Superman speed upgrade and abilities addition

[Eficiente]

That's just semantics. Even if we believe he is just "adding a cause," he would be disrupting all the causes that were in place around it and as a side effect of it. At which point, he is fitting that super literal interpretation of the wording in the Causality Manipulation page.

But that interpretation is not even correct in the first place, to manipute causality is Causality Manipulation. Limiting it to this and that specific manipulations of causality is just an error in the wording. I would bet my headphones on that.

 

[Rgerdeena]

That's just semantics. Even if we believe he is just "adding a cause," he would be disrupting all the causes that were in place around it and as a side effect of it. At which point, he is fitting that super literal interpretation of the wording in the Causality Manipulation page.

based on our causality manipulation page, causality manipulation is about changing the effect without changing the cause not about disrupting the cause

But that interpretation is not even correct in the first place, to manipute causality is Causality Manipulation. Limiting it to this and that specific manipulations of causality is just an error in the wording. I would bet my headphones on that.

I didn’t make that interpretation, that’s what it says on the causality manipulation page, you can make a CRT about changing it if you want to but until then we have to use the definition on the causality manipulation page

 

[GeneralSol16]

Hell, no.
Rebirth Clark doesn't have Imme Speed, he used the Flash's treadmill to do it, that's stated in the comic itself.

 

[Ozcantabak]

Hell, no.
Rebirth Clark doesn't have Imme Speed, he used the Flash's treadmill to do it, that's stated in the comic itself.

I'm pretty sure this has been adressed by the OP and Emrip.

 

[Antvasima]

Hell, no.
Rebirth Clark doesn't have Imme Speed, he used the Flash's treadmill to do it, that's stated in the comic itself.

This makes sense to me.

 

[Rgerdeena]

Hell, no.
Rebirth Clark doesn't have Imme Speed, he used the Flash's treadmill to do it, that's stated in the comic itself.

That is just supporting evidence, there is 1 scan of a statement that he can time travel and 1 scan of a statement that he can time travel from raw speed

 

[FroYoSans]

How do you think the timeline was corrupted because you have provided no reasoning as to why you think that the timeline being corrupted wouldn’t mess up time travel via immeasurable speed and what do you mean it makes more sense if Superman uses time travel to time travel that makes no sense because time travel does not allow time travel, time travel is time travel and he definitely is not time traveling merely by being FTL because he and characters that he can keep up with go FTL all the time without time traveling

And unlike current Mark Waid who's trying to be vague with the "Beyond Light Speed time travel" bs, Simon Spurrier made a point that that's not enough as he had Wally break right past the "light barrier" and all the way past the Infinity of the Source Wall

Wally travels far beyond everything beforehand and reaches "curve at the edge of infinity" travelling beyond it

 

[FroYoSans]

That doesn't matter because he doesn't go faster than light while trying to time travel all the time. It's not a binary on whether or not the character has FTL feats or not, the intentionality of their moves matters to determine what special things activate due to them.

Well Wrap it ladies and gentlemen, no one in DC has Immeasurable speed minus the big names 🗣🗣

 

[FroYoSans]

Hell, no.
Rebirth Clark doesn't have Imme Speed, he used the Flash's treadmill to do it, that's stated in the comic itself.

...you do know the Cosmic Treadmill doesn't add any speed right? You still have to power it entirely on your own with your own speed

 

[GeneralSol16]

Thqg

...you do know the Cosmic Treadmill doesn't add any speed right? You still have to power it entirely on your own with your own speed

That's not how it works in that comic by the context, it was interpreted more like a time travel machine by that writer.
So, that's how it works in that context, so no, it is not a speed feat

 

[AerrowStorm1]

Thqg

That's not how it works in that comic by the context, it was interpreted more like a time travel machine by that writer.
So, that's how it works in that context, so no, it is not a speed feat

The Cosmic Treadmill works EXPLICTLY by only making it so you can pinpoint the time you want to travel to and is powered by the user's own speed.


Examples 1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

Now, in AC 992, all we have is Superman calling it Flash's personal time machine and saying Flash showed him how to set the date and location, then he EXPLICTLY begins running and says "let's see if I can do the same". This implies he's unsure if he's fast enough to use it. Booster spends the entire arc only using the Treadmill as a beacon for his Time Sphere to use.

Even in this story, it's treated as a time machine powered by the user's own speed, not just a time machine.

 

[Vasco]

the speed feat is done via the treadmill, not his actual speed. So if iirc it dosnt count as immeasurable

the rest seems to be good

Treadmill is only used for navigations, you need to have immeasurable level speeds to actually use it and it's just to send you to the exact ordinates through time or the multiverse you wanna go

 

[Eficiente]

Well Wrap it ladies and gentlemen, no one in DC has Immeasurable speed minus the big names 🗣🗣

It's not about upgrading or downgrading, it's about what makes the most amount of sense as a basis, then everything else follows from that. Portraying it like you you do here poisons the conversation, so let's not do that.

Treadmill is only used for navigations, you need to have immeasurable level speeds to actually use it and it's just to send you to the exact ordinates through time or the multiverse you wanna go

That would be difficult to prove.

 

[Rgerdeena]

That would be difficult to prove.

See the comment right above the one you responded to

 

[Eficiente]

I don't deny it uses/is powered by the user's own speed. It's not the first time nuance like this has been ignored.

But let's talk about those scans:

• This link states the speed of the user to generate radiation or negative pulses, which are is released by the machine sending the user into the future or past. In other words, that radiation or negative pulses cause the time travel. This scan says something similar, that the user needs to supply the machine with the raw energy it needs.
• Most of the scans imply something similar about how the user can't know where they're going if they Time Travel by themselves (Minus Thawne, who figured that out). In this scan Flash calls it "guess work at best." In this scan he says "The cosmic treadmill. It allowed me to calibrate the exact era we could run to. Without the treadmill, we wouldn't have any control over where we landed."

This goes back to what I said about Superman, and how he most definitely meant to say the same thing.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

This link states the speed of the user to generate radiation or negative pulses, which are is released by the machine sending the user into the future or past. In other words, that radiation or negative pulses cause the time travel. This scan says something similar, that the user needs to supply the machine with the raw energy it needs.

Well, that seems like the nail in the coffin for cosmic-treadmill feats.

 

[Avaritia_603]

Agreed with the speed

 

[Rgerdeena]

This link states the speed of the user to generate radiation or negative pulses, which are is released by the machine sending the user into the future or past. In other words, that radiation or negative pulses cause the time travel. This scan says something similar, that the user needs to supply the machine with the raw energy it needs.

The first scan acts like the treadmill makes them time travel and also says that flash can time travel without it so I think the fact that it contradicts itself makes it not usable for anything

• Most of the scans imply something similar about how the user can't know where they're going if they Time Travel by themselves (Minus Thawne, who figured that out). In this scan Flash calls it "guess work at best." In this scan he says "The cosmic treadmill. It allowed me to calibrate the exact era we could run to. Without the treadmill, we wouldn't have any control over where we landed."

they might just be underconfident in their ability to time travel to the right time since I don’t think there’s a single time where anyone in dc actually time traveled to the wrong time whereas there are numerous times when they have time traveled to the time they wanted to time travel to

 

[FroYoSans]

Thqg

That's not how it works in that comic by the context, it was interpreted more like a time travel machine by that writer.
So, that's how it works in that context, so no, it is not a speed feat

That writer is wrong then lmao no random joe-schmo can hop on the thing and start to time travel lmao you have to entirely power the thing with your own speed. It just makes pinpointing things easier

 

[FroYoSans]

they might just be underconfident in their ability to time travel to the right time since I don’t think there’s a single time where anyone in dc actually time traveled to the wrong time whereas there are numerous times when they have time traveled to the time they wanted to time travel to

Now that you mention it you're totally right, I mean damn any instance I can think of they've never actually time travelled to the wrong time. Hell in the New 52 characters like Daniel West and Future Flash time travelled Effortlessly to the eras they wanted

 

[FroYoSans]

This link states the speed of the user to generate radiation or negative pulses, which are is released by the machine sending the user into the future or past.

Which are explictly generated by them running at Super Speed lmao, one needs to use their own speeds to power the machine. Also once again it's not what let's them time travel, if you read the comic that comes from you'd know Kid Flash travelled all the way back to 100,842,246 BC lmao and Flash to the year 2287, seems more like an emphasis on accuracy. Plus the Silver Age had plenty of time travel feats without the Cosmic Treadmill.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Which are explictly generated by them running at Super Speed lmao, one needs to use their own speeds to power the machine. Also once again it's not what let's them time travel, if you read the comic that comes from you'd know Kid Flash travelled all the way back to 100,842,246 BC lmao and Flash to the year 2287, seems more like an emphasis on accuracy. Plus the Silver Age had plenty of time travel feats without the Cosmic Treadmill.

I'm pretty sure Barry is saying that 1 option is to use raw speed to run through time, which is imprecise, and another option is to power a treadmill that is easier to control where you go.

 

[GeneralSol16]

That writer is wrong then lmao no random joe-schmo can hop on the thing and start to time travel lmao you have to entirely power the thing with your own speed. It just makes pinpointing things easier

Wow, I don't care.
Your scan is wrong, in the context of that moment doesn't work like that, that's it, nothing more to say.

 

[Eficiente]

I get where you're coming from but please don't use that tone. I mean in part for your/our own good; The more a debate extends unnecessarily, the worse. Let's say we debate someone unwise and they feel disrespected, they may double down on their takes and extend the debate rather than take it with humility and maybe see how they're wrong. We never know when we debate someone unwise, so, we can afford to always keep it respectful just in case.

 

[Ozcantabak]

Isn't Superman escaping hyptertime also a immeasurable feat, i'm pretty sure this was talked in one of the cosmology threads.

 

[GeneralSol16]

Isn't Superman escaping hyptertime also a immeasurable feat, i'm pretty sure this was talked in one of the cosmology threads.

An off panel feat from a comic of d doubtful canonicity

 

[FroYoSans]

Wow, I don't care.
Your scan is wrong, in the context of that moment doesn't work like that, that's it, nothing more to say.

There is because it absolutely isn't a time machine, if you believe any version of the Treadmill just takes you through time you'd be wrong, you always have to power it with your own speed. It doesn't just take you through time

 

[GeneralSol16]

There is because it absolutely isn't a time machine, if you believe any version of the Treadmill just takes you through time you'd be wrong, you always have to power it with your own speed. It doesn't just take you through time

It doesn't matter what I or you believed it's about how it's portrayed in the comic, and in THIS SPECIFIC issue, it is portrayed as a time machine, meaning that your interpretation is wrong under said circumstances.

 

[Rgerdeena]

It doesn't matter what I or you believed it's about how it's portrayed in the comic, and in THIS SPECIFIC issue, it is portrayed as a time machine, meaning that your interpretation is wrong under said circumstances.

In that specific issue Superman said let’s see if I can do the same which greatly implies that the treadmill doesn’t automatically send you to the past which means it most likely worked in that issue in the same way it worked in other issues especially since there is nothing in that issue that contradicts how the treadmill works in other issues

 

[Rgerdeena]

An off panel feat from a comic of d doubtful canonicity

What comic is it from, I’d like to assess the canonicity of it

 

[Ozcantabak]

What comic is it from, I’d like to assess the canonicity of it

Action comics #1000.

 

[GeneralSol16]

What comic is it from, I’d like to assess the canonicity of it

Action Comics #1000.

 

[GeneralSol16]

In that specific issue Superman said let’s see if I can do the same which greatly implies that the treadmill doesn’t automatically send you to the past which means it most likely worked in that issue in the same way it worked in other issues especially since there is nothing in that issue that contradicts how the treadmill works in other issues

And In that same shit is considered a time machine
And even then, by how many anti feats he has, he CANNOT be Imme Speed.
I don't get what's the freaking need with wanking everything lmao.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

And In that same shit is considered a time machine
And even then, by how many anti feats he has, he CANNOT be Imme Speed.
I don't get what's the freaking need with wanking everything lmao.

While I agree with what you're saying, I do not think that attitude is necessary.

 

[Hayato5652]

Just ignore the treadmill.....

Superman has been able to travel through time using his own speed even without it, The only difference between him and speedsters is that he can’t pinpoint the exact destination, meaning he can’t precisely choose whether to go to the future or the past

 

[Rgerdeena]

And even then, by how many anti feats he has, he CANNOT be Imme Speed.
I don't get what's the freaking need with wanking everything lmao.

He holds back the majority of the time, his power has an in universe reason for varying, he avoids time traveling from raw speed, overall there are plenty of ways to explain the anti feats

 

[Vasco]

I don't deny it uses/is powered by the user's own speed. It's not the first time nuance like this has been ignored.

But let's talk about those scans:

• This link states the speed of the user to generate radiation or negative pulses, which are is released by the machine sending the user into the future or past. In other words, that radiation or negative pulses cause the time travel. This scan says something similar, that the user needs to supply the machine with the raw energy it needs.
• Most of the scans imply something similar about how the user can't know where they're going if they Time Travel by themselves (Minus Thawne, who figured that out). In this scan Flash calls it "guess work at best." In this scan he says "The cosmic treadmill. It allowed me to calibrate the exact era we could run to. Without the treadmill, we wouldn't have any control over where we landed."

This goes back to what I said about Superman, and how he most definitely meant to say the same thing.

You basically just proved me right, treadmill only let's him go where he exactly wants to go in time, it doesn't amp his speed to let him go through time, don't just try to go against everything, some things are not hard or complicated at all to understand.

 

[FroYoSans]

It doesn't matter what I or you believed it's about how it's portrayed in the comic, and in THIS SPECIFIC issue, it is portrayed as a time machine, meaning that your interpretation is wrong under said circumstances.

That's not a belief though that's just how it works, that's the entire reason Hunter Zolomon is Zoom now, because he tried using the treadmill as a regular degular person and it blew up in his face...because the thing is a navigation device not something you can just press a button on and begin to time travel. You have to use your own speed. But I'm done arguing about a treadmill which is always portrayed as a navigation device and not a time machine

 

[GeneralSol16]

That's not a belief though that's just how it works, that's the entire reason Hunter Zolomon is Zoom now, because he tried using the treadmill as a regular degular person and it blew up in his face...because the thing is a navigation device not something you can just press a button on and begin to time travel. You have to use your own speed. But I'm done arguing about a treadmill which is always portrayed as a navigation device and not a time machine

Can you please stop using other authors when we're discussing how it was portrayed in this comic? I don't care, and neither should you, how works 99% of the time, just how it does in this specific comic, since that's where this "feat" comes from.

 

[GeneralSol16]

He holds back the majority of the time, his power has an in universe reason for varying, he avoids time traveling from raw speed, overall there are plenty of ways to explain the anti feats

Superman's not Thor lmao, he holds back, sure, against enemies.
He has anti feats of being UNABLE to do *****, not just lowering himself.

• Textually stated to be unable to go FTL without Flash's speed boost.
• Unable to catch Barry and Wally, even though they were going "slow enough" to still be perceived by slow motion cams and take real time to go across the world.
• ******* calling throwing 4K punches in a second as something so fast that he needed to learn it from Flash.
• Even though being amped to an unimaginable degree, he was still under the "laws" of speed and light, although taking some time, could still keep up with him.

We add this to the fact that he did this by running, where he's at his lowest, and we've a precious inconsistency that isn't a feat at all either.