BuffyVerse CRT: At least 1-C Upgrade and Immeasurable Speed Upgrade

[ByArrow]

Tier Upgrade​

Only Twilight keys will be upgraded to this level.

• After being empowered by the universe, Buffy and Angel reach to the next step on the metaphysical ladder.
• They left the plane of existence where multiverse and dimensions exist.
  • This plane of existence also contains a pocket universe, which is an infinite extra-dimensional space
    • This means that this pocket universe is a Low 1-C structure, and therefore the lower plane is Low 1-C.
• They "Ascended" into new reality. This new reality is a higher plane.
• They defined the plane where multiverse and dimensions exist as the Lower Plane.
• Spike defined this new reality, as higher dimension.
• Spike said Buffy (and therefore Angel) ascended. And he said they created this new reality.
• Spike defined the new reality as a higher reality.
• Twilight tells Angel "you can't the universe you crated".
  • Here, when he says “Universe,” he is referring to the new reality mentioned earlier.
• And Buffy and Angel can manipulate this dimension entirely.

So, after being empowered by the universe, Buffy and Angel reached the next step on the metaphysical ladder, they left the plane of existence where universes, dimensions, and an infinite extra-dimensional pocket universe exist, defining this plane as a lower plane, created a new reality that is a higher plane, a higher reality, ascended into this reality, and can entirely control this reality.

I think this is sufficient for them to be 1-C.

Immeasurable Speed​

Only Twilight keys will be upgraded to this level.

• Buffy and Angel were moving so fast physically during *** that they started traveling through time with their sheer speed.
  • Also, They created a ripple that reached into the past during ***.

Tier Upgrade​

• Those in agreement: @Thunderman101 (with 1-C)
• Those in disagreement: @KaramcaS, @Maniaunavailable
• Those yet to form an opinion: @JayaReal

Immeasurable Speed​

• Those in agreement: @KaramcaS , @JayaReal, @Thunderman101
• Those in disagreement:
• Those yet to form an opinion:

 

[KaramcaS]

I agree with Imme Speed but I dont think thats a Outerversal feat, its more like "likely/possibly Low 1-C"

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

The death battle resurrected Buffy lol

 

[ByArrow]

I agree with Imme Speed but I dont think thats a Outerversal feat, its more like "likely/possibly Low 1-C"

As I said, the new reality they have ascended to is a reality above the plane of existence that encompasses an infinite extra-dimensional space.

So this new reality exists above dimensions. This makes this dimension at least Low 1-A. At least that's how I understand it.

 

[KaramcaS]

As I said, the new reality they have ascended to is a reality above the plane of existence that encompasses an infinite extra-dimensional space.

Im sure he mean "an infinite sized extra-dimensional space"

So this new reality exists above dimensions. This makes this dimension at least Low 1-A. At least that's how I understand it.

So this new reality exists above dimensions that universe encompass (4-D)

In fact, what I see shows me that there is an extra-dimensional higher realm above the 4-dimensional universe, which means 5-D, but even this is not enough for Low 1-C. That's why I said "likely Low 1-C"

 

[ByArrow]

Im sure he mean "an infinite sized extra-dimensional space"

How? Where did you get the idea that he meant that? His statement is quite clear.

So this new reality exists above dimensions that universe encompass (4-D)

In fact, what I see shows me that there is an extra-dimensional higher realm above the 4-dimensional universe, which means 5-D, but even this is not enough for Low 1-C. That's why I said "likely Low 1-C"

Even if you interpret the statement as above, it is still incorrect. If this space is "an infinite sized extra-dimensional space", then the space itself becomes 5D, and the place Buffy and Angel created becomes 6D.

 

[JayaReal]

I agree for Immeasurable speed. For the others, I can't be sure yet, maybe if I have more time I will read them all.

 

[YungManzi]

I’m gonna keep a close eye, but I personally don’t see anything above Low 2-C.

Also the evidence includes stuff from the show and the comics… is there a reason why they’re canon to one another? Genuine question, I’m not familiar with buffy.

 

[ByArrow]

I’m gonna keep a close eye, but I personally don’t see anything above Low 2-C.

Why? It said that it is both a higher reality, a higher dimension, and a higher plane. It said that they left the plane of existence where multiverse and dimensions exist. It said that they reached the next step on the metaphysical ladder and ascended to a higher reality.

Also the evidence includes stuff from the show and the comics… is there a reason why they’re canon to one another? Genuine question, I’m not familiar with buffy.

Both the creator of the series and the writer of the comic books, along with a few others, said that the comic books are canon. And the use of comic books had been accepted in the previous CRT.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Infinite Extra-Dimensional space
just means the extra-dimensional space is infinite.
else, it would be called an Infinite Extra dimension of space if it's referring to literally infinite-dimensional axis

 

[KaramcaS]

a higher reality, a higher dimension, and a higher plane. It said that they left the plane of existence where multiverse and dimensions exist. It said that they reached the next step on the metaphysical ladder and ascended to a higher reality.

Thats not even enough for Low 1-C, even being 5-D is not enough for Low 1-C

 

[ByArrow]

Thats not even enough for Low 1-C, even being 5-D is not enough for Low 1-C

It is enough. To be Low 1-C, you only need to be have an extra dimension or be higher than classic 4 dimensions, or be higher plane and be universal size.

And this new reality was called the universe by reality itself, which is sufficient for acceptance for universal size. And it has many statement that say it is of a higher dimension.

 

[KaramcaS]

To be Low 1-C, you only need to be have an extra dimension or be higher than classic 4 dimensions, or be higher plane and be universal size.

No.
Characters or objects who can significantly affect, create and/or destroy higher-dimensional structures that are one uncountably infinite level above Low 2-C structures. In ordinary distribution, this corresponds to R^5 (5-dimensional real coordinate space).

 

[ByArrow]

No.

Yes

Characters or objects who can significantly affect, create and/or destroy higher-dimensional structures that are one uncountably infinite level above Low 2-C structures. In ordinary distribution, this corresponds to R^5 (5-dimensional real coordinate space).

What I said already fits this.

 

[Random-Helper323]

I have to raise an issue here. The existing Low 2-C feats don't seem to have anything to scale them to Buffy and Angel's physical abilities, and nothing here seems to add any such thing.

 

[ByArrow]

I have to raise an issue here. The existing Low 2-C feats don't seem to have anything to scale them to Buffy and Angel's physical abilities, and nothing here seems to add any such thing.

Buffy and Angel physically created Twilight. If a character physically creates an earthquake, they physically scale to the earthquake's power. The same applies here.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

If am not wrong, isnt beign in a higher dimension than 4D just low complex multiversal?

 

[ByArrow]

If am not wrong, isnt beign in a higher dimension than 4D just low complex multiversal?

You are right. However, the argument here is that Twilight is a higher plane than plane of existence that encompassing an infinite extra-dimensional space, meaning they above infinite-D.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

You are right. However, the argument here is that Twilight is a higher plane than plane of existence that encompassing an infinite extra-dimensional space, meaning they above infinite-D.

just means the extra-dimensional space is infinite. not like its actually infinite-D. This is just low 1C

Edit: tho I agree with kara, the scans here are not sufficent for 5D

 

[ByArrow]

just means the extra-dimensional space is infinite. not like its actually infinite-D. This is just low 1C

Edit: tho I agree with kara, the scans here are not sufficent for 5D

This statement can be interpreted in two ways. I will change OP's suggestion and propose Low 1-A as a "possible" rating.

If interpreted as you say, it still isn't 5D. The lower plane will be 5D, and since Twilight is a reality higher this lower plane, it will be 6D.

And Kara accepts a possible rating. Should I infer from this comment that you also agree with the possible rating?

 

[Maniaunavailable]

This statement can be interpreted in two ways. I will change OP's suggestion and propose Low 1-A as a "possible" rating.

If interpreted as you say, it still isn't 5D. The lower plane will be 5D, and since Twilight is a reality higher this lower plane, it will be 6D.

And Kara accepts a possible rating. Should I infer from this comment that you also agree with the possible rating?

agree with possible then

Quick Edit: I ONLY agree with possible low 1-C, am netutal with the whole low 1-A and 1a

 

[Random-Helper323]

Buffy and Angel physically created Twilight. If a character physically creates an earthquake, they physically scale to the earthquake's power. The same applies here.

First of all, does Twilight's feat even scale to Twilight's physical abilities? Buffy verse magic does not operate on a UES given Willow doesn't physically scale to her own magic. Even when she enhances herself using it she still had more power with spells than strikes.

Second of all, Twilight being born from them as their child isn't the same as causing an earthquake.

 

[Maniaunavailable]

First of all, does Twilight's feat even scale to Twilight's physical abilities? Buffy verse magic does not operate on a UES given Willow doesn't physically scale to her own magic. Even when she enhances herself using it she still had more power with spells than strikes.

Second of all, Twilight being born from them as their child isn't the same as causing an earthquake.

Ok so what I’ve seen with the little knowledge I have on the power system

It sounds more like hax than physicals tbh, this said I could see a possible low 1C range (unless am mistaken and magic is in fact an AP/DC feat)

 

[ByArrow]

First of all, does Twilight's feat even scale to Twilight's physical abilities?

What do you mean? Which Twilight’s feat are you talking about?

Twilight is a dimension, a universe, a reality.

Buffy verse magic does not operate on a UES given Willow doesn't physically scale to her own magic. Even when she enhances herself using it she still had more power with spells than strikes.

There is nothing related to magic here.

Second of all, Twilight being born from them as their child isn't the same as causing an earthquake.

It's the same. They created Twilight by having ***. They created it physically. They didn't use any kind of magic to create Twilight.

If you create an earthquake while having ***, you scale that earthquake.

 

[ByArrow]

It sounds more like hax than physicals tbh, this said I could see a possible low 1C range (unless am mistaken and magic is in fact an AP/DC feat

Buffy don’t use magic.

 

[Random-Helper323]

What do you mean? Which Twilight’s feat are you talking about?

Twilight is a dimension, a universe, a reality.

Twilight is a being as well.

It's the same. They created Twilight by having ***. They created it physically. They didn't use any kind of magic to create Twilight.

Wasn't it a being born from their union rather than made using sheer explosive force? No amount of sheer force will create an entity, and it was some kind of prophesy or ritual to make Twilight by them coming together in that way. That seems more like a magic ritual rather than a sheer force feat.

 

[ByArrow]

Wasn't it a being born from their union rather than made using sheer explosive force?

It was born from their ***.

No amount of sheer force will create an entity,

This is fiction. Even hatred can create entity.

and it was some kind of prophesy or ritual to make Twilight by them coming together in that way.

There is no ritual involved. Yes, there was a prophecy, but it is that Buffy and Angel would give birth to Twilight and bring about the end of the universe.

That seems more like a magic ritual rather than a sheer force feat.

As I said, there was no ritual.

Additionally, Buffy physically created holes in this dimension.

So it scales to their physicality.

 

[Thunderman101]

agree with immes speed, disagree with low 1-a

 

[ByArrow]

agree with immes speed, disagree with low 1-a

What about 1-C?

 

[Thunderman101]

What about at least 1-C?

sure i agree with 1-c

 

[KaramcaS]

Im hardly disagree with the Tier 1 because of its not enough for Tier 1

 

[Random-Helper323]

It was born from their ***.

This is fiction. Even hatred can create entity.

There is no ritual involved. Yes, there was a prophecy, but it is that Buffy and Angel would give birth to Twilight and bring about the end of the universe.

This still sounds like weird verse mechanics rather than something that scales to sheer force to me.

Additionally, Buffy physically created holes in this dimension.

So it scales to their physicality.

Making holes in space isn't the same as creating the whole universe in terms of power.

 

[Hasty12345]

Buffy and Angel were moving so fast physically during *** that they started traveling through time with their sheer speed.

• Also, They created a ripple that reached into the past during ***.

This would be the single best immeasurable speed justification on the wiki and possibly OAT.

 

[ByArrow]

This still sounds like weird verse mechanics rather than something scales to sheer force to me.

Agree to disagree. So far, you've only commented on this feat shouldn't scale to their physicality. What do you think about Tier 1 and Speed upgrades?

 

[ByArrow]

agree with possible then

Quick Edit: I ONLY agree with possible low 1-C, am netutal with the whole low 1-A and 1a

KaramcaS changed his vote on Tier 1. Do you still agree with “possible Low 1-C,” or have you changed your mind too?

 

[Maniaunavailable]

KaramcaS changed his vote on Tier 1. Do you still agree with “possible Low 1-C,” or have you changed your mind too?

put me in disagree with low 1c, it isnt enough

 

[Random-Helper323]

Agree to disagree. So far, you've only commented on this feat shouldn't scale to their physicality. What do you think about Tier 1 and Speed upgrades?

I disagree with using this feat for these two in the first place. This dimension seems to come from their relationship rather than the sheer force of them colliding, otherwise such dimensions could come from them fighting and wouldn't require this. The same applies to the implied time travel scan.

If the two of them were immeasurable in terms of speed and had this speed to travel through time by accident, you'd think Buffy's friends, who watch her fight all the time, might have seen this effect before, instead of being completely stunned when they seem to be shifting from reality while doing this. The effect could have to do with the Twilight dimension rather than sheer speed.

 

[Thunderman101]

so i read over the g1 blog, was wondering if this upgrade would eb applicacble to buffy on the wiki. "
They’ve made reference to an “infinite extradimensional space” that exists as a pocket universe back when Illyria needed to hide her excess power somewhere without killing her. This isn’t the important statement, however, as episodes of Angel have mentions of “Fractal Geometry in 12-Dimensional Space” and they’ve talked about “multi-dimensional superstring theory”, both in reference to higher spatial dimensions. Another Angel episode even has Cordelia becoming a higher being after “outgrowing” this dimension, ascending and “moving on to a new level”, a higher plane that potentially exists in a higher dimensional space. Existing beyond all of this, there is the First Evil, who is a power that “transcends spacetime, reality, and taps into all possible realities and times”, whose essence could not be killed by Hope’s Dagger, instead dispersed across all realities and dimensions.

Now, we cannot exactly scale the Scythe to the First Evil given he transcends existence and hasn’t been harmed by it, only by its own natural opposite. But, what we do know is that Illyria is outright affecting “infinities”, in reference to the multiverse, alongside collapsing “existence”. This would include, to speak “plainly”, an infinite multiverse with 12 higher spatial dimensions at an Old One’s fingertips. Since the Scythe was made to kill Old Ones, this provides a rough power level for the weapon itself."

 

[Thunderman101]

so i read over the g1 blog, was wondering if this upgrade would eb applicacble to buffy on the wiki. "
They’ve made reference to an “infinite extradimensional space” that exists as a pocket universe back when Illyria needed to hide her excess power somewhere without killing her. This isn’t the important statement, however, as episodes of Angel have mentions of “Fractal Geometry in 12-Dimensional Space” and they’ve talked about “multi-dimensional superstring theory”, both in reference to higher spatial dimensions. Another Angel episode even has Cordelia becoming a higher being after “outgrowing” this dimension, ascending and “moving on to a new level”, a higher plane that potentially exists in a higher dimensional space. Existing beyond all of this, there is the First Evil, who is a power that “transcends spacetime, reality, and taps into all possible realities and times”, whose essence could not be killed by Hope’s Dagger, instead dispersed across all realities and dimensions.

Now, we cannot exactly scale the Scythe to the First Evil given he transcends existence and hasn’t been harmed by it, only by its own natural opposite. But, what we do know is that Illyria is outright affecting “infinities”, in reference to the multiverse, alongside collapsing “existence”. This would include, to speak “plainly”, an infinite multiverse with 12 higher spatial dimensions at an Old One’s fingertips. Since the Scythe was made to kill Old Ones, this provides a rough power level for the weapon itself."

 

[ByArrow]

so i read over the g1 blog, was wondering if this upgrade would eb applicacble to buffy on the wiki. "
They’ve made reference to an “infinite extradimensional space” that exists as a pocket universe back when Illyria needed to hide her excess power somewhere without killing her.

This is already written in the OP.

This isn’t the important statement, however, as episodes of Angel have mentions of “Fractal Geometry in 12-Dimensional Space” and they’ve talked about “multi-dimensional superstring theory”, both in reference to higher spatial dimensions.

Unfortunately, none of these provide Tier 1. Because in superstring theory, these extra dimensions are compactified dimensions, and compactified dimensions are insufficient for Tier 1.

But these are more consistent with F-theory, and according to one interpretation of this theory, there are two extra temporal dimensions. But these are really insufficient to say that cosmology actually uses this interpretation of F-theory.

Another Angel episode even has Cordelia becoming a higher being after “outgrowing” this dimension, ascending and “moving on to a new level”, a higher plane that potentially exists in a higher dimensional space.

This is at best +1D.

Existing beyond all of this, there is the First Evil, who is a power that “transcends spacetime, reality, and taps into all possible realities and times”, whose essence could not be killed by Hope’s Dagger, instead dispersed across all realities and dimensions.

These come from sources that have not been verified as canonical. Therefore, their canonicity needs to be verified.

Assuming it is canonical, it can change from 1-C to 1-A depending on how the staff accepts it.

Now, we cannot exactly scale the Scythe to the First Evil given he transcends existence and hasn’t been harmed by it, only by its own natural opposite. But, what we do know is that Illyria is outright affecting “infinities”, in reference to the multiverse, alongside collapsing “existence”. This would include, to speak “plainly”, an infinite multiverse with 12 higher spatial dimensions at an Old One’s fingertips. Since the Scythe was made to kill Old Ones, this provides a rough power level for the weapon itself."

Illyria is no ordinary Old One. She is the most powerful, or if not the most powerful, then one of the most powerful.

And some Old Ones are so weak they would die from a megaton explosion. Therefore, the scythe being made to kill Old Ones is insufficient for scaling it to Illyria.