TenSura Revision (LN) — Veldanava returns from buying Milk

[Astral_Trinity439]

I am already going for that, but their is a catch, he will return to his "true dragon" key, when dying, and can likely return to his prime key at any time as a true dragon.

Yep

I am fine with that then, if we also rename the key for now.

That works for me. Have added it in the OP

Also, <True Dragon> key should be renamed to <Pre-Creation> to accommodate for future keys.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

General summary of proposals?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

General summary of proposals?

1. Skills and Magic (basically all abilities in-verse) work based on the World Language (laws of the world). World Language is what grants everyone their skills.
2. Veldanava gets all abilities that exist in-verse because he created them as well as their framework (world language)
3. Veldanava's current "true dragon" key renamed to "Pre-Creation" key to accomodate for better key divisions in the future.

 

[Mizuki67]

Don't think it's long, but anyayas, Tl;Dr:

VOTW is an automated system that speaks during an evolutionary phase of something or someone, it is not infact the a system that regulates skills

 

[Mizuki67]

You are correct on him creating laws and all, but there's no direct true system for skills in LN, just souls transmission.

 

[AlexSamDen]

VOTW is an automated system that speaks during an evolutionary phase of something or someone, it is not infact the a system that regulates skills

Did you even read scans in the OP?

Skills are based on the roots of the laws of this world, the power rooted in the ‘soul.’ It could be granted by the ‘Voice of the World’ after repeated practice or great achievements

What does "granted by the 'Voice of the World'" mean to you?

 

[Mizuki67]

Did you even read scans in the OP?

What does "granted by the 'Voice of the World'" mean to you?

It just handles information. Eg, when you use a skill and it provides some sort of feedback, that information is converted into the world language and then the user can understand it

 

[Mizuki67]

Or when you cast magic the information/thoughts/desire behind the spell is converted into the world languageIts a natural phenomena that deals in informationSo if you obtain a skill or cast a spell that "information" is conveyed to you in a way you can understand

 

[AlexSamDen]

It just handles information. Eg, when you use a skill and it provides some sort of feedback, that information is converted into the world language and then the user can understand it

Then "granted" wouldn't be used. It would be "explained by WL", " supported by WL" or "work on WL", but not " granted". "Granted" has a distinct meaning, which does not fall under anything you described

 

[Mizuki67]

F

Then "granted" wouldn't be used. It would be "explained by WL", " supported by WL" or "work on WL", but not " granted". "Granted" has a distinct meaning, which does not fall under anything you described

Fun fact what you presented isn't even located in the OTL

 

[Mizuki67]

```“Still, I can perform research into it. And what I found was that in this world, magic is the power to interfere with the laws of nature. There’s a mysterious set of laws to this world—people call them the World Language—and when you earn a new power, or the value of your life rises in some way, like when you evolve, then that’s how nature tells you about it. Magic runs under the same rules as this World Language; when you cast the spell, it turns that nonphysical phenomenon into real life. And if you look at it the other way…”
```
The word "granted" isn't in the OTL, so do not try to sugarcoat things, it says "announce" the VOTW isn't a skill system its an automated machine

 

[AlexSamDen]

Fun fact what you presented isn't even located in the OTL

Fun fact: it is

One could also receive them from the World Language after training hard enough or performing an impressive feat.

 

[AlexSamDen]

The word "granted" isn't in the OTL, so do not try to sugarcoat things, it says "announce" the VOTW isn't a skill system its an automated machine

And let's not pretend you don't know how flawed OTL sometimes is and what is the reason we usually compare OTL and Slimereader and sometimes wiki TL in our threads

Also fun fact: it's both a skill system and an automated machine, one does not exclude the other

 

[Mizuki67]

And let's not pretend you don't know how flawed OTL sometimes is and what is the reason we usually compare OTL and Slimereader and sometimes wiki TL in our threads

Also fun fact: it's both a skill system and an automated machine, one does not exclude the other

---

最近の進化祭りや、帝国の強者達との戦いで得た情報から、俺の中で疑問が生じていたのだ。
能力(スキル)とは、この世界での法則の根本にして、〝魂〟に根付く力だ。
修練を繰り返したり、偉大な功績を挙げたりすると、〝世界の言葉〟によって授けられたりもする。
今まで深く考えなかったが、不思議な現象なのだ。
そういうものとして流していたのだが……ここ一連の流れの中で、無視出来ない疑問となっていた。

From the recent Evolution Festival and the battles with the Empire’s mighty warriors, a question has arisen within me.
Skills are the very foundation of this world’s laws, powers rooted deep within the soul.
Through repeated training or the achievement of great deeds, they are announced by the Voice of the World.
I had never thought deeply about it before, merely accepting it as a strange phenomenon.
But through this chain of events, that mystery has become a question I can no longer ignore.

 

[AlexSamDen]

---

最近の進化祭りや、帝国の強者達との戦いで得た情報から、俺の中で疑問が生じていたのだ。
能力(スキル)とは、この世界での法則の根本にして、〝魂〟に根付く力だ。
修練を繰り返したり、偉大な功績を挙げたりすると、〝世界の言葉〟によって授けられたりもする。
今まで深く考えなかったが、不思議な現象なのだ。
そういうものとして流していたのだが……ここ一連の流れの中で、無視出来ない疑問となっていた。

And whose TL is that?

 

[Mizuki67]

And whose TL is that?

Re

 

[AlexSamDen]

Re

Mind elaborating?

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Re

Re uses google translate. Or at least on 1 thing.do they actually know Japanese?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

VOTW is an automated system that speaks during an evolutionary phase of something or someone, it is not infact the a system that regulates skills

Did you even read the scans? -_-

Or when you cast magic the information/thoughts/desire behind the spell is converted into the world languageIts a natural phenomena that deals in informationSo if you obtain a skill or cast a spell that "information" is conveyed to you in a way you can understand

I don't think you even understand how the world language works. But regardless, I'll response to your arguments:

最近の進化祭りや、帝国の強者達との戦いで得た情報から、俺の中で疑問が生じていたのだ。
能力(スキル)とは、この世界での法則の根本にして、〝魂〟に根付く力だ。
修練を繰り返したり、偉大な功績を挙げたりすると、〝世界の言葉〟によって授けられたりもする。
今まで深く考えなかったが、不思議な現象なのだ。
そういうものとして流していたのだが……ここ一連の流れの中で、無視出来ない疑問となっていた。

I don't really trust R.E in translations right now because she didn't translate the scans I sent before, and when she did reply about them, it was an answer completely different from official translators like @SeijiSetto.
These are all the translation from otl and raws.

Skills are based on the roots of the laws of this world, the power rooted in the ‘soul.’ It could be granted by the ‘Voice of the World’ after repeated practice or great achievements. It was a strange phenomenon that I hadn’t really thought about much until now. That’s how I had always went about it…but in the course of events that had taken place, it had become a question that I could not ignore. In other words… (Slimereader)

Skills were a type of power that took root in one’s soul, following the rules this world worked under. One could also receive them from the World Language after training hard enough or performing an impressive feat. I never gave them much deep thought, but really, it was an odd phenomenon. I’d just written it off as “that sort of thing” before…but during all this, I now had a question I couldn’t ignore any longer. (OTL)

In your own raws that you quoted, the line used is:

修練を繰り返したり、偉大な功績を挙げたりすると、〝世界の言葉〟によって授けられたりもする。

Which literally means To Impart/Grant/Instruct/Confer, all of which in this context mean the same thing, that VoTW grants problem skills.

And these are a few other scans to prove that the system manages skills too, not just souls:

Spoiler: Scans - Slimereader

Masayuki spoke his mind. At that moment, the ‘Voice of the World’ sounded in his head.

«Acknowledgement of the Hero’s ‘Courage not to Run.’ This satisfies the three conditions and releases the hidden power of the Unique Skill ‘Chosen One.’ Do you wish to activate it? YES/NO»

Huh? Masayuki was confused. He was worried that he’d done something wrong again, but was relieved to find out that wasn’t the case. He wasn’t interested in any hidden powers, but it was too late anyway, so he decided to approve it for now.

«Confirmed, now adding a new power to the Unique Skill ‘Chosen One’… Successful. From now on, ‘Champion’s Guide’ will always be in effect.»

“When I fought Veldanava, he had many powers, but after the world was stabilized, he left only the strongest one, the ‘Justice King,’ and gave some of them away, releasing all that remained into the world. As a result, those powers were taken into the circle of reincarnation and appeared in the world in the form of qualified and strong souls. However, the Ultimate Skills were too strong, and were restricted to the unique level. They can be scattered among various Skills, or become a ‘Virtue’ type Unique Skill while retaining a certain amount of authority.”

“You said that the power Veldanava unleashed was taken into the circle of reincarnation and came to reside in a strong soul.”

Just like me, Michael—No, rather, ‘Justice KingMichael,’ whose ego as a Manas had faded and returned to mere skill, seemed to be puzzled by the proposal. Chloe’s proposal was to let it choose between disappearing or staying in this world with Chloe as its master. There was no easy answer, and it seemed like ‘Justice KingMichael’ would disappear and time would start to move on—but at that moment, the ‘Voice of the World’ echoed in the ‘Suspended World.’

«It is confirmed that the three elements of ‘Courage,’ ‘Hope,’ and ‘Justice’ have been gathered in the Individual: Chloe Aubert. This fills in the missing elements of the Ultimate Skill ‘Hope King Sariel,’ and begins the complete integration into the Ultimate Skill ‘Spacetime King Yog-Sothoth’…Successful. Ultimate Skill ‘Spacetime King Yog-Sothoth’ has fully evolved into Ultimate Skill ‘Spacetime God (Yog-Sothoth).’»

Or when you cast magic the information/thoughts/desire behind the spell is converted into the world languageIts a natural phenomena that deals in informationSo if you obtain a skill or cast a spell that "information" is conveyed to you in a way you can understand

This is pretty much explained with my computer-interpretor analogy. Pretty much exactly what Alex said:

Also fun fact: it's both a skill system and an automated machine, one does not exclude the other

---

So yeah, next time confirm what you are sending yourself instead of relying on others.

 

[Mizuki67]

Did you even read the scans? -_-

I don't think you even understand how the world language works. But regardless, I'll response to your arguments:

I don't really trust R.E in translations right now because she didn't translate the scans I sent before, and when she did reply about them, it was an answer completely different from official translators like @SeijiSetto.
These are all the translation from otl and raws.


In your own raws that you quoted, the line used is:

Which literally means To Impart/Grant/Instruct/Confer, all of which in this context mean the same thing, that VoTW grants problem skills.

And these are a few other scans to prove that the system manages skills too, not just souls:

This is pretty much explained with my computer-interpretor analogy. Pretty much exactly what Alex said:

---

So yeah, next time confirm what you are sending yourself instead of relying on others.

But you didn't try to defend this stance


The same Otl you think has your back on this

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

But you didn't try to defend this stance


The same Otl you think has your back on this

There's nothing that opposes what I said in this scan to begin with. If you really read my reply, I said this in the end:

This is pretty much explained with my computer-interpretor analogy. Pretty much exactly what Alex said:

Per my understanding, Magic is done when a magician takes takes whatever phenomena he wants to will (like for example, the action of generating fire), translates it into laws and formulae that the world language can direclty understand (the countless symbols you see in the magic circle) and then the world language takes that input and gives the output.

Kind of like how a computer's machine software is basically code (0s and 1s, equivalent to all laws), and when the user wants it to do something, he translates his instructions via a compiler/interpretor and gives it to the computer, which then creates what the user wants inside itself. However, the code the user gives cannot be outside the scope the computer's code (laws) encompass. Though with tensura some functions are interchanged, but the essence remains the same.

 

[Mizuki67]

There's nothing that opposes what I said in this scan to begin with. If you really read my reply, I said this in the end:

Per my understanding, Magic is done when a magician takes takes whatever phenomena he wants to will (like for example, the action of generating fire), translates it into laws and formulae that the world language can direclty understand (the countless symbols you see in the magic circle) and then the world language takes that input and gives the output.

Kind of like how a computer's machine software is basically code (0s and 1s, equivalent to all laws), and when the user wants it to do something, he translates his instructions via a compiler/interpretor and gives it to the computer, which then creates what the user wants inside itself. However, the code the user gives cannot be outside the scope the computer's code (laws) encompass. Though with tensura some functions are interchanged, but the essence remains the same.

Okay.
Then I agree, but why should Veldanava have all abilities?
Atp just give it to rimuru too

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Okay.
Then I agree, but why should Veldanava have all abilities?

Because he created the framework that all of them work on. And because of the "Law domination/manipulation" part too (the latter would technically apply to post creation Veldanava too)

Atp just give it to rimuru too

Because he doesn't have of them in LN (unlike in WN).
Though he prolly will soon. And he has most of the existing abilities in-verse anyways.

 

[Mizuki67]

Because he created the framework that all of them work on. And because of the "Law domination/manipulation" part too (the latter would technically apply to post creation Veldanava too)

Because he doesn't have of them in LN (unlike in WN).
Though he prolly will soon. And he has most of the existing abilities in-verse anyways.

You mean, he can utilise all of them, which rimuru can too?
To the best of my knowledge the only thing Veldanava can do is create something awfully similar to that very ability, the only skills he was born with were the ones that governed all of existence which originally existed as an authority. You remember how Veldanava didn't have any storage and because of that lost turn null? Despite having uriel.....yeah because his own version of uriel didn't have infinite prison or something similar. Just like how it was also confirmed that skills are rooted in the soul based on that person desire and they immediately recognise the ability and master it, Veldanava can most definitely achieve any skill he want since his uriel is awfully similar to rimuru shub niggurath (which kinda used uriel)
But outright using all abilites because he created those laws sounds dubious, it isn't like he is all powerful he too needs to master them

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

You mean, he can utilise all of them, which rimuru can too?

Rimuru is limited to the skills of his subordinates, while Veldanava is not.

To the best of my knowledge the only thing Veldanava can do is create something awfully similar to that very ability, the only skills he was born with were the ones that governed all of existence which originally existed as an authority.

??
I assume you're referring to post creation Veldanava's virtues?
If yes, then true, he can direclty only use those, but he can bring the se effects as all other ultimate skills in existence via Law domination (since he understands all the laws better than anyone else).

You remember how Veldanava didn't have any storage and because of that lost turn null?

That was, in fact, post creation Veldanava.
It's something like this:
Veldanava that created all laws and the concept of skills based on them -> Veldanava gave away most of those powers and was left with Void Collapse and Angelics -> He created the cardinal world using Void Collapse -> Lost Void Collapse and was left with the virtues only -> Gave away all the virtues and only kept Michael -> Gave Michael to Rudra and took Uriel -> Gave away all of his powers and became a human.

Despite having uriel.....yeah because his own version of uriel didn't have infinite prison or something similar.

That isn't confirmed tho? His Uriel was for managing space and events, the first part can theoretically hold infinite prison too.

Just like how it was also confirmed that skills are rooted in the soul based on that person desire
They immediately recognise the ability and master it, Veldanava can most definitely achieve any skill he want since his uriel is awfully similar to rimuru shub niggurath (which kinda used uriel)

Yet those skills are given by VoTW in response to those desires, and are, too, ultimately based on the laws of the world.

But outright using all abilites because he created those laws sounds dubious, it isn't like he is all powerful he too needs to master them

I mean, that's what Law domination is. You can bring about ANY phenomena as long as you understand the laws behind them... And Veldanava created the laws behind all phenomena, of course he'll understand them the best.

 

[Mizuki67]

Rimuru has law domination and wdym "limited" when ciel crafted those abilities herself

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Rimuru has law domination and wdym "limited" when ciel crafted those abilities herself

We know Rimuru can use all the abilities of his subordinates, yeah, that's never something I denied.

But he can't just go on and use abilities that Ciel never analysed or made. For example, Lucifer, Indra, Vayu, Yog Sotohort (God version, since Ciel has analyzed the King version only), etc. are abilities Ciel/Raphael never analyzed, so we don't know if Rimuru can use them.

These are the abilities he has for now, tho:

Shub-Niggurath/Skill Storage

Gabriel, Lord of Patience Metatron, Lord of Purity Michael, Lord of Justice Raguel, Lord of Charity Raphael, Lord of Wisdom Sariel, Lord of Hope Uriel, Lord of Vows Astarte, Lord of Heaven Azrael, Lord of Salvation Haniel, Lord of Glory Israfil, Lord of Trials Jibril, Lord of Rigor Melchizedek...

tensura.fandom.com

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

General summary of proposals?

Hi DD, I know you're busy but could you please give your vote regarding the summary?

1. Skills and Magic (basically all abilities in-verse) work based on the World Language (laws of the world). World Language is what grants everyone their skills.
2. Veldanava gets all abilities that exist in-verse because he created them as well as their framework (world language)
3. Veldanava's current "true dragon" key renamed to "Pre-Creation" key to accomodate for better key divisions in the future.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Bump

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Bump

 

[Napoleonic01]

Bump

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

1. Skills and Magic (basically all abilities in-verse) work based on the World Language (laws of the world). World Language is what grants everyone their skills.
2. Veldanava gets all abilities that exist in-verse because he created them as well as their framework (world language)
3. Veldanava's current "true dragon" key renamed to "Pre-Creation" key to accomodate for better key divisions in the future.

Looks good to me.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Bump

Prolly so your first so you wouldn't know, but don't bump threads that have been bumped in the past 12 hours homie

 

[Elizhaa]

These changes look fine.

 

[Shiraito983]

We got some grace

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

We got some grace

Indeed, but we might need another staff vote cuz of the rules

 

[K'rimuru]

Indeed, but we might need another one cuz of the rules

You are active from 7 a.m., you have faith

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

You are active from 7 a.m., you have faith

It's 10AM here lol

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

These changes look fine.

Looks good to me.

Could one of you please ping some active staff that you know?
I think due to how many abilities Veldanava will get from this, it might need another staff vote.

 

[K'rimuru]

It's 10AM here lol

I forgot that not everyone lives in France lol