BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[Saqphire]

jokes on you glox did that already

would be hilarious trying to get someone to evaluate that tho lmao

Imagine someone counted allat just for that shi to be rejected like Kachon's calc of Saitama moving around Io

 

[PizzaDante67]

Having a potential 3-C Gremmy feat is cool and all but there are more important things to talk about….

Like Bleach apparently having a collab with Fortnite

 

[Apotheosis69]

Is it rly that hype?

 

[Infinite9Luck]

.

Most of what you wrote can be summarized as the “duck test,” which, in my opinion, doesn’t really apply here. For such a high rating, you need more than “it can looks like that.”

Also, yes: the second scan you posted from the other author is clearly, blatantly a galaxy, no issue there. However, you’re assuming the one Kubo drew even remotely looks like that when it doesn’t. The one in Gremmy’s feat isn’t as detailed and could still qualify as a star cluster. As I said, it can reasonably be interpreted as either. Both explanations are reasonable, and given that the anime completely removed it, that shifts the balance toward it being a star cluster, though I’m fine with “possibly” as well. But against it being a full rating.

 

[Saqphire]

Most of what you wrote can be summarized as the “duck test,” which, in my opinion, doesn’t really apply here. For such a high rating, you need more than “it can looks like that.”

Iirc that higher standard of evidence only rlly applies to Tier 2 and above although I could be mistaken

Also, yes: the second scan you posted from the other author is clearly, blatantly a galaxy, no issue there. However, you’re assuming the one Kubo drew even remotely looks like that when it doesn’t. The one in Gremmy’s feat isn’t as detailed and could still qualify as a star cluster. As I said, it can reasonably be interpreted as either. Both explanations are reasonable, and given that the anime completely removed it, that shifts the balance toward it being a star cluster, though I’m fine with “possibly” as well. But against it being a full rating.

Guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree here then. Atleast you agree it's a reasonable interpretation enough to warrant a "possibly" rating, I'm fine with that.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Most of what you wrote can be summarized as the “duck test,” which, in my opinion, doesn’t really apply here. For such a high rating, you need more than “it can looks like that.”

Also, yes: the second scan you posted from the other author is clearly, blatantly a galaxy, no issue there. However, you’re assuming the one Kubo drew even remotely looks like that when it doesn’t. The one in Gremmy’s feat isn’t as detailed and could still qualify as a star cluster. As I said, it can reasonably be interpreted as either. Both explanations are reasonable, and given that the anime completely removed it, that shifts the balance toward it being a star cluster, though I’m fine with “possibly” as well. But against it being a full rating.

This the funniest response I’ve seen from you, don’t be selective when applying scrutiny remove galaxy room scaling entirely by that logic since he’s not stated to create a dimension, you can manifest or make an entrance to outerspace via portals

And the idea that big things must always require being spelled out or else they’re inapplicable is not true either, we had the reiokyu seretei distance be 0.9 AU solely because the sun “looked” funny

 

[SilentBob34]

This the funniest response I’ve seen from you, don’t be selective when applying scrutiny remove galaxy room scaling entirely by that logic since he’s not stated to create a dimension, you can manifest or make an entrance to outerspace via portals

And the idea that big things must always require being spelled out or else they’re inapplicable is not true either, we had the reiokyu seretei distance be 0.9 AU solely because the sun “looked” funny

I’m all for Gremmy not being able to Create a dimension and instead opens a portal to outer space. 100% contradicts him needing 2 clones just to create a meteor, yet only 4 more clones has him create a galaxy.

 

[Infinite9Luck]

This the funniest response I’ve seen from you, don’t be selective when applying scrutiny remove galaxy room scaling entirely by that logic since he’s not stated to create a dimension, you can manifest or make an entrance to outerspace via portals

And the idea that big things must always require being spelled out or else they’re inapplicable is not true either, we had the reiokyu seretei distance be 0.9 AU solely because the sun “looked” funny

Except that's not the case, so you are just using a false equivalence here, the japanese explicitly say he created an outer space, so he didn't manifest or create any portal.

Gremmy creating a portal is pure headcanon from fans, and never even stated once.

 

[Adam1396]

Gremmy creating a portal is pure headcanon from fans, and never even stated once.

Clearly headcanon but not from "fans"

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I’m all for Gremmy not being able to Create a dimension and instead opens a portal to outer space. 100% contradicts him needing 2 clones just to create a meteor, yet only 4 more clones has him create a galaxy.

There’s a buncha ways to discredit that but I don’t care if people wanna enjoy their tier 3/4 ratings or have any desire to get in the way of it, it’s the selective standards that make me cringe

Except that's not the case, so you are just using a false equivalence here, the japanese explicitly say he created an outer space, so he didn't manifest or create any portal.

sigh You're really gonna rope me into a full on debate huh

It does say manifest in some pages and creation and manifestation can work synonymously with each other, create isn’t some ultimate end all be all buzzword here for you to assume, you are producing outer space by bringing it here into the Seretei via the portal, so that statement doesn't necessitate the isolated reading like you're interpreting it into being

"He could convert what he imagined into reality, and his abilities were like a god's. In his fatal battle with Kenpachi Zaraki, he had even materialized a gigantic meteorite and outer space itself in the Seireitei."

Gremmy creating a portal is pure headcanon from fans, and never even stated once.

if you wanna go super duper literal let’s give him scaling for making the empty space and not the galaxies or stars since he wasn’t stated to make a dimension just outer space, if you wanna ignore context and focus on statements like that then it goes both ways

You're right it's never stated, it's outright shown instead

Idk why you're so overly hellbent on the idea that they're not portals because to even scale them here you need to subscribe to the idea that they are portals in some capacity or the other or else the feat becomes room level

A few ways of interpreting it is

1) He made the thing with no portals of any type
2) He made a portal connecting it to outer space
3) He made a pocket dimension and connected it to the Seretei via a portal

The third interpretation does not work if you believe the energy from the imagination itself scales, he does not need to make stars to choke Zaraki, so it logically does not make sense to do that when it takes several orders of magnitude more energy than interp #2 which achieves his goal AND is consistent with 2 clones allowing meteor creation and as I've explained both of these count as creating outer space (the first does that too tbf)

The second is well ya know

The first interpretation means it's a room sized sub-section with a background resembling outer space devoid of air that's closed off, this interp would be consistent with his meteor level power but also with the statement that he made it within the seretei which is at most a large country sized construct, it would also be consistent with how Zaraki was able to break apart the spatial barrier and appear right back beside Gremmy, if he were BFR'd to some random location in space or a pocket dimension (interp #2 & #3 respectively) he'd at the bare minimum have to traverse galactic/starry distances to re enter the planet let alone the Seretei, but with the room sized spatial domain interpretation it makes much more sense that you could flex your power and break out of it.

Given how none of his other imaginations come remotely close to the sheer range of a 4-A dimension with all of them being more or les consistently around the tier 6 ranges the first and second interps are way more consistent with his other showings

 

[SilentBob34]

There’s a buncha ways to discredit that but I don’t care if people wanna enjoy their tier 3/4 ratings or have any desire to get in the way of it, it’s the selective standards that make me cringe


sigh You're really gonna rope me into a full on debate huh

It does say manifest in some pages and creation and manifestation can work synonymously with each other, create isn’t some ultimate end all be all buzzword here for you to assume, you are producing outer space by bringing it here into the Seretei via the portal, so that statement doesn't necessitate the isolated reading like you're interpreting it into being




if you wanna go super duper literal let’s give him scaling for making the empty space and not the galaxies or stars since he wasn’t stated to make a dimension just outer space, if you wanna ignore context and focus on statements like that then it goes both ways

You're right it's never stated, it's outright shown instead

Idk why you're so overly hellbent on the idea that they're not portals because to even scale them here you need to subscribe to the idea that they are portals in some capacity or the other or else the feat becomes room level

A few ways of interpreting it is

1) He made the thing with no portals of any type
2) He made a portal connecting it to outer space
3) He made a pocket dimension and connected it to the Seretei via a portal

The third interpretation does not work if you believe the energy from the imagination itself scales, he does not need to make stars to choke Zaraki, so it logically does not make sense to do that when it takes several orders of magnitude more energy than interp #2 which achieves his goal AND is consistent with 2 clones allowing meteor creation and as I've explained both of these count as creating outer space (the first does that too tbf)

The second is well ya know

The first interpretation means it's a room sized sub-section with a background resembling outer space devoid of air that's closed off, this interp would be consistent with his meteor level power but also with the statement that he made it within the seretei which is at most a large country sized construct, it would also be consistent with how Zaraki was able to break apart the spatial barrier and appear right back beside Gremmy, if he were BFR'd to some random location in space or a pocket dimension (interp #2 & #3 respectively) he'd at the bare minimum have to traverse galactic/starry distances to re enter the planet let alone the Seretei, but with the room sized spatial domain interpretation it makes much more sense that you could flex your power and break out of it.

Given how none of his other imaginations come remotely close to the sheer range of a 4-A dimension with all of them being more or les consistently around the tier 6 ranges the first and second interps are way more consistent with his other showings

Never seen someone so desperate to defend Gremmy’s feats

 

[DragoZeroNova]

This has nothing to do with any conversation here, but just checking in to say that the Blut CRT will probably have to be split in two and my original plans to get it out in December has been revised to part one being out in December.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Ight let’s chill lol, I’d rather not mock someone for wanting to defend their own arguments, I just wish the energy was consistent across the board as sometimes it can feel as though people are bending the rules to benefit their agenda, I don’t think that’s the case with Infinite Luck but it tends to come off that way sometimes

 

[Apotheosis69]

This has nothing to do with any conversation here, but just checking in to say that the Blut CRT will probably have to be split in two and my original plans to get it out in December has been revised to part one being out in December.

Oh also DragonZero, I have been thinking that we can DM about some changes in the scaling chain, primarily for Tier 6.

Problem is... I am headin out on vacation tomorrow for Hannukah. So It might take a minute for me to respond, but hope you don't mind.

 

[DragoZeroNova]

Oh also DragonZero, I have been thinking that we can DM about some changes in the scaling chain, primarily for Tier 6.

Problem is... I am headin out on vacation tomorrow for Hannukah. So It might take a minute for me to respond, but hope you don't mind.

Whenever you want

 

[ichimojii]

How do you guy's interpret kubo saying yhwach was beyond Gremmy's imagination.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

sometimes it can feel as though people are bending the rules to benefit their agenda

VsWiki 101

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

How do you guy's interpret kubo saying yhwach was beyond Gremmy's imagination.

It was interpreted as Base Yhwach > Gremmy. Since Base Yhwach was already stronger than Eye Patch Shikai Zaraki, even without this statement, Base Yhwach's AP would still have been 4-A thanks to Gremmy's feat. Gremmy's upgrade also happened before Kubo mentioned it in his Q&A.

 

[Infinite9Luck]

It does say manifest in some pages and creation and manifestation can work synonymously with each other, create isn’t some ultimate end all be all buzzword here for you to assume, you are producing outer space by bringing it here into the Seretei via the portal, so that statement doesn't necessitate the isolated reading like you're interpreting it into being

The Japanese straight-up says “create,” and “create” means creating outer space, simple as that. If you’re interpreting it as creating a portal to space, that’s a completely baseless assumption. That’s on you. No one is really going to interpret it in that convoluted way when the author could have said multiple times that he created a portal to space instead of directly saying “created a space.”

if you wanna go super duper literal let’s give him scaling for making the empty space and not the galaxies or stars since he wasn’t stated to make a dimension just outer space, if you wanna ignore context and focus on statements like that then it goes both ways

Giving him rating form an empty space doesn't make sense either.. .since you literally see them in the background, so you either say he created everything or he doesn't any of it (I wonder who created it then? Ichigo?). You can't just selectively pick what you want.

You're right it's never stated, it's outright shown instead

Idk why you're so overly hellbent on the idea that they're not portals because to even scale them here you need to subscribe to the idea that they are portals in some capacity or the other or else the feat becomes room level

A few ways of interpreting it is

1) He made the thing with no portals of any type
2) He made a portal connecting it to outer space
3) He made a pocket dimension and connected it to the Seretei via a portal

The third interpretation does not work if you believe the energy from the imagination itself scales, he does not need to make stars to choke Zaraki, so it logically does not make sense to do that when it takes several orders of magnitude more energy than interp #2 which achieves his goal AND is consistent with 2 clones allowing meteor creation and as I've explained both of these count as creating outer space (the first does that too tbf)

The second is well ya know

The first interpretation means it's a room sized sub-section with a background resembling outer space devoid of air that's closed off, this interp would be consistent with his meteor level power but also with the statement that he made it within the seretei which is at most a large country sized construct, it would also be consistent with how Zaraki was able to break apart the spatial barrier and appear right back beside Gremmy, if he were BFR'd to some random location in space or a pocket dimension (interp #2 & #3 respectively) he'd at the bare minimum have to traverse galactic/starry distances to re enter the planet let alone the Seretei, but with the room sized spatial domain interpretation it makes much more sense that you could flex your power and break out of it.

Given how none of his other imaginations come remotely close to the sheer range of a 4-A dimension with all of them being more or les consistently around the tier 6 ranges the first and second interps are way more consistent with his other showings

You know that Gremmy can spiritually enhance things, right? So the meteor doesn’t have to be that weak, especially since the guns he created weren’t. That basically defeats half of your arguments. Also, his imagination is usually more wall-to-building level most of the time (The DC). I’m not even sure where you’re getting the “more consistent in Tier 6” claim from.
Additionally, as Menos in Bleach don't have to travel millions of KM to reach the WOLT, Zaraki, simply cut a dimension-wall to reach back, as everyone in Bleach does... His reiatsu is explicitly stated to cut space-time as well in SAFWY.

Also, Zaraki scale above Renji, who scales to Squad Zero, who has a casual 4-A feat, and who scales to Senna, who pushed two dimensions. So yeah, sub-god tiers being more consistent at cosmic scale fits, and that would apply to Gremmy as well. And it matches the cosmic feat of creating a space. I still wonder why the author keeps specifically saying he “created space” in Japanese, why didn’t he just say he created a portal?

Also, no: Gremmy could’ve created something different if he wanted to choke him, but “outer space” as we know it, and as he would know it, requires gas, antimatter, and stars to work the way it does.

There are actually much much more arguments and translation in support.

 

[Ralp0054]

I can't wait for the Vizards' battle against Gerard. Do you have any expectations?

 

[Apotheosis69]

I can't wait for the Vizards' battle against Gerard. Do you have any expectations?

No

 

[Ralp0054]

No

I expect at least a 5-minute fight; Kubo seems to enjoy adding new fights.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

I can't wait for the Vizards' battle against Gerard. Do you have any expectations?

I expect them to lose in the end, but I hope they put up a good fight before hand (I want the 4-A Shinji agenda to be real).

 

[ichimojii]

I’m all for Gremmy not being able to Create a dimension and instead opens a portal to outer space. 100% contradicts him needing 2 clones just to create a meteor, yet only 4 more clones has him create a galaxy.

This the funniest response I’ve seen from you, don’t be selective when applying scrutiny remove galaxy room scaling entirely by that logic since he’s not stated to create a dimension, you can manifest or make an entrance to outerspace via portals

And the idea that big things must always require being spelled out or else they’re inapplicable is not true either, we had the reiokyu seretei distance be 0.9 AU solely because the sun “looked” funny

Gremmy actually didn't need 8 clones to create outer space I think it just makes it easier for him to imagine things. It took 1 gremmy to make 8,it also took 1 gremmy to copy kenpachi's power level which is beyond that meteor. It makes less sense that he created a portal considering all qunicy can make portals to anywhere in the universe. Weaker characters then gremmy have also made dimensions. They just don't scale to them imo

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

The Japanese straight-up says “create,” and “create” means creating outer space, simple as that. If you’re interpreting it as creating a portal to space, that’s a completely baseless assumption. That’s on you. No one is really going to interpret it in that convoluted way when the author could have said multiple times that he created a portal to space instead of directly saying “created a space.”

I’ve hurled raws at you explicitly containing the word for materialization & I’ve explained how it has a broader interps than what you’re forcing it out to be, you’ve tackled none of that and parroted the same old response as yesterdays

This is pure cope

Giving him rating form an empty space doesn't make sense either.. .since you literally see them in the background, so you either say he created everything or he doesn't any of it (I wonder who created it then? Ichigo?). You can't just selectively pick what you want.

No no no don’t apply logical inferences here, it’s not stated he made stars, if you need a statement for a galaxy to be Galaxy and visuals aren’t enough the creation of stars doesn’t apply here either, you completely omitted the concept of applying context and hard appealed the **** out of written descriptions to invalidate all else, it’s only fair you observe it all the way instead of just the part where it benefits you, he wasn’t stated to make a dimension, he was stated to make space only

You know that Gremmy can spiritually enhance things, right? So the meteor doesn’t have to be that weak. That basically defeats half of your arguments.

This is….not what happens, Gremmy makes things that are true to their nature, if he doesn’t materialise the true aspects of an object making the meteor not have natural properties then the stars dont have to be their natural counterparts either breaking the entire scale

He makes a meteor because meteors are powerful and can wipe out most shinigamis, everyone knew they were doomed the moment it showed up, if his method of fighting did not involve using the associated element to his advantage why not transfer these attacks directly? make a big reishi attack instead of hurling a meteor, a reishi arrow can be of equivalent size or even condensed to his liking to amplify ap, it destroys the whole god damn point of bringing it in the first place

Also let's apply your other worldly overly strict standards here, while I personally don't unironically believe this, should we subscribe to that logic, it's stated he made a meteor, not an amped meteor, not a meteor that scales to his AP so we can dismiss such an assertion as headcanon

since the guns he created weren’t.

LOL based on what? Make the guns true to their IRL counterparts too then idc lmfao

Also, his imagination is usually more wall-to-building level most of the time (The DC). I’m not even sure where you’re getting the “more consistent in Tier 6” claim from.

I suppose it is not the best phrasing on my part, I'd say a better of describing it is, all his feats stay within the boundary of tier 6 and the fact that you point out he has building level, wall level and street feats as well add further credence to my point, if he's so much into the earthly tiers why on earth would I ever consider such a ridiculous jump

Additionally, as Menos in Bleach don't have to travel millions of KM to reach the WOLT, Zaraki, simply cut a dimension-wall to reach back, as everyone in Bleach does... His reiatsu is explicitly stated to cut space-time as well in SAFWY.

They're likely a different plane rather than physically distant, can you prove the same applies for his?

Also, Zaraki scale above Renji, who scales to Squad Zero, who has a casual 4-A feat

Squad zero's feat is blatantly not 4-A, it got changed to 4-B, I'd argue even that has issues due to how it violates principles of energy dispersion but even with that their greatest on screen showing becomes orders of magnitude inferior to gremmys nerfed dimension creation, it'll be an uglier outlier if we used the 3-B interps

I still wonder why the author keeps specifically saying he “created space” in Japanese, why didn’t he just say he created a portal?

You keep repeating the same line as if I don't talk about how they can have broader meanings than what you are alluding to, clutters up your own arguments

A few ways of interpreting it is

1) He made the thing with no portals of any type
2) He made a portal connecting it to outer space
3) He made a pocket dimension and connected it to the Seretei via a portal

The third interpretation does not work if you believe the energy from the imagination itself scales, he does not need to make stars to choke Zaraki, so it logically does not make sense to do that when it takes several orders of magnitude more energy than interp #2 which achieves his goal AND is consistent with 2 clones allowing meteor creation and as I've explained both of these count as creating outer space (the first does that too tbf)

Also, no: Gremmy could’ve created something different if he wanted to choke him, but “outer space” as we know it, and as he would know it, requires gas, antimatter, and stars to work the way it does.

I am assuming this bit is in response to this? nothing else remotely countered that argument so I'll assume this you trying to refute that, turning on auto translate captions in this video let's us find out what exactly were the reasons gremmy described for why someone would die are

• Ebullism (Blood Boiling in a vacuum due to lack of atmospheric pressure)
• Effect of Unconsciousness due to lack of oxygen
• Your tissues are held in shape by atmospheric pressure pushing inward. The internal blood pressure and tissue pressure are balanced against it the lack of AP results in tissues getting torn

All of these are possible within a vacuum and don't neccessarily need space itself

A few ways of interpreting it is

1) He made the thing with no portals of any type
2) He made a portal connecting it to outer space
3) He made a pocket dimension and connected it to the Seretei via a portal

The third interpretation does not work if you believe the energy from the imagination itself scales, he does not need to make stars to choke Zaraki, so it logically does not make sense to do that when it takes several orders of magnitude more energy than interp #2 which achieves his goal AND is consistent with 2 clones allowing meteor creation and as I've explained both of these count as creating outer space (the first does that too tbf)

I still believe this argument has not been countered yet even if you subscribe to the idea that space is somehow needed (when it is not) you can still get all that via interp #2 which would cost less energy.....assuming they all require scaleable energy

 

[Saqphire]

No no no don’t apply logical inferences here, it’s not stated he made stars, if you need a statement for a galaxy to be Galaxy and visuals aren’t enough the creation of stars doesn’t apply here either, you completely omitted the concept of applying context and hard appealed the **** out of written descriptions to invalidate all else, it’s only fair you observe it all the way instead of just the part where it benefits you, he wasn’t stated to make a dimension, he was stated to make space only

W defense tho

 

[Specterxxxx]

I’ve hurled raws at you explicitly containing the word for materialization & I’ve explained how it has a broader interps than what you’re forcing it out to be, you’ve tackled none of that and parroted the same old response as yesterdays

This is pure cope

No no no don’t apply logical inferences here, it’s not stated he made stars, if you need a statement for a galaxy to be Galaxy and visuals aren’t enough the creation of stars doesn’t apply here either, you completely omitted the concept of applying context and hard appealed the **** out of written descriptions to invalidate all else, it’s only fair you observe it all the way instead of just the part where it benefits you, he wasn’t stated to make a dimension, he was stated to make space only

This is….not what happens, Gremmy makes things that are true to their nature, if he doesn’t materialise the true aspects of an object making the meteor not have natural properties then the stars dont have to be their natural counterparts either breaking the entire scale

He makes a meteor because meteors are powerful and can wipe out most shinigamis, everyone knew they were doomed the moment it showed up, if his method of fighting did not involve using the associated element to his advantage why not transfer these attacks directly? make a big reishi attack instead of hurling a meteor, a reishi arrow can be of equivalent size or even condensed to his liking to amplify ap, it destroys the whole god damn point of bringing it in the first place

Also let's apply your other worldly overly strict standards here, while I personally don't unironically believe this, should we subscribe to that logic, it's stated he made a meteor, not an amped meteor, not a meteor that scales to his AP so we can dismiss such an assertion as headcanon

LOL based on what? Make the guns true to their IRL counterparts too then idc lmfao

I suppose it is not the best phrasing on my part, I'd say a better of describing it is, all his feats stay within the boundary of tier 6 and the fact that you point out he has building level, wall level and street feats as well add further credence to my point, if he's so much into the earthly tiers why on earth would I ever consider such a ridiculous jump

They're likely a different plane rather than physically distant, can you prove the same applies for his?


Squad zero's feat is blatantly not 4-A, it got changed to 4-B, I'd argue even that has issues due to how it violates principles of energy dispersion but even with that their greatest on screen showing becomes orders of magnitude inferior to gremmys nerfed dimension creation, it'll be an uglier outlier if we used the 3-B interps

You keep repeating the same line as if I don't talk about how they can have broader meanings than what you are alluding to, clutters up your own arguments



I am assuming this bit is in response to this? nothing else remotely countered that argument so I'll assume this you trying to refute that, turning on auto translate captions in this video let's us find out what exactly were the reasons gremmy described for why someone would die are

• Ebullism (Blood Boiling in a vacuum due to lack of atmospheric pressure)
• Effect of Unconsciousness due to lack of oxygen
• Your tissues are held in shape by atmospheric pressure pushing inward. The internal blood pressure and tissue pressure are balanced against it the lack of AP results in tissues getting torn

All of these are possible within a vacuum and don't neccessarily need space itself


I still believe this argument has not been countered yet even if you subscribe to the idea that space is somehow needed (when it is not) you can still get all that via interp #2 which would cost less energy.....assuming they all require scaleable energy

If you are against it just create a CRT no need for this pointless banter here imo.


Also are we implying the stars aren't real because they had nothing to do with Kenpachi? because this is not an argument and goes against the mechanics of Gremmy’s powers who has never imagined a fake. The Guns and meteor were all comparable to actual ones even when the nukes were split in half we see the inner section of the nukes to be similar to real nukes components as well. So if that was real, then that would logically extend to the outerspace feat that is consistently seen as the biggest feat when used to hype up gremmy.

 

[Specterxxxx]

Also with regards to the calcs, I have been soo busy with life I haven't had the time. I will work on it this week Saturday when I have the time.

I also have mid tier upgrade CRT too but that will come later.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

 

[Saqphire]

If you are against it just create a CRT no need for this pointless banter here imo.


Also are we implying the stars aren't real because they had nothing to do with Kenpachi? because this is not an argument and goes against the mechanics of Gremmy’s powers who has never imagined a fake. The Guns and meteor were all comparable to actual ones even when the nukes were split in half we see the inner section of the nukes to be similar to real nukes components as well. So if that was real, then that would logically extend to the outerspace feat that is consistently seen as the biggest feat when used to hype up gremmy.

The whole point of him arguing this is because he's calling out Luck for being inconsistent with his logical inference

 

[Specterxxxx]

The whole point of him arguing this is because he's calling out Luck for being inconsistent with his logical inference

This argument he is making is against the validity of the feat itself which goes far beyond luck's own opinions.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

W defense tho

thansk

If you are against it just create a CRT no need for this pointless banter here imo.

I have no interest in making downgrade threads I just didn’t like how Infinite Luck wouldn’t go all the way in scaling Gremmy and applied standards he won’t use for his pro arguments to deny Tier 3 scaling then the debate devolved allat as you’ve seen, if people do not like seeing discourse regarding this in the general thread I shall end our debate here so as to not clutter up

 

[SacredDao]

Man it's kinda obvious he created his own dimension containing outerspace and all that it and it would have like pseudo portal (factured space) to throw kenpachi in it.

 

[Crobatman44]

Also with regards to the calcs, I have been soo busy with life I haven't had the time. I will work on it this week Saturday when I have the time.

I also have mid tier upgrade CRT too but that will come later.

Out of curiosity,who do you consider the Mid Tiers since Right now the verse page actually has no set of characters categorized that way.

 

[Ralp0054]

So, what is the simple argument for gin not being at the 4A-3C level? I'd like to know.

 

[Apotheosis69]

So, what is the simple argument for gin not being at the 4A-3C level? I'd like to know.

... Because Aizen deliberately lowered his Reiatsu/Reiryoku dramatically so that Ichigo's friends can sense his overwhelming power.

 

[Infinite9Luck]

I’ve hurled raws at you explicitly containing the word for materialization & I’ve explained how it has a broader interps than what you’re forcing it out to be, you’ve tackled none of that and parroted the same old response as yesterdays

What you posted says 具現化, which means materialization. I honestly don’t understand how you extrapolate this into a “portal” interpretation being more fitting. I’m telling you out that materializing outer space still means creating it.

As a matter of fact, pages later the Japanese text strictly and directly states: 宇宙空間すら即座に創造しうる性能な, which translates as:

“(a capability) that can instantly create even outer space.”

創造しうる means “capable of creating.”

That leaves no room for any blatant downplay or for forcing a portal interpretation.

Honestly the debate shouldn't even go beyond this, because at this point I'm just debating your incredulity.

This is pure cope

No no no don’t apply logical inferences here, it’s not stated he made stars, if you need a statement for a galaxy to be Galaxy and visuals aren’t enough the creation of stars doesn’t apply here either, you completely omitted the concept of applying context and hard appealed the **** out of written descriptions to invalidate all else, it’s only fair you observe it all the way instead of just the part where it benefits you, he wasn’t stated to make a dimension, he was stated to make space only

That’s not even what I argued, you know that, right? I never said I needed a statement saying it’s a galaxy. What I said is that what Kubo drew doesn’t look like a galaxy to me and looks more like a star cluster. Not to mention the whole part where I say if you take the manga alone the galaxy interpretation can make sense, simply the anime debunks it.

You’re trying really hard to frame this as if I’m using “double standards,” when I never did.

Honestly, it’s getting tiring having to respond to arguments I never made, but let’s keep going.

This is….not what happens, Gremmy makes things that are true to their nature, if he doesn’t materialise the true aspects of an object making the meteor not have natural properties then the stars don't have to be their natural counterparts either breaking the entire scale

He makes a meteor because meteors are powerful and can wipe out most shinigamis, everyone knew they were doomed the moment it showed up, if his method of fighting did not involve using the associated element to his advantage why not transfer these attacks directly? make a big reishi attack instead of hurling a meteor, a reishi arrow can be of equivalent size or even condensed to his liking to amplify ap, it destroys the whole god damn point of bringing it in the first place

Because that’s not even how Gremmy fights. It’s pretty obvious to anyone that he likes to create random things to harm people, like trapping Zaraki inside a bubble of water. In fact, he never even created an arrow to begin with.

That doesn’t mean the things he creates lose their natural properties. The meteor still retains the classic ablation effect of meteors, the gun he created has mechanical components and engine and create explosion when fired, and the space he created still behaved like space as well the water he created, guess what? It acted like water.

So yes, they keep those properties, and the fact that he can enhance them doesn’t change that. Moreover, the outer space doesn't have to be enhanced at all to kill.

I suppose it is not the best phrasing on my part, I'd say a better of describing it is, all his feats stay within the boundary of tier 6 and the fact that you point out he has building level, wall level and street feats as well add further credence to my point, if he's so much into the earthly tiers why on earth would I ever consider such a ridiculous jump

Actually, a bullet reach like 500 joules, to reach a Multi-Continent/Continent the difference is exponential and massive, you would need to jump like by 10^27 times for the joules value, water is even less than a bullet.

To jump from a Meteor to MSS is still like 10^28. So yeah, it's a faulty comparison using "earthly tiers". This even not counting all the plethora of arguments that can be made for enhancing, exponential growth and so on.

The meteor should be an outlier, how did Gremmy multiplied his own strength by 10^27 times to go from guns to a country wiping meteor? Clearly an outlier.

They're likely a different plane rather than physically distant, can you prove the same applies for his?

Garganta is a physical distance; people walk and run in it. Despite that, Menos and Zaraki himself in SAFWY were able to open a tear to space and break through a dimension. So why wouldn’t it be possible to replicate it?

Squad zero's feat is blatantly not 4-A, it got changed to 4-B, I'd argue even that has issues due to how it violates principles of energy dispersion but even with that their greatest on screen showing becomes orders of magnitude inferior to gremmys nerfed dimension creation, it'll be an uglier outlier if we used the 3-B interps

You keep repeating the same line as if I don't talk about how they can have broader meanings than what you are alluding to, clutters up your own arguments

True, I forgot the downgrade, 4B is still good and support me, regardless S0 now scale to Galaxy level anyway, so my argument doesn't change.

I am assuming this bit is in response to this? nothing else remotely countered that argument so I'll assume this you trying to refute that, turning on auto translate captions in this video let's us find out what exactly were the reasons gremmy described for why someone would die are

• Ebullism (Blood Boiling in a vacuum due to lack of atmospheric pressure)
• Effect of Unconsciousness due to lack of oxygen
• Your tissues are held in shape by atmospheric pressure pushing inward. The internal blood pressure and tissue pressure are balanced against it the lack of AP results in tissues getting torn

All of these are possible within a vacuum and don't neccessarily need space itself

This doesn’t counter what I’m saying. I know you can choke someone even without creating space, that’s pretty obvious. But that’s not what Gremmy did; he actually created it. In fact, choking someone is far less impressive than creating a meteor or even machine guns.

However, by Gremmy's own efforts, clones numbers, authors etc. this put the space creation above, a fire-ridden meteor capable of destroying a country. Why would they do that if the point was just to choke him? Simply put, the creation itself was the main point about his imagination being so great, that’s why it’s impressive. It’s not just about choking; it’s about the fact that he created outer space as we see it, as Kubo himself drew it, intentionally with a cosmic background, and as it is stated.
And that’s why it required more effort from Gremmy as well.

Honestly, there are way more arguments I could make, but I’ll stop here.

I still believe this argument has not been countered yet even if you subscribe to the idea that space is somehow needed (when it is not) you can still get all that via interp #2 which would cost less energy.....assuming they all require scaleable energy

Above, I’ve already explained why the "less energy" argument doesn’t make any sense. And honestly, it’s just your assumptions again. I’m sticking with what the actual source material says, he created outer space instantly.

 

[Specterxxxx]

Out of curiosity,who do you consider the Mid Tiers since Right now the verse page actually has no set of characters categorized that way.

Those after the gremmy feat tiering like shunsui, rukia, byakuya, high tier quincies that do not scale to gremmy. Basically anyone who scales above the strongest espadas.

 

[Crobatman44]

Basically those after the gremmy feat tiering like shunsui, rukia, byakuya, high tier quincies that do not scale to gremmy. Basically anyone who scales above the strongest espadas.

Thanks for the quick response and answer.

 

[Specterxxxx]

Thanks for the quick response and answer.

Still trying to get this feat accepted, I posted it on the Calc eval thread a long time ago but it hasn't been checked til now.

An upgrade CRT will begin one it is.