AlipheeseXIV
He/Him- 3,306
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Telomera is a fraud there's actually no way, like he can't even do things without Ultima
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Blue Archive High 1-B Downgrade
- Thread starter EinelRendezvous
- Start date
- Status
OnlyonethatEXIST
He/Him- 217
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project moon is not only limbus company, also hi nether I'm from Indonesia
OnlyonethatEXIST
He/Him- 217
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OnlyonethatEXIST
He/Him- 217
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W BestMGQScalerEver
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Stop flooding the thread with unnecessary banters or things unrelated to the CRT
And if replying to someone, put it into a single comment rather than 3 multiple ones
And if replying to someone, put it into a single comment rather than 3 multiple ones
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No offense, this thread feels way too personally driven, ngl.
From what I skimmed through this derailed chat so far:
Most of the downgrade "evidence: is being either 1. Interpreted wrongly and taken out of context, or 2. Trying to make too much out of commonplace antifeats prevalent in any other verse.
It then makes me wonder why it's now a contradiction considering how blatantly, via multiple times, the evidence for High 1-B is there aka "infinite multidimensionality". It was accepted surprisingly very well in the previous CRT, but now all the sudden people are agreeing here that it's not because of arbitrary statements?
From what I skimmed through this derailed chat so far:
Most of the downgrade "evidence: is being either 1. Interpreted wrongly and taken out of context, or 2. Trying to make too much out of commonplace antifeats prevalent in any other verse.
It then makes me wonder why it's now a contradiction considering how blatantly, via multiple times, the evidence for High 1-B is there aka "infinite multidimensionality". It was accepted surprisingly very well in the previous CRT, but now all the sudden people are agreeing here that it's not because of arbitrary statements?
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Honestly this thread should be a nothingburger and the fact that some people already got tallied for agreeing with it due to a lot of roundabout attempts at debunking the previous CRT, is honestly confusing to me.
The notion that I may nees to make a counter CRT just for this is exhausting just to think about.
The notion that I may nees to make a counter CRT just for this is exhausting just to think about.
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Hm? I have provide a full evidences and context which actually elaborates many of your arguments doesnt fully explain things. If the scaling is valid, it will withstand scrutiny. If it collapses under scrutiny, then revising it is the correct move, not a personal attack.
No offense, but this response oversimplifies the issue and ignores the core problem. The disagreement isn’t “personal,” nor is it driven by cherry-picking antifeats. The critique is that the so-called “High 1-B evidence” relies heavily on vague or contextless statements that don’t actually establish infinite multidimensionality in a formal or scalable sense. Previous acceptance in an older CRT doesn’t make the reasoning automatically immune to revision, consistency checks are the entire point of a revision thread.
Calling counter-arguments “arbitrary” doesn’t address the substance of the critique:
the supposed High 1-B grounds are either misinterpreted, overstated, or contradict the structural rules normally used for dimensional tiering.
That’s why people are reconsidering it, not because of bias, but because the arguments need to hold up under scrutiny.
Labeling the thread a “nothingburger” also ignores that several users have already found legitimate logical gaps in the earlier interpretation. If a counter-CRT feels exhausting, that isn’t a flaw in the critique; it simply means the previous justification needs stronger foundations than a handful of broad statements.
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FantaRin_The_First
Username Only- 4,447
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Huh. As a pep who was apart of the OG CRT thread, I have to say... Where the hell did the possibly scaling to High 1-B come from for students? The proposal given in the CRT were only meant to give High 1-B ratings to Aris' Ark of ATRAHASIS, and there was nothing in the thread itself that upgraded students to possibly High 1-B.
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This doesn’t come from anyone trying to scale students to High 1-B. The problem is that the original CRT’s justification for Aris’ Ark of Atrahasis being High 1-B was already built on shaky assumptions, and the current rebuttals are simply pointing out why those assumptions don’t hold up.
No one is retroactively “adding” High 1-B to the students.
What’s happening is this:
If the Ark’s barrier and its supporting lore don’t actually demonstrate a formal infinite-dimensional structure, then Aris doesn’t reach High 1-B, and in turn the False Sanctums also don’t reach it.
The Ark never houses infinite dimensions.
Instead, it temporarily uses Chroma’s technology to access external dimensional branches in a state of quantum superposition. This is a functional mechanic, not an ontological structure. The Infinite Dimensions exist outside the Ark, not inside it.
The story later shows the Ark’s interior in a 3-D map, which alone disproves any claim of “Infinite Dimensions contained within.”
If it truly encapsulated an infinite higher-dimensional hierarchy, collapsing superposition would cause a cosmological-scale event—not the small localized explosion shown in the story.
I have provide dozens of scans to debunk it, please read the full context before replying.
FantaRin_The_First
Username Only- 4,447
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Oh sorry, that wasn't meant for you. I fully agree with your CRT. I meant that students have possiby scaling to High 1-B despite Pentling's CRT only applying to Aris' Ark meaning that Pentling, once again, added something that wasn't apart of a CRT... which was smth he was supposed to get a temp ban over prior to their High 1-B CRT but whatever.
I kinda just typed my thoughts before thinking cuz I am pretty tired over stuff like this happening to the BA pages.
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Thank you so much for pointing stuff out. So does it means I can also report about it myself to staffs? Its also bugging me for those possibly rating to students.
FantaRin_The_First
Username Only- 4,447
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Probs. You should also include Hoshino's page cuz her Terror form got upgraded to High 1-B despite not being apart of the High 1-B CRT. Although, I do think the justifications are legit but eh.
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For the love of God, stop ********** project moon games. We get it that you like themI think project moon games deserve more since they have consistent Powerscale and UES but got lowballed everytime. Great job you have good arguments
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It'll have infinite volume, but I'm not sure if it has infinite spatial size.
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May you give your input now? seems no counterargument so far. And many of counterarguments had been proven wrong.
DemonKing021
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OP seems to make more sense here
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Many of your counterclaims can be considered “broad” as well by that logic, though, no?
[Furthermore, this is reinforced in Volume Final, Chapter 3, Episode 1, where Shiroko Terror states that “not every existing world has a predetermined future.” This directly implies that the possibility-based branches of parallel universes do not all come into actual existence.]
Just because not all of them come into existence doesn’t need the notion of infinite number of said universes isn’t a thing. At best, it’s like trying to subtract from infinity with something not necessarily also infinity.
[What actually happens is this: they harness Chroma’s mysterious technology to operate the Ark of Atrahasis simultaneously, enabling it to function in a state of superposition. The so-called “Infinite Dimensions” are not contained within the Ark. Rather, the Ark taps into the structure of Infinite Dimensions externally to maintain its existence. This is confirmed clearly in Volume F, Chapter 3, Episode 16, where Arona Alter explains that when the vessel is damaged, it is replaced by an identical copy from another dimension. This indicates that the Infinite Dimensional structure exists outside the Ark, and the Ark only accesses that structure in a limited way.]
This is quite a claim to make. It’s like saying Hi3 isn’t hyperversal because of “bubble universes” and that there’s been canonically multiple Kianas, for example. Or something like Gurren Lagann isn’t Complex Multiversal because there’s multiple Simons. This is too much of a stretch since such a concept is commonplace in many other verses having multiversal to hyperversal cosmology.
[Because the visual depiction of the Ark of Atrahasis losing its superposition stability is shown as a relatively confined explosion, not something even remotely close to affecting the entire planet. If it truly housed Infinite Dimensions, the consequences would be astronomically larger.]
Not necessarily. Wouldn’t losing control be simple depowerment, and otherwise, it’s an intentional outliner at best because why would the writer want to end everything in a twist of an explosive tragedy?
[When the students try to use the ship’s multidimensional analysis system, they make a critical error, their calculations are inaccurate, and as a result, they fail to breach the barrier. Rio’s statement is an analogy, not a literal explanation. She makes this clear by saying “it’s similar,” not “it’s equivalent.” And if you read the preceding chapters, this becomes even more obvious.
From the start, the operation was stated to have only a 3% chance of success. This is explicitly shown in Volume F, Chapter 3, Episode 9. So it is completely reasonable that a miscalculation occurred and resulted in failure. Given that information, it is already very clear that Rio’s statement does not describe a dimensional gap implying quantitative superiority. It is simply an analogy, nothing more. The original context never pointed toward higher-dimensional hierarchy at all.]
Ahhh there it is. The misinterpretation. I’m not sure such a statement from a character who is VERY intellectual and knowledgeable should be perceived otherwise. Also isn’t quantum superposition a state of being everywhere at once which can also mean infinity? Wouldn’t this be a case of infinity over infinity?
[To put it simply, the mysterious energy sustaining the False Sanctum is limited.
Its output can be estimated. The moment it appears, the Kivotos students' technology already calculated that they could destroy it within two weeks. This is explicitly stated in Volume F, Chapter 2, Episode 1. The later reappearance of False Sanctum energy is still measurable, with only a 300% increase, not an infinite or unbounded one. Its destructive effects are visually unimpressive, nowhere near what a supposedly hyperdimensional construct should produce.]
Now this is the one that does have the most merit, I’ll admit. However, here’s the thing. When something manifests within a lower dimensional level, it has to constrain or restrict itself in one way or another to properly make that transfer, right? The way in which it’s done more or less varies from verse to verse. Blue Archive isn’t as lore-driven as some of these other gacha game verses, so the importance and significance of any cosmology-based context is more emphasized. This is not a case of writers’ inconsistency, but intentionally done in order to give the franchise that unique appeal from others, and seriously, can I even fault them for that? In short, I see this one as another outliner with a bit more decent footing.
[In my earliest main point, I already explained that the barrier created by the Ark is based purely on Quantum & Dimensional Manipulation through superposition. Now I will expand on that, starting from Volume F, Chapter 4, Episode 1. The students attempt to disconnect Utnapishtim’s Ship because hacking it would reactivate the Ark of Atrahasis’ “dimensional engine.”
Isn’t that already crystal clear? From the very beginning, they were using technology that manipulates dimensions in a limited way, not a mechanism that contains or houses infinite dimensions. To reinforce this point even further, look at Volume F, Chapter 4, Episode 2, where the Ark of Atrahasis is explicitly mapped in a 3-D diagram once its shield is destroyed. This alone confirms its true dimensional structure, it is absolutely impossible for it to be containing Infinite Dimensions. The narrative itself makes the hierarchy unmistakable: the Ark manipulates dimensional states of itself; it does not embody or encompass infinite higher-dimensional reality.]
Maybe I’m missing something, but I’m sure it’s not uncommon within this wiki to have fictional technology or even whole civilization with a visibly limited physical structure containing the ability to manipulate countless dimensions in one way or another. I won’t claim to know how everything goes on VSBW since I’m aware standards change every now and then, but this proof here isn’t much to go off of, either.
[First, it must be emphasized that Aris is never scaled to the full power of the Ark of Atrahasis. She only punctures a portion of its counter multidimensional barrier—and even then, they still require Utnapishtim’s Ship to completely break through the shield. Yes, Aris is the members of the Nameless God/Chroma. She draws on a power source that operates under the same fundamental conditions as the Ark of Atrahasis, which is why she can breach its barrier at all. But even that is not something she accomplishes independently; she uses the Key from Chroma to do so. Aris’ feat of piercing the multidimensional barrier with the Sword of Light (Volume F, Chapter 3, Episode 12) explicitly notes that the only reason the barrier is penetrable is because its superposition is disrupted and cannot be maintained and she can’t do it alone. This is far more accurately categorized as a negation-based feat, not a higher-dimensional destructive capability.]
Aris is labeled having Multiple Selves so “can’t do it alone” is redundant. Also this is NOT just a case of merely breaching the barrier. Even with the quantum superposition abilites, the ship itself is chiefly there to help the crew even get there to a destination literally 75k miles in the sky, so ofc they still need it to even come to contact with the Ark. Aris’ new Ark features overwhelmed the the original one, but it didn’t get them physically closer. Also she was too exhausted afterwards to even do anything else (she almost died iirc) until they “safely” infiltrated the Ark.
[Moreover, Volume F, Chapter 3, Episode 8 spells it out directly:
To break the Ark of Atrahasis’ barrier, they only need to bring Utnapishtim’s Ship into the same quantum superposition. There is no requirement whatsoever for “containing Infinite Dimensions,” which would also be narratively absurd. In fact, this serves as a clear anti-feat demonstrating the true nature and limitations of the barrier.
Given all of the above, the idea that Aris should qualify as High 1-B is not merely unsupported—it directly contradicts the internal logic, mechanics, and explicit exposition of the story.]
I already addressed this, but to add further, Kayoko had made this statement:
If anything has to have a “downgrade”, it’d be the Utnapishtism ship because it was the one making the simulation (and stated multiple times as a weapon meant to oppose the Nameless Gods), but the Ark itself is ACTIVELY described as controlling and processing data, which is already stated to be equivalent to matter in the post Vol F Decagrammaton chapters as I’ve shared before in the previous thread.
I do see that much effort was put into making this thread, but it’s hinging on statements that can also be technically outliners done for the sake of writing aka equivalent to PIS. I can understand why people may note such inconsistencies, but if that was the case, most of the verses on the site would have to go through a lot of similar drastic CRT revisions as well, via this standard. I’ll take back a bit of what I said before..some of these arguments DO have a bit of groundwork to them. If anything, a full cosmology page needs to be done at some point
Also I’m sure it doesn’t matter anymore and that my vote won’t count, but I disagree with said thread.
[Furthermore, this is reinforced in Volume Final, Chapter 3, Episode 1, where Shiroko Terror states that “not every existing world has a predetermined future.” This directly implies that the possibility-based branches of parallel universes do not all come into actual existence.]
Just because not all of them come into existence doesn’t need the notion of infinite number of said universes isn’t a thing. At best, it’s like trying to subtract from infinity with something not necessarily also infinity.
[What actually happens is this: they harness Chroma’s mysterious technology to operate the Ark of Atrahasis simultaneously, enabling it to function in a state of superposition. The so-called “Infinite Dimensions” are not contained within the Ark. Rather, the Ark taps into the structure of Infinite Dimensions externally to maintain its existence. This is confirmed clearly in Volume F, Chapter 3, Episode 16, where Arona Alter explains that when the vessel is damaged, it is replaced by an identical copy from another dimension. This indicates that the Infinite Dimensional structure exists outside the Ark, and the Ark only accesses that structure in a limited way.]
This is quite a claim to make. It’s like saying Hi3 isn’t hyperversal because of “bubble universes” and that there’s been canonically multiple Kianas, for example. Or something like Gurren Lagann isn’t Complex Multiversal because there’s multiple Simons. This is too much of a stretch since such a concept is commonplace in many other verses having multiversal to hyperversal cosmology.
[Because the visual depiction of the Ark of Atrahasis losing its superposition stability is shown as a relatively confined explosion, not something even remotely close to affecting the entire planet. If it truly housed Infinite Dimensions, the consequences would be astronomically larger.]
Not necessarily. Wouldn’t losing control be simple depowerment, and otherwise, it’s an intentional outliner at best because why would the writer want to end everything in a twist of an explosive tragedy?
[When the students try to use the ship’s multidimensional analysis system, they make a critical error, their calculations are inaccurate, and as a result, they fail to breach the barrier. Rio’s statement is an analogy, not a literal explanation. She makes this clear by saying “it’s similar,” not “it’s equivalent.” And if you read the preceding chapters, this becomes even more obvious.
From the start, the operation was stated to have only a 3% chance of success. This is explicitly shown in Volume F, Chapter 3, Episode 9. So it is completely reasonable that a miscalculation occurred and resulted in failure. Given that information, it is already very clear that Rio’s statement does not describe a dimensional gap implying quantitative superiority. It is simply an analogy, nothing more. The original context never pointed toward higher-dimensional hierarchy at all.]
Ahhh there it is. The misinterpretation. I’m not sure such a statement from a character who is VERY intellectual and knowledgeable should be perceived otherwise. Also isn’t quantum superposition a state of being everywhere at once which can also mean infinity? Wouldn’t this be a case of infinity over infinity?
[To put it simply, the mysterious energy sustaining the False Sanctum is limited.
Its output can be estimated. The moment it appears, the Kivotos students' technology already calculated that they could destroy it within two weeks. This is explicitly stated in Volume F, Chapter 2, Episode 1. The later reappearance of False Sanctum energy is still measurable, with only a 300% increase, not an infinite or unbounded one. Its destructive effects are visually unimpressive, nowhere near what a supposedly hyperdimensional construct should produce.]
Now this is the one that does have the most merit, I’ll admit. However, here’s the thing. When something manifests within a lower dimensional level, it has to constrain or restrict itself in one way or another to properly make that transfer, right? The way in which it’s done more or less varies from verse to verse. Blue Archive isn’t as lore-driven as some of these other gacha game verses, so the importance and significance of any cosmology-based context is more emphasized. This is not a case of writers’ inconsistency, but intentionally done in order to give the franchise that unique appeal from others, and seriously, can I even fault them for that? In short, I see this one as another outliner with a bit more decent footing.
[In my earliest main point, I already explained that the barrier created by the Ark is based purely on Quantum & Dimensional Manipulation through superposition. Now I will expand on that, starting from Volume F, Chapter 4, Episode 1. The students attempt to disconnect Utnapishtim’s Ship because hacking it would reactivate the Ark of Atrahasis’ “dimensional engine.”
Isn’t that already crystal clear? From the very beginning, they were using technology that manipulates dimensions in a limited way, not a mechanism that contains or houses infinite dimensions. To reinforce this point even further, look at Volume F, Chapter 4, Episode 2, where the Ark of Atrahasis is explicitly mapped in a 3-D diagram once its shield is destroyed. This alone confirms its true dimensional structure, it is absolutely impossible for it to be containing Infinite Dimensions. The narrative itself makes the hierarchy unmistakable: the Ark manipulates dimensional states of itself; it does not embody or encompass infinite higher-dimensional reality.]
Maybe I’m missing something, but I’m sure it’s not uncommon within this wiki to have fictional technology or even whole civilization with a visibly limited physical structure containing the ability to manipulate countless dimensions in one way or another. I won’t claim to know how everything goes on VSBW since I’m aware standards change every now and then, but this proof here isn’t much to go off of, either.
[First, it must be emphasized that Aris is never scaled to the full power of the Ark of Atrahasis. She only punctures a portion of its counter multidimensional barrier—and even then, they still require Utnapishtim’s Ship to completely break through the shield. Yes, Aris is the members of the Nameless God/Chroma. She draws on a power source that operates under the same fundamental conditions as the Ark of Atrahasis, which is why she can breach its barrier at all. But even that is not something she accomplishes independently; she uses the Key from Chroma to do so. Aris’ feat of piercing the multidimensional barrier with the Sword of Light (Volume F, Chapter 3, Episode 12) explicitly notes that the only reason the barrier is penetrable is because its superposition is disrupted and cannot be maintained and she can’t do it alone. This is far more accurately categorized as a negation-based feat, not a higher-dimensional destructive capability.]
Aris is labeled having Multiple Selves so “can’t do it alone” is redundant. Also this is NOT just a case of merely breaching the barrier. Even with the quantum superposition abilites, the ship itself is chiefly there to help the crew even get there to a destination literally 75k miles in the sky, so ofc they still need it to even come to contact with the Ark. Aris’ new Ark features overwhelmed the the original one, but it didn’t get them physically closer. Also she was too exhausted afterwards to even do anything else (she almost died iirc) until they “safely” infiltrated the Ark.
[Moreover, Volume F, Chapter 3, Episode 8 spells it out directly:
To break the Ark of Atrahasis’ barrier, they only need to bring Utnapishtim’s Ship into the same quantum superposition. There is no requirement whatsoever for “containing Infinite Dimensions,” which would also be narratively absurd. In fact, this serves as a clear anti-feat demonstrating the true nature and limitations of the barrier.
Given all of the above, the idea that Aris should qualify as High 1-B is not merely unsupported—it directly contradicts the internal logic, mechanics, and explicit exposition of the story.]
I already addressed this, but to add further, Kayoko had made this statement:
If anything has to have a “downgrade”, it’d be the Utnapishtism ship because it was the one making the simulation (and stated multiple times as a weapon meant to oppose the Nameless Gods), but the Ark itself is ACTIVELY described as controlling and processing data, which is already stated to be equivalent to matter in the post Vol F Decagrammaton chapters as I’ve shared before in the previous thread.
I do see that much effort was put into making this thread, but it’s hinging on statements that can also be technically outliners done for the sake of writing aka equivalent to PIS. I can understand why people may note such inconsistencies, but if that was the case, most of the verses on the site would have to go through a lot of similar drastic CRT revisions as well, via this standard. I’ll take back a bit of what I said before..some of these arguments DO have a bit of groundwork to them. If anything, a full cosmology page needs to be done at some point
Also I’m sure it doesn’t matter anymore and that my vote won’t count, but I disagree with said thread.
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This is something understandably of concern. I apologize for that misunderstanding.
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1. “Many of your counterclaims can be considered broad too.”
Huh? the downgrade arguments are not “broad”—they rely on explicit text, internal mechanics, and Wiki rules.
Every claim in mydowngrade thesis is grounded in:
- Direct statements from Volume F, Ch. 3, Ep. 3
- Explicit constraints from Shiroko Terror
- Explicit limitations of the Ark’s replacement mechanism
2. “Infinite universes can still exist even if not all branches actualize.” ??? Incorrect
This directly contradicts what the text tells us.
Shiroko Terror says not every futures world becomes pre-determined.
This is not metaphorical, it is explicit metaphysics of Blue Archive. That means the coin-toss analogy is not multiverse-actualization, but probability-selective branching. Also I have provided earlier, Shiroko Terror explaining there can only be one Shiroko in this world.
Direct implication:
Blue Archive ≠ an infinite actuality model.
It is a Many-Possibilities, One-Actualization cosmology.
The counterargument “subtracting from infinity” is irrelevant because the story itself states the branches not all pre-determined futures exist, meaning the cosmology never reaches infinite actualized realities to begin with.
3. “This is like saying Honkai or Gurren Lagann isn’t hyperversal.” ??? Completely Non-Equivalent
This counterargument fails because:
BA explicitly defines its system differently.
In Volume F Ch. 3 Ep. 3:
- Universes = probability branches
- They do not interact
- They do not all actualize
- They behave like probabilities, not higher dimensions
Proof:
This is not comparable to Hi3 or GL where higher structures are:
- Brane Cosmology layers
- Having a direct superiority to lower dimensions
- Explicit a universal-sized higher dimensions
This is also reinforced by the Ark’s replacement mechanism.
The structure of infinite dimensions is external, and the Ark can only sample them—not contain them.
4. “The explosion isn’t planetary because that would be an outlier.” False
This is debunked directly by story mechanics:
The Ark’s superposition collapse is literally shown to be small-scale.
If the Ark truly contained infinite dimensions, internal collapse would produce effects at least on the level of:
- destroying the entire planet
- ripping spacetime
- eliminating the entire Kivotos structure
The narrative is consistent:
When superposition destabilizes, the Ark behaves like a machine, not like a hyperversal construct.
Calling this “writer not wanting to destroy the planet” is irrelevant, are you ignoring the villains purpose is destroying the world itself???
5. “Rio is smart so her analogy must be literal.” Incorrect
Rio does not say “this is a higher dimension.”
Rio says: “It’s similar.”
Analogy ≠ ontology.
And the text shows the real failure was calculation error:
Operation success rate = 3%
Also: Quantum superposition ≠ infinite dimensionality
Quantum superposition = multiple possible states simultaneously.
It does not imply:
- infinite hierarchy
- higher cardinality
- dimension transcendence
6. “False Sanctum is restricted inside 3D so it’s an outlier.” Incorrect
Blue Archive explicitly quantifies its energy every time.
- False Sanctum can be destroyed in 2 weeks.
- Later, its energy is only 300% stronger.
Also I will report you for that.
- unbounded output
- infinite scaling
- reality-overflow
- structure beyond 3D spacetime
If it “restricted itself,” the story would state this—as other verses explicitly do. BA never implies it.
7. “Other verses have small objects manipulating infinite dimensions.” Irrelevant
VS Wiki requires explicit valid dimensionality, not implied interpretation.
The Ark of Atrahasis is explicitly mapped as:
A 3-D construct
And its engine is:Dimensional manipulation technology, not a vessel containing higher layers
It is manipulating states in superposition—not hosting infinite dimensions.“Other verses do it differently” is not an argument.
VSWiki treats each verse by its own stated mechanics.
8. “Aris has multiple selves, so she can’t be alone.” Misinterpretation
Multiple Selves ≠
capacity to output infinite-dimensional destruction.
Aris’ feat is explicitly:
Barrier negation, not barrier overpowering
And even then:
- the barrier’s superposition was already disrupted
- Aris relied on Chroma’s Key
- the ship was still required to complete the breach
This is not High 1-B destructive capacity; it is mechanical bypass.
Exhaustion = more evidence of limited energy, not infinite-dimensional power.
9. “Quantum superposition means infinity > infinity.” Flatly incorrect
Superposition in Blue Archive is:
- a stabilizing state
- maintained by an engine
- dependent on dimensional computation
- collapsible
- reproducible
- breakable
This is not the metaphysical superposition used in High 1-B or Outerversal cosmologies.
The story treats it as software-level probabilistic stacking, not:
- infinite-dimensional transcendence
- aleph-level cardinal escalation
- embedment of lower universes in higher ones
This is explicitly confirmed in:
Volume F, Ch. 3, Ep. 16
Replacement = copy from another dimension, meaning the infinite structure is external, not contained.No High 1-B criteria are met.
Not even close.
No for this because you assume that Utnapishtim’s Ship should be downgraded. I’ve already explained clearly that the ship has had the same technology from the very beginning; it possesses superposition manipulation. This has been emphasized repeatedly.I already addressed this, but to add further, Kayoko had made this statement:
If anything has to have a “downgrade”, it’d be the Utnapishtism ship because it was the one making the simulation (and stated multiple times as a weapon meant to oppose the Nameless Gods), but the Ark itself is ACTIVELY described as controlling and processing data, which is already stated to be equivalent to matter in the post Vol F Decagrammaton chapters as I’ve shared before in the previous thread.
I do see that much effort was put into making this thread, but it’s hinging on statements that can also be technically outliners done for the sake of writing aka equivalent to PIS. I can understand why people may note such inconsistencies, but if that was the case, most of the verses on the site would have to go through a lot of similar drastic CRT revisions as well, via this standard. I’ll take back a bit of what I said before..some of these arguments DO have a bit of groundwork to them. If anything, a full cosmology page needs to be done at some point
First, in Volume F Chapter 3 Episode 6, it is stated that the ship functions as an anti-ark weapon created stated by Key itself.
Then, in Volume F Chapter 3 Episode 2, it is explicitly explained that the computing device on Utnapishtim’s Ship can be used to create the self-destruct sequences of the Ark of Atrahasis (this also happens in the ending, so the statement is accurate).
So, what you explained is incorrect and baseless.
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I can comment once my work day is over
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He/Him- 3,890
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Blue Archive Tier 2 (maybe higher) stuff, whatever...
I wonder who's the idiot that did that :clueless: The Look Hina gives before soloing Maou Gakuin, Tensura and Ben 10 all at once Anos : Nani ! H1B ! Please have mercy on me
Oblivion_of_the_Endless talks about scaling here, so I can maybe see why they were upgraded. (I don't know anything Blue Archive or the upgrades, I just happened upon this thread).
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I have checked it, and it's not what he who proposed originally in his CRT. And the scaling itself doesn't explicitly stated to every students. Also the justification in the profiles are "possibly High 1-B"Blue Archive Tier 2 (maybe higher) stuff, whatever...
I wonder who's the idiot that did that :clueless: The Look Hina gives before soloing Maou Gakuin, Tensura and Ben 10 all at once Anos : Nani ! H1B ! Please have mercy on mevsbattles.com
Oblivion_of_the_Endless talks about scaling here, so I can maybe see why they were upgraded. (I don't know anything Blue Archive or the upgrades, I just happened upon this thread).
They're not exist at all. It feels made up.
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I have done report it. Will be waiting for staff input for that regards. Thank you once again for bringing this up.
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I know, I was bringing it up because I can understand why the scaling might've been applied.
I mean, it sounded like it applies to every Student from how it was worded.
Ok?
I don't know anything about the verse, so ok, I guess.
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Heyo, I helped with the profiles, so my opinion is this:
So I think H1B should stay only for the ark (the chroma and higher ups are not included as th CRT is non existent). So the ones who scale directly to the ark should stay H1B.
About the possibly range, I personally think it’s fine, but I have no problem with removing it, I’ll wait for the staff members tho.
So I think H1B should stay only for the ark (the chroma and higher ups are not included as th CRT is non existent). So the ones who scale directly to the ark should stay H1B.
About the possibly range, I personally think it’s fine, but I have no problem with removing it, I’ll wait for the staff members tho.
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Sure but are these really antifeats or outliners? When and where do such similar statements count as assumptions or direct lore statements? Also it would later turn out that Shiroko Terror was likely referring to Phrenapates, not the current Sensei
Again, you need to prove why subtracting from infinity with the finite number of "undetermined branches" makes it no longer infinity.
Note these words by the Student Council President...this was in the prologue to the entire story, but shows up again within Vol F Chapter 3, right before Utna's failure...soon after this part, we get a bunch of these (depressing and horrifying) images of countless alternate outcomes BASED on those choices.
From the visible nuances of how banged up the President looked, it's clear that these images are from alternate possibilities that DID happen and why the story had started in the first place. There's either further evidence with Vol 1 Chapter 3, when Sensei was whisked away into another timeline where he had arrived earlier and had befriended Yume (currently dead in the main timeline) and a younger Hoshino.
Already stated previously why it's not just a theory, it's just only Sensei, Student Council President, and as of recently, Aris and Key in the ex. Decagrammaton chapters, being aware of these countless timelines/possibilities.
The plot twist is that the antagonist of Vol F was that Phrenapates was the Sensei from another timeline where Shiroko Terror was first born. Which correlates to this.
Phrenapates is then defeated, which effectively nullifies whatever widespread massive nuke that would be theoretically possible, because they explicitly took all the Ark's energy within themselves on purpose, trusting that the students and Sensei from the main timeline would stop them.
As for the evidence with Hi3 and GL....okay, but when do we draw a line with exactly how much proof is needed? I only brought it up as an example, not a means of degradation.
Good point, but she had already explicitly mentioned "a new axis WITHIN the multidimensionality" previously, as was already shown in that prior thread.
Good point, but it would have to correlate in whether or not the supplier of the energy itself is only 3D. It was already brought up in that previous CRT, but Himari literally said:
"The Sanctums can be recreated as many times as the infinite number of dimensions that exist in the universe... Is that right?"
So yea, a case CAN be made for removing the students upscaling, but would the previous scaling be justified even though the energy gave a clear enpowerment, or can it be reasonably reworked to another more reasonable tier?
Gematria has displayed more knowledge than Rio, and Black Suit stated this:
From normal perception it may be just a normal 3D structure with merely hi-tech sci fi technology, but what Black Suit, Golconde, and Maestro say here, there's reason to doubt that otherwise. I don't think this is merely flowery language, either, with the way they're constantly observing and researching Kivotos as a whole canonically. The Ark isn't just something of physical material, according to them, but an abstraction.
Your source to claim it's just "Barrier Negation" doesn't add up. It only says Aris needs Key to help recreate the Ark. Did you have the wrong source? Also no, the superposition of the Multidimensional Barrier was NOT disrupted, it merely shifted in response to Utnapishtim's attempt at inflirtation.
"Aris relied on Chroma's Key"
Incorrect. In fact using one of your sources as proof, the Chroma is not acknowledged as being directly affliated with the Princess by any means
"Exhaustion = more evidence of limited energy, not infinite-dimensional power."
Aris herself is still 3D + the Utnapishtim ship was actively trying to kill her. Later on, when the ship took off, it had initially harmed Sensei instead, and when they were temporarily for the count, Aris was essentially unprotected when she was creating her "miracle", cause she was directly using Utna's data to initiate it. Of course she'd be exhausted and even bordering near death.
On another note, regarding dura based on Ark feat, Aris/Key was previously going to manifest the Ark back in Volume 2. There's also that vision of one of those other possibilities where Aris caused destruction with that version of the Ark as she was originally purposed to do so, there's no reason to think the current her would be unable to. Another note, Utna wasn't even alluded to here at the time. Forget theoretically, she CAN make another Ark at will, according to the logic presented (if Key wasn't being overly protective), but hey, that'd be boring if every single problem can be solved via Ark creation instead of interaction and cooperation with students, right?
So sure, it wouldn't be within her usual, normal parameters, but it's definitely something she can do within her abilities.
Funny enough, stating the structure being external not only doesn't necessarily debunk its infinite dimensional structure, but I think it may even slightly imply it's a higher existence that cannot be interacted with normally.
Yes, a good portion of Blue Archive's lore IS based around conventional science theories (as I mentioned before in my CRT)
"First, in Volume F Chapter 3 Episode 6, it is stated that the ship functions as an anti-ark weapon created stated by Key itself.
Then, in Volume F Chapter 3 Episode 2, it is explicitly explained that the computing device on Utnapishtim’s Ship can be used to create the self-destruct sequences of the Ark of Atrahasis (this also happens in the ending, so the statement is accurate).
So, what you explained is incorrect and baseless."
I said "if anything", not saying "it should". I'm just throwing it out there, my mistake.
Interesting that the sources provided here were already brought up here to contradict your other points.
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+ why was he reported bruh
SnakesCity
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I've no horse in this race but you might wanna put this under a spoiler tab because this is a lot of big images and it kinda harms the readability of the thread.
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made the pictures smaller now, hope that helps.
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Sure but are these really antifeats or outliners?
Again, you need to prove why subtracting from infinity with the finite number of "undetermined branches" makes it no longer infinity.
Note these words by the Student Council President...this was in the prologue to the entire story, but shows up again within Vol F Chapter 3, right before Utna's failure...soon after this part, we get a bunch of these (depressing and horrifying) images of countless alternate outcomes BASED on those choices.
From the visible nuances of how banged up the President looked, it's clear that these images are from alternate possibilities that DID happen and why the story had started in the first place. There's either further evidence with Vol 1 Chapter 3, when Sensei was whisked away into another timeline where he had arrived earlier and had befriended Yume (currently dead in the main timeline) and a younger Hoshino.
I will avoid using AI to translate again. This will be my last response to you and I will wait for input from staff.
Basically, you are shifting the burden of proof. I have already demonstrated in the thread that each future is not pre-determined and that the “two sides of a coin” narrative to describe the probability of universes still stands. This is also supported by Shiroko Alter’s statement: there may only be one Shiroko in that single world, or serious disruption will occur.
I never denied the existence of parallel worlds. My point is that they are insufficient to qualify as High 1-B. I explained this from the start.
The excerpt you showed does not demonstrate “countless outcomes”; it shows events based on Hoshino becoming Horus. This is clearer when seen from the beginning of the context in Volume 1 Chapter 3 Episode 32.
And in Volume 1 Chapter 3 Episode 33 the phrase “Countless Possibilities” is never mentioned in that contect-- where did you get that? Full context here.
It’s a single narrative thread, not infinite. I checked it directly myself, so what you presented is incorrect.
Next, the evidence you brought comes from Volume EX Chapter 2 Episode 21. Once again, I agree that parallel worlds exist there. However, they are not all actualized. They are described as “probabilities.”Already stated previously why it's not just a theory, it's just only Sensei, Student Council President, and as of recently, Aris and Key in the ex. Decagrammaton chapters, being aware of these countless timelines/possibilities.
And after carefully reviewing the context, it becomes clear that this begins with Key discussing the concept of “fate” for them. Key explicitly states that there are countless possibilitie but that “they have not experienced all of them yet” and this does not imply infinity. Even in the scans you provided, it is only referred to as “nearly infinite,” which in context aligns more with “countless.” Why is this the case? Because in the same moment Key confirms that everything can come to an end; that there is an end which means the set of possibilities is ultimately finite.
To counter this point, I want to emphasize that bringing up the False Sanctums which can be recreated is actually self-defeating for your argument. It means they depend on those structures, not that the Ark itself holds Infinite Dimensions. This is stated explicitly; they rely on multidimensional technology, which is why the damaged Ark of Atrahasis had to hack Utnapishtim’s Ship and make use of its systems. It is also explained that the students of Kivotos can halt their operations by damaging that machinery. This is shown here.The plot twist is that the antagonist of Vol F was that Phrenapates was the Sensei from another timeline where Shiroko Terror was first born. Which correlates to this.
Phrenapates is then defeated, which effectively nullifies whatever widespread massive nuke that would be theoretically possible, because they explicitly took all the Ark's energy within themselves on purpose, trusting that the students and Sensei from the main timeline would stop them.
As for the evidence with Hi3 and GL....okay, but when do we draw a line with exactly how much proof is needed? I only brought it up as an example, not a means of degradation.
Good point, but she had already explicitly mentioned "a new axis WITHIN the multidimensionality" previously, as was already shown in that prior thread.
Good point, but it would have to correlate in whether or not the supplier of the energy itself is only 3D. It was already brought up in that previous CRT, but Himari literally said:
"The Sanctums can be recreated as many times as the infinite number of dimensions that exist in the universe... Is that right?"
So yea, a case CAN be made for removing the students upscaling, but would the previous scaling be justified even though the energy gave a clear enpowerment, or can it be reasonably reworked to another more reasonable tier?
And also here, when they completely prevent the Ark of Atrahasis from hacking.
As for the “new axis” point, it still correlates directly with the numerical calculation value. Himari herself openly states that their plan failed because the Ark of Atrahasis altered the “value” (their computational parameters), making everything inaccurate.
The evidence I’m referring to comes from Volume EX Chapter 2 Episode 11, with the full context here.
So my point remains solid. Please don’t keep cutting context and evidence, that’s a bit unfair, you know?
Those scans are from a completely different context. Look, you can’t fool me here. When they talk about “all mystery,” it does not refer to encompassing all dimensions. It refers to the nature of Chroma itself, which consumes “mystery” as chaotic light.Gematria has displayed more knowledge than Rio, and Black Suit stated this:
From normal perception it may be just a normal 3D structure with merely hi-tech sci fi technology, but what Black Suit, Golconde, and Maestro say here, there's reason to doubt that otherwise. I don't think this is merely flowery language, either, with the way they're constantly observing and researching Kivotos as a whole canonically. The Ark isn't just something of physical material, according to them, but an abstraction.
This is already explained thoroughly in Volume F Chapter 2 Episode 1. It has nothing to do with the Ark of Atrahasis “containing every dimension.”
And on top of that, there are multiple anti-feats I already brought up -- which you ignored, didn’t you?
For this point, I really don’t appreciate the way you twisted what I explained. Aris cannot recreate the Ark of Atrahasis at will. She is a member of the Nameless Gods, yes, but what she has is the Key of Chroma, which allows her to access her original power, not to freely manufacture Ark-level constructs.Your source to claim it's just "Barrier Negation" doesn't add up. It only says Aris needs Key to help recreate the Ark. Did you have the wrong source? Also no, the superposition of the Multidimensional Barrier was NOT disrupted, it merely shifted in response to Utnapishtim's attempt at inflirtation.
"Aris relied on Chroma's Key"
Incorrect.
"Exhaustion = more evidence of limited energy, not infinite-dimensional power."
Aris herself is still 3D + the Utnapishtim ship was actively trying to kill her. Later on, when the ship took off, it had initially harmed Sensei instead, and when they were temporarily for the count, Aris was essentially unprotected when she was creating her "miracle", cause she was directly using Utna's data to initiate it.
On another note, regarding dura based on Ark feat, Aris/Key was previously going to manifest the Ark back in Volume 2. There's also that vision of one of those other possibilities where Aris caused destruction with that version of the Ark as she was originally purposed to do so, there's no reason to think the current her would be unable to. Forget theoretically, she CAN make another Ark at will, according to the logic presented (if Key wasn't being overly protective), but hey, that'd be boring if every single problem can be solved via Ark creation instead of interaction and cooperation with students, right?
And regarding the scene you cited where Key says Utnapishtim’s Ship is “actively killing her,” come on, show the scene after that instead of manipulating the context. She says that because Utnapishtim’s Ship functions as an anti-Ark weapon. In reality, as revealed in Volume F Chapter 3 Episode 12, Key and Aris actually help Utnapishtim’s Ship succeed in its program and launch according to its protocol.
Aris even collapses afterward. And honestly, it’s strange, throughout this whole discussion, you still haven’t provided any solid evidence that the barrier houses a High 1-B structure. So basing your argument solely on Aris damaging the barrier doesn’t prove anything; it doesn’t qualify her or the barrier as High 1-B in any way.
I already debunked that. Bringing those scans up again only shows that you didn’t read my entire thread. Please read it carefully. What they describe points to a superposition state, nothing more. To break through it, you do not need a “higher-dimensional existence,” because in the very same scene it is stated that they simply require technology capable of matching the superposition values, something I have already cited numerous times in this thread.So sure, it wouldn't be within her usual, normal parameters, but it's definitely something she can do within her abilities.
Funny enough, stating the structure being external not only doesn't necessarily debunk its infinite dimensional structure, but I think it may even slightly imply it's a higher existence that cannot be interacted with normally.
Yes, a good portion of Blue Archive's lore IS based around conventional science theories (as I mentioned before in my CRT)
So why are you still pushing an interpretation that has already been debunked repeatedly?
OK, which proves my point now.
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Here's the summary so far:
1. Ark was never house any Infinite Dimensions. Those who disagree somehow ignoring the scans that blatantly mention the Ark of Atrahasis needs to repair their dimensional engine so they can use superposition again. And they literally use a 3-D diagram. It's so blantant for it's dimensionality. The Ark is not a High 1-B construct.
2. I am also very surprised by those who try to shift the burden of proof repeatedly. I mean, saying I have to prove the structure is not Infinite when I've already proven it isn't so many times? Ain't you guys should be the one who proves it's infinite? I've been proving it's based on probability and not every of them materialized. The structures are nowhere High 1-B at all. Especially I've prove it once again, there's an ending to those countless possiblities.
3. Once again, there's no dimensional superiority that fits our criteria. And what bothers me the most... They literally comparing to Guren Lagann... Smh.
1. Ark was never house any Infinite Dimensions. Those who disagree somehow ignoring the scans that blatantly mention the Ark of Atrahasis needs to repair their dimensional engine so they can use superposition again. And they literally use a 3-D diagram. It's so blantant for it's dimensionality. The Ark is not a High 1-B construct.
2. I am also very surprised by those who try to shift the burden of proof repeatedly. I mean, saying I have to prove the structure is not Infinite when I've already proven it isn't so many times? Ain't you guys should be the one who proves it's infinite? I've been proving it's based on probability and not every of them materialized. The structures are nowhere High 1-B at all. Especially I've prove it once again, there's an ending to those countless possiblities.
3. Once again, there's no dimensional superiority that fits our criteria. And what bothers me the most... They literally comparing to Guren Lagann... Smh.
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AlipheeseXIV
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Not true at all, the wiki has for a very long time now, accepted that characters do not need to cause destructive feats on the level of their AP, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand said forces due to fiction very commonly not following the principle of conservation of energy. It's literally like the first thing on the AP page so this is a completely pointless argument.
Them being described as probabilities does not in any way, shape, or form support your argument, it's just them describing the worlds as what they quite literally are in accordance to MWI.
What? Why do you think everything coming to an end means it's an anti feat that the set of possibilities is finite and not infinite? That literally doesn't mean anything by itself.
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''infinte dimensional'' and ''planet on the sentence is wild lmao.
agree an aliphesse
AlipheeseXIV
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Fr bro, imagine if the wiki actually was strict about standards pertaining to conservation of energy despite fiction being so inconsistent with it. Every verse on this site from tier 0 to tier 11 would be cooked lmfao.
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It's an absurd claim to say this. The whole story of Final Story is about Phrenepates and Shiroko Terror trying to destroy the main world. Why the self-destruction of Ark of Atrahasis doesn't do anything destructive? Absurds and contradictive. At this point, you guys just defending it for the sake of it only
Ignoring the main story and start making many baseless assumptions.
You definitely need to take the intention of character seriously. They've been stated multiple times trying to destroy the world.
Because it's called; countless; exemplified by two sides of a coin only one side that will become the truth; and it's been proven over and over again.
You guys who defend this definitely need to stop defending absurd claims. They're not really even 2-A to begin with. The best we knew, there's atleast countless possibilities so far and multiple timelines.
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Can the OP please not use obviously AI to answer to argument (Pointing the large reply one with a lot of obviously bolded parts that is common for Copilot and such AI)
It is clearly flawed, and responding to it just to point out the error of the AI is honestly not helpful, especially when the AI cannot fully grasp the tiering system of the wiki currently.
It is clearly flawed, and responding to it just to point out the error of the AI is honestly not helpful, especially when the AI cannot fully grasp the tiering system of the wiki currently.
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Already fix this mistake and I only use AI for translating my original text. You can definitely see I write it myself when I try to reply again from @Dragopentling
And please don't framing me as if I use AI to write all of these lol. I can show you my process in writing them originally from my native languages. The AI only helping me to translate stuff. And I don't use AI to collect scans or whatsoever, so claiming that kinda belittle the true argument intentions here.
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