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Hello everyone, hope y'all are doing well. Since the pending translations for the staff thread is taking too long, let's get another small upgrade done with since it's unrelated to tiering and is just hax.
Note that I've included Slimereader version for all the scans that had a slimereader version (which doesn't include V5 and prior) As always, avoid any toxic behavior or derailing!
Table of Contents
What the current keys of Veldanava say
Well, looking at the profile, it's clear that right now we only have two keys, the "true dragon" version and the "God" version.
BUUTTT going by the hax section of the True Dragon key, we can see that he only has abilities from the Seven Virtues (Angelic Skills), and that's a problem. But from the AP section, we also treat this key as the creator of VoTW (World Language).
The Problem that went to buy Milk
But that's where the problem comes in. You see, the World Language isn't just a set of laws that Virtues work on, it's what ALL Magic and Skills work on in general:
“Still, I can perform research into it. And what I found was that in this world, magic is the power to interfere with the laws of nature. There’s a mysterious set of laws to this world—people call them the World Language—and when you earn a new power, or the value of your life rises in some way, like when you evolve, then that’s how nature tells you about it. Magic runs under the same rules as this World Language; when you cast the spell, it turns that nonphysical phenomenon into real life. And if you look at it the other way…”
Yuuki paused. I tried to guess where this was going. Look at it the other way…
“Everything has a cause and an effect, and if you figure out the laws behind all that, you might even be able to find a way home…is what you’re saying?”
I was familiar with the World Language. My skill, the Great Sage, used the term when talking to me. It was my familiarity with it that led me to that conclusion.
“…Right. That’s very good, Rimuru. I’m surprised… You understood a conceptthat I had to spend years researching.”
Take the concept of “returning home,” render it into a set of laws, and translate it into the World Language. Easy for me to say, but trying to discover those laws would take a lifetime of research. Even with that much effort, it may not be possible at all.
But if you were able to interfere with the World Language on a deeper level… OTL V4C5
The difference between unique and ultimate skills isn’t necessarily insurmountable. The strength of a skill is easily swayed by the owner’s mind; it likely took a stronger will to extract better effects from them. Skills are, at the core, the ability to affect the laws of the world simply by wishing it were so. Activating such power, the kind that impacts the very root of the world, is impossible without a steel will. OTL V16C2
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Next, the difference between Unique Skills and Ultimate Skills are not absolute. The strength of an acquired Skill is easily affected by the owner’s ego. A strong will is needed to make it more effective. A Skill is the power to influence the laws of the world simply by wishing for it. In order to exercise such a fundamental power, it is impossible to do so with a half-hearted willpower. When you look at it in this way, it’s clear that the most important thing is willpower. This is followed by a thorough understanding of the nature of the Skill and exploring how to use it properly. Slimereader
Skills were a type of power that took root in one’s soul, following the rules this world worked under. One could also receive them from the World Language after training hard enough or performing an impressive feat. I never gave them much deep thought, but really, it was an odd phenomenon. I’d just written it off as “that sort of thing” before…but during all this, I now had a question I couldn’t ignore any longer. OTL V16C2
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Skills are based on the roots of the laws of this world, the power rooted in the ‘soul.’ It could be granted by the ‘Voice of the World’ after repeated practice or great achievements. It was a strange phenomenon that I hadn’t really thought about much until now. That’s how I had always went about it…but in the course of events that had taken place, it had become a question that I could not ignore. In other words… Slimereader
In essence, the laws governing this world were originally crafted by Veldanava, but these laws could be influenced and affected by those with administrative power over them. Even if you didn’t have that, however, you could make a request in your mind, instill it into your magicules, and that would rewrite the laws of the world to some extent as well. That was the basic concept behind magic, which was a type of ability. Skills, the way Guy put it, were a kind of systemized approach to influencing and altering these laws. OTL V18C1
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The laws of this world were established by Veldanava, but it seems that anyone with the right administrative power can influence those laws.
Even if you don’t have that power, you can still rewrite the laws to some extent by intervening with your wish in magicules. In other words, this was the concept of magic, a kind of power.
A Skill is something that has been systematized to a certain extent so that it can influence these laws. Slimereader
First off, it weakens you a lot. Which, yeah, of course it does—I took all their soul energy out. I’ve taken their souls, and there’s no real reason for me to give them back, and I don’t see how they have any right to complain about it.
So thanks to that, they’re no longer able to invoke any skills. Even if skill data was written into their hearts, they can’t use it at all without enough soul energy. From now until the natural end of their lives, they’ve got no hope of learning or using a single skill.
It’ll also affect their magic-casting abilities, but that at least is something they oughtta be able to improve with practice. Once they get the hang of it to some extent, they’ll be able to tap into magic without using any soul power. Magic is a skill, but it’s also an art, and that means it’s possible to invoke it with the magicules in the air instead of those in your body. So arts are still available to them, as long as they train themselves enough to earn them. Unless they rely on their skills for everything in their lives, I think they’ll bounce back just fine. OTL V13E
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Firstly, all of them would be drastically weakened, since their souls’ power had been taken by me, that was certain. Since I had robbed their souls clean, there was really no point in returning them. I honestly didn’t think they’d have the right to complain either. As a result, they wouldn’t be able to use their Skills in the future.
Even if their cores were imbued with information of Skills, they could not use them without the power of their souls. They wouldn’t have any chance to learn or use those Skills in the future either. It would also impact their ability to use magic, which they should also work on to improve for future references.
To some extent, if one were to get used to it, they could use magic even with a powerless soul. Magic was both a Skill and an Art, by utilizing the magicule in the air to replace their souls’ energy, they would be able manipulate principles of magic. Slimereader
All skills and magic (magic being a type of skill in essence) work on the laws of the world.
Skills are also granted by the Laws of the world.
Veldanava crafted these laws of the world/world language.
Using magic (and by its nature skills too) is basically about translating an action/phenomena into the world language and making the latter realize that phenomena into reality (kind of like doing the work of an interpretor in programming, translating high level languages into machine language that the computer can understand and work with).
So it's only natural to assume that Veldanava should have ALL skills, or at least be able to generate their affect, as he created the system/framework/laws that these skills work on.
And this isn't just me, characters in-verse also think the same, that limiting Veldanava to just pure/angelic skills is just coping:
“So you think he’s trying to collect only Veldanava’s genuine skills, and that’ll let him create the ‘complete’ Veldanava? This omnipotent being who’s created all abilities? It’s a pretty big concept to grasp, but if that’s what Michael wishes for, he’s probably not gonna get it. As long as Leon’s on our side, there’s no way he’ll get all the needed abilities.” OTL V18C1
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“A perfect Veldanava—In other words, gathering pure skills in order to recreate the omnipotent being that created all skills? It sounds far-fetched, but if that’s the case, I don’t think that wish is going to come true. With Leon over here, it’s impossible for them to gather all of the skills.” Slimereader
Note: There is absolutely no confirmation that Dagruel himself knows the difference between the Omnipotent All-In-One and the Creator Veldanava. We already know Guy also assumed Veldanava was Omnipotent BECAUSE he was the creator of the world, but Veldanava himself later explained otherwise. Going off the assumption that he doesn't know, we can assume he means the Creator Veldanava and not "God/All-One", since in the same chapter it says the creator of the laws is Veldanava, not the Omnipotent.
Also, "Omnipotent" itself as a word is also used metaphorically in-verse unless followed by "Omniscience" at the same time. Examples from the same volume (V18):
Arius had no time to be annoyed by this. He was aware enough of his current situation. He was brimming with unbelievable power; the omnipotence at his fingertips elated him. And the biggest change of all was the evolution of his unique skill Murderer into the ultimate enchantment Sandalphon, Lord of Judgment. Michael had retrieved this skill from Kondo and ferried it right over to Arius, consuming Murderer in the process.
During her evolution, Obela picked up the ultimate skill Azrael, Lord of Salvation. It was incredibly powerful, but ultimately useless to her. That was because, as a Primordial Angel, she was born with managerial abilities that were wholly non-reliant on skills. Primordials could instantly cast all kinds of magic, and that was enough to conduct their business without skills entering the picture. It was that resourcefulness that gave angels like her that aura of omnipotence.
So yeah, it's just referring to Veldanava as the REALLY FRICKIN POWERFUL being ¯\(ツ)/¯
Law Manipulation
Another reason why he should get all skills (or at least their effects and abilities) is because of a thing called "Law Dominantion" or its previous version "Law Manipulation", which is basically something that allows you to do anything as long as you understand the laws behind what you want to do.
Law Manipulation ｢法則操作, hōsoku sōsa, lit. "Law Operation"｣ is an Extra skill used by Rimuru and others under their Unique skills and Ultimate skills. It allows the user to directly manipulate the laws of the world. Applicable to all attributes,[1] it enables the user to engineer almost any...
tensura.fandom.com
Control Laws seemed like it’d let me engineer all kinds of phenomena through the control of magicules. The description was a lot of Greek to me, really, but for now I could have Raphael figure it out if I wanted something. OTL V5C5
Report. The unique skill Reverser is already integrated into the ultimate skill Uriel, Lord of Vows. Its effect can be re-created by applying Control Laws to metallic elements. Creating a new chaos core requires providing the correct conditions and materials to… OTL V6C2
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«Report. Unique Skill ‘Reverser’ has been compiled by Ultimate Skil “Covenant King Uriel.” This skill can now be replicated through the all-attribute-viable skill “Law Manipulation.” In addition, the production of “Chaos Core” would require the presence of the following ingredients under the conditions of—» Slimereader
ANNDDD Veldanava is basically the creator of the laws, he has the highest understanding of them one can have as the creator. So in theory he should be able to realize basically any phenomena he wants into existence.
So yeah, Tl;Dr --- Veldanava should get abilities of ALL skills that exist in-verse. As a result, VOTW also gets all the abilities listed in its profile since it is the very thing that grants them.
Also, <True Dragon> key should be renamed to <Pre-Creation> to accommodate for future keys.
Note: After God and Veldanava are separated into different profiles, Veldanava will have his profile divided into multiple keys like Post-Creation and Pre-Creation keys, and possibly more (like a key for when he only had Michael)
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For anyone wondering why in V18 Guy first said Veldanava had the virtues, it's because:
Veldanava only showed using those skills, not all.
Or, following the chronological order, Veldanava created the system and all skills -> then only kept 14 for himself -> later gave away even those 13 and only kept one (Michael) and AGAIN gave Michael to Rudra. So yeah, Veldanava's just smoking the nurf machine (or maybe he is the nurf machine himself) ¯\(ツ)/¯
Neutral:
____________________________________________________ After this, there will be some separate CRTs to add the ton shit of abilities our Milkman gets from this. See you next time!
Peak edit from my homie Joshy:
Yeah, but that was via Akashic Records (pretty much a super enhanced law domination if we compare WN and LN lol), Akashic Records itself doesn't exist in LN.
The Voice of the World「世界せかいの声こえ Sekai no Koe｣, also known as The World Language「世界せかいの言葉ことば Sekai no Kotoba｣ is the sentient embodiment of the laws or such as it is the World itself. Tier: 2-A Name: The Voice of the World Origin: Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Gender: None Age: Inapplicable...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Secondly, the God key and True Dragon key will be separate profiles in the future.
The Voice of the World「世界せかいの声こえ Sekai no Koe｣, also known as The World Language「世界せかいの言葉ことば Sekai no Kotoba｣ is the sentient embodiment of the laws or such as it is the World itself. Tier: 2-A Name: The Voice of the World Origin: Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Gender: None Age: Inapplicable...
After thinking about it, I have a small issue with this: He should only have access to the abilities that existed when he was "alive" in his true dragon key.
After thinking about it, I have a small issue with this: He should only have access to the abilities that existed when he was "alive" in his true dragon key.
After thinking about it, I have a small issue with this: He should only have access to the abilities that existed when he was "alive" in his true dragon key.
My response is pretty much what Alex said. New abilities still work on the laws of the world, so if we're giving him these abilities based on the first option (creation of votw, which itself can response to unique desires of everyone and grant them a unique skill), it would include all abilities that ever existed, exist, and will exist in-verse.
Veldanava didn't just create abilities, he created the framework of all abilities (skills and magic) too.
So yeah, Tl;Dr --- Veldanava should get abilities of ALL skills that exist in-verse. As a result, VOTW also gets all the abilities listed in its profile.
My response is pretty much what Alex said. New abilities still work on the laws of the world, so if we're giving him these abilities based on the first option (creation of votw, which itself can response to unique desires of everyone and grant them a unique skill), it would include all abilities that ever existed, exist, and will exist in-verse.
Veldanava didn't just create abilities, he created the framework of all abilities (skills and magic) too.
My issue is again, Veldanava was "dead", when the abilities were created, meaning saying he have them is just wrong. Not to mention how he grew weaker with time, sure I would say this would be fine if Veldanava return as a true dragon in the future, or we properlly split his profile into more correct keys, giving them this would be correct.
You and I both know that this doesn't matter. Something like "knowing all possible future things yet existing in the past" is a thing in fiction. Same logic as this.
And Veldanava can revive/regenerate anytime. Knowing his soul is unchanged, and knowing that Veldanava can easily think with his Soul or even heart core alone, we can't really say he's "dead". His soul (and beyond) was never destroyed.
Not to mention how he grew weaker with time, sure I would say this would be fine if Veldanava return as a true dragon in the future, or we properlly split his profile into more correct keys, giving them this would be correct.
This is EXPLICITLY for his first key (True Dragon) which we currently treat as "creator of VoTW". If it's the keys you have problem with, just make a CRT (or wait for one to be made) for the additional keys.
The key you're talking about is the Human key (Velda Nava) which doesn't exist in the profile, and never did.
and I both know that this doesn't matter. Something like "knowing all possible future things yet existing in the past" is a thing in fiction. Same logic as this.
And Veldanava can revive/regenerate anytime. Knowing his soul is unchanged, and knowing that Veldanava can easily think with his Soul or even heart core alone, we can't really say he's "dead". His soul (and beyond) was never destroyed.
This is EXPLICITLY for his first key (True Dragon) which we currently treat as "creator of VoTW". If it's the keys you have problem with, just make a CRT (or wait for one to be made) for the additional keys.
Nope. We already know his keys are the following: Pre-creation, post-creation, and Post-Milim (human). The issue for me is that I believe the true dragon key should also be separated to minimise the issues.
And that's not something the profile considers. Because the profile says this in the "true dragon" key
Attack Potency: Multiverse level+ (He is the Creator God that created the Voice of the World, the system that governs all worlds, and also the creator of the many worlds)
Pretty much. And that's why the purpose of this thread is to now treat that as Pre-Creation key (the one that has all abilities) and then create a new CRT for a separate key.
Doing both in a single thread will make the CRT too big.
I am already going for that, but their is a catch, he will return to his "true dragon" key, when dying, and can likely return to his prime key at any time as a true dragon.
Pretty much. And that's why the purpose of this thread is to now treat that as Pre-Creation key (the one that has all abilities) and then create a new CRT for a separate key.
tensura.fandom.com
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