BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[YmTheSuper]

You can also determine how fast someone is moving by how hard the hit the ground using KE

That actually isn't allowed in the wiki.

Kinetic energy feats:

Do not calculate speed from kinetic energy: The kinetic energy an object was calculated to possess, in any way whatsoever, should not be considered as related through its speed. While the formula technically can be used to relate those values in both direction this is disregarded in practice. One reason for this is that fiction in general differentiates between the attack potency and the speed of a character. Another reason is that it returns unrealistic values, as even a Small City level+ punch would already have Relativistic+ speed. Out of similar reasons mass should also not be calculated from it.

 

[SilentBob34]

To be fair Kenny downscales from true bankai ichigo.

We just have to use that speed for a compromised scaling that would easily get accepted.

He doesn’t downscale, he scales directly to TB Ichigo from whats on the profiles you or whoever upgraded. TB scales to 368 yotafoe. Base Kenpachi scales to 368 yotafoe. All of this based on a statement from Hisagi saying the 3 people he thought could beat Hikone.

 

[SilentBob34]

To be fair Kenny downscales from true bankai ichigo.

We just have to use that speed for a compromised scaling that would easily get accepted.

He doesn’t downscale, he scales directly to TB Ichigo from what’s on the profiles. Unless you recently changed them so he does downscale

 

[ichimojii]

Okay. Theirs also ichibei and yhwach moving 1000s of KM in seconds

That actually isn't allowed in the wiki.

Kinetic energy feats:

 

[Specterxxxx]

He doesn’t downscale, he scales directly to TB Ichigo from whats on the profiles you or whoever upgraded. TB scales to 368 yotafoe. Base Kenpachi scales to 368 yotafoe. All of this based on a statement from Hisagi saying the 3 people he thought could beat Hikone.

They might scale to the same rating on wiki but they are not on the same level. Ichigo bankai is the strongest person to scale to that rating. Since he is overwhelmingly more powerful than his cero creciente that is 368 yottafoe

 

[Saqphire]

That actually isn't allowed in the wiki.

Also, I've always found an issue with applying KE to Bleach's feats because 90% of the verse are spiritual which implies they don't rlly have mass perse. I could be wrong however

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Also, I've always found an issue with applying KE to Bleach's feats because 90% of the verse are spiritual which implies they don't rlly have mass perse. I could be wrong however

???

 

[Apotheosis69]

If they do not have mass, then everything would just not work… as physics as we know would just not be possible. Plus, that's just going Wayyy to into it… when the series is not like HxH or JJK in its descriptions of things.

Plus… Reishi is literal "particles"

And most of all, there's Izuru's Zanpakuto: Wabisuke which literally doubles the weight it slashes, thus mass.

 

[ichimojii]

Also, I've always found an issue with applying KE to Bleach's feats because 90% of the verse are spiritual which implies they don't rlly have mass perse. I could be wrong however

Normal human souls have no mass. Soul with reiatsu have mass

 

[Saqphire]

If they do not have mass, then everything would just not work… as physics as we know would just not be possible. Plus, that's just going Wayyy to into it… when the series is not like HxH or JJK in its descriptions of things.

Plus… Reishi is literal "particles"

And most of all, there's Izuru's Zanpakuto: Wabisuke which literally doubles the weight it slashes, thus mass.

Normal human souls have no mass. Soul with reiatsu have mass

This makes sense. Are they just weighted spirits then?

 

[Naeblis495]

@Arc7Kuroi i miss you so much…please save this verse…my supreme king oh so glorious

Something happened to Arc ? I have not been following things.

 

[Apotheosis69]

Normal human souls have no mass. Soul with reiatsu have mass

Everything has Reiatsu/Reiryoku though... When Fullbringers prove that even inanimate things have souls in them

Something happened to Arc ? I have not been following things.

He's just busy with life.

 

[ichimojii]

Everything has Reiatsu/Reiryoku though... When Fullbringers prove that even inanimate things have souls in them

He's just busy with life.

Soul does not equal reiatsu. It says humans dont have spiritual power.

 

[Jo-Smooth]

Soul does not equal reiatsu. It says humans dont have spiritual power.

I’m either blind or this scan doesn’t say humans don’t have spiritual power anywhere

 

[Naeblis495]

I’m either blind or this scan doesn’t say humans don’t have spiritual power anywhere

I'm guessing he is extrapolating this from rukia saying that you don't get hungry in the SS unless you have spiritual power in the first paragraph. And most human souls in the rukongai don't have the need to eat meaning they don't have spiritual powers.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Should Gremmy's stuff go back to a full rating now that the god tiers scale well above the galaxy room feat

 

[Saqphire]

Should Gremmy's stuff go back to a full rating now that the god tiers scale well above the galaxy room feat

Tbh it should be re-calced, but yeah

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Tbh it should be re-calced, but yeah

hmmm if only we had a calc expert that happened to be knowledgeable in bleach

 

[PizzaDante67]

Tbh it should be re-calced, but yeah

why exactly?

 

[Infinite9Luck]

Tbh it should be re-calced, but yeah

There is no calc tho, it just the standard calc of the wiki for creating a starry sky.

 

[Apotheosis69]

In all honesty, IF it Should be recalced, by all means go ahead.

 

[Specterxxxx]

Tbh it should be re-calced, but yeah

Why?

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Probably because scar got it higher

How funny would it be to recalculate it with the number of stars shown * star gbe

 

[Saqphire]

why exactly?

There is no calc tho, it just the standard calc of the wiki for creating a starry sky.

Why?

We use the manga to supplement TYBW anime feats, right? Cuz if so, don't we see a whole ass galaxy in the manga version of Gremmy's feat

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Clearly it’s not a galaxy and it’s just Kubo’s accidental ink splash

 

[Adam1396]

Better option is having SZ at 2C and god tiers a bit higher after cosmology revision.

 

[Apotheosis69]

SZ will not be 2-C, they dont vastly affect it in a meaningful way. Just shake it a few centimeters

 

[PizzaDante67]

Better option is having SZ at 2C and god tiers a bit higher after cosmology revision.

The realms are accepted as Low 2-C structures right? What else needs to be changed?

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

We use the manga to supplement TYBW anime feats, right?

Some people seem to say that anything not included in the anime or something slightly different in the anime means the manga cannot be used, which I do think is taken the "anime being primary canon" a bit too far.

Cuz if so, don't we see a whole ass galaxy in the manga version of Gremmy's feat

That's what it looks like to me.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Brought this up years ago (2019). It’s considered an irregular galaxy which does not meet the baseline of 3-C according to the standards of the wiki.

Baseline is Milky Way.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Brought this up years ago. It’s considered an irregular galaxy which does not meet the baseline of 3-C according to the standards of the wiki.

Baseline is Milky Way.

Interesting, might be ideal to index a calc specifically for bleach that incorporates the galaxy in an ISL calc

Even if we don’t get 3-C it should be a massive upgrade over the current general reference calc

 

[ichimojii]

The realms are accepted as Low 2-C structures right? What else needs to be changed?

If the realms are low 2C then the garganta should be low 1C since its like outer space to the 3 realms

 

[Apotheosis69]

If the realms are low 2C then the garganta should be low 1C since its like outer space to the 3 realms

That's unf not how that works at all

 

[SilentBob34]

@Specterxxxx any updates about the distance between the Royal realm and Seireitei calc?

 

[Infinite9Luck]

We use the manga to supplement TYBW anime feats, right? Cuz if so, don't we see a whole ass galaxy in the manga version of Gremmy's feat

That's it's not a galaxy for sure though, it's based on interpretation at best.

Galaxies have various amount of colors from yellow to red and especially blue mixed together.

From the official coloring we just see an amass of yellow stars. (Also the shape is irregular and it's not an obvious galaxy either, you can argue it can be different)

They are also just a perfect match to stars clusters...

Also here no galaxy too.

Anime not showing it make it worse. Because it support the interpretation there's not any. Doesn't matter if now God Tiers scales higher, and so it would "make sense", there is still not a concrete proof that's a galaxy.

Just because you see an amass of stars =/= galaxy. Just because it can be a galaxy doesn't mean it has to be an actual galaxy.

Mind you, I can agree if you take the manga only it makes sense to interpret it as possibly a galaxy, but given the anime blatantly left it out then the argument is harder to prove.

Brought this up years ago (2019). It’s considered an irregular galaxy which does not meet the baseline of 3-C according to the standards of the wiki.

Baseline is Milky Way.

Milky way has a diameter of 100,000 light-years across, many irregular galaxies are few thousand to a few tens of thousands of light-years. (Unless we take the high-end of irregular ones). So the feat would qualify in the very high range, of 4A.

 

[AppleLord]

Brought this up years ago (2019). It’s considered an irregular galaxy which does not meet the baseline of 3-C according to the standards of the wiki. Baseline is Milky Way.
.

There we have it boys! We can see the World of the Living from Soul Society! Planet size realms confirmed!!!

 

[Ralp0054]

There we have it boys! We can see the World of the Living from Soul Society! Planet size realms confirmed!!!

I don't know if you're writing this seriously, but let me remind you: these two dimensions are like mirror images of each other.

 

[Apotheosis69]

Even from Apple Lord, that is ofc a joke

 

[Saqphire]

Probably because scar got it higher

How funny would it be to recalculate it with the number of stars shown * star gbe

Aint nobody counting allat

That's it's not a galaxy for sure though, it's based on interpretation at best.

Well it's not verbatim stated of course, but this wiki usually abides by the duck test right?

Galaxies have various amount of colors from yellow to red and especially blue mixed together. From the official coloring we just see an amass of yellow stars.

Mangakas rarely, if ever, think about the colours of the gazillion specific stars in a galaxy to hammer home the fact that there is meant to be a galaxy, especially if it's far away. In fact, since Kubo and many authors who make galaxies such as Naoko Takeuchi draw them in black and white, there is no logic that wouldn't be considered absurd to assume Kubo would need to think about that for it to be valid (especially when the coloured edition wasn't even from him, it was from Shueisha)

(Also the shape is irregular and it's not an obvious galaxy either, you can argue it can be different). Also the shape is irregular and it's not an obvious galaxy either, you can argue it can be different) They are also just a perfect match to stars clusters...

I meant the one at the bottom right of the scan, which looks like a "regular" shaped galaxy from far away to me. The one at the top matches the cluster interpretation you made so I thought I would make it clear

Also here no galaxy too.

He wouldn't need to show it in this scan for it to be true in another scan, also we don't see planets in either interpretation of the feat so galaxies being a possible thing to exist can be true (also, galaxies are just a bunch of stars really)

Anime not showing it make it worse. Because it support the interpretation there's not any.

But we didn't erase any feats made from the manga, we made it into secondary canon where it can supplement stuff the anime either forgets or omits that isn't contradictory. That's why in the second EE thread I made, I was completely against banning the usage of Mayuri's statement about Aizen's immortality just because it was manga-exclusive.

Doesn't matter if now God Tiers scales higher, and so it would "make sense", there is still not a concrete proof that's a galaxy.

That's not the argument I made, the Senna feat upscale is irrelevant to what I was trying to say.

Just because you see an amass of stars =/= galaxy. Just because it can be a galaxy doesn't mean it has to be an actual galaxy.

Duck test applies here imo, but sure ig.

Milky way has a diameter of 100,000 light-years across, many irregular galaxies are few thousand to a few tens of thousands of light-years. (Unless we take the high-end of irregular ones). So the feat would qualify in the very high range, of 4A.

Alright, so should we change the baseline of 3-C just because there are smaller constructs considered as galaxies aswell? Of course not, that's absurd. We take the accepted baseline of what we consider to be a galaxy and move from then on. There are smaller solar systems than our Solar System, smaller stars than our sun, smaller moons than our moon, smaller planets than Earth and etc. so should their respective tiers also be lowered by that logic?

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Aint nobody counting allat

jokes on you glox did that already

would be hilarious trying to get someone to evaluate that tho lmao