VERY fast tf2 going at incredible hihg speed

[TheGatememer]

Anyways, the purpose of this CRT is to upgrade the speed of characters from Team Fortress to Speed of Light.

Feats​

Pomson 6000​

For starters, everyone in the game is capable of dodging the energy beam from the Pomson 6000, who's publicity blurb says this:

Blasting out rapid pulses of high amplitude, cross spectrum radiation has never been so convenient!

This is a pretty blatant statement confirming that Pomson 6000 fires real light (ie, Speed of Light projectiles), given that it mentions amplitude, and (presumably) the electromagnetic spectrum.

If that's not enough, it's stated outright to fire electromagnetic radiation:

The Pomson 6000 has been described thus: "Blasting out rapid-succession pulses of cross-spectrum electromagnetic radiation...

In addition to this, it travels in a completely straight line, and can't be interacted with physically, given that it can't be reflected by Pyro's Air Blast, which reflects projectiles.

Righteous Bison​

Everyone in the game is also capable of dodging beams from the Righteous Bison, which is part of a pack of "wave weaponry", and the Righteous Bison itself is stated to be an "Indivisible Particle Smasher". Particle smashers, which are also called Particle accelerators, accelerate particles to near the speed of light, or Relativistic+ speeds. Like, so close to the speed of light that it's only a small fraction of a percentage away from reaching the speed of light.

Before you mention the size of real life particle accelerators, while it's true that they can be miles long, upon some further research, I found that it really only takes a few centimeters for a particle to reach 99% of the speed of light, and the rest of the accelerator is just there to get it up to 99.9999%. So, the compact size of the Righteous Bison doesn't disqualify it from it being a legitimate particle smasher, ergo, a device that can shoot out particles near the speed of light.

To further support it being a projectile that is close to the speed of light, ingame, the Righteous Bison's projectile speed is the exact same as that of the Pomson 6000's, which, as we established above, is a weapon that fires real radiation (ie, light).

Cross-Comm Express​

Not a weapon, but a statement that supports the feats above.

The Cross-Comm Express, a cosmetic item for the Scout, states this:

This full spectrum battle monocle receives signals from a satellite at light speed, which means you may have to slow down a little so they can catch up to you.

This statement implies that Scout can either move at the Speed of Light, or FTL for the satellite signals to not be able to catch up to him.

In previous CRTs, this evidence was discarded due to likely being an outlier/flowery language, but given the evidence above, there is credence to this statement, meaning it should be viable as supporting evidence (emphasis on supporting) for the two feats above.

Scaling​

Anyone who can dodge the Pomson 6000, or Righteous Bison, or keep up with characters that do (namely, the TF2 Mercenaries) would scale. This, of course, means basically everyone with a profile scales, given everyone on the profiles currently scales to the exact same speed rating.

This would in turn give any guns a "far higher" rating for attack speed, since they consistently blitz the mercenaries, and an "even higher" rating for users of BONK! Atomic Punch via letting the consumer dodge bullets like they aren't even there.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Yeah, I agree. I hope it’ll pass.

 

[Chritin]

I agree for the most part, although I remember stuff like this getting brought up multiple times in the past and getting rejected on the pretense that the speed of of projectiles is not conducive of their in lore speed. Granted, I think this kind of stupid since Overwatch characters are allowed to have the same thing, so either that needs to get removed or it needs to be allowed to TF2 as well.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

I agree for the most part, although I remember stuff like this getting brought up multiple times in the past and getting rejected on the pretense that the speed of of projectiles is not conducive of their in lore speed. Granted, I think this kind of stupid since Overwatch characters are allowed to have the same thing, so either that needs to get removed or it needs to be allowed to TF2 as well.

The CrossComn Express is independent of that, though.

 

[Chritin]

The CrossComn Express is independent of that, though.

No yeah, I'm just saying that in case people argue against the Pomson.

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

for the Cross-Comm Express Im not completely sure but for the weapons that shoot lightspeed projectiles such as the pomson and bison yeah I can agree to that pretty easily as it seems pretty consistent

 

[Rex_Eckles]

for the Cross-Comm Express Im not completely sure but for the weapons that shoot lightspeed projectiles such as the pomson and bison yeah I can agree to that pretty easily as it seems pretty consistent

What's the issue with the Express?

 

[TheGatememer]

I agree for the most part, although I remember stuff like this getting brought up multiple times in the past and getting rejected on the pretense that the speed of of projectiles is not conducive of their in lore speed. Granted, I think this kind of stupid since Overwatch characters are allowed to have the same thing, so either that needs to get removed or it needs to be allowed to TF2 as well.

I'm not using it in-game speeds to scale characters though, nor is it the primary reason why the Righteous Bison is Rel+. I'm only using it to point out the fact that the speed of the Righteous Bison is the same as the speed of the Pomson 6000 (ie, lightspeed), which further supports it's Rel+ speed.

 

[Chritin]

I'm not using it in-game speeds to scale characters though, nor is it the primary reason why the Righteous Bison is Rel+. I'm only using it to point out the fact that the speed of the Righteous Bison is the same as the speed of the Pomson 6000 (ie, lightspeed), which further supports it's Rel+ speed.

It's not even in game speed, just the fact that they can outpace those projectiles at all.

 

[TheGatememer]

It's not even in game speed, just the fact that they can outpace those projectiles at all.

Not sure what you mean. If you're referring to the fact that the mercs can dodge the projectiles ingame, well, that's just what scaling is lmao.

 

[Lilybitdun]

This seems fine but is there scans of the mercs' speed compared to the pomson or righteous bison? All these weapon speeds and statements would still be true with the mercs being Rel/Rel+

 

[Rex_Eckles]

This seems fine but is there scans of the mercs' speed compared to the pomson or righteous bison? All these weapon speeds and statements would still be true with the mercs being Rel/Rel+

I don't think there are, given how they're non-deflectable (although other projectiles are deflectable and are faster in-game than either of them). The speed scaling really comes from the Cross Comm Express.

 

[Lilybitdun]

I don't think there are, given how they're non-deflectable (although other projectiles are deflectable and are faster in-game than either of them)

They are projectiles that take time to move through space, it should be possible to measure merc speed compared to them even if the scans don't currently exist

The speed scaling really comes from the Cross Comm Express.

I feel like that statement would still work even if scout was only Relativistic, plus gotta see if SoL to FTL scout contradicts his movement compared to the proposed rel+/SoL attacks

 

[TheGatememer]

This seems fine but is there scans of the mercs' speed compared to the pomson or righteous bison? All these weapon speeds and statements would still be true with the mercs being Rel/Rel+

I would calc it, but this wiki did away with Hammer Unit scaling so ¯\(ツ)/¯

 

[Lilybitdun]

I would calc it, but this wiki did away with ingame/Hammer Unit scaling so ¯\(ツ)/¯

honestly that whole situation is weird cause it's allowed in overwatch I think I'm gonna make a thread about it honestly

you can still calc it without hammer units tho it would be significantly more tedious for no good reason; just record footage of characters and projectiles compared to the attacks and manually measure the compared speeds

 

[Rex_Eckles]

honestly that whole situation is weird cause it's allowed in overwatch I think I'm gonna make a thread about it honestly

you can still calc it without hammer units tho it would be significantly more tedious for no good reason; just record footage of characters and projectiles compared to the attacks and manually measure the compared speeds

I remember a previous thread mentioned that it should be removed for Overwatch.

Anyways, we need some other knowledgable members and/or staff input.

 

[TheGatememer]

honestly that whole situation is weird cause it's allowed in overwatch I think I'm gonna make a thread about it honestly

you can still calc it without hammer units tho it would be significantly more tedious for no good reason; just record footage of characters and projectiles compared to the attacks and manually measure the compared speeds

Someone could do that, but really, the relevant detail here is that the projectiles can be dodged in-game. That, combined with the supporting statement (emphasis on supporting) from the Cross-Comm Express suggests that the Mercs can scale to SoL. If nothing else, it can act as a place-holder value until a calc is created.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Someone could do that, but really, the relevant detail here is that the projectiles can be dodged in-game. That, combined with the supporting statement from the Cross-Comm Express suggests that the Mercs can scale to SoL. If nothing else, it can act as a place-holder value until a calc is created.

Make sure to write out the rating explicitly in the OP.

 

[TheGatememer]

Make sure to write out the rating explicitly in the OP.

It is, the very first line.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

It is, the very first line.

Oh right, sorry.

 

[Chritin]

Not sure what you mean. If you're referring to the fact that the mercs can dodge the projectiles ingame, well, that's just what scaling is lmao.

Well yeah. Projectiles like rockets and lasers are made intentionally slower in game compared to hitscan bullets. Their actual speed in game isn't what they would be in lore. Again though, I'm agreeing with the thread, not arguing against you, just playing devils advocate.

 

[LandonTheGuy]

I'm fine with that if it's classified as "possibly ftl" and doesn't influence travel speed (considering that would bring a bunch of implications)


(btw i think that it would have been more consistent and effective adding the calcs i've mentioned before, so if this gets rejected at least we got the other scaling)

 

[Rex_Eckles]

I'm fine with that if it's classified as "possibly ftl" and doesn't influence travel speed (considering that would bring a bunch of implications)


(btw i think that it would have been more consistent and effective adding the calcs i've mentioned before, so if this gets rejected at least we got the other scaling)

I don't think cluttering a CRT with many different speed ratings is the best idea.

 

[LandonTheGuy]

I don't think cluttering a CRT with many different speed ratings is the best idea.

indeed, but still i feel like we skipped a step doing that

 

[LandonTheGuy]

wich you cannot blame me to think it that way, considering massivly hypersonic+ rewd up heavy doesn't sound that belivable

 

[Lilybitdun]

I would calc it, but this wiki did away with Hammer Unit scaling so ¯\(ツ)/¯

If you don't mind could you link me to when hammer unit scaling was rejected?

 

[TheGatememer]

If you don't mind could you link me to when hammer unit scaling was rejected?

Hammering in the Inconsistency: Bad Scaling and Hammer Units (Team Fortress Revision)

Introduction Hammer units are the unit of measurement used in Source Engine games by Valve, they are present currently on profiles for Counter-Strike and Team Fortress. Currently, it is accepted on pages that everyone in Team Fortress is Subsonic for comparing the rockets of Soldier to that of...

vsbattles.com

Anyways as I said above,

the relevant detail here is that the projectiles can be dodged in-game. That, combined with the supporting statement (emphasis on supporting) from the Cross-Comm Express suggests that the Mercs can scale to SoL. If nothing else, it can act as a place-holder value until a calc is created.

 

[TheGatememer]

I'm fine with that if it's classified as "possibly ftl" and doesn't influence travel speed (considering that would bring a bunch of implications)


(btw i think that it would have been more consistent and effective adding the calcs i've mentioned before, so if this gets rejected at least we got the other scaling)

It shouldn't really be a possibly, given that there are enough feats for it to be consistent.

I didn't see a point in adding any of the Superhuman - Supersonic calcs to the OP, since there were more SoL/Rel+ feats (as odd as that sounds), and would add unnecessary bloat, detracting from the point of this CRT.

 

[LandonTheGuy]

It shouldn't really be a possibly, given that there are enough feats for it to be consistent.

I didn't see a point in adding any of the Superhuman - Supersonic calcs to the OP, since there were more SoL/Rel+ feats (as odd as that sounds), and would add unnecessary bloat, detracting from the point of this CRT.

ok fair enough, i just had the feeling we skipped a step on this whole thing (wich you cannot blame me considering we are going from subsonic+ to Speed of light).

Regardless of my own feelings, i agree with the r/c speed but i have my doubts on travel speed considering game meccanics and all.

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

What's the issue with the Express?

Its just that I dont know how we often treat item descriptions in cosmetics as off the top of my head there isnt too much we use from cosmetics

most descriptions used were from official weapons like the bison n pomson

 

[AmonInChains]

Disagree.

Glass bulbs from The Wrap Assassin are far faster than Pomson 6000, and the projectiles just moves at 90 mph.

These lovely festive ornaments are so beautifully crafted, your enemies are going to want to see them close up. Indulge them by batting those fragile glass bulbs into their eyes at 90 mph.

Even Baseball zips are treated as something, which moves at... mach 1.

Dive, duck, and weave your way across the various battlefields as baseballs zip through the sky at Mach one, but don't count yourself out just yet.

Also a boat moving at mach 12 is impressive too.

We're turning this ship around! The SS We're Done Sucking is about to launch! Dis is your captain speaking! Buckle your seatbelts 'cause this boat is going like freakin' Mach 12!

 

[Lilybitdun]

Disagree.

Glass bulbs from The Wrap Assassin are far faster than Pomson 6000, and the projectiles just moves at 90 mph.


Even Baseball zips are treated as something, which moves at... mach 1.


Also a boat moving at mach 12 is impressive too.

The mach 12 seems like flowery language but the other two do seem like anti-feats

 

[Rex_Eckles]

The mach 12 seems like flowery language but the other two do seem like anti-feats

Fair, perhaps each projectile should be given it's own speed rating?

 

[AmonInChains]

The mach 12 seems like flowery language but the other two do seem like anti-feats

I mean, I can say the same about Cross Common Express's statement; most of the cosmetic descriptions are just made to be funny. Valve itself lets its fans make these descriptions.

Fair, perhaps each projectile should be given it's own speed rating?

This is not what OP is proposing. He explictly says:

This would in turn give any guns a "far higher" rating for attack speed, since they consistently blitz the mercenaries

Not only that, but Pomson's shots are clearly slower.
Wrap Assassin projectiles are 3000 hu/s, while Pomson 6000's projectile are 1500 hu/s after a buff.
Reminder that we do not use the hu/s in the Wiki, but we can affirm that its shots are slower in comparison if there is any doubt in the video previously sent.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Not only that, but Pomson's shots are clearly slower.
Wrap Assassin projectiles are 3000 hu/s, while Pomson 6000's projectile are 1500 hu/s after a buff.
Reminder that we do not use the hu/s in the Wiki, but we can affirm that its shots are slower in comparison if there is any doubt in the video previously sent.

In Scout's defense, the whole point of the Wrap Assassin is to have the fragile bulbs shatter when they hit their targets, so he may deliberately hit them slower to not prematurely break them.

 

[Lilybitdun]

I mean, I can say the same about Cross Common Express's statement; most of the cosmetic descriptions are just made to be funny. Valve itself lets its fans make these descriptions.

Wait wouldn't the fact the descriptions are fan made and meant be humorous be reasoning to disqualify the wrap assassin statement too?

 

[AmonInChains]

In Scout's defense, the whole point of the Wrap Assassin is to have the fragile bulbs shatter when they hit their targets, so he may deliberately hit them slower to not prematurely break them.

ok, but 11,991,698,320 times slower?
how would they even impact to the foes being millions of times slower?

Wait wouldn't the fact the descriptions are fan made and meant be humorous be reasoning to disqualify the wrap assassin statement too?

Then all the descriptions are screwed. ¯\(ツ)/¯
and the other two statements I sent don't even come from cosmetics, but from the official page and the character.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Wait wouldn't the fact the descriptions are fan made and meant be humorous be reasoning to disqualify the wrap assassin statement too?

I don't think that would disqualify either of them since they were officially added to the game.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

ok, but 11,991,698,320 times slower?
how would they even impact to the foes being millions of times slower?

I dunno. TF2 is just really weird.

I suppose there is one way to solve all of this, but I doubt anyone would accept it.

 

[AmonInChains]

I dunno. TF2 is just really weird.

It's weird but not that inconsistent.

Even if we consider that case of it being held back when launching the projectiles, it is completely WORSE, given that you are saying that the Pomson bullets are slower than that.

So yeah, I don't think the verse is faster than Supersonic speeds normally, sorry.