Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Discussion Thread 20

[K'rimuru]

I have a question, why not mention the promised land ?

It could easily be scaled to 1-A, and also scaled to post-creation Veldanava and AIO 1-A, and this might help for future scaling of cosmology to higher infinities.

(It seemed strange to me that there weren't even any trials (unless there were, but I'm not aware of it), so why not try/try again ?)

 

[Mizuki67]

I have a question, why not mention the promised land ?

It could easily be scaled to 1-A, and also scaled to post-creation Veldanava and AIO 1-A, and this might help for future scaling of cosmology to higher infinities.

(It seemed strange to me that there weren't even any trials (unless there were, but I'm not aware of it), so why not try/try again ?)

What?
Bro we barely know what it is

 

[K'rimuru]

What?
Bro we barely know what it is

So what ?

 

[Ultimuru]

So what ?

We can't bring as an argument something that was mentioned 2 or 3 times. Let alone properly scale it. Better way to get Tensura to 1-A is via BDE3 for spiritual worlds or Great Spirits scaling.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Hey @Astral_Trinity439, do we have any cases where resistance or tolerance types have been bypassed or explicitly stated that it can be bypassed?

Hmm. Resist Melee can reduce the damage taken but not all of it, while Physical attack null can cancel it all.

Received. You have acquired Cancel Pain, which interrupts the creation of pain. Your Resist Melee Attack has reduced the amount of damage taken. The amount of damage your body has incurred is ten percent. The intrinsic slime skill Self-Regeneration has taken effect. Would you like to support it with your Predator unique skill?

And we have this blatant explanation:

I didn’t have to worry about breathing, of course, and my Resist Temperature tolerance would take care of me anyway. For anyone else, though, it was a death sentence. In a way, it was a relief. Without a body that just happened to be so adaptable to Ifrit’s attacks, my chances of victory would have been pretty slim.

Still, this was another overpowered skill, and I’d need to deliberate over it a bit more. Shizu had a Cancel Flame Attack tolerance, perhaps a side effect of merging with Ifrit. This kept her safe from fire strikes or extremely hot environments—a bit like my Resist Temperature, except without the cold protection, although it offered even more insulation against heat. Cancel must have been a higher level than Resist in this hierarchy, and considering Resist Temperature was already an upgraded tolerance, Cancel Flame Attack must’ve provided a fantastic amount of protection.

I'll find more tomorrow. Time to sleep now

That's what I said there? I only talked about a personality reset and not memory.

Ah, alright. The scan said memory so I thought you'd be including that too.

Well, spiritual lifeforms are generally able to ressurect from soul destruction, but cannot from conceptual destruction (unlike TD). Primordial demons are said to be able to ressurect after core destruction, contrary to other demons, and in the same way as TD, except for the personality. So basically TD can ressurect from Conceptual Self destruction, contrary to other SL who can ressurect from soul destruction, but not concept and who are also not able to ressurect from core destruction, as it is a specific trait of PD. With all that, I think it's pretty safe to assume that Core is also the concept. Maybe, maybe, you can argue that the concept is the Astral Body (due to magicule stuff and astral bind actually affecting the body, soul etc

Ah, I forgot to add a key word difference here.
"Resurrection" and "regeneration" are different. Like Veldora's said it many times that Heart Core destruction is equal to "Death" for him (because he gets a personality reset), yet he also implied that having one's conceptual self destroyed is NOT "Death" for him either.

So if you equate Heart Core to conceptual self, you'd be contradicting what a true dragon has described as their "death".

Astral body is more so "Aether", and so are Magicules. An attack that destroys all monsters (kanji referring specificaly to beings of demonic alignment/Magicules) is called "Aether Break".

At least that's what we can use as an equalizer in cross verse battles.

That's Fuse for you

Humu

I have a question, why not mention the promised land ?

It's the All-One/Nirvana yada yada

Fuse is pretty clear when it comes to showing he wants the All-One to be the Ultimate Reality

 

[AlexSamDen]

Ah, I forgot to add a key word difference here.
"Resurrection" and "regeneration" are different. Like Veldora's said it many times that Heart Core destruction is equal to "Death" for him (because he gets a personality reset), yet he also implied that having one's conceptual self destroyed is NOT "Death" for him either.

So if you equate Heart Core to conceptual self, you'd be contradicting what a true dragon has described as their "death".

Astral body is more so "Aether", and so are Magicules. An attack that destroys all monsters (kanji referring specificaly to beings of demonic alignment/Magicules) is called "Aether Break".

We don't really know what aether means in-verse, with all the GS stuff and us going for ND it is somewhat sensible to give it CM. Other than that, any ideas what the conceptual self is? It's deffo not soul, as I already explained, but we don't have that much aspects of self to set it to either

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

bro what can Rimuru do against Kaneki Ken from Tokyo Ghoul lol Kaneki can heal bro

Kaneki > Rimuru no diff.

 

[Ultimuru]

bro what can Rimuru do against Kaneki Ken from Tokyo Ghoul lol Kaneki can heal bro

Kaneki > Rimuru no diff.

HE CAN DO WHAT? HELL NAH RIMURU IS FINISHED

 

[Sebas-S.P-san]

bro what can Rimuru do against Kaneki Ken from Tokyo Ghoul lol Kaneki can heal bro

Kaneki > Rimuru no diff.

A little humor here hasn't hurt

 

[Violatas]

So, just caught up on the manga for the main story. Absolute peak . It also improves on some stuff compared to the LN imo. Like, Rimuru and Shizu interacting with each other more before Ifrit took over her. In the LN they didn't even get that chance. Pretty sure they only exchanged words there when she was literally dying.

My journey of going through everything canon to the LN continuity draws closerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

We don't really know what aether means in-verse, with all the GS stuff and us going for ND it is somewhat sensible to give it CM.

Aether = Magicules
Er already know what Magicules are, and we got an indirect name-drop of it being Aether.

Other than that, any ideas what the conceptual self is? It's deffo not soul, as I already explained, but we don't have that much aspects of self to set it to either

I still think it's the soul for the sake reason I explained. It's called the true essence/quality of life too.

So, just caught up on the manga for the main story. Absolute peak . It also improves on some stuff compared to the LN imo. Like, Rimuru and Shizu interacting with each other more before Ifrit took over her. In the LN they didn't even get that chance. Pretty sure they only exchanged words there when she was literally dying.

My journey of going through everything canon to the LN continuity draws closerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Manga also shows us Diablo actually interacting with the Demoness trio, which is goated (that kick to Carrera's face was personal fr )

 

[AlexSamDen]

Aether = Magicules
Er already know what Magicules are, and we got an indirect name-drop of it being Aether.

Wasn't there an idea of defining magicules as CM somewhere? Maybe capitalise on this? Astral body seems really important for it to be just magicules without anything else attached to it

I still think it's the soul for the sake reason I explained.

And it kinda contradicts statements in the novel?

It's called the true essence/quality of life too.

The soul or the conceptual self?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Wasn't there an idea of defining magicules as CM somewhere? Maybe capitalise on this? Astral body seems really important for it to be just magicules without anything else attached to it

It's that Rimuru was capable of generating his own magic aura on a conceptual level, but I'm not sure if that's enough to conclude Magicules are conceptual themselves.

Astral body is, all in all, made of Magicules (at least for "monsters" [all non-human life]). Magicules themselves are fundamental and define the existence of spiritual lifeforms. But the word "define" isn't enough to conclude to a specific aspect (insofar as that practically any fundamental aspect does define a being on said level).

On the other hand, that becomes trickly in cross-verse situations since we wouldn't have anything to equate the spiritual body to. So we equate it to Aether based on the namesdrop.

And it kinda contradicts statements in the novel?

Not really, if you look at the broader concept and the difference between Death (and thus resurrection afterwards) and Regeneration (without actually dying).

The soul or the conceptual self?

Soul. Both are the same though, as I said.

 

[AlexSamDen]

It's that Rimuru was capable of generating his own magic aura on a conceptual level, but I'm not sure if that's enough to conclude Magicules are conceptual themselves.

Astral body is, all in all, made of Magicules (at least for "monsters" [all non-human life]). Magicules themselves are fundamental and define the existence of spiritual lifeforms. But the word "define" isn't enough to conclude to a specific aspect (insofar as that practically any fundamental aspect does define a being on said level).

Then why is restraining AB restraints the creature, why Twilight managed to survive as a AB? Like, we don't give AB nearly as much credit as it should be, so I'm kinda trying to guess what fundamental we can give to it

Not really, if you look at the broader concept and the difference between Death (and thus resurrection afterwards) and Regeneration (without actually dying).

Soul. Both are the same though, as I said.

So, as I'm guessing here, you are preparing to upgrade SL regen to Mid-Godly and ressurection to High-Godly (Conceptual)?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Then why is restraining AB restraints the creature, why Twilight managed to survive as a AB? Like, we don't give AB nearly as much credit as it should be, so I'm kinda trying to guess what fundamental we can give to it

None of this goes against what I said about Astral body being "Aether" tho?

So, as I'm guessing here, you are preparing to upgrade SL regen to Mid-Godly and ressurection to High-Godly (Conceptual)?

Regen idk, I'm not sure if regenerating from mind alone is MGR or not if Soul in-verse is conceptual.

And I'm also not sure how we'd treat the Astral body there. Will regenerating both astral body AND spiritual body (along with PB) also give HGR? (Since soul is the conceptual aspect so it doesn't count as MGR, while astral body is another fundamental aspect (i.e., Aether).

Though I've asked these questions to Agnaa and Fine and the responses were positive so far.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Anyhow

Does anyone know which CRT Rimuru's telekinesis was accepted in?
I'm trying to find that scene where he lifts the honey gar, but the profile has no scan

 

[AlexSamDen]

None of this goes against what I said about Astral body being "Aether" tho?

But what aspect is Aether by wiki standards?

Regen idk, I'm not sure if regenerating from mind alone is MGR or not if Soul in-verse is conceptual.

What do we actually define as "mind" in verse? Wasn't it that we tied it to soul?

And I'm also not sure how we'd treat the Astral body there. Will regenerating both astral body AND spiritual body (along with PB) also give HGR? (Since soul is the conceptual aspect so it doesn't count as MGR, while astral body is another fundamental aspect (i.e., Aether).

Back to the question what is the mind? Probably not ego, it's more of a personality rather than thought process. Moreover, didn't we have Semi-SLF thinking with soul? That means that mind is in soul

Though I've asked these questions to Agnaa and Fine and the responses were positive so far.

Can you send it here or DM or Discord?

 

[AlexSamDen]

Anyhow

Does anyone know which CRT Rimuru's telekinesis was accepted in?
I'm trying to find that scene where he lifts the honey gar, but the profile has no scan

Wasn't it a panel from manga? Or an anime shot?

 

[AlexSamDen]

Anyhow

Does anyone know which CRT Rimuru's telekinesis was accepted in?
I'm trying to find that scene where he lifts the honey gar, but the profile has no scan

Found it

 

[EJSenpai]

Type 2 if we get some good embodiment statements.

Yes overall we can say:

-Milim's high godly needs to go

-The reasoning for power null must change

-The reasoning for her EE must change

-She should have layered EE resistance as well as layered EE

-The unconventional resistance to cm and info manip needs to go

And probably lots of other stuff.

Not to mention the typos on her profile and the regeneration negation. She didn't negate charybdis regen it just couldn't keep up with the damage not to mention Star particles are stated to surpass spiritrons

 

[EJSenpai]

There are further hierarchies between Lesser and Greater Demons based on age, experience and Magicules amount.

It is specific to Greater Demons, in fact, if you mean the V17 one:

But that's, in a sense, because Demons have the highest desire to live, they're the incarnation of desire. And as far as I recall, Veldora has said it many times in the journal that Ifrit's ego is rather weak as he only follows Leon's orders (initially).

True Dragons also retain their memories, if you're gonna talk about that, even if their heart core is destroyed and they get a personality reset still.

I think it's because the Heart Core and Ego is formles and forever changing, as described in V22. That's why he had to synchronize information between his Parallel Existences.

Btw thanks for helping me clear up the void stuff Astral it was just confusing tbh especially in Japanese

 

[PizzaDante67]

A little humor here hasn't hurt

Humor? Ken no diffs that planetary fodder

 

[K'rimuru]

Humor? Ken no diffs that planetary fodder

Star

 

[PizzaDante67]

Star

nah Planetary. i am fully convinced that he doesnt get past that fr.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

But what aspect is Aether by wiki standards?

It's its own aspect.
Check the Metaphysics page.
Also, Aether is pretty popular in fiction, at least those based on Cultivation and stuff, so equalizing it is easier.

What do we actually define as "mind" in verse? Wasn't it that we tied it to soul?

The Spiritual body (virtual memory/mind).

Back to the question what is the mind? Probably not ego, it's more of a personality rather than thought process. Moreover, didn't we have Semi-SLF thinking with soul? That means that mind is in soul

The Ego is pure consciousness (I think therefore I am), so if a character is conscious after his soul/AB/Heart core is destroyed, we know his Ego is still left.

Not semi SLFs. They can only think with their spiritual body. SLFs can think with their astral body while some high tiered SLFs can think with their Soul. True Dragons, Primals, and those closely associated with the seven colors can think with their heart core. And Twilight can think and observe with their Ego alone. Rimuru in a sense can survive with his ego alone as it's hinted to be safeguarded inside Raphael instead but he can't think in that state alone (at least in the earlier volumes) and hasn't shown to do so in the current ones.

Can you send it here or DM or Discord?

Discord seems fine. Quoting every line takes too much time.

Found it

Finally!
I thought someone might have just added it as is since it was added before 2020 and there was no CRT link in the history log of the profile for it.

Btw thanks for helping me clear up the void stuff Astral it was just confusing tbh especially in Japanese

No probs.

 

[AlexSamDen]

It's its own aspect.
Check the Metaphysics page.
Also, Aether is pretty popular in fiction, at least those based on Cultivation and stuff, so equalizing it is easier.

The page talks how such aspects need to be defined using wikinterminology

The Spiritual body (virtual memory/mind).

The Ego is pure consciousness (I think therefore I am), so if a character is conscious after his soul/AB/Heart core is destroyed, we know his Ego is still left.

Not semi SLFs. They can only think with their spiritual body. SLFs can think with their astral body while some high tiered SLFs can think with their Soul. True Dragons, Primals, and those closely associated with the seven colors can think with their heart core. And Twilight can think and observe with their Ego alone. Rimuru in a sense can survive with his ego alone as it's hinted to be safeguarded inside Raphael instead but he can't think in that state alone (at least in the earlier volumes) and hasn't shown to do so in the current ones.

So why do you think the mind isn't destroyed? It's the outer layer of soul

Finally!
I thought someone might have just added it as is since it was added before 2020 and there was no CRT link in the history log of the profile for it.

Searched every CRT with the word Telepathy in OP

 

[PrimeHydra64]

I mean we could possibly get history or time as an aspect of existence but we have like one ability which allows a person to manipulate it and we have like 6 sentences worth of information about it. Maybe Volume 23 or the New Vacation extra story will add stuff about it.

時間厚もそのままに、シズの仮面はそこに在りました。
つまりは、ここが起点にして終点。
With the thickness of time still intact, Shizu’s mask was there.
In other words, this was both the starting point and the end point.

それこそ、時間厚は無限に等しく、
それはつまり、この世にあり得べからざる物体と言っても過言ではありませんでした。
Indeed, the thickness of time is equally infinite,
and that is to say, it would not be an exaggeration to call it an object that could not possibly exist in this world.

つまりは、その時点での時間厚の蓄積量は、 万物不変の絶対値であるべきなのです。
In other words, the amount of accumulated temporal thickness at that point should be an absolute value unchanging for all things.

しかし、クロエが重ねた経験年数は、数字では語れない時間厚となってその強さに反映されていた。
However, the years of experience Chloe had accumulated became a thickness of time that couldn’t be expressed in numbers, and it was reflected in her strength.

ならば仕方なしと、時間厚で圧殺する最強奥義〝[刻運絶命][フェイタルロスト]〟を用いたのだが──これが最悪だった。
With no other choice, he used the ultimate technique that crushes with the thickness of time, ‘[刻運絶命][Fatal Lost]’ — but this turned out to be the worst possible move.

この技は、対象の時間流を加速させて時の最果てまで誘うという、生ある者にとって抗いようのない究極奥義だ。
This technique is the ultimate skill that irresistibly accelerates the target’s flow of time, leading them to the very end of time — a technique that living beings cannot resist.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

The page talks how such aspects need to be defined using wikinterminology

Wiki terminology isn't limited to "Info, history, narrative/plot, and concept" lol

So why do you think the mind isn't destroyed? It's the outer layer of soul

TenSura puts a difference between "Mind" and "Consciousness" to be precise. And that makes sense, since that's how we distinguish between regeneration and resurrection.

Take for example, HGR, why do we assume it's "regeneration" and not resurrection even though the mind must be destroyed in HGR (and even MGR)? Because the feat involves the target still being "conscious" in one way or another.

To my understanding, that's how we distinguish between "Isn't fully dead yet, he's self aware and regenerating" and " is fully dead, and is coming back to life".

There are a multitude of other ways to make the distinction ad well, but I think this is one of em.

Searched every CRT with the word Telepathy in OP

How tf does telepathy relate to telekinesis

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I mean we could possibly get history or time as an aspect of existence but we have like one ability which allows a person to manipulate it and we have like 6 sentences worth of information about it. Maybe Volume 23 or the New Vacation extra story will add stuff about it.

We can actually have that, though. But it's more so unconventional Erasure rather than regeneration

Remember that two beings cannot overlap in the same space time continuum at any point in space AND time. Yet Holy Arc isolates the target inside from the target to the point where they don't overlap.

And, while I'm not sure if we can use it in LN, but in the WN reviews, it's basicslly explained that once the being is sealed in the holy coffin, they are erased from history and from everyone's memories. The only beings who can still remember the person isolated inside are Ultimate skill users because they are unbound by the concept of time.

 

[AlexSamDen]

Wiki terminology isn't limited to "Info, history, narrative/plot, and concept" lol

We still need to explain what it is properly and how it would interact cross-verse

TenSura puts a difference between "Mind" and "Consciousness" to be precise. And that makes sense, since that's how we distinguish between regeneration and resurrection.

Take for example, HGR, why do we assume it's "regeneration" and not resurrection even though the mind must be destroyed in HGR (and even MGR)? Because the feat involves the target still being "conscious" in one way or another.

To my understanding, that's how we distinguish between "Isn't fully dead yet, he's self aware and regenerating" and " is fully dead, and is coming back to life".

There are a multitude of other ways to make the distinction ad well, but I think this is one of em.

Maybe ask some staff how do we treat when there is both "mind" and a higher form of conciousness and the former is destroyed. Not sure how it actually works

How tf does telepathy relate to telekinesis

A mixed up, searched telekineses

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

We still need to explain what it is properly

It is either, simple as that.

how it would interact cross-verse

And Aether is its own aspect. Just like how you need info type 2 to interact with souls, you'll need to be able to interact with Aether to interact with Astral body.

Maybe ask some staff how do we treat when there is both "mind" and a higher form of conciousness and the former is destroyed. Not sure how it actually works

Sure.

Though I think you're not getting the main point, we don't necessarily treat "consciousness" (cogito ergo sum) as the Mind if the verse treats them differently.

Thinking with your concept alone or a similar aspect is also common in most examples of HGR.

 

[AlexSamDen]

It is either, simple as that.

And Aether is its own aspect. Just like how you need info type 2 to interact with souls, you'll need to be able to interact with Aether to interact with Astral body.

I don't see a single profile using it like this and a single wiki page that establishes what it is

Though I think you're not getting the main point, we don't necessarily treat "consciousness" (cogito ergo sum) as the Mind if the verse treats them differently.

Thinking with your concept alone or a similar aspect is also common in most examples of HGR.

Probably we're fine to go with it then, not sure why you then even doubted it then in the first place

 

[Mizuki67]

We can't bring as an argument something that was mentioned 2 or 3 times. Let alone properly scale it. Better way to get Tensura to 1-A is via BDE3 for spiritual worlds or Great Spirits scaling.

Spiritual worlds are not all that
This is all we got
時間とは、完全(むげん)から虚無(ゼロ)へと集束する現象であり、その到達点は“全なる一”というのが私の見解。

 

[PrimeHydra64]

Spiritual worlds are not all that
This is all we got
時間とは、完全(むげん)から虚無(ゼロ)へと集束する現象であり、その到達点は“全なる一”というのが私の見解。

Oh yeah we have that translated by seiji now:
My opinion is that time is a phenomenon that tends from completeness (Infinity) to nothingness (Zero), and that endpoint is the "All-in-One".

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I don't see a single profile using it like this and a single wiki page that establishes what it is

Have you read Chinese character pages?
And this

Summary​

The term Metaphysical Aspects refers to aspects of existence which are not part of the physical world, or spiritual aspects like mind or soul, but define or govern the world from the background. Examples include laws, causality, information, concepts, plot and also things our wiki does not list separately, such as some verses' versions of names, Dao, essence, ether etc.

not sure why you then even doubted it then in the first place

??

 

[AlexSamDen]

Have you read Chinese character pages?

Some. Didn't find one yet

And this

"Doesn't list separately" and "versions of names" means that we are still expected to define it using wiki terminology, as a part of the system

??

This one

Regen idk, I'm not sure if regenerating from mind alone is MGR or not if Soul in-verse is conceptual

Meaning that you say that when the soul is destroyed, the mind isn't

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Astral Trinity439/Ultimate Skill Resistances

all-fiction-battles.fandom.com

Took a while but PEAK is finally finished
@PrimeHydra64 @AstraphelNoctis4 @Emils_tempest @Ultimuru

 

[K'rimuru]

Astral Trinity439/Ultimate Skill Resistances

all-fiction-battles.fandom.com

Took a while but PEAK is finally finished
@PrimeHydra64 @AstraphelNoctis4 @Emils_tempest @Ultimuru

Peak

When do you plan to start a discussion thread on this topic ?

 

[AstraphelNoctis4]

Astral Trinity439/Ultimate Skill Resistances

all-fiction-battles.fandom.com

Took a while but PEAK is finally finished
@PrimeHydra64 @AstraphelNoctis4 @Emils_tempest @Ultimuru

Good. Although I couldn't see the scan (for the low connection problem at night), Deviant should have Fissionism instead of Deconstruction, so it should be resistance to Fissionism. For Ravenous, that should be removed as it’s Corrosion Inducement instead of Death Manipulation (doesn’t qualify according to this wiki). Void Manipulation, honestly, instead of Resistance, should be Nonexistent Eraser, since it’s not that they are resisting, but rather countering. But you can correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[PrimeHydra64]

Astral Trinity439/Ultimate Skill Resistances

all-fiction-battles.fandom.com

Took a while but PEAK is finally finished
@PrimeHydra64 @AstraphelNoctis4 @Emils_tempest @Ultimuru

W