Erza vs Sakura: Rematch

[Delusionaltx2]

Erza is visably shown to get extremely tired from summoning that many, and she dosen't even throw them she just summons them

why are we assuming she can throw 200 swords at once and spam them in the air to overwelm sakura? when just summoning that much puts her on her knees questioning if this is the limit of her magic?

 

[Mickey1940]

I think you ignored my commend about the fact that she literally never does this against a single enemy

even in this shot she is visibly exhausted simply from summoning them

 

[MountainWine]

crossing 20km in like 5 seconds translates to 8947.75 miles per hour, the fastest human can run at 28 mph

Having a hard time believing that even casual Naruto Ninjas ain’t beating 28 mph

 

[Delusionaltx2]

yes they are, you repeatedly denying that doesnt mean they're not justified

We are literally giving you examples as to how FT supporters aren't justifying anything

again people are saying she's more skilled? how? going by profiles sakura humiliates

as in, sakura having to grab erza then rip her apart? as that's definitely something that'll happen

yeah because most of erzas showing are literally her running towards the enemy at close range which against sakuras class T physicals and actual skill feats would be a huge problem for her.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Having a hard time believing that even casual Naruto Ninjas ain’t beating 28 mph

this summarizes FT supporters the entire time

"I'll just ignore the feat because it looks ridiculous!1! it's accepted and everything but screw wiki rules!1"

 

[Mickey1940]

yes they are, you repeatedly denying that doesnt mean they're not justified

Almost all of Erza's advantages have been debunked several times in this thread and the last. The Erza supporters aren't giving any new information, and therefore it's not justified

as in, sakura having to grab erza then rip her apart? as that's definitely something that'll happen

If Sakura grabs her and slams her into the ground, Erza can't really ignore that

that is your opinion, you're literally saying the same "sakura does this because she can" and for points for erza you go "well no that doesnt matter" when it does, atleast to many people here. that's why everyone gets 1 vote. you are basically dead set on sakura winning, so if its not sakura winning then it must be wrong

Sakura's arsenal is so small that she will resort to her OOC much earlier than Erza does, first of all, and second of all, Sakura has significantly fewer fights and therefore fewer anti feats to tie her down

Erza's fights are riddled with anti feats that put a lot of Erza's wincons into heavy contention, and unfortunately that's caused by Fairy Tail's PIS-filled nature and horrible animation

this is not what fra train is, its like 1? 2 at best? people who said that maybe. fra train is having 1 sided argument and the rest just agrees, that is not what happening here

they do not have to

not to mention this is a redo attempt

There definitely was an FRA train in the last thread, and there are definitely a few baseless FRAs in this one too

 

[MountainWine]

this summarizes FT supporters the entire time

"I'll just ignore the feat because it looks ridiculous!1! it's accepted and everything but screw wiki rules!1"

I didn’t ignore anything though? Your math is correct but you’re saying no one in Naruto can run faster than 28 mph unless using Chakra? Sounds like a lowball to attempt to get as high as possible a result for the multiplier

 

[Kaydee1648]

That begs the question on how fast is Sakura when using Shunshin. It varies from users to users and I don’t recall an exact multiplication figure.

With Shunshin, Sakura was fast enough to blitz Ino from a distance, who in turn was relative to her combat speed.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I didn’t ignore anything though?

Your response to me pointing out how fast shunshin is was literally you saying and I quote

"Having a hard time believing that even casual Naruto Ninjas ain’t beating 28 mph"

Your math is correct but you’re saying no one in Naruto can run faster than 28 mph unless using Chakra?

Yes which they do constantly so mute point

 

[Mickey1940]

also has anyone mentioned substitution jutsu yet

afaik Erza has no answer to this

 

[Delusionaltx2]

also has anyone mentioned substitution jutsu yet

afaik Erza has no answer to this

yes I have actually which would be very useful against her danmaku swords but people just kinda ignored that (as they did everything else)

 

[Mickey1940]

yes I have actually which would be very useful against her danmaku swords but people just kinda ignored that (as they did everything else)

sounds about right unfortunately

 

[Shadowslash125]

Just before everyone speaks of Sakura's travel speed being how much and what not, check this shit.

Speed equalized

Even if Sakura can travel a gazillion kilometers per nanosecond, the fact that her travel speed is being equalised to Erza's speed of, for example, 1 m/s. It's made far worse by the fact that her shunshin amp does not have a higher rating after her part 1 key, which is concerning since that insinuates that her amp speed isn't even enough to be noted as higher.

 

[MountainWine]

Your response to me pointing out how fast shunshin is was literally you saying and I quote

"Having a hard time believing that even casual Naruto Ninjas ain’t beating 28 mph"

I never said they couldn’t do 20 km in five seconds.

I said I’m finding it hard to believe that the average Naruto ninja can’t surpass 28 mph (the example you originally used for fastest human) unless using chakra. Which is importation because it determines the final multiplier.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Just before everyone speaks of Sakura's travel speed being how much and what not, check this shit.

Even if Sakura can travel a gazillion kilometers per nanosecond, the fact that her travel speed is being equalised to Erza's speed of, for example, 1 m/s. It's made far worse by the fact that her shunshin amp does not have a higher rating after her part 1 key, which is concerning since that insinuates that her amp speed isn't even enough to be noted as higher.

Once again with how speed equal matches work speed amps are applied as multiples meaning however fast x amp makes you will be however faster you are than your base speed

for example if goku fought naruto and speed was equalized then goku turned super sayian and got 50x stronger even though goku is like mftl+ speed equal would equate nard to gokus base form in speed therefore ssj only makes him 50x faster

here shunshin would make sakura 319.5x faster than erza in travel speed

 

[Shadowslash125]

Yea, but people can also just recognize a page is outdated and that they probably shouldn't do a match with that character.

To be fair, the op who made the first one is a newbie, and probably didn't know better. Also we probably didn't tell him how bad the outdated verse is.
This OP, on the other hand, knows this, and yet still presses on despite knowing whoever wins won't have this match be there for the foreseeable future.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I never said they couldn’t do 20 km in five seconds.

I said I’m finding it hard to believe that the average Naruto ninja can’t surpass 28 mph (the example you originally used for fastest human) unless using chakra. Which is importation because it determines the final multiplier.

Ok so you do realize they always use chakra to enhance themselves right?

 

[Zackra1799]

Mitch could have debated on her favor instead of just crying not gonna lie

I guess this is beneath him, alongside putting outdated status in the verse I guess

Could you keep the disrespect to a minimun please, hes not obligated to do anything, hes retired.

And when you throw around verse deletion so casually maybe you should step up and help fix the verse if it bothers you so much instead of complaining

 

[Kaydee1648]

Even if Sakura can travel a gazillion kilometers per nanosecond, the fact that her travel speed is being equalised to Erza's speed of, for example, 1 m/s. It's made far worse by the fact that her shunshin amp does not have a higher rating after her part 1 key, which is concerning since that insinuates that her amp speed isn't even enough to be noted as higher.

Shunshin is not Sakura’s casual movement speed, it’s a speed amplification technique
From the vs thread rules;

• Speed Amplification techniques are assumed to grant the same percentile of increase to a character's equalized speeds, as they would to their usual speeds.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Still waiting on how fast erzas flight armour is

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

And when you throw around verse deletion so casually maybe you should step up and help fix the verse if it bothers you so much instead of complaining

Nah

 

[Shadowslash125]

Once again with how speed equal matches work speed amps are applied as multiples meaning however fast x amp makes you will be however faster you are than your base speed

That's only if the travel speed is distinct from the overall speed.
Like for example:

Superhuman movement speed with Subsonic reaction speed (Stated by official source that he can run 100 meteres in 7.4 seconds, or 13.5 m/s. Likely much faster than his previous form

If Shadowmoon is fighting someone slower than him, his reaction speed is equalised to his opponents, and his poorer speed will be reducted by the same multiplier, which would make him slower than his opponent in travel speed.
The problem with most profiles is that their speeds are overall, so when speed gets equalised, every speed gets equalised.

for example if goku fought naruto and speed was equalized then goku turned super sayian and got 50x stronger even though goku is like mftl+ speed equal would equate nard to gokus base form in speed therefore ssj only makes him 50x stronger

here shunshin would make sakura 319.5x faster than erza in travel speed

The difference between Goku and Sakura here is that Goku has a noticeable multiplier, and his speed amp is listed on the profile.
I'm finding issue that Sakura can up and be that fast when it isn't reflected on the profile (minus the first key). Erza in all her outdated glory still has her flight armor amp noted (though her amp is unquantifiable). If you want this to be accepted, have it be on the profile via a CRT or some shit.

 

[Mickey1940]

Just before everyone speaks of Sakura's travel speed being how much and what not, check this shit.

Even if Sakura can travel a gazillion kilometers per nanosecond, the fact that her travel speed is being equalised to Erza's speed of, for example, 1 m/s. It's made far worse by the fact that her shunshin amp does not have a higher rating after her part 1 key, which is concerning since that insinuates that her amp speed isn't even enough to be noted as higher.

conversley, Byakugo also gives a speed amp, meaning if Erza's base speed and Sakura's base speed is equalized, Sakura can use her only amp (Byakugo) to get a speed boost and outspeed Erza

Erza NEEDS flight armor to keep up at that point, and that opens up a lot of issues for Erza

 

[MountainWine]

Ok so you do realize they always use chakra to enhance themselves right?

I never said they don’t?

Honestly man, I think we’re chasing after something nonexistent because I failed to properly articulate myself. Apologies on that part.

Anyway, leaving the thread due to loss of interest. I don’t think it’d be fair to leave me as a vote for Erza, so OP can leave me as neutral or don’t include me at all. Peace

 

[Mommyleona]

We are literally giving you examples as to how FT supporters aren't justifying anything

dont see any really

again people are saying she's more skilled? how? going by profiles sakura humiliates

i can agree with that, most people i seen say she isnt too much below sakura

yeah because most of erzas showing are literally her running towards the enemy at close range which against sakuras class T physicals and actual skill feats would be a huge problem for he

and almost all of sakura's showings is her punching shit. she never grapples anyone or let alone tears people apart

Almost all of Erza's advantages have been debunked several times in this thread and the last

they werent, both have possible wincons

If Sakura grabs her and slams her into the ground, Erza can't really ignore that

big if

Sakura's arsenal is so small that she will resort to her OOC much earlier than Erza does, first of all

considering that you are pushing for sakura overwhelming with her normal arsenal, erza will be the one pushed to change and not sakura who's more likely to continue what she was doing

and there are definitely a few baseless FRAs in this one too

like? unless you mean some trolls at the beginning no fra is baseless after that

multiples meaning however fast x amp makes you will be however faster you are than your base speed

there is no accepted multiplier for shunshin for you to just pull it out randomly like that

 

[Mickey1940]

To be fair, the op who made the first one is a newbie, and probably didn't know better. Also we probably didn't tell him how bad the outdated verse is.
This OP, on the other hand, knows this, and yet still presses on despite knowing whoever wins won't have this match be there for the foreseeable future.

how is it outdated?

 

[Zackra1799]

Nah

With all due respect, its this kind of behavior that make this site toxic and generally unfun, if you have anything constructive to say by all means, but so far you've only been derailing the thread with your posts

 

[Delusionaltx2]

That's only if the travel speed is distinct from the overall speed.
Like for example:

which it is? shunshin isn't sakuras base speed nor her overall speed

If Shadowmoon is fighting someone slower than him, his reaction speed is equalised to his opponents, and his poorer speed will be reducted by the same multiplier, which would make him slower than his opponent in travel speed.
The problem with most profiles is that their speeds are overall, so when speed gets equalised, every speed gets equalised.

yeah as far as combat, travel, and reaction for their base speed goes

not any additional forms or power increases

The difference between Goku and Sakura here is that Goku has a noticeable multiplier, and his speed amp is listed on the profile.
I'm finding issue that Sakura can up and be that fast when it isn't reflected on the profile (minus the first key). Erza in all her outdated glory still has her flight armor amp noted (though her amp is unquantifiable). If you want this to be accepted, have it be on the profile via a CRT or some shit.

I literally just gave you a multiply using feats like 5 minutes ago

 

[Mickey1940]

i mean if Erza's profile truly is outdated then this match should be closed, but the victory she has on her page against Sakura should also be removed for the same reason

 

[Shadowslash125]

which it is? shunshin isn't sakuras base speed nor her overall speed

Speed: Relativistic with (Comparable to Naruto and Sasuke), higher Byakugō, far higher with Empowerment
Then where is the shunshin speed here?

yeah as far as combat, travel, and reaction for their base speed goes
not any additional forms or power increases

If there's only one speed listed, it's every speed.

I literally just gave you a multiply using feats like 5 minutes ago

Not to me, get it on the profile.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

With all due respect, its this kind of behavior that make this site toxic and generally unfun, if you have anything constructive to say by all means, but so far you've only been derailing the thread with your posts

The thread is over thanks to a FRA without any arguments for Erza, maybe post any argument yourself when I already posted Erza emotions amps her


Ah, sorry for making this site unfun, maybe come next time when people does not appear here just to shit on a ******* joke from my part

 

[Shadowslash125]

i mean if Erza's profile truly is outdated then this match should be closed, but the victory she has on her page against Sakura should also be removed for the same reason

Y'all could've just get this removed like this without needing to rehash a fight with no changes.
Instead, what did you do? Rehash a fight with no changes.

 

[Mickey1940]

Speed: Relativistic with (Comparable to Naruto and Sasuke), higher Byakugō, far higher with Empowerment
Then where is the shunshin speed here?

it would probably be listed under travel speed if it was implimented

i mean, Dragon Ball didn't have travel speed separated from combat speed for a WHILE

 

[Mickey1940]

Y'all could've just get this removed like this without needing to rehash a fight with no changes.
Instead, what did you do? Rehash a fight with no changes.

I was told I was allowed to rehash the fight with no changes

as far as I'm aware, you can't remove a thread either with no changes

 

[Mickey1940]

on a side note, when will Fairy Tail be updated? I was told that there are no more FT supporters

 

[Shadowslash125]

I was told I was allowed to rehash the fight with no changes

as far as I'm aware, you can't remove a thread either with no changes

To be fair, it is a fairly recent rule implemented not too long ago, so here are the rules now.

Remaking an existing match listed on a profile should generally be avoided, but a "rematch" may be acceptable under certain conditions.

• Acceptable conditions include:
  • Character information fundamental to the debate has changed due to a CRT.
  • An important piece of information or context was missed entirely or excluded from the debate.
  • A core argument of the previous debate is deemed invalid for some reason.
  • A new argument which is fundamentally different from anything previously stated is brought up.
  • There is a possibility for new conditions for the fight which are significantly different and could make for a valid new conclusion.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

dont see any really

People are saying "erza is just as smart as sakura" and i ask how and they don't explain anything because using profiles sakura humiliates erza in terms of battle smarts, stratagy, adaptability etc

people are saying "LS with reletive to potentially higher ap dosen't do anything" while there are literally threads of thread mods and CGM explaining what LS with relative ap can do so why are we ignoring that and saying "yeah erza can still handle sakura in close range despite the enormous LS gap"

most of this thread has been people sayin "erza does this because she can" "erza does that because she can" the few arguments that actually aim to counter the points brought up against her consist of people cherry picking and ignoring what the arguments say. people are mentioning that chiyo was helping her at the begining and middle of the sasori fight, cool the argument was that since sakura was adapting to him as the fight progressess she can handle that level of danmaku on her own which is shown in how by the end she's fighting on par with chiyo, not getting saved anymore.

I'll say it once and i'll say it again "This is FT we ain't gotta explain s***"

i can agree with that, most people i seen say she isnt too much below sakura

and how many of those people siting scans and feats as to why

and almost all of sakura's showings is her punching shit. she never grapples anyone or let alone tears people apart

dosen't matter, her intellegence section shows that she's highly adaptable so if she see's erza is much weaker than her in physicals she'll abuse this

they werent, both have possible wincons

yeah but only one has wincons that are actually concrete

big if

based on?

considering that you are pushing for sakura overwhelming with her normal arsenal, erza will be the one pushed to change and not sakura who's more likely to continue what she was doing

Aren't yall arguing for erza camping in the sky and spaming danmaku? yes sakura would 100% change her battle stratagy if it came to that

also you can't just say "erza would change as well" since you would now have to prove why erza is just as skilled as sakura which nobody here has done

like? unless you mean some trolls at the beginning no fra is baseless after that

it's 100% baseless

there is no accepted multiplier for shunshin for you to just pull it out randomly like that

• shunshin is accepted to increase travel speed iirc
• he asked for a multiplier and we have a feat to use to get said multiplier
• he even agreed the math was correct he just said it was hard to believe and that was it

 

[Zackra1799]

on a side note, when will Fairy Tail be updated? I was told that there are no more FT supporters

The moment when any staff starts caring enough to evaluate the High 6-A rating update crt i made, so I can move onto other revisions

 

[Mickey1940]

To be fair, it is a fairly recent rule implemented not too long ago, so here are the rules now.

Remaking an existing match listed on a profile should generally be avoided, but a "rematch" may be acceptable under certain conditions.

• Acceptable conditions include:
  • Character information fundamental to the debate has changed due to a CRT.
  • An important piece of information or context was missed entirely or excluded from the debate.
  • A core argument of the previous debate is deemed invalid for some reason.
  • A new argument which is fundamentally different from anything previously stated is brought up.
  • There is a possibility for new conditions for the fight which are significantly different and could make for a valid new conclusion.

The main reason why I remade the thread (besides being told I was allowed to) was cuz many of Erza's arguments were debunked, all of Sakura's advantages over Erza were completely ignored, and there was a legitimate FRA train happening that seemed unjustified

What are the rules regarding outdated profiles? Would I be able to get the match removed from Erza's and Sakura's profiles since Erza's profile is old?

 

[Mickey1940]

The moment when any staff starts caring enough to evaluate the High 6-A rating update crt i made, so I can move onto other revisions

Can you send me the link? I'm not staff but I'm just curious