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Penny wise is unbound by time? He experiences past, present, future all st once? and it sometimes confuses him.
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It: Welcome to Derry Discussion Thread
- Thread starter darkphantom9805
- Start date
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Of course he does, its how he does most of his shenanigans, including the "hallucinations" that can interact with people, he uses reality warping to keep the crazy separate from everything else so he can do whatever, he can revert things just as easily
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- #43
someone should make a list of all the new things he showed during the series
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Should Haloran genuinely get a page due to being able to mindF*$# a god?
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- Thread starter
- #45
so how does Pennywise immortality work he was killed yet he still lives in the show ?
rpmblack
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He was still inside it and was completely unnaffected, if I was inside a car and it smashed into a million pieces but I remained unharm, would i not scale even a bit?
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He didnt "die" AZFK actually has a pretty good term to call avatars, finger puppets, Pennys finger puppet can be dealt with, but only the others like Maturin can really stop him
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Yeah, but he didn't create what took the impact and The Deadlights are just pure light, so they wouldn't really be tanking anything or even a small amount of the meteor's KE.
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I dont really think his avatar goes beyond 9-A to 8-C at best, its just really haxy, said hax being far greater than his physical form, which makes more sense when you see bullets tear through him
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IDK, the ending made it obvious he was trying to get to the kids and stop them, the moment he saw Rich he stopped being affected by the gunfire, so classic arrogance ig
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No he does not exist at all points in time. He just views time non linearly, some type of acausality or immeasurable speed for his true form more likely.
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- Thread starter
- #53
how is he still alive after dying in chapter 2 then ?
rpmblack
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The show takes place before? It is a prequel series.
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- #55
the director states they are going backwards in time hence why in the show pennywise states he’s trying to change his death by killing one of their ancestors Pennywise died the movies and the show isn’t so much a prequel but a sequel it’s why he said his death is his birth
Marge and lily talk about it at the ending
rpmblack
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Well, we're going have to see if that pans out well for him or not in the next seasons.
Ralp0054
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At the end of chapter 2, did his metaphysical form also die? That is, while stating that his death was actually his birth, was he emphasizing that even if his physical form died, his true form was timeless? He's saying that the future, the past, and the present are all the same to him, and there's no difference. I haven't read the book, is the death depicted at the end of the book applicable in his true form?
rpmblack
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it's debated but in my opinion the true form is not dead, but the death in the film seems pretty definitive since we literally see the deadlights die and it doesn't seem to be a true form situation like the book where it's a completely transcendent plane of existence.
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Okay, from what I understand, Pennywise DIED in IT: Chapter 2, but because he experiences the past, present, and future simultaneously, this caused a past version of Pennywise to alter the timeline at its root, acting before he definitively dies at the hands of the Losers.
Pennywise mentions that due to his confinement, he is limited to a single time and space at once, implying that without these conditions, he could act freely, so perhaps he is virtually omnipresent? This would also grant him Type 1 Acausality.
Pennywise mentions that due to his confinement, he is limited to a single time and space at once, implying that without these conditions, he could act freely, so perhaps he is virtually omnipresent? This would also grant him Type 1 Acausality.
Ralp0054
He/Him- 505
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I also believe in Aca type 1.
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in the final episode he created a massive blizzard could this get him to the class E rages of strength and up his AP massively?
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This may be due to the severing of Pennywise’s connection after the destruction of the avatar he uses to access Earth. In the novel, it cannot truly be said that he is killed; rather, the threat is neutralized because his link to Earth is cut. The same situation may apply here. The Deadlights turning blue and disappearing could symbolize the loss of dominion over Earth rather than true annihilation. As for his return in the series, it may be because he knows every moment of Earth’s timeline and thus goes back to the past (or may already be actively present there) to try to draw the world into his darkness. After all, time has no real significance for Pennywise, so his “death” in 2016 would be meaningless to him. Part of this is my own theory. We will likely understand what truly happened more clearly in later seasons; for now, it is difficult to say what will happen.
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I think its more that all versions of penny across the ages are the same one, same mind but different time. So some level of omnipresence doesnt sound too off. And it would be a weird deviation from the original story if our boy was actually able to die at the end of IT ch2, because not only is that a massive and strange overhaul to make, it also devalues the reason penny exists. Penny is the reveal that the light at the end of the tunnel was just a freight train coming your way, the embodiment of all things bad, it would be strange to be able to kill evil incarnate, and def not a steven king message. It's the reason why the deadlights are still live, evil can be quelled, but never truly erased.
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I agree
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Him creating the massive mist that covered all of Derry and beyond and was freezing the river should 100% upscale his AP but wouldn't do anything for his strength
HASE-1929
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He does survive one of the beams from the shards which causes him only minor injuries.
which did make a decently notable hole in the clouding
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- #67
Do the deadlights remove the souls of his victims? In the 1st movie when he opened his mouth you could hear his previous victims trapped in the deadlights screaming for help is that their souls or what is that exactly?
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he caused a blizzards as for one we see the storm above it and that we see snow falling down too
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I just started getting into the Show recently. I wasn't expecting it to be very good after Chapter 2 which was okay, but kinda meh. Usually these kinds of spinoffs are cash grabs, but I'm glad I gave it a chance. Happy to be wrong on this lol. I made a sandbox for some new powers from Welcome to Derry. Haven't gathered everything together yet, and will and scans later, but trying to gather everything in one place.
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We will have to wait for more confirmation, but I agree that the Deadlights disappearing likely shows that IT can no longer affect manifest enough to effect Earth but isn't completely gone. While, I consider his manifestation dead, its a distinction without a difference for a cosmic being that exists non-linearly. Like with the link to the deadlights severed when his Avatar is killed it remains "dead" as of the present. He's "dead/dormant" in the same way Cthulhu is "dead". But since the Deadlights are still around in some form, he can still puppeteer his past avatars. Because defeating Pennywise in Chapter 2 only severed the connection from that point onward, but it did for the past. Idk just spitballing ideas. It's a distinction without a difference though. As for why he can't just make a new avatar form, my theory is that it has to do with how the Tribe sealed him, but that's 100% speculation.
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- #71
All we know is that he’s apparently omnipresent and is going back in time to reverse his own death
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Yeah, what I said was mostly speculation on my part. That being said he should still have Acausality from this still even without any speculation. This wouldn't give him Omnipresence per-se, but it should still upgrade his Multilocation.
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He's merely seeing the future in 1962, he did not reincarnate. He's not in a time loop. He also cannot prevent his own death. He said birth because he's genuinely the "bros just typing shi" entity and the biggest rage baiter oat I wouldn't take the "Is it birth" line too seriously
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I have tried to gather as much information as possible about It's feats and statements. It may be a bit rushed, but I will share them because I believe these are things that should be discussed here.
It creates a family and strikes Matty at his weakest point, because Matty is a child who has problems with his family. Then It creates a mutant baby and kills Matty. This is probably not a very significant feat, but I wanted to include it since it is still one of It’s accomplishments.
It completely takes control of the cinema, even altering the footage, and kills three children. This seems like some form of technological manipulation, and possibly dimensional manipulation as well, since it transitions from a 2D image into the 3D real world. This could imply that it has the ability to alter or shift its own dimensional state.
It makes Ronnie appear as if he is in a mother’s womb—actually not just as if, it truly does this. I’m having trouble defining it, and I’m not sure what this would practically grant or imply as an ability.
By completely controlling Lilly’s perception, it alters how the supermarket appears to her, ultimately causing her to even smash a jar of pickles. I think this qualifies as illusion creation, because when the illusion ends, we see people looking at Lilly as if she were insane.
According to General’s view, It can generate fear strong enough to kill a person instantly.
It can teleport instantaneously and assume a form far larger than its original one.
I think Pennywise’s fear manipulation is far stronger than normal. Dick, who can read Hanlon’s mind, says that Hanlon is not afraid. However, when Pennywise identifies Hanlon’s weak point and threatens him using Will, we see Hanlon act in a way that is clearly different from his usual behavior, driven by fear or intense anger.
It uses text manipulation or something similar, because the children first take the photos, we see that It’s ghostly forms appear in them, but later those images are erased.
It turns Marge’s eyes into worm-like eyes and causes her unbearable pain. I think this counts as disease manipulation, because a few scenes earlier in class they show that worms’ eyes become like that due to a disease.
It came to Earth inside a star and is an evil spirit.
It takes control of Hanlon’s mind and unlocks the “chest” where he keeps his fears. I think this chest is metaphorical—what Dick calls a chest is simply the place in his mind where he suppresses his fears. By breaking this chest, It bypasses Dick’s mental defenses, which suggests a much stronger form of mind manipulation, or possibly additional abilities beyond normal mental influence. These are also more statements
It shows Lilly an illusion and, in a way that’s hard to describe, appears to her as her father. I couldn’t find the full scene on YouTube, but if you’ve watched the series, I’m sure you’ll understand what I mean.
Pennywise walks through the flames, so I think he has resistance to fire. I couldn’t find the full scene on YouTube, sorry about that.
Here, we see Pennywise manipulating spirits and setting them upon Dick. I think these can be defined as the dead or as spirits. I haven’t thought about which hax should be assigned, but I’m at least certain that it counts as soul manipulation.
Pennywise calls Will on the phone and then suddenly appears right behind him.
Pennywise creates a massive storm that grows over time and also takes control of the minds of all 9th and 10th grade students.
After all of this, let me move on to the part that excites me the most. As you know, in Pennywise’s conversation with Marge, it states that yesterday, today, and tomorrow—meaning the future, the past, and the present—are essentially meaningless. This can be described as acausality, which would be correct to an extent, but there is more to it. In an official statement published on HBO Max’s YouTube account, it is said that Pennywise’s true form, the Deadlight, reveals far more than human comprehension can grasp. The Deadlight is described as an interdimensional entity. Based on all of these statements, I believe that the Deadlight—It’s true form—would be 4D, that is, L2-C ( all links are provided here )
Please keep in mind that everything I wrote was done in a rush. I did not even think about what these feats or statements would scale to; I simply wrote down whatever came to mind at the moment. At the very least, I wanted to include them here because I believe these feats should be noted.
It creates a family and strikes Matty at his weakest point, because Matty is a child who has problems with his family. Then It creates a mutant baby and kills Matty. This is probably not a very significant feat, but I wanted to include it since it is still one of It’s accomplishments.
It completely takes control of the cinema, even altering the footage, and kills three children. This seems like some form of technological manipulation, and possibly dimensional manipulation as well, since it transitions from a 2D image into the 3D real world. This could imply that it has the ability to alter or shift its own dimensional state.
It makes Ronnie appear as if he is in a mother’s womb—actually not just as if, it truly does this. I’m having trouble defining it, and I’m not sure what this would practically grant or imply as an ability.
By completely controlling Lilly’s perception, it alters how the supermarket appears to her, ultimately causing her to even smash a jar of pickles. I think this qualifies as illusion creation, because when the illusion ends, we see people looking at Lilly as if she were insane.
According to General’s view, It can generate fear strong enough to kill a person instantly.
It can teleport instantaneously and assume a form far larger than its original one.
I think Pennywise’s fear manipulation is far stronger than normal. Dick, who can read Hanlon’s mind, says that Hanlon is not afraid. However, when Pennywise identifies Hanlon’s weak point and threatens him using Will, we see Hanlon act in a way that is clearly different from his usual behavior, driven by fear or intense anger.
It uses text manipulation or something similar, because the children first take the photos, we see that It’s ghostly forms appear in them, but later those images are erased.
It turns Marge’s eyes into worm-like eyes and causes her unbearable pain. I think this counts as disease manipulation, because a few scenes earlier in class they show that worms’ eyes become like that due to a disease.
It came to Earth inside a star and is an evil spirit.
It takes control of Hanlon’s mind and unlocks the “chest” where he keeps his fears. I think this chest is metaphorical—what Dick calls a chest is simply the place in his mind where he suppresses his fears. By breaking this chest, It bypasses Dick’s mental defenses, which suggests a much stronger form of mind manipulation, or possibly additional abilities beyond normal mental influence. These are also more statements
It shows Lilly an illusion and, in a way that’s hard to describe, appears to her as her father. I couldn’t find the full scene on YouTube, but if you’ve watched the series, I’m sure you’ll understand what I mean.
Pennywise walks through the flames, so I think he has resistance to fire. I couldn’t find the full scene on YouTube, sorry about that.
Here, we see Pennywise manipulating spirits and setting them upon Dick. I think these can be defined as the dead or as spirits. I haven’t thought about which hax should be assigned, but I’m at least certain that it counts as soul manipulation.
Pennywise calls Will on the phone and then suddenly appears right behind him.
Pennywise creates a massive storm that grows over time and also takes control of the minds of all 9th and 10th grade students.
After all of this, let me move on to the part that excites me the most. As you know, in Pennywise’s conversation with Marge, it states that yesterday, today, and tomorrow—meaning the future, the past, and the present—are essentially meaningless. This can be described as acausality, which would be correct to an extent, but there is more to it. In an official statement published on HBO Max’s YouTube account, it is said that Pennywise’s true form, the Deadlight, reveals far more than human comprehension can grasp. The Deadlight is described as an interdimensional entity. Based on all of these statements, I believe that the Deadlight—It’s true form—would be 4D, that is, L2-C ( all links are provided here )
Please keep in mind that everything I wrote was done in a rush. I did not even think about what these feats or statements would scale to; I simply wrote down whatever came to mind at the moment. At the very least, I wanted to include them here because I believe these feats should be noted.
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Isn't a lot of this reality warping support?
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Probably yes. I’m just very tired and didn’t really think about what these would amount to, but honestly, it would be absurd for Pennywise not to have reality warping.
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Some of these are literally just Occams Razor, reality warping just is needed to properly explain some of these considering how many abilities Penny would need to do some of these. Like the fact he can genuinely wreck house but somehow leave things untouched after, even though they actually interact with ****.
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Not sure why that's hard to describe, that is her father. The head, at least. Idk what work accident could've possibly caused this tho. All I know is it was a pickle factory
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IIRC I think there were gears involved for a jarring machine, which explains why he appeared in them and why the kids around Derry reference thatNot sure why that's hard to describe, that is her father. The head, at least. Idk what work accident could've possibly caused this tho. All I know is it was a pickle factory
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Just that much? The guy looks like an octopus made of pickles—I wasn’t sure how accurate a description it would be, so that’s why I wrote it like that.Not sure why that's hard to describe, that is her father. The head, at least. Idk what work accident could've possibly caused this tho. All I know is it was a pickle factory
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