Tokyo Ghoul small addition

[Arkenis]

Ok, I just don’t know, so I’m asking.

That's okay. There's diagrams of pressure points you can look up if you want to know.

 

[NikHelton]

Unconventional Resistance to Pressure Points i guess

What are you think?

 

[Arkenis]

Is this your catchphrase?

It's starting to become it sadly.

 

[NikHelton]

It's starting to become it sadly.

Idk why you had to say this.

 

[NikHelton]

Looks simple enough.

This is also fine

Hello darkness, my old friend,
I've come to talk with you again

 

[Vietthai96]

We see that ghouls are able to regenerate facial injuries or torsos pierced by bare hands without any difficulty. However, when their kagune comes into play (Tsukiyama is literally forced to run to replenish his energy), their regeneration often fails (Touka's wound didn't heal even in a day)

This is self-regeneration negation

Furthermore, one type of ghoul is especially vulnerable against another type of ghoul. So, Kaneki (rinkaku) should be especially vulnerable against this quinque (bikaku), but he quickly regenerates the wound that damaged his regeneration core and continues the fight as if nothing had happened.

At the same time, Arima's quinque was particularly effective against Kaneki, despite the fact that ghouls with much weaker regeneration abilities dealt with this type of quinque injury without much difficulty.

This seems like limited weakness against some specific thing

At the same time, Arima's quinque was particularly effective against Kaneki, despite the fact that ghouls with much weaker regeneration abilities dealt with this type of quinque injury without much difficulty.
In Re, Kaneki calmly regenerates wounds from this quinque and a more dangerous one, claiming it's useless against him.
The Dragon is Kaneki's mutated kagune and should have the same resistance to regeneration and its denial as Pre-Dragon Kaneki. Furuta regenerated after the Dragon absorbed a large portion of his body, but Furuta ultimately failed to recover from Post-Dragon Kaneki's wound.
Afterwards, Kaneki finally destroyed the Dragon's core, which had reassembled its original body simply at the cellular level (from its own kakuhou, which had been transplanted into the bodies of others and then absorbed by the Dragon).

i don't think these things is relevant; it seem too verse-specific and apply to Ghoul-specific biology only

 

[NikHelton]

This is self-regeneration negation

This seems like limited weakness against some specific thing



i don't think these things is relevant; it seem too verse-specific and apply to Ghoul-specific biology only

When a person was injured by a kagune and even healed with a kagune, Akira was still in a dying state, so it works on people too.

 

[Vietthai96]

Can people even healed? like they heal extremely slow

 

[Arkenis]

Can people even healed? like they heal extremely slow

No Akira can't heal. This is just quinques and kagunes specific rc cells being "poisonous" to one another.

• Ghouls have instant metabolism. Touka, weakened by lack of nourishment, bit Kaneki and was able to instantly release the kagune that had previously been blocked. Kaneki instantly gained access to his kagune after biting Hajime, even though his regeneration and RС were depleted. We also see that Kaneki can eat enemies with his kagune, and those like Uta can devour opponents whole. Therefore, Kaneki should have gained "Absorption."

This is already on the Ghoul page also. You can just add what you have here to it to show more explicitly how quick it can be.

• Limited Absorption (Consuming humans allows Ghouls to accumulate more RC cells)

 

[NikHelton]

Limited Absorption (Consuming humans allows Ghouls to accumulate more RC cells)

I just expanded on this point

 

[Arkenis]

I just expanded on this point

I know that. you can just add it to the page, you don't need to add it here since you're giving examples is all.

 

[NikHelton]

Can people even healed? like they heal extremely slow

It's never been stated anywhere that kagune is a ghoul's weakness. We've even seen examples of ghouls eating kagune and suffering no ill effects (when Kaneki ate Yamori's and Eto's kagune, he only became stronger; Ayato also ate Touka's kagune and kakuhou). It's odd to think this only applies to them.

Kaneki is still a human with human limitations, despite possessing ghoul physiology. His genes, his cells, are precisely human. He simply has ghoul abilities, including regeneration. And denying kagune regeneration worked on him as well. We simply know that characters with regeneration cannot properly heal wounds from kagune and quinque.
It's not some kind of kryptonite, not a special element possessed only by ghouls. This isn't banal garlic, sunlight, or silver, which are harmless to everyone except vampires and werewolves. RC cells are present in absolutely every living being; they're simply analogous to iron in the blood. It's worth considering the equalization factor between universes in matches.
Therefore, the idea of a "specific weakness" sounds like a question of mistrust.

 

[Arkenis]

No one is saying that Kagunes are a weakness to ghouls. Shinohara tells Juuzo how different types of Kagune's RC cells act as an effective poison against other types. In reality, Shinohara doesn't mean this in a literal sense, on the same page Shinohara is describing a sort of pokemon-esque system where different Kagunes work better against others.

This has nothing to do with regeneration overall, this is attacks by certain kagunes and quinques are harder to regenerate against. Some of the examples you've shown are that exact thing.

Here is an example where it's specifically the Kagune/quinque used that is the issue: Kaneki (a rinkaku haver) is attacked by the Bin brother's Bikaku kagune made quinque, it stops Kaneki from regenerating from. Additionally Kaneki also thinks the damage is simply too much as a reason why he can't regenerate too so this can be a reason for other examples.

These examples you've posted aren't really examples, it's more so some ghouls have a better resistant or more with Kaneki, his kakuja state simply lets him regenerate better even against the better kagune type.

 

[DarthSorox]

In TG, the kagune is equally dangerous to both humans and ghouls.
Can anyone provide a page showing that this only applies to them?

This isn't JoJo, where the hamon is a weakness for vampires.

 

[Arkenis]

We know it is equally dangerous, the argument is about it negating regeneration. What we see is that this is demonstrably shown to be for different types of kagunes not for regeneration as a phenomenon.

 

[NikHelton]

No one is saying that Kagunes are a weakness to ghouls. Shinohara tells Juuzo how different types of Kagune's RC cells act as an effective poison against other types. In reality, Shinohara doesn't mean this in a literal sense, on the same page Shinohara is describing a sort of pokemon-esque system where different Kagunes work better against others.

So, the Bin brothers' bikaku kagune in their enhanced quinque suppressed Kaneki's kakuji regeneration?
So, one clean hit from Chi She was enough for Yoshimura to disable his regeneration? Let me remind you that Chi She is a koukaku, and Yoshimura and ukaku are both vulnerable to koukaku.

This has nothing to do with regeneration overall, this is attacks by certain kagunes and quinques are harder to regenerate against. Some of the examples you've shown are that exact thing.

Yes, some kagune and quinque suppress regeneration, which can bypass other kagune's regeneration suppression.

Here is an example where it's specifically the Kagune/quinque used that is the issue: Kaneki (a rinkaku haver) is attacked by the Bin brother's Bikaku kagune made quinque, it stops Kaneki from regenerating from. Additionally Kaneki also thinks the damage is simply too much as a reason why he can't regenerate too so this can be a reason for other examples.

Lol, no. Kaneki is literally surprised why he can't regenerate. It's a direct question of "Was the damage that bad?" His very words suggest that this kind of injury shouldn't be a problem for him. And he realizes what's wrong when he realizes the wound was inflicted by the Bins' kagune, which is a bikaku.

 

[Arkenis]

So, the Bin brothers' bikaku kagune in their enhanced quinque suppressed Kaneki's kakuji regeneration?
So, one clean hit from Chi She was enough for Yoshimura to disable his regeneration? Let me remind you that Chi She is a koukaku, and Yoshimura and ukaku are both vulnerable to koukaku.

Yes, some kagune and quinque suppress regeneration, which can bypass other kagune's regeneration suppression.

Lol, no. Kaneki is literally surprised why he can't regenerate. It's a direct question of "Was the damage that bad?" His very words suggest that this kind of injury shouldn't be a problem for him. And he realizes what's wrong when he realizes the wound was inflicted by the Bins' kagune, which is a bikaku.

Ник, аргумент прост. В «Токийском Гуле» регенерация замедляется конкретным использованием кацуне/кинкве. Это замедление регенерации не означает замедление феномена регенерации в целом. Ты сам с этим согласился на примере братьев Бин.

Примеры, которые ты привел, где персонажи регенерируют после атак даже против их уязвимого кацуне, означают лишь то, что у этой гуль есть лучшая устойчивость к нему.

Nik, the argument is simple. In Tokyo Ghoul, the regeneration is stunted by the specific kagune/quinque used. This stunting of regeneration is not a stunting of the phenomenon Regeneration in it's entirety. You've just agreed with that by the Bin brothers example. The examples you've shown where character regenerate from attacks even against their vulnerable kagune means the ghoul simply has a better resistant to it.

 

[NikHelton]

Ник, аргумент прост. В «Токийском Гуле» регенерация замедляется конкретным использованием кацуне/кинкве. Это замедление регенерации не означает замедление феномена регенерации в целом. Ты сам с этим согласился на примере братьев Бин.

Примеры, которые ты привел, где персонажи регенерируют после атак даже против их уязвимого кацуне, означают лишь то, что у этой гуль есть лучшая устойчивость к нему.

Ghouls can't regenerate these wounds until they replenish their RC cells. Nishiki couldn't repair the hole in his stomach even after several days.
Whereas they don't need to recover from injuries not caused by their kagune.

 

[DarthSorox]

This regeneration block would logically work in combat with other characters, and since Kaneki resists it, he should logically have enhanced resistance. It seems you're the only one arguing with this, while the other supporters agree.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

No one is saying that Kagunes are a weakness to ghouls. Shinohara tells Juuzo how different types of Kagune's RC cells act as an effective poison against other types. In reality, Shinohara doesn't mean this in a literal sense, on the same page Shinohara is describing a sort of pokemon-esque system where different Kagunes work better against others.

This has nothing to do with regeneration overall, this is attacks by certain kagunes and quinques are harder to regenerate against. Some of the examples you've shown are that exact thing.

Here is an example where it's specifically the Kagune/quinque used that is the issue: Kaneki (a rinkaku haver) is attacked by the Bin brother's Bikaku kagune made quinque, it stops Kaneki from regenerating from. Additionally Kaneki also thinks the damage is simply too much as a reason why he can't regenerate too so this can be a reason for other examples.

These examples you've posted aren't really examples, it's more so some ghouls have a better resistant or more with Kaneki, his kakuja state simply lets him regenerate better even against the better kagune type.

My brother in christ that is because his kakuhou got torn out of him. Notice the giant hole in his stomach.

 

[Arkenis]

Nishiki couldn't repair the hole in his stomach even after several days.
Whereas they don't need to recover from injuries not caused by their kagune.

The one Tsukiyama did? Nishiki was weak during that fight, you can read that arc again.

This regeneration block would logically work in combat with other characters, and since Kaneki resists it, he should logically have enhanced resistance. It seems you're the only one arguing with this, while the other supporters agree.

No a mod also just disagreed with it and see it as I have.

My brother in christ that is because his kakuhou got torn out of him. Notice the giant hole in his stomach.

We're talking about Kaneki's reaction here. Kaneki wonders why he isn't regenerating, thinking the damage is too much but soon realizes it's because of the Bin brother's quinque (Bikaku) is a weakness to him.

 

[DarthSorox]

The one Tsukiyama did? Nishiki was weak during that fight, you can read that arc again.

Nik is probably referring to the wound Kaneki inflicted on him. When Kimi came to him a few days after the events, Nishiki was still vomiting blood and saying his wounds weren't healing. Maybe you forgot about it.

We're talking about Kaneki's reaction here. Kaneki wonders why he isn't regenerating, thinking the damage is too much but soon realizes it's because of the Bin brother's quinque (Bikaku) is a weakness to him.

He'd literally never thought anything like that. He looks at the wound and is confused and shocked that it's not healing. At the very least, he didn't expect there to be a problem with wounds like that. Then he asks, "Was there too much damage/was the wound too big?" expressing doubt about his own questions. After all, the problem is that his core was ripped out, and it was his bikaku kagune that did it.

 

[NikHelton]

Some time after being wounded by Kaneki, he vomits blood and says his wounds aren't healing

A few days later, we see him still wounded and so weakened that he's being beaten by ghoul-eaters, which even Kaneki, a Kagune-less BoS, was able to defeat

A day or two later, he's in a dying state and can barely move

 

[Arkenis]

He can't heal because he's too weak from the injuries and is unable to go and eat because he's afraid of the doves. Zero to do with regeneration negation. Try a different example or just drop this, Vietthai96 basically rejected it already.

 

[DarthSorox]

Bro, this is just ridiculous. Several examples were given above of ghoul regeneration working with normal injuries, but when it comes to kagune injuries, they're too exhausted and need to replenish their energy. Yes, the poison blocks regeneration and weakens ghouls. That's how it works. Vietthai expressed doubts, but didn't dismiss anything. Nik showed that it works on humans as well, so it works as a regeneration denial. Sorry, but all I see now is you simply playing denial.

 

[Arkenis]

It's quite literally not poison. I explained this above and you and Nik just misconstrue Shinohara's explanation. And Vietthai expressed the same thing I've been arguing, this is specific to Ghouls. If I'm coming off like denial, it's because this is potentially the weakest argument for regen negation I have ever seen someone argue.

 

[DarthSorox]

Poison still works on hybrids who are still genetically human. What other examples do you need? There are no more races with regenerative abilities in the TG world.
Wait for a moderator's response before misleading everyone.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

He can't heal because he's too weak from the injuries and is unable to go and eat because he's afraid of the doves. Zero to do with regeneration negation. Try a different example or just drop this, Vietthai96 basically rejected it already.

Why is he weak and dying and unable to reach to his fullest strength prior to this?

 

[Arkenis]

Poison still works on hybrids who are still genetically human. What other examples do you need? There are no more races with regenerative abilities in the TG world.
Wait for a moderator's response before misleading everyone.

I didn't mislead anything. The post just has terrible clarification and I'm offering it, Nik just left out why Nishiki couldn't heal, very clearly brought on by his lack of eating humans. And how would it be misleading to give my opinion if others don't even know the context?

We need clear statements and feats of regeneration negation. Right now all that's been shown is Ghouls' regeneration hindered by other Ghouls. That is simply not how regeneration negation is accepted. You guys can't even show why supposed regen negation happens

Why is he weak and dying and unable to reach to his fullest strength prior to this?

Because Kaneki almost killed him. He was weak from it and couldn't eat humans because of the doves, I put this in what you're replying to.

 

[DarthSorox]

I didn't mislead anything. The post just has terrible clarification and I'm offering it, Nik just left out why Nishiki couldn't heal, very clearly brought on by his lack of eating humans. And how would it be misleading to give my opinion if others don't even know the context?

We need clear statements and feats of regeneration negation. Right now all that's been shown is Ghouls' regeneration hindered by other Ghouls. That is simply not how regeneration negation is accepted. You guys can't even show why supposed regen negation happens


Because Kaneki almost killed him. He was weak from it and couldn't eat humans because of the doves, I put this in what you're replying to.

Let me repeat: the kagune slowed Kaneki's regeneration. He was a genetic human. This is already a clear example that the poison works not only on ghouls. Incidentally, in your scan, Kaneki damaged Nishiki with his kagune and was weakened. He was weakened by the wound and the inability to heal it. He doesn't hesitate to eat people; he already tried to kill Hide. If he had the strength, he would have tried to kill Kimi as well.

 

[Arkenis]

Let me repeat: the kagune slowed Kaneki's regeneration. He was a genetic human. This is already a clear example that the poison works not only on ghouls.

He is half ghoul and that is where his regeneration comes from. We do not give regen neg for something like this.

Incidentally, in your scan, Kaneki damaged Nishiki with his kagune and was weakened. He was weakened by the wound and the inability to heal it.

All he needed was human meat to heal. That is not regen neg, that is the inability to heal because you're weakened. Something very common in fiction.

He doesn't hesitate to eat people; he already tried to kill Hide. If he had the strength, he would have tried to kill Kimi as well.

Read the scan

He can't heal because he's too weak from the injuries and is unable to go and eat because he's afraid of the doves. Zero to do with regeneration negation. Try a different example or just drop this, Vietthai96 basically rejected it already.

 

[DarthSorox]

So why don't ghouls weaken after other injuries? Kaneki instantly regenerated after being pierced through. Kanae had no problem when Kaneki tore her head off, but she weakened against kagune attacks.

Regen neg comes in different forms. In the case of ghouls, RC cells activate telomeres, which easily heal wounds by replenishing energy. There's a more powerful regen neg that prevents the wound from ever being repaired by any means. Regarding telomeres, this is where regeneration differs between humans and ghouls. Half-ghouls regenerate differently, using up their telomeres. Ghouls, on the other hand, have a special enzyme that prevents telomeres from wearing out.

 

[Arkenis]

So why don't ghouls weaken after other injuries? Kaneki instantly regenerated after being pierced through. Kanae had no problem when Kaneki tore her head off, but she weakened against kagune attacks.

What injuries? Some ghouls just have better endurance/more rc cells to shrug off injuries while others don't. Rize was gonna die from metal beams falling on her and was only saved by Kanou. And Kanae is stronger than a regular ghoul, she was given a bone by Eto which made her stronger. Kanae also got up from the kagune attack next chapter.

 

[Vietthai96]

It's never been stated anywhere that kagune is a ghoul's weakness. We've even seen examples of ghouls eating kagune and suffering no ill effects (when Kaneki ate Yamori's and Eto's kagune, he only became stronger; Ayato also ate Touka's kagune and kakuhou). It's odd to think this only applies to them.

Kaneki is still a human with human limitations, despite possessing ghoul physiology. His genes, his cells, are precisely human. He simply has ghoul abilities, including regeneration. And denying kagune regeneration worked on him as well. We simply know that characters with regeneration cannot properly heal wounds from kagune and quinque.
It's not some kind of kryptonite, not a special element possessed only by ghouls. This isn't banal garlic, sunlight, or silver, which are harmless to everyone except vampires and werewolves. RC cells are present in absolutely every living being; they're simply analogous to iron in the blood. It's worth considering the equalization factor between universes in matches.
Therefore, the idea of a "specific weakness" sounds like a question of mistrust.

Literally you said Kaneki has regen due to his ghoul abilities, he don't have regeneration because he is human, he being half-ghoul with regen doesn't mean you can scale ghoul regen to human

RC cell literally presents in every being in Ghoul universe, not every universes. Idk why you mention versus match-up here, but if there is a vsmatch, human from other verses will not have RC cell, we don't equalize verse specific thing like that

This seems like limited weakness against some specific thing

Like, literally, you said one type of ghoul are vulnerable against some other types, or against certain techniques; how it isn't some specific weakness again certain thing or condition?, also it is pretty much in verse since ghoul counter each others, vampire thing, sunlight and other are universal thing across all medies, so you are making false equivalent

 

[NikHelton]

Literally you said Kaneki has regen due to his ghoul abilities, he don't have regeneration because he is human, he being half-ghoul with regen doesn't mean you can scale ghoul regen to human

Kaneki's DNA is still human, with human telomeres responsible for regeneration. I simply showed that the kagune poison doesn't care whether you're a ghoul or a human for it to work on you.

RC cell literally presents in every being in Ghoul universe, not every universes. Idk why you mention versus match-up here, but if there is a vsmatch, human from other verses will not have RC cell, we don't equalize verse specific thing like that

However, RC cells affect telomeres and poison a person.

Like, literally, you said one type of ghoul are vulnerable against some other types, or against certain techniques; how it isn't some specific weakness again certain thing or condition?, also it is pretty much in verse since ghoul counter each others, vampire thing, sunlight and other are universal thing across all medies, so you are making false equivalent

Okay, let's remove the particularly effective kagune from the list.

This way, we'll see that the kagune slows and blocks regeneration until the cells are replenished. Some ghouls resist this. There are more powerful quinques that bypass their resistance. Will this work?

 

[NikHelton]

I think I can apply the other of the changes now.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

OP looks fine to me.

 

[NikHelton]

Bump

 

[NikHelton]

This is self-regeneration negation

The translator distorted the meaning.
This is a wound that was inflicted on the enemy.

We still have examples of ghouls regenerating damage from physical attacks without any problem, but having difficulty with kagune.

The power nullification page also states the following:

"The effect may be temporary or permanent, and may be restricted by touch, or be something the user can apply to any ability they see, or within a field that negates any powers within"

So the fact that ghouls can regain regeneration after restoring RC doesn't negate the regeneration negation and regeneration slowdown.

 

[NikHelton]

@Theglassman12 @Dereck03 @Godernet @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Vietthai96

What are you think?