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(CONCLUDED)Granblue Fantasy Explanation Page CRT

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This is the combined CRT of https://vsbattles.com/threads/granblue-observer-r-f-1-a-crt.179326/ and https://vsbattles.com/threads/granblue-fantasy-the-promised-land-estalucia-low-1-a.183755/
Aimed at updating the Explanation Blog with updated Stories.


To summarize the Changes
Sky Branches3D+TimeLow 2-CUnchanged
Tree of ProvidenceCountless 2-B, likely 6-Dimensional2-B, likely 1-CNewly AddedHas control over timelines and possible futures, even on the Astral Realm
Sky-realmInfinite Multiverse2-ARevisedUpdated from 2-B to 2-A with recent scan
Nexus Labyrinth Dharma5-Dimensional PlaneLow 1-CNewly AddedAn interdimensional space that connects Astral Realm (6D) and Sky-realm (4D)
Dimension of Precipice5-Dimensional PlaneLow 1-CUnchanged
Supernal Realm5-Dimensional PlaneLow 1-CUnchanged
Underworld6-Dimensional Plane1-CNewly AddedThe Next Plane after the Supernal Realm
Astral Realm6-Dimensional Plane1-CUnchanged
Edgeland / Dimensional Boundary7-Dimensional1-CUnchanged
Pandemonium7-Dimensional1-CUnchanged
Ebisu7-Extradimensional RangeUnknownNewly AddedPrimal Beast that can travel between Edgeland and Sky-realm and is capable of even bringing out power from different singularity timelines
Crimson Horizon / Legion Void7-Dimensional1-CUnchanged
Otherworldly Realm / Idea of DeathLow Outerversal / BDE Type 2Low 1-ARevisedIgnores any dimensional barrier as long as Death exists
Divine RealmLow Outerversal / BDE Type 2Low 1-ANewly AddedThe Realm where concepts and ideas like The Idea of Death's unique Metaphysical self exist without physical individuality
Wedges / Orologia8-Dimensional, Low Outerversal / BDE Type 2 True Form1-C, Low 1-A as Divine BeingRevisedAdded Low 1-A for being a Divine Being, but only on their true form
Zurvan's Dimension / Dimensional BorderLow OuterversalLow 1-ANewly AddedCapable of altering every possible world in existence
even those that transcend dimension. More info
EtemenankiLow Outerversal Invulnerability / 8-Dimensional contentsLow 1-ARevisedA structure that encompasses chaos and providence
with a skin-deep
invulnerability. More Info
Singularity Multiverse8-Dimensional / Infinite Stories1-CNewly AddedTimelines that included all the realms of the Story of Singularity. such as Otherworld and wedges
Estalucia / Holy Seat GenesisLow Outerversal / 1 Layer or OuterversalLow 1-A or 1-ARevisedDomain of the Omnipotent, where in the Divine Realm, providence is crafted. More Info
Boundary / Sacred Perch ArabothLow Outerversal / 8 Layer or OuterversalLow 1-A or 1-ARevisedThe throne is what allows those lower than the Omnipotent to control creation. More Info
The OmnipotentLow Outerversal or Outerversal with MonismLow 1-A or 1-ARevisedArgument for low 1-A or 1-A
The Blue WillOuterversal1-ANewly AddedIneffable Genesis
Central Observer of the SkiesOuterversal (R>F)1-ANewly AddedViews Granblue as a story
Argo NavisLow OuterversalLow 1-ANewly AddedA Divine Being older than creation

Alternative Argument for Estalucia and Boundary to be 1-A rather than a layer above the Divine Realm.

Agree (Deonment, Elizhaa, Planck69, Reiner04)
Partial Agreement ()
Agree with 1-A Estalucia (Deonment, Elizhaa, Planck69, Reiner04)
Disagree
Neutral
 
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Agree
But disagree on etermenaki and neutral on ebisu since it's more like 6D than 7D
 
Looks ok. Will character profile changes and hax upgrades as a result of the cosmology upgrade come after this?
 
Looks ok. Will character profile changes and hax upgrades as a result of the cosmology upgrade come after this?
Yes. but mostly for haxes of Gods since they render anything below meaningless
Agree
But disagree on etermenaki and neutral on ebisu since it's more like 6D than 7D
Ebisu could be 6D yeah but it travelled to the Fissure which is something not even Otherworldly entities can reach
Etemenanki will only upgrade the skin-deep defense it has that encompasses Providence and Chaos. So those who destroyed it from within don't scale anyway (AKA sandalphon Lucilius)
 
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Ebisu could be 6D yeah but it travelled to the Fissure which is something not even Otherworldly entities can reach
Etemenanki will only upgrade the skin-deep defense it has that encompasses Providence and Chaos. So those who destroyed it from within don't scale anyway (AKA sandalphon Lucilius)
Edgeland was still the same prior to the crew abandoning the ship, so I see no reason why fissure would make ebisu 7D since it's more of there not be death rather than dimensional differences and otherworlders can freely move as long as concept of death exist in said dimensions/realms

Skin of Etermenaki is still the same as the shield surrounding pandemonium which 6 wings Sandy doubt he could destroy even with supreme primarch power, reason why I see it as just being more durable
 
Skin of Etermenaki is still the same as the shield surrounding pandemonium which 6 wings Sandy doubt he could destroy even with supreme primarch power, reason why I see it as just being more durable
No. The Shield of Pandemonium is a separate thing created by the Astral as its self defense

Etemenanki is created even before Astrals existed. It is described as being created by the Omnipotent.
Not even the Astrals understand it completely and the only reason they knew the Divine Tower has only Skin-deep invulnerability was because Lucilius is getting Prophetic dreams for being connected to Lucio/Sahar
Edgeland was still the same prior to the crew abandoning the ship, so I see no reason why fissure would make ebisu 7D since it's more of there not be death rather than dimensional differences and otherworlders can freely move as long as concept of death exist in said dimensions/realms
The Edgeland is the dimensional boundary, though. But like a small basin inside it, which can sometimes catch people instead of them falling to Crimson Horizon
That is the reason why it is completely cut off from Sky-realm. It was even stated that space functions differently in there.
Furthermore, not even the True King knows what happens inside the Fissure, despite Gran knowing what happens in the past of Crimson Horizon before Chaos eroded it completely into becoming part of the Otherworldly realm

As the Dimensional Boundary is literally what's keeping the Crimson Horizon and insulating its chaos, Edgeland as a whole would be on such level to even function properly. Furthermore, Ebisu, with the innermost teaching, tapped into all the possibilities of the Singularity Multiverse twice as well. It has the capacity to do it but it requires Kikuri from Lyria to properly navigate things connected to Gran/Singularity
 
No. The Shield of Pandemonium is a separate thing created by the Astral as its self defense
I know and what I meant was they both have the same deep defense not that they are the same
The Edgeland is the dimensional boundary, though. But like a small basin inside it, which can sometimes catch people instead of them falling to Crimson Horizon
That is the reason why it is completely cut off from Sky-realm. It was even stated that space functions differently in there.
Furthermore, not even the True King knows what happens inside the Fissure, despite Gran knowing what happens in the past of Crimson Horizon before Chaos eroded it completely into becoming part of the Otherworldly realm
Edgeland was still the same in the sense that it lacks the concept of death not that they share the same roles, that was the whole reason the otherworlders couldn't invade the edgeland and instead wait for their chance and it just so happens that the crew abandon repairing their ship hence making death a thing inside there. Anyways, I agree but still disagree on etermenaki being L1A since it being neither chaos or providence and encompasses both would at most get it to 8D considering the fact chaos doesn't scale directly to the idea of death and otherworldy realm only gets L1A scaling because of the idea of death and not physically
 
I know and what I meant was they both have the same deep defense not that they are the same

Edgeland was still the same in the sense that it lacks the concept of death not that they share the same roles, that was the whole reason the otherworlders couldn't invade the edgeland and instead wait for their chance and it just so happens that the crew abandon repairing their ship hence making death a thing inside there. Anyways, I agree but still disagree on etermenaki being L1A since it being neither chaos or providence and encompasses both would at most get it to 8D considering the fact chaos doesn't scale directly to the idea of death and otherworldy realm only gets L1A scaling because of the idea of death and not physically
Fair point on Etemenanki.
As for the edgeland. It is much one and the same as dimensional boundary and nothing really scales to it. But if we say it is the same as sky-realm while claiming the boundary is 7D it wouldn't be consistent. Besides Ebisu on itself isn't the edgeland but something that dwells in it.
If we would assume Etemenanki as 8D for encompassing then they should at least be superior. But my gripe is still the fact that this invulnerability isn't physical but energy just like chaos and the fact that Godly powers or realm are something ideas also avoid yet the Otherworld does not share the same fear and would use anything for their gain to take revenge on God.

At the very least I still reserve the belief that it's invulnerability scales to such level but the structure doesn't scale
 
Fair point on Etemenanki.
As for the edgeland. It is much one and the same as dimensional boundary and nothing really scales to it. But if we say it is the same as sky-realm while claiming the boundary is 7D it wouldn't be consistent. Besides Ebisu on itself isn't the edgeland but something that dwells in it.
If we would assume Etemenanki as 8D for encompassing then they should at least be superior. But my gripe is still the fact that this invulnerability isn't physical but energy just like chaos and the fact that Godly powers or realm are something ideas also avoid yet the Otherworld does not share the same fear and would use anything for their gain to take revenge on God.

At the very least I still reserve the belief that it's invulnerability scales to such level but the structure doesn't scale
Reasonable same with ebisu
Also since 000 is from the MS so etermenaki encompassing both providence would imply it encompasses both the infinite stories of MC adventures
 
Disagree with the 7 layers of Estalucia being actual layers of Low 1-A, that seems like a reach based on the scans given, unless there is further context about those layers in question being more than infinitely greater (or something along those lines)

I'm also pretty sure you could say the Wedges should be a layer above the Divine Realm, if I'm reading the related scans (and other right, considering they act as the laws/foundation that allowed the world and its concepts to exist (which should include the Primal Beasts), and are the Providence of the World, which is directly named as the laws of physics and encompasses the concept of Space and Time (Akasha), and I would say providence in general should exist on the same level (and if the statements about the horizon being the Canvas upon which the Wedges were painted holds true rather than just being an inaccurate statement made by people who just didn't know the truth, then I could see it also being Low 1-A).

With this, I would argue that anyone who transcends Providence should be 1-A (if there are no antifeats), and thus you could argue Estalucia to be 1-A instead (depends on how this all works out, but yeah, though I'm wondering if principle in this scan is meant to also be providence), can see the same for The Omnipotent even without Monism (or Estalucia being 1-A), in fact I don't really think there needs to be a distinction between the two based off just what's on the blog, but I don't know the verse, so shrug

I'm also not so sure about The Blue Will having another layer of existence above The Omnipotent if the latter becomes 1-A, but shrug

Honestly, no idea where Argo Navis scales but I can see it being anywhere from Wedge Level to 1-A, especially considering the fact that it is fueled on Existability (which I am kinda curious on if it or anything else shows up elsewhere, because that could be useful for tiering things)
 
I'm also pretty sure you could say the Wedges should be a layer above the Divine Realm, if I'm reading the related scans (and other right, considering they act as the laws/foundation that allowed the world and its concepts to exist (which should include the Primal Beasts), and are the Providence of the World, which is directly named as the laws of physics and encompasses the concept of Space and Time (Akasha), and I would say providence in general should exist on the same level (and if the statements about the horizon being the Canvas upon which the Wedges were painted holds true rather than just being an inaccurate statement made by people who just didn't know the truth, then I could see it also being Low 1-A).
Divine realm is different from other realms since it's a realm which possibly exist even beyond estalucia ( at least no one knows where it is ) but is still almost the same as the divine realm since God's or divine beings can manifest inside estalucia without needing a vessel

The wedges weren't painted on the canvas of crimson horizon the world is, at least, crimson horizon holds no sway against wedges why providence acts as a pillar to the world wedges themselves are distinct from providence just like kumizumi the wedge of life and death can still tap into his his true form after the providence of life and death got removed by omnipotent. So providence shouldn't exist on the same level
I'm also not so sure about The Blue Will having another layer of existence above The Omnipotent if the latter becomes 1-A, but shrug
Blue will should have another layer beyond the omnipotent since it's entirely different from the omnipotent, since it's not just limited to only altering or destroying the natures of gods but can also create a being who's as strong as the omnipotent. And the fact that it can push God's even beyond the omnipotent itself
Honestly, no idea where Argo Navis scales but I can see it being anywhere from Wedge Level to 1-A, especially considering the fact that it is fueled on Existability (which I am kinda curious on if it or anything else shows up elsewhere, because that could be useful for tiering things)
Basically all divine beings are L1A since they are stronger than the idea of death itself and exist on the same level as estalucia, and at the very least somewhat relative to the omnipotent since the omnipotent itself it's a divine being
 
Disagree with the 7 layers of Estalucia being actual layers of Low 1-A, that seems like a reach based on the scans given, unless there is further context about those layers in question being more than infinitely greater (or something along those lines)
Probably not. They kinda didn't get any deeper than what is presented, other than saying Willpower strength is necessary
With this, I would argue that anyone who transcends Providence should be 1-A (if there are no antifeats), and thus you could argue Estalucia to be 1-A instead (depends on how this all works out, but yeah, though I'm wondering if principle in this scan is meant to also be providence), can see the same for The Omnipotent even without Monism (or Estalucia being 1-A), in fact I don't really think there needs to be a distinction between the two based off just what's on the blog, but I don't know the verse, so shrug
The possible anti-feats I could think of and am aware of are
I'm also not so sure about The Blue Will having another layer of existence above The Omnipotent if the latter becomes 1-A, but shrug
It literally hinges on the fact that it caused Sky-god to evolve beyond creation and Omnipotent itself, but kinda died as an identity because of it (It also has a side effect that causes even things directly related to Sky-God to also ascend and disappear the same way)
Honestly, no idea where Argo Navis scales but I can see it being anywhere from Wedge Level to 1-A, especially considering the fact that it is fueled on Existability (which I am kinda curious on if it or anything else shows up elsewhere, because that could be useful for tiering things)
Honestly also my problem. This storyline is so far disconnected and almost standalone. Existability is something new; it was introduced only in this event and only this event makes use of its information, and they said only those using or powered by horoscope weapons can completely resist it that Even Captain almost fell victim to it if not for Cupitan giving her arrows to hold on to that comes from her Bow
 
Divine realm is different from other realms since it's a realm which possibly exist even beyond estalucia ( at least no one knows where it is ) but is still almost the same as the divine realm since God's or divine beings can manifest inside estalucia without needing a vessel
I mean, the current CRT is arguing that Estalucia transcends both the divine realm and wedges, which I buy, considering the scan of all concepts having been created there, in addition to the fact that gods (and by implication their divine realm) are created after creation proper was made

Them being able to manifest there without an avatar seems to just me more a property of the realm's already stated property of those within not being bound by physical bodies
The wedges weren't painted on the canvas of crimson horizon the world is, at least, crimson horizon holds no sway against wedges why providence acts as a pillar to the world wedges themselves are distinct from providence just like kumizumi the wedge of life and death can still tap into his his true form after the providence of life and death got removed by omnipotent. So providence shouldn't exist on the same level
I'm not saying the wedges were painted on the canvas as in they were the painting created, I'm saying they were the paints/colors that were then painted onto the crimson horizon that created the world

Anyways uh, that's kinda just wrong no?
At least with our current profiles I'm pretty sure we equate the two
Hell the scan I'm pretty sure the thing your quoting does just say that it was the wedge of life and death that got removed (scan)
So idk
Blue will should have another layer beyond the omnipotent since it's entirely different from the omnipotent, since it's not just limited to only altering or destroying the natures of gods but can also create a being who's as strong as the omnipotent. And the fact that it can push God's even beyond the omnipotent itself
That doesn't make for another layer into 1-A, that just means its even stronger in the same layer
Basically all divine beings are L1A since they are stronger than the idea of death itself and exist on the same level as estalucia, and at the very least somewhat relative to the omnipotent since the omnipotent itself it's a divine being
I mean I was saying saying Argo Nauvis has a Low 1-A baseline, but I wasn't sure if it just stops there or if it goes higher, also I severely doubt all divine beings being relative, esp to the omnipotent or estalucia
Probably not. They kinda didn't get any deeper than what is presented, other than saying Willpower strength is necessary
Then yeah, no layers
The possible anti-feats I could think of and am aware of are
First one is fine then, just depends on the defintion of the imprint and "where" it's located

Depends on what the Skymap is/who created it, but that seems fine since it just seems to ascend them to a higher level where they actually can't interface with reality

Third one is fine, depends on how it got dragged down though

Aight
It literally hinges on the fact that it caused Sky-god to evolve beyond creation and Omnipotent itself, but kinda died as an identity because of it (It also has a side effect that causes even things directly related to Sky-God to also ascend and disappear the same way)
Yeah, don't think that's enough for another layer into 1-A
Honestly also my problem. This storyline is so far disconnected and almost standalone. Existability is something new; it was introduced only in this event and only this event makes use of its information, and they said only those using or powered by horoscope weapons can completely resist it that Even Captain almost fell victim to it if not for Cupitan giving her arrows to hold on to that comes from her Bow
Yeah rip, was this like post-primal beast captain or whatnot, cause then maybe you could say they're above primal beasts from that, but idk
 
I mean, the current CRT is arguing that Estalucia transcends both the divine realm and wedges, which I buy, considering the scan of all concepts having been created there, in addition to the fact that gods (and by implication their divine realm) are created after creation proper was made
Well ofc we all believe estalucia does infact exist above the divine realm since except for divine beings explanation nothing have been said about divine realm
Anyways uh, that's kinda just wrong no?
At least with our current profiles I'm pretty sure we equate the two
Hell the scan I'm pretty sure the thing your quoting does just say that it was the wedge of life and death that got removed (scan)
So idk
Removing wedges removes that particular providence just like how we see "eternity" got removed from the skyrealm after the wedge of eternity left the skyrealm to the astral realm.
Why removing the providence doesn't actually affect wedges, at most they will lose control over that aspect in their manifested form which they can still control by connecting to their true form

That doesn't make for another layer into 1-A, that just means its even stronger in the same layer
I don't really know how layers work so 🤷 but if being able to evolve God's beyond the omnipotent is still the same layer, okay then
I mean I was saying saying Argo Nauvis has a Low 1-A baseline, but I wasn't sure if it just stops there or if it goes higher, also I severely doubt all divine beings being relative, esp to the omnipotent or estalucia
At least with the conclusion of that particular part of the event Argo doesn't go above L1A
 
Third one is fine, depends on how it got dragged down though
Omnipotent basically gave a select few Imprints to draw power from the boundary and his main form and clones (Physical manifestations), but they have to be someone they created, or their ancestor is among those created by Omnipotent himself. They used this Imprint to reach him by digging deep into the Captain's Being. But they only dragged him down. Estalucia was unaffected by it.

Going more into the details. This is the captain after reaching a possibility where the Captain has already awakened the Imprint on him and borrowed it. The Tentacle then reached into Captain to reach this possibility, where the Captain had the Boundary Imprint opened since they were still drawing power.
First one is fine then, just depends on the defintion of the imprint and "where" it's located
I don't think it is physical because they studied Captain internally and externally and found no issue despite Captain somehow suffering a heavy fever from it, overloading him with energy. There was even a side story where they experimented on someone with the same imprint, cutting her limbs, testing each limb still possessed the imprint, etc., and in an alternate timeline. This person's body has already been replaced with a slime, but still possesses the power to draw from it.
 
Removing wedges removes that particular providence just like how we see "eternity" got removed from the skyrealm after the wedge of eternity left the skyrealm to the astral realm.
Why removing the providence doesn't actually affect wedges, at most they will lose control over that aspect in their manifested form which they can still control by connecting to their true form
I don't know the verse, which is why I'm asking questions to begin with, to clarify this stuff
But anyways, do you have a scan or like, location for these things that I can easily check to say Wedges are > Providence?
Seems fine to me then
 
I don't know the verse, which is why I'm asking questions to begin with, to clarify this stuff
But anyways, do you have a scan or like, location for these things that I can easily check to say Wedges are > Providence?
You already brought out the scan, providence is basically, how the world should function, how it wouldn't function, how it's supposed to function. So ofc, which would imply the omnipotent removing the wedge of death would render the providence of death meaningless. The only reason death still remains in the skyrealm is basically because of the nature of bahamut which is destruction and luwoh with fediel are temporarily controlling life and death plus we still see the wedge of death living in the skyrealm after he got removed from his role of life and death
 
You already brought out the scan, providence is basically, how the world should function, how it wouldn't function, how it's supposed to function. So ofc, which would imply the omnipotent removing the wedge of death would render the providence of death meaningless. The only reason death still remains in the skyrealm is basically because of the nature of bahamut which is destruction and luwoh with fediel are temporarily controlling life and death plus we still see the wedge of death living in the skyrealm after he got removed from his role of life and death
Aight then
 
Removing wedges removes that particular providence just like how we see "eternity" got removed from the skyrealm after the wedge of eternity left the skyrealm to the astral realm.
Why removing the providence doesn't actually affect wedges, at most they will lose control over that aspect in their manifested form which they can still control by connecting to their true form
Wedge of eternity is actuall just the Astral God
 
Wait fr ? Lmfao
Which event was it shown
It wasn't shown.
Vrazarek: In a world governed by destruction and rebirth, any changes brought about by outside invaders is simply part of the cycle!

Vrazarek: Furthermore, if the wedge of eternity should ever return from the Astral Realm, it would signify a return to the world as the Omnipotent had originally envisioned it.
But the quote hints a lot at the Creation Myth, where after the split, the one responsible for eternity left, so destruction and rebirth reign in the Sky-realm.
Since only the Astral God left Sky-realm.
Fediel: The power of separation and rejection lies with Kamuzumi. In his prime, he could have used his ability to control the Grim Basin.

Wamdus: But there's nothing for it now. Kamuzumi isn't a wedge anymore.

Wamdus: If only he could use his pact with the girl of the gate to fish his original self out of the boundary...
Wedges have a much more general role and powers depending on the concept they are responsible for. Hence, Kamizumi/Nectar has the power of rejection and separation since he'd have to separate life from death

Like they mentioned. They exist to maintain whatever is created and how they function.
Like, it doesn't matter if you create the concept of a Circle if no force is enforcing said concept. (Hence the Bubble and Water Pressure Allegory Wamdus brought up).
But unlike the Concepts of the Divine realm. Their true form and original self exist in the Boundary, AKA Estalucia. Hence, they have superiority over those created concepts.

So their removal means there won't be any force to enforce any concept under them, like life and death can still exist, but no force to exert its idea in reality. Until Fediel and Lu-woh at least started signifying each respective part of it ,like Life and Death.
Lu Woh: With me representing life and Fediel representing death, we've been able to uphold those tenets for the time being.

Galleon: Peace.
(He continues to exist in the Sky Realm as an individual life-form.)

Fediel: With a dyad in place, he seems to be doing well.

Lu Woh: Fediel... Why do you care so much about the coupling of dyads?

Lu Woh: You are the wedge signifying the end of all things, yet your interest lies in the opposite.
and as they said Most wedges already disappeared or got lost or whatever. But thanks to the remaining wedges they kinda took over the role of applying them still
 
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