(GRACE) Adding Pokemon Masters to the canon

[Bobsican]

Literally all you're saying is that it's noncanon so it doesn't deserve to be on mainline profiles, while ignoring any proof that it is and hoping that you've spammed enough to finally break through my defenses and any ability to fend you off.

Can you please quote your proof? That'd make evaluation easier.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Can you please quote your proof? That'd make evaluation easier.

It's in the post itself.

 

[Antvasima]

Everybody please calm down and strive to be respectful, polite, and kind here (and elsewhere in our community).

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Everybody please calm down and strive to be respectful, polite, and kind here (and elsewhere in our community).

I was under the impression that we just had, but I will attempt to stay calm further.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Minor Bump.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

All we're waiting on is for Imaginym to post his thoughts on the CRT.

 

[DaReaperMan]

All we're waiting on is for Imaginym to post his thoughts on the CRT.

Even if he agreed it'd be 3-1 favoring separate profiles when it comes to staff votes.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Even if he agreed it'd be 3-1 favoring separate profiles when it comes to staff votes.

You mean 2-1. And 3 agree with the original CRT, they just also agree that many Masters profiles should be separate, which while some characters in Masters are a perfect final outcome of their ordinary selves, some are just, like, some guy, so they would deserve separate profiles until further material is added.

 

[DaReaperMan]

You mean 2-1.

Ant, DDM, FinePoint. Three.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Ant, DDM, FinePoint. Three.

Antvasima never said he agreed on this CRT.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Antvasima never said he agreed on this CRT.

Go to page 5, and read Ant's post, and what he, and everyone else, is agreeing with.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Go to page 5, and read Ant's post, and what he, and everyone else, is agreeing with.

Yes... I can see that.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Proposal which I personally prefer: New profiles.

Now, enhance image quality...

This looks alright to me.

This is probably fine to apply then.

Now that this is out of the way, Sean, anything else?

Yes... I can see that.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Now, enhance image quality...


Now that this is out of the way, Sean, anything else?

I... don't know where you want me to go with that. I just looked at that.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I... don't know where you want me to go with that. I just looked at that.

Sean, what are Ant and DDM agreeing to with Finepoint's post?

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Sean, what are Ant and DDM agreeing to with Finepoint's post?

Oh, you were trying to rub it in. I just didn't lump Antvasima in with the other 3.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Oh, you were trying to rub it in. I just didn't lump Antvasima in with the other 3.

Other two. Imaginym hasn't voted yet. You're the one who said this:

Antvasima never said he agreed on this CRT.

So don't accuse me of rubbing it in when you're the one who straight up didn't keep track of votes.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Other two. Imaginym hasn't voted yet. You're the one who said this:

He's going to.

So don't accuse me of rubbing it in when you're the one who straight up didn't keep track of votes.

I was talking about my CRT, not the infection that Jinx666 tacked on.

 

[DaReaperMan]

He's going to.

Eventually, but not yet.

I was talking about my CRT, not the infection that Jinx666 tacked on.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Remember kids. This is all over Pokemon Canon.
Nintendo truly ****** a generation.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Minor Bump.

 

[Jinx666]

Its surely, finally settled now right?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Its surely, finally settled now right?

 

[OrangeFR]

Remember kids. This is all over Pokemon Canon.
Nintendo truly ****** a generation.

Nintendo has a really good track record of completely ******* the timeline and canon of their top franchises

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Where the dickens is that Imaginym with his verdict

 

[Jinx666]

Nintendo has a really good track record of completely ******* the timeline and canon of their top franchises

Its honestly not so bad if we all knew and agreed to stick within the given timelines/canons instead of compositing outright. Then we only have to deal with the inconsistencies presented within their respective timelines and not have to dwell on something from a completely separate branch of content dwelling on another

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Its honestly not so bad if we all knew and agreed to stick within the given timelines/canons instead of compositing outright. Then we only have to deal with the inconsistencies presented within their respective timelines and not have to dwell on something from a completely separate branch of content dwelling on another

Yes, yes, we all know how much you hate "compositing".

 

[Jinx666]

Please dont start on me again Sean.

The wiki as a whole doesn't composite for profiles.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Please dont start on me again Sean.

The wiki as a whole doesn't composite for profiles.

Correct. Something to do that we do do, dude, is general species profiles.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Break out the popcorn

 

[Jinx666]

Okay?

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Jesus ******* Christ, lay it off. Its ******* POKEMON.

 

[Jinx666]

Jesus ******* Christ, lay it off. Its ******* POKEMON.

Yeah, just like every fictional verse on this site lol. Ppl talk about it

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Minor Bump.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

@Imaginym Not to rush you or anything, take your time, but your verdict on this CRT may quite honestly affect the scaling and fate of the entire verse, so it would be good to hear an answer sooner rather than later.

 

[Imaginym]

My initial & current -However tentative that may be- impression is that this standpoint seems reasonable to uphold.

Worst comes to worst, points of contention can be gone over case by case, as seems to be par for the course.

No offense meant, all.

Having now checked the linked evidence provided in the opening post of this thread, I reiterate this stance, which was established June 21st, 2025, a time prior to my becoming a Thread Moderator, to clarify that I find it is reasonable, with the further clarification however that:
I find myself in agreement with the sentiments established in this post:

I'll elaborate, since I feel like my opinion can't really be easily summarized as "agree or disagrees".

Proposals I think would be unreasonable: Declaring it entirely non-canon and not using it at all.

Proposals I think would be reasonable: Secondary canon, new keys, new profiles, some combination of the previous three.

Proposal which I personally prefer: New profiles.

This looks alright to me.

Based on this, DDM also agreed with it.

As may likely be evident, my preference (& assuming their stance(s) haven't changed since August 1st & 2nd, 2025, the same is true for FinePoint & DarkDragonMedeus) is new profiles to be created, presumably for Masters EX content.
Treating them as Secondary Canon, with New Keys in addition to New Profiles &/or "some combination of the previous three", is also deemed reasonable; Presumably, the option of just "New Profiles" or the 3 as a whole or in some combination is to be determined based on a majority, & the majority will determine which precludes the other.
Should neither have the majority, then it would default to the just New profiles option.

@FinePoint @DarkDragonMedeus : Forgive me please for @-ing you, but given the amount of time passed & how impactful your clarifications of how you are voting here could be important, I would like you two to clarify, please:

Do you have any preference between:
A. Secondary canon, new keys, new profiles, some combination of the previous three.
OR
B. New profiles.

It is my understanding of the establishment of this stance by FinePoint's wording that should no preference for either of those two be distinguished, then preference should default to Option B, "New profiles".



BTW, if my saying so can be pardoned, please @Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera , @Jinx666 : You two often seem at odds & at an impasse with one another. While bumping a thread at a reasonable rate is fine, if you two don't have new content to contribute to a debate & your debate is primarily, if not specifically one another whom you know is likely to disagree with you, then try to avoid doing so, or at the very least, attempt to be polite.

 

[Jinx666]

Masters EX rolls with its own interpretations and takes, as well as crosses over these characters nonsensically (for the sake of a gacha game concept, which is fine in itself but it shouldn't be used as Pazdera is trying to do, in overriding and 'retconning' the mainline in order to make it take dominance). Theres an effort to explain using Hoopa portals, but even then that just creates more confirmed alternative characters that cant be lumped in with the mainline version fully. Masters EX still being ongoing and prone to any wild change off the bat, too its just better to put these versions of the characters in separate profiles as opposed to compositing.

This way, you get undisturbed profiles that can accomodate the crazy scaling implications for a crossover game, while also not having it interfere with the general state of the mainline. The only point in the OP that regards directly to Masters EX being canon is the fact that its writers make an attempt to write them in-character (as you'd expect), but theres otherwise no proof events and happenings in Pasio are in the same mainline as the standard games (especially when they contradict). The implications of making Masters EX secondary canon is just too unpredictable and inconsistent too, and adds far more workload no one is prepared to suitably deal with for something that will always be controversial. Its fine to use Masters EX for like, an extension of character i guess, but itas also worth mentioning that Masters EX entire battle system is different with completely new moves and abilities that arent referred to or accomodated in the mainline

Hence, if Pazdera wants to include Masters EX content, it is just far better as a whole to make them separate profiles. They still get all the implications of the mainline games they belong to, but without the need to try and retcon mainline in order to make it work.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Imaginym literally just told you to stop doing this. Besides, I know exactly what you're doing; you're hoping that the incoming mods that see this will take your side, despite the literal lies you continue to tell which I've debunked over and over and over again for 5 pages.

Masters EX rolls with its own interpretations and takes, as well as crosses over these characters nonsensically (for the sake of a gacha game concept, which is fine in itself but it shouldn't be used as Pazdera is trying to do, in overriding and 'retconning' the mainline in order to make it take dominance).

Masters doesn't do this nearly to the degree that you say it does, pretty much the only time they did this was making Leon still be unbeaten, and not only was that early in Masters' creation, if they didn't do that, you wouldn't even know about it to begin with.

Theres an effort to explain using Hoopa portals, but even then that just creates more confirmed alternative characters that cant be lumped in with the mainline version fully. Masters EX still being ongoing and prone to any wild change off the bat, too its just better to put these versions of the characters in separate profiles as opposed to compositing.

Why would Florian be lumped into the same profile as Juliana('s eventual profile), especially since he's treated as completely differently even in Masters itself? Marvel and DC Comics is also ongoing and even more prone to any wild change off the bat. Pretty much every gacha game we have on this site is still ongoing (except the Digimon ones) and nobody protests the gathering of their feats.

This way, you get undisturbed profiles that can accomodate the crazy scaling implications for a crossover game, while also not having it interfere with the general state of the mainline.

"Mainline" does this already. Wally from ORAS and Colress from BW are 2-A because of the Battle Tree, pretty much everyone in HGSS is 2-A because of Platinum's Battle Frontier, basically everyone in SwSh is 2-A because they scale to the Rental Pokemon in Dynamax Adventures somehow- hell, Daybreak Rei is Low 1-C due to straight up beating Arceus and was actually depowered when he went to Masters. Crazy crossover scaling has always been in Pokemon; It's not a Masters problem.

The only point in the OP that regards directly to Masters EX being canon is the fact that its writers make an attempt to write them in-character (as you'd expect), but theres otherwise no proof events and happenings in Pasio are in the same mainline as the standard games (especially when they contradict).

That is... one small part of one single piece of evidence that I listed. Why are you so focused on that bit when you haven't even debunked the other 3, or even the rest of the scan that you're talking about?

The implications of making Masters EX secondary canon is just too unpredictable and inconsistent too, and adds far more workload no one is prepared to suitably deal with for something that will always be controversial.

No, it doesn't. In fact it would make it very simple: It's basically canon but contradictions are ignored. Just in case you were talking about the amount of feats in the game, it's a good thing I've been collecting feats from it for years. And even then that doesn't mean it should be ignored

Its fine to use Masters EX for like, an extension of character i guess, but itas also worth mentioning that Masters EX entire battle system is different with completely new moves and abilities that arent referred to or accomodated in the mainline

Masters' battle system is basically just Triple Battles with Z-Moves. See the first question in the FAQs.

Hence, if Pazdera wants to include Masters EX content, it is just far better as a whole to make them separate profiles. They still get all the implications of the mainline games they belong to, but without the need to try and retcon mainline in order to make it work.

Even if you were right about everything, you're not but if you were, many characters in Masters are treated as the perfect natural conclusion of their game selves rather than some blank slate with a name and a Pokemon. For many of them, making separate profiles would be a needless distinction.

That being said, there are original characters made by and for Masters, so they would actually get original profiles.

 

[Jinx666]

Imaginym literally just told you to stop doing this. Besides, I know exactly what you're doing; you're hoping that the incoming mods that see this will take your side, despite the literal lies you continue to tell which I've debunked over and over and over again for 5 pages.

I was giving a TLDR of the overall stance, it wasn't to get into another argument with you. Which im not going to be doing so i wont be reading the rest of your post.

When theres two more options being given out by the Imaginym guy, then its worth reiterating briefly why its better to make separate profiles for Masters EX content. Thats perfectly reasonable to do

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

I was giving a TLDR of the overall stance, it wasn't to get into another argument with you. Which im not going to be doing so i wont be reading the rest of your post.

"I just wanted to come in and lie, so I'm going to ignore your entire argument against mine." Holy shit that's so ******* evil. Pokemon is way bigger than you can imagine and it's definitely not your personal playground. It wasn't even the overall stance, it was actual lies that you made up and no one is falling for. The literal only thing that anyone even remotely agrees with you on is the possibility of having separate profiles, which, by the way, you also lied about the validity and necessity of.

When theres two more options being given out by the Imaginym guy, then its worth reiterating briefly why its better to make separate profiles for Masters EX content. Thats perfectly reasonable to do

That's why you need to read my arguments, Jinx. And I thought you just said it was a TDLR of the overall stance. What you used it as is an opportunity to spit up all your talking points against me, against Pokemon, and against Masters, of which you have zero proof of and which ignores the entirety of both my arguments and the original post.