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The biggest Deltarune CRT in history: Chapters 3 & 4 Tiering, LS and Speed Upgrades

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Sparkive said:
Downscaling can exist, but in your best-case scenario, there's probably a scaling chain (Mizzle must be lower than Miss Mizzle, and then, everbody lowert than Mizzle will likely downscale her).
Click to expand...
I don't get your point, weaker doesn't always mean "must be completely fodder in comparison", the fact they can fight together implies a degree of relativity.

Also you'd need to revise Undertale's stat scaling too for this argument to work, but I'll guarantee you it'll fail.
Sparkive said:
Not really, not necessarily
Click to expand...
"I say so" isn't an argument. The damage is shown to be comparable as well, it's intended for these to be relative.
Sparkive said:
They're probably stronger than those two, yeah... but that doesn't automatically make them comparable. They'll probably end up scaling to almost the same level, but the reason can't be that having the Dark Crystal means they must be at a similar level when Gerson exists to prove otherwise (almost untouchable for a Lightner, literally returning one of its strongest attacks and suffering no real damage when it finally hits, and fast enough to remove its items without it noticing, besides almost destroying the Titan's protection by itself)
Perhaps you can scale the Dark Crystal wielders above normal Darkners (just remove any downscaling between Jevil and Neo Spamton, seriously)
Click to expand...
My entire point is them both having a similar superiority over these mini-bosses due to being ShadowCrystal holders, yes, I am not saying that ShadowCrystals empower people like the Chaos Emeralds.
Sparkive said:
That's... actually fair, my only problem is that it would make him stronger than "K. Round" who is clearly above the average citizen (but meh)
Click to expand...
Who says that it would? K. Round is meant to be a genuine tank as the Fun Gang cannot defeat normally given that it can always use the self-heal. It absolutely scales to the full value unlike base Spamton.

Also K. Round has no Recruit Stats, so you can't say he has to be weaker than Ch 2 fodders.
Sparkive said:
And she scale to Tenna?
If so, go ahead
By the way, I was looking at the calculation, and personally, that seems much more than 145 degrees to me (which would buff the feat).
Click to expand...
Tbh yours is a... good question actually.

I think that a way to scale to Tenna is using the fact that Rouxls Kaard, Tasque Manager and the Weather Duo as comparable due to my arguments above, and how fodders like Shadowmen are shown to be capable of also threatening Rouxls, or to harm Tenna (Susiezilla was later featured in Tenna's physical challenges in the final fight, meaning that it's intended lore-wise), solidifying that stats that are 11 or above should be comparable to Tenna to a degree.

Also, if you can calculate an angle that's more than 145° then go ahead, I tried it myself and it's a genuine hassle to do.
 
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StrymULTRA said:
Tbh yours is a... good question actually.

I think that a way to scale to Tenna is using the fact that Rouxls Kaard, Tasque Manager and the Weather Duo as comparable due to my arguments above, and how fodders like Shadowmen are shown to be capable of also threatening Rouxls, or to harm Tenna (Susiezilla was later featured in Tenna's physical challenges in the final fight, meaning that it's intended lore-wise), solidifying that stats that are 11 or above should be comparable to Tenna to a degree.

Also, if you can calculate an angle that's more than 145° then go ahead, I tried it myself and it's a genuine hassle to do.
Click to expand...
This site helps with figuring out angles
www.ginifab.com

Online Protractor

Measuring degrees of angles with this transparent online protractor, use your laptop, computer, tablet or smartphone to measure the angle of any objects
www.ginifab.com
 
Lilybitdun said:
This site helps with figuring out angles
www.ginifab.com

Online Protractor

Measuring degrees of angles with this transparent online protractor, use your laptop, computer, tablet or smartphone to measure the angle of any objects
www.ginifab.com
Click to expand...
No shit sherlock, that's for 2D angles. Tenna's animation is on a 3D view, so that's not compatible.
 
StrymULTRA said:
No shit sherlock, that's for 2D angles. Tenna's animation is on a 3D view, so that's not compatible.
Click to expand...
Dude chill

I've used it for 3d angles before
vsbattles.fandom.com

Street Fighter: Juri Kicks Rocket Recalc

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Just have the shoulders overlap and then center the protractor on the shoulder, you get a roughly 230 degree angle


tho for an actual recalc should seperately measure the half arm movement and the full arm movement for the total movement
 
Lilybitdun said:
Dude chill

I've used it for 3d angles before
vsbattles.fandom.com

Street Fighter: Juri Kicks Rocket Recalc

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Just have the shoulders overlap and then center the protractor on the shoulder, you get a roughly 230 degree angle


tho for an actual recalc should seperately measure the half arm movement and the full arm movement for the total movement
Click to expand...

Not at home atm to do the recalc, but some quick maths takes Tenna's feat from 48,927416587 tons to 123,10394001 tons. Or 2,51605232x higher.
Using the entire mass of Tenna gives 1,224 Kilotons.
 
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Edutyn said:
Not at home atmto do the recalc, but some quick maths takes Tenna's feat from 48,927416587 tons to 123,10394001 tons. Or 2,51605232x higher.
Using the entire mass of Tenna gives 1,224 Kilotons.
Click to expand...
Yeah it'll likely fall into the 8-B+ to 8-A range when recalced (using just the arms was what was accepted)

To help with protractor accuracy I usually overlay a circle with the radius of the object. So one circle for the full arm and then another for the half arm so you can measure the angle moved for both
I would do it but I'm a lil busy rn
 
Edutyn said:
Not at home atmto do the recalc, but some quick maths takes Tenna's feat from 48,927416587 tons to 123,10394001 tons. Or 2,51605232x higher.
Using the entire mass of Tenna gives 1,224 Kilotons.
Click to expand...
Did you account for fact that arms moved down significantly (and it wasn't due to free fall)
 
Edutyn said:
Not at home atm to do the recalc, but some quick maths takes Tenna's feat from 48,927416587 tons to 123,10394001 tons. Or 2,51605232x higher.
Using the entire mass of Tenna gives 1,224 Kilotons.
Click to expand...
I wonder, wouldn't you be able to also calculate Tenna's jump in comparison with the electricity? It can be a way to calculate both his KE with his full mass and also LS, given we do use jumps for the latter.

Though I'd do both the jump and the hand clap, just to be sure.
 
Sparkive said:
Not really, not necessarily
Click to expand...
I think what he means is a NOTICABLE difference. Adding a ant to a humans power is practically non-existent, but with Rouxls not only is it noticeable it deals similar damage too, which is why they're arguing him to be comparable
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
This calc in specific is wrong. The light have already reached the top of the panel even before the movement, the thing is that it takes a while for it to expand, but the travel speed is basically done instantly
Click to expand...
We aren't calculating the speed of the pumpkin compared to the big light, but the smaller, more intense rays of light emitted by the SOUL which expand at the same speed.
 
As such creating a dimension large enough to contain a starry sky does qualify as a 4-A Tier feat; however.

  • There should be evidence or a well detailed explanation that a pocket dimension was created, and not simply an illusion or teleportation to another location.
  • There should be some reason to consider the backgrounds stars, not just painted decorations within a throne room or museum.
Click to expand...
Do we actually have this?
 
StrymULTRA said:
I wonder, wouldn't you be able to also calculate Tenna's jump in comparison with the electricity? It can be a way to calculate both his KE with his full mass and also LS, given we do use jumps for the latter.

Though I'd do both the jump and the hand clap, just to be sure.
Click to expand...
Quick Calc
I'm to tired to do the hand clap rn. I'm gonna take a nap and later i will continue the calc
 
Edutyn said:
Quick Calc
I'm to tired to do the hand clap rn. I'm gonna take a nap and later i will continue the calc
Click to expand...
NGL I did not expect it to be that high.

I have a bit of concerns for this similairly for how the Low 7-C Tsunderplane feat is not accepted for UT because it's "too high", but given that we're accepting MHS+ speed despite the fact that the rest is Supersonic+ at best, and here we're getting even FTL, then I suppose that I can get behind Tier 7 Tenna and Tier 7 UT in the future.

Overall I am neutral here.
 
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One question I've had since I saw the first calculation is: where does the 20% hollowness for Tenna's arms or the 60% for his head come from?

I imagine that in the case of the head you can check how hollow a normal CRT TV is (An assumption of 60% seems reasonable in these cases, and could even be higher.), but where does the assumption for the arms come from?

Furthermore, the material
in
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Edutyn/Tenna's_Size it is assumed that his body is made of steel
but in
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Edutyn/Tenna_faster_than_electricity is assumed to be made of titanium
(If we assume that the head and body are made of the same materials, we could check what a CRT TV is made of.)
 
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StrymULTRA said:
Tbh yours is a... good question actually.

I think that a way to scale to Tenna is using the fact that Rouxls Kaard, Tasque Manager and the Weather Duo as comparable due to my arguments above, and how fodders like Shadowmen are shown to be capable of also threatening Rouxls, or to harm Tenna (Susiezilla was later featured in Tenna's physical challenges in the final fight, meaning that it's intended lore-wise), solidifying that stats that are 11 or above should be comparable to Tenna to a degree.
Click to expand...
I mean, idk
The minigame literally ends with "no TVs were harmed in the making of the minigame" so it's probably dramatization on his part? (Besides,If they achieve anything, it's because there are several of them at the same time, and what you're losing by taking damage is popularity, which you share with Susie {I think} {Apart of the Shadowguys, the projectiles that reduce popularity are tennis balls, a cardboard dozer, and the final boss is said to be made of papier-mâché})
I wouldn't take the minigame too seriously
 
Besides that, how does the number of pixels the electricity moves through change?
We're aware that each one in that attack moves at a different speed, right? (They start at the same point, but from left to right, each one moves faster than the previous one.) Why use the fastest one?
 
Lowkey I disagree with like a shit ton of this but for completely vibe related reasons (No, Toby Fox did not intend the characters to be able to bench a million tons).

But unfortunately there’s no legit reason to disagree so….eh.
 
Da3ggman said:
Lowkey I disagree with like a shit ton of this but for completely vibe related reasons (No, Toby Fox did not intend the characters to be able to bench a million tons).

But unfortunately there’s no legit reason to disagree so….eh.
Click to expand...
Death of the author is the birth of the reader etc etc.
 
Da3ggman said:
Lowkey I disagree with like a shit ton of this but for completely vibe related reasons (No, Toby Fox did not intend the characters to be able to bench a million tons).

But unfortunately there’s no legit reason to disagree so….eh.
Click to expand...
I don't think Toby believes Sans could destroy even a wall, but you know
 
Sparkive said:
One question I've had since I saw the first calculation is: where does the 20% hollowness for Tenna's arms or the 60% for his head come from?

I imagine that in the case of the head you can check how hollow a normal CRT TV is (An assumption of 60% seems reasonable in these cases, and could even be higher.), but where does the assumption for the arms come from?

Furthermore, the material
in
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Edutyn/Tenna's_Size it is assumed that his body is made of steel
but in
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Edutyn/Tenna_faster_than_electricity is assumed to be made of titanium
(If we assume that the head and body are made of the same materials, we could check what a CRT TV is made of.)
Click to expand...
also all this
It seems you can see inside, but I don't know if it's flat or hollow.
Psychomaster35 said:
The audience in the foreground always moves at a constant speed that doesn't change even after the electricity appears, so this should still be fine
Click to expand...
Excuse me, but I don't understand.
The Tenna Jump calculation says that Tenna jumped 3.75 meters in the time it takes for the electricity to move 0.076 m (let's ignore the fact that each lightning bolt seems to travel at a different speed).
However, 90% of that jump happens before the lightning bolts even appear, and if you try to measure the distance it travels in the time it takes for the lightning to travel 6 pixels... it's like 10 pixels at most.

How does the audience affect this?
 
Sparkive said:
Excuse me, but I don't understand.
The Tenna Jump calculation says that Tenna jumped 3.75 meters in the time it takes for the electricity to move 0.076 m (let's ignore the fact that each lightning bolt seems to travel at a different speed).
However, 90% of that jump happens before the lightning bolts even appear, and if you try to measure the distance it travels in the time it takes for the lightning to travel 6 pixels... it's like 10 pixels at most.

How does the audience affect this?
Click to expand...
Oh, I see the actual problem. Yeah, the jumping can't work.
 
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