BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[Specterxxxx]

Resurrección and Limiters released = Soul King = CFYOW Kenpachi = TYBW Aizen = True Bankai İchigo am İ wrong ?

No, however it was true shikai ichigo that travelled the distance not true bankai ichigo.

 

[Specterxxxx]

We could calc the travel speed feat of ichigo and yhwach circling around the Royal palace very quickly in their fight in EP 28 and use it to calc the distance.

 

[Ralp0054]

No, however it was true shikai ichigo that travelled the distance not true bankai ichigo.

I'm getting there already, 10x true shikai ichigo = Resurrección and Limiters released It's not against logic to accept Hikone, so even if you give 10 times below the speed of Hikone to Ichigo, it would be more fair and accurate than Grimmjow's calculation.

 

[Ralp0054]

We could calc the travel speed feat of ichigo and yhwach circling around the Royal palace very quickly in their fight in EP 28 and use it to calc the distance.

This might work too, I'm against any kind of Grimmjow calculation because it looks ridiculous

 

[PizzaDante67]

I keep thinking about the distance between Reiokyu and Seireitei and I believe it needs a solid measurement, the distance we currently accept is the distance we determine based on the information given to us in the novel, based on Base Grimmjow's movement speed. I say that comparing Ichigo's movement speed with Grimmjow doesn't seem healthy at all, it doesn't fit Ichigo's god-level class at all, let's consider Hikone's achievements in the same novel and consider Ichigo's speed from Hikone's because it has been emphasized many times that he is one of the people who can fight Hikone, would you support such a measurement ?

Yeah idk why we do that anyway. I think we all agree that the best Grimmjow can do is still far below what a True Shikai Ichigo can do.

 

[Ralp0054]

If we handle this distance problem more accurately, we can come up with very large speed calculations.

 

[PizzaDante67]

If we handle this distance problem more accurately, we can come up with very large speed calculations.

I once saw a Databook statement that referred to Royal Palace as being „above the sky and the stars“ but idk how true that is or if that statement even exists to begin with. It‘s been a while since i looked that up. And honestly, i don’t even know if it actually refers to the royal palace to begin with.

 

[Specterxxxx]

I'm getting there already, 10x true shikai ichigo = Resurrección and Limiters released It's not against logic to accept Hikone, so even if you give 10 times below the speed of Hikone to Ichigo, it would be more fair and accurate than Grimmjow's calculation.

This is the best way to calc distance as it relies on the logic of the story. You could try this method.

 

[Ralp0054]

I once saw a Databook statement that referred to Royal Palace as being „above the sky and the stars“ but idk how true that is or if that statement even exists to begin with. It‘s been a while since i looked that up. And honestly, i don’t even know if it actually refers to the royal palace to begin with.

There is no specific distance given to us, the source of the distance we accept is the multiplication of base Grimmjow's speed with the time when Ichigo descended from the palace to the Seireitei.

 

[Ralp0054]

This is the best way to calc distance as it relies on the logic of the story. You could try this method.

I wanted to hear that, I'll do something about it, thank you

 

[Specterxxxx]

I wanted to hear that, I'll do something about it, thank you

I just got 7. 19e 11 m as the distance using 0.072c (10 times slower than hikone speed feat) × 33300s.

This is a rough calc tho, so you should check it yourself at your own time.

 

[Ralp0054]

Bleach God-Tier Speed Calc

vsbattles.fandom.com

It didn't take much effort, I just put everything together in one blog.

 

[Ralp0054]

If we bring revision to the speed of the verse, it will be like a dessert to the meal.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

where is the 0.072c from?

 

[ItsMeat]

If we bring revision to the speed of the verse, it will be like a dessert to the meal.

We need a stable reiokyu-seiretei distance and we get like 7 good feats:

TS Ichigo's travel speed

Aushwallen -> reaction speed for high tiers

The Eyeball creatures -> another reaction speed for high tiers

Kukaku's canon speed -> can be used for Soul Membrane resistance -> Gremmy's meteor -> Zaraki's meteor cut upgrade

 

[Specterxxxx]

where is the 0.072c from?

It comes from true shikai ichigo being at most 10 times slower than ressurecion hikone 0.72c speed feat which was a travel one.

@Ralp0054 you should probably add that in the calc and link the res speed feat to the calc and justify ichigo being 10 times slower

 

[MrTayman616]

Bleach God-Tier Speed Calc

vsbattles.fandom.com

It didn't take much effort, I just put everything together in one blog.

I'll consider Ichigo's speed here as 10 times lower than Resurrección and Limiters released Hikone's speed

This is calc stacking, you can only use a character's speed in a calculation if their speed value is specifically stated or if it's the same scene with the calculation of their speed.

 

[Specterxxxx]

Kukaku's canon speed -> can be used for Soul Membrane resistance -> Gremmy's meteor -> Zaraki's meteor cut upgrade

I don't get this. Elaborate.

 

[Ralp0054]

It comes from true shikai ichigo being at most 10 times slower than ressurecion hikone 0.72c speed feat which was a travel one.

@Ralp0054 you should probably add that in the calc and link the res speed feat to the calc and justify ichigo being 10 times slower

I will lend a hand

This is calc stalking, you can only use a character's speed in a calculation if their speed value is specifically stated or if it's the same scene with the calculation of their speed.

90 percent of bleach characters are scaled by being stalked, all I'm doing here is just updating the old speed blog

 

[AppleLord]

"Getsuga Tenshō" (Ichigo's signature technique) = "Piercer of Heaven" or "Piercer of the Sky" (literally)

The prophecy is embedded in the naming: Ichigo will pierce the celestial order (cut through Heaven's chains) using a technique that strikes the very sky itself. His entire moveset is foreshadowing the day he splits Heaven and Hell.

THE ENDGAME: SPLITTING HELL

What the Soul King did: took Primordial World chaos → split it into three ordered realms

What Ichigo will do: take Hell (singular damnation) → split it into Hell (for actual sinners) and Heaven (for the worthy)

What you guys think about this theory? How crazy would that feat be?

 

[MrTayman616]

90 percent of bleach characters are scaled by being stalked, all I'm doing here is just updating the old speed blog

Dunno what you mean, since the speed calculations in bleack doesn't appear to use anything like this as far as i see.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

This is calc stacking, you can only use a character's speed in a calculation if their speed value is specifically stated or if it's the same scene with the calculation of their speed.

This is correct

That calculation is unusable.

90 percent of bleach characters are scaled by being stalked, all I'm doing here is just updating the old speed blog

Read here

 

[Specterxxxx]

This is calc stacking, you can only use a character's speed in a calculation if their speed value is specifically stated or if it's the same scene with the calculation of their speed.

It Isn't necessarily calc staking as hikone travel speed feat rating is based off two things.

• The 0.72c calc that is based off hikone moving so fast lightning (grimjoww) appears to stand still.
• A 70% speed of light rating that comes from narrative implications by the author of the feat being broken down here

So ichigo being ten slower in base or true shikai comes from both conclusions and wouldn't necessarily be calc staking imo or would it still be even when there is a narrative implication of hikone speed still being 0.7c?

 

[Specterxxxx]

It Isn't necessarily calc staking as hikone travel speed feat rating is based off two things.

• The 0.72c calc that is based off hikone moving so fast lightning (grimjoww) appears to stand still.
• A 70% speed of light rating that comes from narrative implications by the author of the feat being broken down here

So ichigo being ten slower in base or true shikai comes from both conclusions and wouldn't necessarily be calc staking imo or would it still be even when there is a narrative implications (not calc) of hikone speed still being 0.7c?

@LephyrTheRevanchist would it still be calc staking based off this?

 

[ItsMeat]

I don't get this. Elaborate.

Kukaku's canon is able to launch squad 0, ichigo, rukia, renji, byakuya and that huge pillar all the way to reiokyu

If we assume it used the same power for the orb thing ichigo&party used when penetrating the soul membrane after a clash we may be able to determine the soul membrane's durability(considering it went extreme diff against the orb) and chainscale gremmy's meteor from that.

It's based on a lot of assumptions tho

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

This is like two layers of calc stacking, the 0.72c is from a calculation, No CGM is accepting that, the blog from cyber outright says they don’t know an exact value and just threw in 70% lol

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

It Isn't necessarily calc staking as hikone travel speed feat rating is based off two things.

• The 0.72c calc that is based off hikone moving so fast lightning (grimjoww) appears to stand still.

Using that one would fit 100% the calc stacking situation.

• A 70% speed of light rating that comes from narrative implications by the author of the feat being broken down here

This one is grey area, would have to ask a calculation member. If this one is considered stated speed, then we can use the multipliers rule (as stated in the calc stacking page that it's allowed).

 

[DragoZeroNova]

Bleach characters aren't scaled by stacking, they're scaled by multipliers which is why it's okay. For example, character A scales to Y, then has a 10x multiplier. Character B scales to Character A when using his multiplier, which would be 10x Y. Character B then has his own 10x multiplier, so if Character C beats Character B while he's in his 10x multiplier state, Character C would be 100x Y.
That's how the AP scaling is for around 90% or so of all Bleach characters, which is why it's allowed.

 

[Specterxxxx]

the blog from cyber outright says they don’t know an exact value and just threw in 70% lol

Ķnowing the exact value isn't needed, what we do know is that for hikone to do that, they would be moving at atleast 70% light speed to induce those phenomena. So this is based off narrative and scientific facts from an author that is very knowledgeable on quantum physics.

 

[Specterxxxx]

Using that one would fit 100% the calc stacking situation.

I agree.

This one is grey area, would have to ask a calculation member. If this one is considered stated speed, then we can use the multipliers rule (as stated in the calc stacking page that it's allowed).

But we can atleast consider that this one isn't based off calcs right? which is what causes calc staking.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

If the scaling chain is done via statements I think that’s fine

If it’s based on screen showings that might cause issues, there was a thread about changing up our standards regarding that, Hikone’s 70% LS thingy is a bit complicated, 0.7c is probably too arbitrary but if you can link a reliable source that says the feat can only happen at high end relavistic speeds you might be able to get away with using baseline rel+

Don’t quote me on that tho

 

[MrTayman616]

90 percent of bleach characters are scaled by being stalked, all I'm doing here is just updating the old speed blog

Who's stalking them?

A 70% speed of light rating that comes from narrative implications by the author of the feat being broken down here

This one can be argued, though i mostly think this one would be deleted completely. It's way too arbitraty, no real statement or anything like that but using "real life logic", which isn't even allowed as far as i know.

 

[Ralp0054]

This one is grey area, would have to ask a calculation member. If this one is considered stated speed, then we can use the multipliers rule (as stated in the calc stacking page that it's allowed).

Let me say again, I am not presenting anything contradictory or made up about bleach scaling, I reached this conclusion by considering the multipliers already used and the travel speeds that have supporting evidence, The content of the novel had already caused a revision, I used the novel itself as a counter argument, that's all

 

[Ralp0054]

Who's stalking them?

 

[MrTayman616]

Let me say again, I am not presenting anything contradictory or made up about bleach scaling, I reached this conclusion by considering the multipliers already used and the travel speeds that have supporting evidence, The content of the novel had already caused a revision, I used the novel itself as a counter argument, that's all

No one claims this.

The thing is, using values from other calculations in this way is considered calc stacking. Like, if someone has FTL speed via calc, you wouldn't be able to use that value for any other calc unless it happens in the exact same scene.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

It’s been a hot minute since I read tybw’s manga counterpart but the 9 hour travel time thing is from the clock showing right?

 

[Ralp0054]

It’s been a hot minute since I read tybw’s manga counterpart but the 9 hour travel time thing is from the clock showing right?

yeah

 

[Apotheosis69]

So none of Ralp's calcs are usable, cus of calc stacking

 

[Ralp0054]

No one claims this.

The thing is, using values from other calculations in this way is considered calc stacking. Like, if someone has FTL speed via calc, you wouldn't be able to use that value for any other calc unless it happens in the exact same scene.

So what do you think about Arc's blog?

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

yeah

Yeah this is gonna be an issue since the anime invalidated this version by removing the clock entirely, we’ll need a new timeframe