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All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

Huesito88 said:
Ruffy you going to change your pfp to Saitama now?
ru417w75eg7e1.png
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Here in Brazil we used a meme with Leon from Resident Evil 4 saying "i don't even read past two lines".
 
Shouldn't the shared worldview apply to giving the DBS Manga the same multipliers for forms?

Also we really need a revamp of dbs Manga speed scaling and have a dbs Manga Attack Potency blog like we do with the Anime
 
And yet the one sts crt I make where a guy onscreen blows up 5 universes is dead lol. (This is a subtle nod to the fact you guys should go agree with it)
 
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Narukana

Narukana is an Eternity Sword from outside the Time Tree, that was defeated by the 1st Rank Eternity Sword Holy Majesty. After her defeat, she was sealed in the Time Tree. Tier: Low 1-C | Low 1-C Key: Sealed | Unsealed Name: Narukana Origin: Seinarukana -The Spirit of Eternity Sword 2 Gender...
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What greater honor than Zamasu having to deal with these characters after receiving the Low 1-C tier?
 
Hayato5652 said:
vsbattles.fandom.com

Narukana

Narukana is an Eternity Sword from outside the Time Tree, that was defeated by the 1st Rank Eternity Sword Holy Majesty. After her defeat, she was sealed in the Time Tree. Tier: Low 1-C | Low 1-C Key: Sealed | Unsealed Name: Narukana Origin: Seinarukana -The Spirit of Eternity Sword 2 Gender...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
What greater honor than Zamasu having to deal with these characters after receiving the Low 1-C tier?
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Is there even anyone in Low 1-C that’ll be a fair fight for the Super characters if this passes? Who in the tier scales to exactly “one 5d hypertimeline and maybe a second one”, this is the same problem as the 2-C ranking, nobody scales to “3 universes times a fucktillion”.
 
After looking at the Dragon Ball's blogs, there are some problems that I ran into which I wishes to point out a few issues in this wall of text and the parts i delete i am fine with as i never said i have issues with the Multiverse Theory. Its just no one scales to the whole cosmology as Zeno exist multiple times in each timeline.:
The RoSaT is stated to have a different dimension[7]of time[8] comparative to realms like the Kaioshin Realm and Living World, which means their spatio-temporal separation involves distinct time dimensions, instead of multiple space-times sharing one time dimension.
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The RoSaT in fact is a small universe that exist next to this one, which was proven thanks to the wormhole Buu and Buu and Gotenks created
In essence, this details the fact that there’s a void without the concepts of time and space existing detached, but between from every dimension. Also, that despite this there exists dimensional boundaries that indicate the separation of space and time from these other dimensions.
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The Void clearly have a concept of time and space, otherwise the ToP can´t happen and wouldn´t have a timelimit. Some statements are contradictions and outdated.

The Living Universe​

The Living Universe is outright stated[16] to be a Universe. The Living Universe is where Goku and his friends reside. The Living Universe is divided into 4 quadrants[10]: east, west, north & south with each of them consisting of [10] and a respective Kai governing the said quadrant. It is an entirely separate dimension[10] from the Afterlife & the Kaioshin Realm.

infinite

countless galaxies
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There is actually nothing infinite in Dragonball, because:
The realm in which the Supreme Kais reside and look upon the the universe. It was said to be 1/10 of the afterlife and living world[6] and the Kaioshin oversee the universe this way. It exists in a completely different dimension[17] from the Living Universe and the Afterlife and is only accessible via special techniques like teleportation[6]. Being 1/10th of both worlds qualifies it for being a significant sized space-time.
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1/10 of the afterlife and the living world which are supposed to be infinity. You can´t break down infinity.
The Afterlife is separated[14]by space-time from the human universe, referred[16][14] to as “The Cosmos,” which is nearly synonymous as being described as a Universe-like structure, but providing a distinction in name from the Living Universe. The Afterlife is a different realm in which souls of people go after death[14] and is separated[14]from the Living World[14]. It contains places like Heaven, Hell, Snake Way, Kaio planets. It and is said to be the upper half of the main macrocosm[14], and a contrast of the human world. The afterlife is even stated to transcend the dimensions[16] present in the human world, which means that it should be unquantifiably bigger than the Living Universe. Now what makes Afterlife even bigger is the fact that it contains Heaven which was said to be as big as the universe[6], even completely disappearing[14] in its vastness. This should be more than enough to prove that the Afterlife is way bigger than a universe and can be considered a significant-sized space-time.
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Assuming it is really seperated by space-time, why is time still running there with exact the same speed like in the living world? Remember when The Saiyans appear Goku has to speed up and return over the Snakepath back to the living world. Nummerous people died while he was on his way. So i don´t see the actual worth of having a seperated space-time, especially since the afterlife can´t exist without the living world. It isn´t even really any sort of transcendence either, atleast not in terms of supperiority.

The argument that the Afterli is way bigger than a universe i don´t see here either. What is the actual evidence of it?

Dimension of Swirling Lights​

During the battle between Gogeta and Broly, the two were sent into a strange dimension of swirling lights after their sheer power broke the dimensional walls separating the realms, distorting space-time itself.[21][22][See Notes 1] While the realm itself has no quantifiable size, it does further confirm the space-time separation of the different dimensions of the macrocosms.
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They broke trough some dimensions, yes. And now?We don´t know anything about them and they don´t appear to be superior to the afterlife either. They don´t even appear as being of any sort higher dimensions, rather then just some parallel dimensions within the universe.

Sea of Darkness​

The Sea of Darkness is a dark ocean that instantly kills anyone if they fall into it,[27] which is blatantly a form of Death Manipulation. Vicious beasts lurk within the sea that will attempt to eat anyone who flies too close over it.
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Is there more context for? Because what i read in the scan doesn´t exactly says it kills instantly. Did someone actually even fall in that to get resistance to it? Also note Arale technically would have to be immune to it, since Robots can´t "Die" under regular circumstances.

Neutral Space​

In Dragon Ball there exists a construct called the Neutral Space where the Tournament of Destroyers took place in.[33] The Neutral Space contains[34]all of the 12 macrocosms[34] of the Dragon Ball multiverse, separating them so that they do not touch nor interact with each other[35]. It is also called a space different from the 12 universes[36] so from above information it seems that the Neutral Space follows parallelism, making it an insignificant 5-D space. The Neutral Space seems to contain stars[35] and galaxies[35] making it somewhat an universe of its own.
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So, basically a bulk? I can be wrong, but didn´t the Tiering System of VSB exactly denies a Bulk as being automatically a higher dimension, or did they change the rules now?
Now the Neutral space has an element of time as Hit was able to use his Time-Skip there.[37]
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It is more like Hit can use his power everywhere because he brings "Time" with himself. His power itself generated time and stop the said time.
This acts as an in-between axis of time for the hypertimeline which also acts as a sideways level of time perpendicular to the macrocosms which is why you can destroy the individual macrocosms and their temporal origin without wrecking the others. This can be used as supporting evidence for hypertimelines. For further information regarding the Neutral Space, check out this thread
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Don´t see how this provide for anything of a hypertimeline if we take Hit into account.

World of Void​

The World of Void, also known as the Null realm, is a dimension where the Tournament of Power took place. It is a realm separate from the multiverse[36] and is a realm filled with eternal nothingness devoid of space and time[38][36]

The size of the realm is unknown but as it lacks space & time, and is a realm of complete nothingness. It should qualify for Nonexistent Physiology (Nature【Type 1】& Aspects【Type 5;〈Space-Time & History〉】) and Beyond-Dimensional Existence (Type 1)
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It has a physiology, otherwise Jiren would be unable to shake it. It isn´t even beyond dimensional existence either, as they fight within this "World", "Dimension". Atleast they didn´t used the infinity statement anymore. Eternal sounds better.

Subspace​

A dimension devoid of the concepts of time and space, that doesn't belong to any World and is located between all dimensions, such as the ones between the Macrocosm.[6] Contains within this void are dimensions possessing time, but by being separated, it shows that they have their own parallel time axes such as Room of Time & Spirit, thus all other dimensions are separate space-times
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Separated yes. Not Hypertime.
The size of the realm is unknown, but as it lacks the concepts of space and time & is a void of nothingness it should qualify for Nonexistent Physiology (Nature【Type 1】; Aspects【Types 2〈Concepts〉& 5〈Space-Time & History〉】) and Beyond-Dimensional Existence (Type 1)
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Huh? Above it says it dimensions and time exist, but being seperated and now it says the same nonsense as for the WoV.

Zeno's Realm​

Zeno's realm is a dimension where the great ruler of the multiverse, Zeno aka. the Omni King, resides. From this realm both Zenos and the Grand Priest look upon the entire multiverse. From his dimension he can materialize his hand[39] into the universe, and flick around planets the size of galaxies. The exact size and location of the dimension is unknown but it appears to at least hold its own stars and galaxies as seen in the background. The pillars present on Zeno's palace seems to hold spheres that represents universes. It’s also stated that Zeno wants to get rid of a few universes[40] because he wants to speed up the game.

Zeno resides above an enormous jellyfish that is located between golden clouds and what appears to be outer space filled with countless galaxies and stars. According to the Dragon Ball Super databook, this realm exists in a separate dimension from all 12 universes. The pillars around Zeno's palace hold spheres that represent these universes. Given these indications, it makes more sense for this realm to be classified as Low 2-C in size.
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Another Bulk yes. Like i said, if that alone is accepted as higher dimension, then here we go, but i don´t want 5-D Bleach or Fire Force here.

Hypertimeline​

As explained in the previous sections, the Dragon Ball timeline consists of many different universal space-times with their own time dimensions, the space in-between that contains all the 12 macrocosms & many other realms. The timeline contains all the worlds that exist within the multiverse and outside of it. This timeline is a 5th-dimensional "hypertimeline". For a more thorough explanation of this, please check this blog
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So in short. You posted this wall of text to provide more evidence for Hypertimelines, but at the end when it coms to the actual topic it links me to the same non-saying wall of text which you posted before? Again what is the actual Hypertimeline in this verse? Is it the Macrocosm, is it the Realm from where Zeno works, is it above Zeno, etc.?
  • Life Manipulation (Can randomly make inanimate objects come to life[96][97])
    • BFR (Via Subjective Reality & Immersion; She can warp people or objects to where someone is watching her,[106] such as when she threw Senbei through Suppaman's monitor, who was watching her[112])
    • Spatial Manipulation (Via Subjective Reality; She can manipulate perspective to impose her understanding onto reality. In doing so she can treat massive and distant objects as miniature and near,[3][113] plus vice versa.[114] Arale can cause space to bend and warp.[9] Arale can match, repel, and counter attacks from Senbei's sword, which can cut through space[115])
  • Power Mimicry (Arale has shown to be capable of replicating techniques used by other characters. This includes copying a character's fire breath,[69] replicating another character's ability to go Super Saiyan,[81] copying Toriyama's plot manipulation,[41] and mimicking another character's ability to launch and shoot text.[116] Characters are capable of copying abilities unique to other characters and races[117])
  • BFR(Via 4th Wall Breaking; Arale has launched people through manga panels, warping them to different locations[124])
  • Plot Manipulation, Text Manipulation, Law Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, Causality Manipulation, & Existence Erasure(Arale can manipulate, alter, & erase drawings,[105] which are responsible for the rules, creation, as well as the governance of every moment of reality, existence, & the narrative. She can also script, remove, & manipulate the pages[41] which are the canvas for the drawings and where all moments of existence & the narrative resides on.[115] Arale can become equivalent to the Author and in doing so are able to gain complete control of the narrative and it's characters, manipulate pages, and decide every event that occurs on them. They likely can replicate the Author's usage of Plot Manipulation as well.[22] The plot can create and control abstract Beings.[140] When using narrative destruction, she collapsed the film reel her narrative is tied to, causing all moments of the animation to cease.[123] Arale can create, destroy, and interact with text,[141][116] as well as interact with character's speech bubbles.[88] Arale can manifest and project text through different mediums to have them travel to different areas.[54] Arale has started,[39]stopped, & ended the plot,[142] they can restart the plot if certain effects are applied, as well.[143] Arale has directly attacked the animation itself, reciprocating the effect of damage on reality.[144] Arale can Interrupt the plot[109] with various random effects.[126] She has change events, making it so things that happened didn't occur, as well as cause what didn't happened to occur.[39] The ideas that Arale has can change the narrative, having them become the main character, have the plot revolving around them, add and remove aspects of characters, the story becomes exactly what they want it to be, and they can freely alter the title of any story and produce the aforementioned effects.[39][145] Arale is capable of altering and removing the roles that characters occupy within the plot. In doing so, everything the character would have experienced and achieved will be altered to whatever the new role is assigned to.[126] The presence of Dr. Slump characters within any given story can alter it's plot, changing the original contents of events. Arale's ubiety within a fictional story caused the sudden appearances of characters from other stories and her presence completely changed the story[20])
From what i saw only, the ones i leave above can be considered somewhat a hax, because most of the mentioned abilities doesn´t count as such. They are just abilities.
The quantity of abilities are good, but not always a win condition, same with higher stats alone are not always a win condition either.

Also assuming Arale has all those powers, she still sucks against Beerus who hasn´t even a small fragment of said powers. I saw some people thinking Hakai is Plot Erasure, but it couldn´t even erase Zamasu fully. Like seriously.

Abstract Existence (Type 2) (Dr. Slump characters are manifestations of the concepts and ideas from the author. These ideas have been described as what gives birth to characters, being responsible for shaping, forming, and manipulating the fundamentality for the designs and aspects of characters[19])
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Wut? Arale is pretty much physical, there is nothing abstract or conceptual on her. One of the biggest issues is, if the descriptions doesn´t fit the actual evidence.

Resistances

Snip

So much and then no Concept Manipulation? How is she countering it? And how is she facing Gravity that can even affect concepts? Guess we can take all of them without questioning its consistency. Also resistance can be only appear to hax she actually tanked or where it really makes sense by her physiology. Otherwise tanking hax makes the hax itself worthless and limited to physics.

(The principles of science, logic, and theories[31] do not apply to the characters.[150] Vegeta stated that logical common sense does not apply to gag characters and they can ignore the conventional laws of physics,[120] this even applies to the physics of gravity[151])
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You can´t affect concepts with gravity, and gag characters are not immune to that, they are mostly only limited to like said physical laws.

And don´t get me wrong. I think it is an antifeat that gravity affects Concepts, because you can´t grasp what is truely abstract. However, that doesn´t mean i can´t use the same argument. If logic doesn´t apply to gag characters, then they lose by default.

By the list alone Arale would solo her own verse by the way.

Dragon Ball Anime: Statistical Ratings​

I skip this part, because i don´t buy into fancalcs and inconsistent multiplier stacking in general. Just a few points:

  • I don´t have any issues with MFTL+ Dragonball characters. I only expect the fanbase is open to accept it for other verses with similar background.
  • I don´t have any issues with universal and in Zeno´s case multiversal power either. Its just not everyone and their mom like try to give to Krillin lol
  • If you are universal, then you are universal. If you are 1000x stronger you are still universal logical speaking. Like there is no higher "output" given, especially when we assume it is actually infinity.

Arale's plot prowess is akin to that of Toriyama's, making her able to create, manipulate, and even end the entire series.

Inverse mechanics are not relevant for crossbattles, as Akira and its creations have no power over other series narrative except their only copy right ones. I don´t get how Plot Manipulation in 2025 is still a thing.
The narrative contains many worlds, each of which has 5D timelines which are countless due to each timeline naturally existing for every day, hour, and minute that occurs in time, as well as each action in a timeline creates a new timeline meaning a timeline exists for every possible future.

It doesn´t even make sense as it doesn´t exist in the DB narrative, plus they don´t have any qualitive superiority like other verses that use higher dimensions, being it in size difference, transcendence or other useful power additions. If you have other arguments that are reasonable to put them there, provide it.
She can also go beyond that realm's 4th Wall, being able to manipulate the pages & animation which contains the entire Dr. Slump & Dragon Ball reality.

Fourth Wall breaking, yes. How is this relevant? Kid Goku broke the 4th wall with an attack already in OG Dragonball. Many character in Shonen Jump already did that. Its not really useful in terms of power. Keep in mind someone like Buu destroy the earth, likely make also Arale stop to exist, otherwise where would she go in that time?
Arale has displayed the ability to travel through time with sheer speed. Arale can lift and hurl entire manga pages and animation strips, which contains the 5D cosmology of Dr. Slump's reality. Can turn into a Super Saiyan.

Don´t remember she ever did that in Dragonball (Which is what we are talking about unless you take some cross scaling to Dr. Slump as being part of the same franchise).
Notes

  • Dr. Slump character's Plot Manipulation & resistance towards it is layered. Which means conventional Plot Manipulation won't affect them. Furthermore, a conventional resistance will be overridden by them.
Dr. Slump characters, yes. Plot Manipulation wouldn´t affect them yes. Assuming Plot Manipulation has a say in crossbattles, how does that protect her from Gravity Drain?
  • Arale's powers and abilities can modify the author avatars who have Acausality Type 4, due to being entities that naturally exist outside the framework of narrative. Being independent of its flow of events and are unbound by the plot of stories.
Even assuming she has Type 4 Acausality, she still can be affected as Type 4 is also bound by layered levels of Cause and Effect. Not that layered hax of the same type makes even sense when it comes to "overpower" resistance as every verse have different rules about it.

  • Dr. Slump shares a setting with Dragon Ball. This is due to the fact that in Dragon Ball Super episode 69, Senbei pulls out the original Dr. Slump manga and refers to how the events of said manga are canon to them. Arale herself recognized Goku, thus solidifying the events of their meeting each other in Dragon Ball. Moreover, in Dragon Ball Manga Chapter 81, Senbei states that it had been a while since he had appeared in Shōnen Jump, this statement would only make sense if he was referring to the events of Dr. Slump. Which is the only time he appeared in a Shōnen Jump manga, prior to Dragon Ball. Thus proving the events of Dr. Slump are canon to Dragon Ball.
And yet you can´t give DB characters the resistance and feats from Dr. Slump as for that is so far need that the exact characters were affected by her power. Not that it is necessary, Arale her powers are pretty much limited to Z Saga assuming she was also destroyed altougether in the Buu Saga with earth. Her beating Vegeta later in Super but not capble to beat Beerus, despite the powers she has is really poor. Like can´t be an Umineko type of character with narrative and conceptual powers.
  • See here for an in-depth explanation of the Dragon Ball Hypertimelines for information about the cosmological scaling and tiering.
Where is the actual proof for any qualitive superiority? Zeno himself is in the same timeline as Trunks, He can´t even go to other timelines without the time travel machine from Goku. Even if you go further and assume Universe 7 alone qualifiy for such a structure, just destroy the universe and everything else around it would collapse, except the Bulk where the other universes were trapped.

As much 5-D sound impressive, for Dragonball it has no real worth. Those are more parallel worlds where they have actually evidence for by going similar to MWI Theory. Heck, even DBH doesn´t have higher dimensions in a direct sense as Beats World was proven to be just an alternative future and DBH uses a superior Cosmology System thanks to the Arcade Machine.

But hey, if they are somewhat 5-D they should have no problems when i make a Gauntlet with other five dimensional dudes. :D
Arale can´t even survive the destruction of a planet, like she hasn´t even any evidence for it to do so unless you can tell me where she was when Buu nuked the planet. Arale can´t survive the destruction of the universe either, unless we assuming she is>Zeno which i think we don´t do here.
Yes, as dumb and illogical it sounds as real concepts can´t be affected by any sort of gravity to being abstract in nature, giving the point we allow Plot Manipulation a thing, we can allow Gravity do the same. Plot Manipulation isn´t above Concept Manipulation as their relationship depends entirely on the specific fictional universe, its rules, and the context of their application.In some contexts, Plot Manipulation is seen as the ultimate power able to control concepts within the narrative, while in others, Concept Manipulation could override Plot Manipulation by altering fundamental ideas, making their hierarchical relationship subjective to the story's internal logic.
Another thing is that it has literally infinity force, so higher dimension doesn´t even matter as gravity works there as well.
So far she has no resistance feats to it, and Plot Manipulation doesn´t make you outright immune to other hax, especially since she let attack you. Don´t get me wrong, Dragonball has a hand full universal characters too.
 
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