impossible to destroy it, even with the power of a Gold Saint.”

However, a Gold Saint above the average can destroy the Freezing Coffin. That is why we saw Aiolia, who is stronger than the average Gold Saint, destroy that technique with the Lightning Boltin in Episode G (Chapter 34). In the same way, we also saw how Minos, the weakest in terms of raw destructive power among the Three Judges, destroyed Hyoga’s Ice Wall (Freezing Coffin) with a single blow, even though Hyoga is superior to Camus.

Nice catch
 
Hey, lemme ressurect a question a bit quick:

I understand that Shaka was not able to kill Hashun entirely, cuz Hades' soul was occupying the body and it'd be way harder to kill it
but if Shaka was also unable to harm the body at all, why would Athena tell him to stop? Ain't that enough proof for something?
 
Hey, lemme ressurect a question a bit quick:

I understand that Shaka was not able to kill Hashun entirely, cuz Hades' soul was occupying the body and it'd be way harder to kill it
but if Shaka was also unable to harm the body at all, why would Athena tell him to stop? Ain't that enough proof for something?
I get where you are thinking honestly, but it would speak more so on Hades having a new body of which hes not fully utilize yet than Shaka being strong. Ultimately it's far from enough proof of anything.
 
Hades having a new body of which hes not fully utilize yet than Shaka being strong. Ultimately it's far from enough proof of anything.
Didn't Shun-Hades show that he became a 1000 times stronger earlier within a moments notice against Ikki?
 
Didn't Shun-Hades show that he became a 1000 times stronger earlier within a moments notice against Ikki?
I'm assuming you mean the moment he got full control of Shuns body knocking out Ikki, which he would then have the 1000 times power boost that Poseidon did?
 
Imo it justifies them having possibly the same tier, been saying that since 2023 lol
 
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