Artoria Pendragon (Saber) Vs Ichigo Kurosaki (Honkai: Star Rail X Fate/Stay Night Vs Bleach)

[CastoriceTheFifth]

If you count Invul, it is a stomp

If you don't, the odd against Ichigo is still extremely high, as Saber have a lot of option to deal with him, while Ichigo can only go close, physical combat with Saber to have a chance of dealing meaningful damage

I wanna say the latter so the fight continues but Invulnerability negation under Imaginary Energy for pathstriders users due to being capable of fighting Saber and Archer sounds like a really good HSR upscale

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Bleach already posses magic shouldn't that be enough to consider that as mystic?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

If i'm not wrong, Bleach's Reiatsu or something, is spiritual/soul energy?, Servant can absorb soul to strengthening themselves, so theoretically speaking, if Ichigo using his spiritual thing on Saber, she can absorb it to actually power her up

Quincies can do the same too so this ain't working?

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

He starts 4km away so he can't even get close

Just saying, this was originally supposed to be Archer Vs Ichigo

 

[Vietthai96]

I wanna say the latter so the fight continues but Invulnerability negation under Imaginary Energy for pathstriders users due to being capable of fighting Saber and Archer sounds like a really good HSR upscale

No, not invul negation, as long as it is magic, supernatual thing, it can affect servant.

Quincies can do the same too so this ain't working?

Wdym?

Just saying, this was originally supposed to be Archer Vs Ichigo

Archer just stomps

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

No, not invul negation, as long as it is magic, supernatual thing, it can affect servant.

Bleach has magic (Burn the witch)

Wdym?

They can absorb spiritual matter too

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

No, not invul negation, as long as it is magic, supernatual thing, it can affect servant.

Alr if it’s just supernatural then this fight should be able to continue

Wdym?

Quincies absorb any reishi around them to buff themselves. Ichigo already fought against this like against Uryu absorbing his stuff.

 

[Vietthai96]

They can absorb spiritual matter too

Quincies absorb any reishi around them to buff themselves. Ichigo already fought against this like against Uryu absorbing his stuff.

Good luck trying to absorb soul in Fate, which is higher dimensional and information, conceptual stuff

Alr if it’s just supernatural then this fight should be able to continue

Because if it is supernatural, then in nasuverse setting, it is equal to having mystery. Though i still have problem with the wiki accepted this as something can't be equalized crossverse, despite this mechanism can be easily equalized crossverse

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Wdym?

Quincies can absorb Reishi to amp their strength and Speed

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Good luck trying to absorb soul in Fate, which is higher dimensional and information, conceptual stuff

No need to absorb it from Saber directly. Reishi is available everywhere (like even in the ground/buildings)

 

[Violetcyanide]

Because if it is supernatural, then in nasuverse setting, it is equal to having mystery. Though i still have problem with the wiki accepted this as something can't be equalized crossverse, despite this mechanism can be easily equalized crossverse

We already had a thread for This and the majority agreed with paul argument

The main point of contention is honestly just what counts as mystery and if it should be given out for matches

Based on the rules of the site (the whole you don't gain powers from verse equal, with mystery very much being a power as it grants abilities, resistances etc), it shouldn't be given via verse equal or anything of the sort, so no one else can really get it out of universe, meaning opponents in threads would have to have good enough invulnerability negation of their own (without mystery) in order to have matches

Even ignoring the above, the stuff people think gives mystery is far too lax, any sort of magical or mystical thing is not granting mystery, as there's magic in universe that has none, things unknown to humanity is a stretch because Nasu humanity (which would be the litmus for granting mystery if we did that still), knows a lot, and/or can do a lot, and it's moreso that it has to be unknowable than just unknown.

Additionally, it's not as if just having mystery at all is enough, there's an example in mats I think, talking about how if someone got mystery because they're like 500 years old, a servant would just negate their powers still and take 0 damage from their strikes still, because you have to be a mystery on par with them, not just have mystery in general (hence stuff like "most mages can't beat servants" cause the servants will just ignore and/or null all their spells and one shot them, despite their spells having mystery)

TL;DR

Mystery already is accepted as 4d, we are way too lax on what we consider to grant enough mystery to affect a servant, and mystery shouldn't be granted anyway because of the explict rule against doing that stuff

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Good luck trying to absorb soul in Fate, which is higher dimensional and information, conceptual stuff

I'm not arguing that Ichigo absorbing anything from Saber. I'm talking about Ichigo resisting or having encountered people who can absorb his powers. You said Saber can absorb Ichigo soul powers and amp herself. I was talking about that.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

We already had a thread for This and the majority agreed with paul argument

So Imaginary Energy upscale isn’t off the table?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Just close this then. Ichigo cannot do anything due to not being from nasuverse.

 

[Vietthai96]

No need to absorb it from Saber directly. Reishi is available everywhere (like even in the ground/buildings)

Then Saber can also do the same thing if there is spiritual stuff around her

We already had a thread for This and the majority agreed with paul argument

And i still heavily disagree with it. I love how he uses Servant despite the fact that Servant already have magic resistance, in case of Saber who have A rank magic resistance allows her to simply cancel out all spells come from Caster who is Medea, a witch from the Age of Gods, her Mystery must be higher due to her magecraft is close to magic. Or Archer only have D rank magic resistance that any spells that is two steps and above are lethal to him

Mystery is a very whack mechanic anyway

So Imaginary Energy upscale isn’t off the table?

No, i don't think so. They do not retain this Mystery when crossverse, as unlike Servant Physiology which is innate physiology, Mystery is cosmological, environmental mechanic, Mystery is measured by how old something is, and how concealed they are (as in the less know about them, the higher the mystery they have). It is stated in the verse that modern era slowly degrade Mystery due to science can replicate more stuff that was considered as magic in the old era.

So even if they bring Mystery crossverse, the extremely advanced sci-fi world of Honkai, and extreme lack of magical energy will just degrade Mystery to extreme level

 

[Voidnether]

This is like the second matchup today that's a stomp for HSR after the Dan Heng vs Saitama one (Castorice recommendation) well

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

This is like the second matchup today that's a stomp for HSR after the Dan Heng vs Saitama one (Castorice recommendation) well

Broskie the stomp is question is whether or not saber invulnerability stomps ichigo

the 3 outcomes are

Ichigo bypasses

Imaginary Energy upscale

Saber isnt invulnerability because she cant draw fame or mystery from Hoyoverse and that mystery is extremely rare here according to her.

 

[Voidnether]

Broskie the stomp is question is whether or not saber invulnerability stomps ichigo

the 3 outcomes are

Ichigo bypasses

Imaginary Energy upscale

Saber isnt invulnerability because she cant draw fame or mystery from Hoyoverse and that mystery is extremely rare here according to her.

Ichigo bypasses and stomps saber, it's still a stomp bro like saber has no abilities unlike archer that actually has some if that's the case anyway and other 2 is obviously a stomp to ichigo so same thing

 

[Voidnether]

Guys
I love saber and archer

robo do you love cipher

 

[Specterxxxx]

So whats the verdict here? Are we removing saber's invulnerability here? What's her win cons without it?

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Ichigo bypasses and stomps saber, it's still a stomp bro like saber has no abilities unlike archer that actually has some if that's the case anyway and other 2 is obviously a stomp to ichigo so same thing

Ichigo stomping is crazy

Have enough "Age" or being Mystical can affect Servant. However Saber have high rank (iirc A rank) magic resistance, it is powerful to the point that Caster, strongest magic user servant, all her magic just simply get nullified. And before anyone bring out Ruler Breaker, it didn't target Saber but simply the contact between her and Shirou. Magecraft in Nasuverse is many things, from simply elements to reality bending, soul, concept, information ***** too so the Ichigo hax is mostly useless

Saber have B rank luck which make Gae Bolg's NP missed her heart, Gae Bolg pierce the heart by rewind causality to make the target heart already pierced by it, since you can't "dodge" your past, as it is established event

Saber's Battle Instinct is borderline Precognition allows her to react to future events, it play a part in her successful attempt to dodge Gae Bolg (combine with luck stat of course). This Instinct also allow her to predict and dodge Sasaki Kojiro's Tsubame Gaeshi which is a swords skill so crazy that it create dimension refraction phenomeno (iirc the name), pretty much a swords skill that transcend dimensions to creates 3 sword strike simultaneously to trap the opponent, of course Saber could dodge due to the sword Kojiro using is a normal sword which get bend after trading blows with top tier sword, but it didn't downplay the ability of both characters

Saber sword is constantly covered by Invisible Air which conceal the sword shape to confuse her opponent. Given Ichigo IQ, he could likely figured it out to be a sword, but measure its shape, size, length gonna be extremely hard, this is already hard for Servants. Invisible Air can also be releases as wind burst attack that ripple her opponents apart, she done this against Berserker in UBW route, close range, he couldn't dodge it

Mana Burst allows her to boost her stats (speed and physical power) in a short time period of time, thus she can suddenly get faster and stronger in the middle of the battle

If i'm not wrong, Bleach's Reiatsu or something, is spiritual/soul energy?, Servant can absorb soul to strengthening themselves, so theoretically speaking, if Ichigo using his spiritual thing on Saber, she can absorb it to actually power her up

So the only thing Ichigo could do is, physical, close combat fight

If you count Invul, it is a stomp

If you don't, the odd against Ichigo is still extremely high, as Saber have a lot of option to deal with him, while Ichigo can only go close, physical combat with Saber to have a chance of dealing meaningful damage

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

So whats the verdict here? Are we removing saber's invulnerability here? What's her win cons without it?

Im not sure what the verdict is

Broskie the stomp is question is whether or not saber invulnerability stomps ichigo

the 3 outcomes are

Ichigo bypasses

Imaginary Energy upscale

Saber isnt invulnerability because she cant draw fame or mystery from Hoyoverse and that mystery is extremely rare here according to her.

Its either one of these 3 verdicts. Im hoping its the second one fr

 

[Specterxxxx]

Im not sure what the verdict is


Its either one of these 3 verdicts. Im hoping its the second one fr

If Ichigo does indeed bypass, does she have a win con?

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

If Ichigo does indeed bypass, does she have a win con?

Check Vietthai's arguments for Saber. Saber's excalibur is like an over 3x multiplier too

• Excalibur: Deals Wind DMG equal to 140.0%—308.0% of Saber's ATK to all enemies, and additionally deals 10 instance(s) of DMG. Each instance of DMG deals Wind DMG equal to 55.0%—121.0% of Saber's ATK to one random enemy. After using Ultimate, the next Basic ATK switches to "Release, the Golden Scepter," and only "Release, the Golden Scepter" can be used.

 

[Vietthai96]

Bypass Mystery?, even without Mystery, she still has resistance. Like the only way for Ichigo to win is trying to overpower her physical power

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Bypass Mystery?, even without Mystery, she still has resistance. Like the only way for Ichigo to win is trying to overpower her physical power

I mean he does have Re AD (all 5 types of AD too)

 

[Specterxxxx]

Have enough "Age" or being Mystical can affect Servant. However Saber have high rank (iirc A rank) magic resistance, it is powerful to the point that Caster, strongest magic user servant, all her magic just simply get nullified. And before anyone bring out Ruler Breaker, it didn't target Saber but simply the contact between her and Shirou. Magecraft in Nasuverse is many things, from simply elements to reality bending, soul, concept, information ***** too so the Ichigo hax is mostly useless

Saber have B rank luck which make Gae Bolg's NP missed her heart, Gae Bolg pierce the heart by rewind causality to make the target heart already pierced by it, since you can't "dodge" your past, as it is established event

Saber's Battle Instinct is borderline Precognition allows her to react to future events, it play a part in her successful attempt to dodge Gae Bolg (combine with luck stat of course). This Instinct also allow her to predict and dodge Sasaki Kojiro's Tsubame Gaeshi which is a swords skill so crazy that it create dimension refraction phenomeno (iirc the name), pretty much a swords skill that transcend dimensions to creates 3 sword strike simultaneously to trap the opponent, of course Saber could dodge due to the sword Kojiro using is a normal sword which get bend after trading blows with top tier sword, but it didn't downplay the ability of both characters

Saber sword is constantly covered by Invisible Air which conceal the sword shape to confuse her opponent. Given Ichigo IQ, he could likely figured it out to be a sword, but measure its shape, size, length gonna be extremely hard, this is already hard for Servants. Invisible Air can also be releases as wind burst attack that ripple her opponents apart, she done this against Berserker in UBW route, close range, he couldn't dodge it

Mana Burst allows her to boost her stats (speed and physical power) in a short time period of time, thus she can suddenly get faster and stronger in the middle of the battle

If i'm not wrong, Bleach's Reiatsu or something, is spiritual/soul energy?, Servant can absorb soul to strengthening themselves, so theoretically speaking, if Ichigo using his spiritual thing on Saber, she can absorb it to actually power her up

So the only thing Ichigo could do is, physical, close combat fight

I take it these are all saber's win cons then?

 

[Specterxxxx]

He starts 4km away so he can't even get close

Ichigo has wayyy higher range than anything I am seeing on Saber's profile. And can cover hundreds of thousands KM in seconds. (his fight with Yhwach EP 28 showed that). He is going to cover that distance nigh instantly as soon as he senses her.

 

[Violetcyanide]

Even ignoring her invulnerability,as a servant her attacks have concept type 1 and information type 2 hax on each hit since servants can damage spirits cores which have all that.

Skill wise, Saber diarmuid says she is his equal,saber diarmuid can defeat Ábartach who chaldean yagyuu called a formidable opponent.

For comparison,yagyuu swordsmanship was one step ahead of Musashi’s own that could simulate hundreds of thousands of possibilities in an instant And chaldean Musashi Who did this believes that chaldea yagyuu is above her skillwise.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Would Archer Vs Aizen be a good fight after this?

EMIYA (Honkai: Star Rail)

Archer is a playable character in Honkai: Star Rail. Archer is the Archer-class Servant of Aventurine summoned during the Penacony Holy Grail War. His real name is EMIYA and he is dedicated to protecting his planet as a Heroic Spirit and Counter Guardian. Tier: Low 1-C, higher with Unlimited...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Sosuke Aizen

Sosuke Aizen (藍染あいぜん 惣そう右介すけ, Aizen Sōsuke?) is the former captain of the 5th Division in the Gotei 13. He later leaves Soul Society with his followers, Gin Ichimaru and Kaname Tosen. His lieutenant was Momo Hinamori. He formerly served as the lieutenant of the 5th Division under Shinji Hirako...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Specterxxxx]

If the invulnerability isn't a thing. Then I vote Ichigo via physically overwhelming and dominating her to secure the dub.

Ichigo can amplify his regular durability with blut by 5 times which can instinctively defend all attacks, even sneak ones and protect Ichigo’s injures even if they are severe.

I also see Ichigo completely dominating her by outclassing her in mobility and agility (matched with instinctive and analytical reaction), intelligence, sword skills, range of his GT and GJ, strength, stamina and endurance which will be gradually increased as the fight continues via insane AD, all of which Ichigo actively uses in combat. Saber's precognition and fate hax can protect at her true, but it wouldn't matter once ichigo outlasts and exhausts her

Even while her sword is invisible, Ichigo is going to figure out her sword range very very quickly after several clashes and use it to his advantage.

As long as she doesn't have a hax that one shots Ichigo or Ichigo can't defend. It's going to rely on CQC which favours Ichigo win conditions far more.

 

[Re5yh]

Ichigo negs

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Saber negs

 

[Loyd]

Unless something changed with servant invulnerability over the years i was afk, Ichigo's soul heritage is ancient and they have dealt with magic via burn the witch.

The magic resist isn't a big deal if saber passively negs getsuga beams, Ichigo can still wield it in his blade for the massive amp, also his AP advantage only grows throughout the fight due to AD and hes one of the few characters that uses his speed amp shunpo liberally bro would outlast and break her ankles on the court.

 

[Loyd]

Even ignoring her invulnerability,as a servant her attacks have concept type 1 and information type 2 hax on each hit since servants can damage spirits cores which have all that.

Skill wise, Saber diarmuid says she is his equal,saber diarmuid can defeat Ábartach who chaldean yagyuu called a formidable opponent.

For comparison,yagyuu swordsmanship was one step ahead of Musashi’s own that could simulate hundreds of thousands of possibilities in an instant And chaldean Musashi Who did this believes that chaldea yagyuu is above her skillwise.

Nevermind if this is true Saber wins decisively

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Its the same exact Saber

Well, ok then. Suddenly, she's pretty skilled (though, a lot of her school comes from skill scaling above people who are kind of bullshit).

The invulerability is mainly based on weapons from regular mortals and the fact Servants are "heroic spirits". So Ichigo wouldn't have an issue interacting with Saber as he's quite legit the equivalent of a spirit/soul

Servants sit atop a hierarchy of Mystery/Mystics to the point where even most Mystics/Mysteries cannot harm them.

Have enough "Age" or being Mystical can affect Servant. However Saber have high rank (iirc A rank) magic resistance, it is powerful to the point that Caster, strongest magic user servant, all her magic just simply get nullified. And before anyone bring out Ruler Breaker, it didn't target Saber but simply the contact between her and Shirou. Magecraft in Nasuverse is many things, from simply elements to reality bending, soul, concept, information ***** too so the Ichigo hax is mostly useless

Saber have B rank luck which make Gae Bolg's NP missed her heart, Gae Bolg pierce the heart by rewind causality to make the target heart already pierced by it, since you can't "dodge" your past, as it is established event

Saber's Battle Instinct is borderline Precognition allows her to react to future events, it play a part in her successful attempt to dodge Gae Bolg (combine with luck stat of course). This Instinct also allow her to predict and dodge Sasaki Kojiro's Tsubame Gaeshi which is a swords skill so crazy that it create dimension refraction phenomeno (iirc the name), pretty much a swords skill that transcend dimensions to creates 3 sword strike simultaneously to trap the opponent, of course Saber could dodge due to the sword Kojiro using is a normal sword which get bend after trading blows with top tier sword, but it didn't downplay the ability of both characters

Saber sword is constantly covered by Invisible Air which conceal the sword shape to confuse her opponent. Given Ichigo IQ, he could likely figured it out to be a sword, but measure its shape, size, length gonna be extremely hard, this is already hard for Servants. Invisible Air can also be releases as wind burst attack that ripple her opponents apart, she done this against Berserker in UBW route, close range, he couldn't dodge it

Mana Burst allows her to boost her stats (speed and physical power) in a short time period of time, thus she can suddenly get faster and stronger in the middle of the battle

If i'm not wrong, Bleach's Reiatsu or something, is spiritual/soul energy?, Servant can absorb soul to strengthening themselves, so theoretically speaking, if Ichigo using his spiritual thing on Saber, she can absorb it to actually power her up

So the only thing Ichigo could do is, physical, close combat fight

I forgot she had Magic Resistance here. Yeah, Ichigo might be screwed since even without Invulnerability, most of his abilities get nullified as soon as they get close to Saber (RIP Getsuga Tensho/Jujisho).

How would that work without having “mystery” in the first place?

I'm not sure, honestly. It might be because their invulnerability isn't layered (yet)?

Nevermind if this is true Saber wins decisively

Yeah, Skill feats in the Nasuverse are kind of ridiculous. For reference, Saber, while summoned under Shirou (which weakens her a lot) was less skilled than Sasaki Kojiro (but she was not so out skilled that she could not keep up with him), who is the same guy fighting Musashi in that clip. (Also, Kojiro has a Skill that makes it so opponents can never get used to his fighting style, so no matter how many times you fight him, it feels like you're fighting him for the first time).

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Let this be the first successful Fate cross verse matchup fr

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Unless something changed with servant invulnerability over the years i was afk, Ichigo's soul heritage is ancient and they have dealt with magic via burn the witch.

Basically regarding invulnerability this match. Theres 3 outcomes

Ichigo bypasses by simply fitting the requirements

Imaginary Energy upscale

Saber isnt invulnerability because she cant draw fame or mystery from Hoyoverse and that mystery is extremely rare here according to her.

If its the second option theres also 3 more outcomes

HSR characters can harm servants because imaginary energy is a supernatural power, fitting said requirements despite mystery being extremely rare in Hoyoverse. (Imaginary Energy is also vastly different than magic as confirmed by Saber and Lancer)

Imaginary Energy contains Invulnerability negation to harm servants.

Saber isn't invulnerable because she cant draw upon fame or mystics in HSR and that mystery is extremely rare there.

So yeah idk

 

[Loyd]

Yeah, Skill feats in the Nasuverse are kind of ridiculous. For reference, Saber, while summoned under Shirou (which weakens her a lot) was less skilled than Sasaki Kojiro (but she was not so out skilled that she could not keep up with him), who is the same guy fighting Musashi in that clip. (Also, Kojiro has a Skill that makes it so opponents can never get used to his fighting style, so no matter how many times you fight him, it feels like you're fighting him for the first time).

Yeah ive seen Fate stay night and zero, even after getting done dirty my boy Diarmuid still upscaling saber skill feats smh.

 

[Tdjwo]

This just makes me understand why Nasuverse character rarely get used in vs battles. Too broken even in equal stats. Imagine an average servant simply existing and still being untouchable to other verses characters just cuz of their physiology