Popeye 2-C Upgrade

[Denim_Valentine]

Hello, I’m making this CTR because I came across some information about Popeye’s cosmology a while back that I haven’t seen anyone else bring up. Which could potentially upgrade him to 2-C. It’s actually pretty straightforward: Popeye’s cosmology includes a multiverse of alternate realities and versions of him. Essentially, any official version of Popeye, whether from cartoons, comics, or video games, is part of this multiverse. Some continuities can even have alternate versions or timelines of themselves, as seen with the comic strip, which has two separate versions.

Popeye’s entire cosmology is portrayed as existing within a book, or, for the sake of this argument, a film strip. The whole multiverse is contained within the film strip. When Popeye ripped the film strip, he was effectively affecting his entire cosmology, along with every universe and timeline within it. That feat should reasonably qualify as 2-C.

 

[Arceus0x]

That'd scale him to 6 universes (making him fight Goku)

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Cool! OP seems reasonable to me.

Popeye still stomps Saitama. XD

 

[Tonygameman]

Looks straight-forward as far as I can tell.

 

[Denim_Valentine]

That'd scale him to 6 universes (making him fight Goku)

While the strip only showed six versions of Popeye, Watasnozzle implied that there are more realities out there. If you accept that every official version of Popeye is part of the multiverse, that would add up to around 21 universes. On the lower end, since a softball team consists of nine players, there would have to be at least 10 universes, since the comic strip version of Popeye already said no.

 

[Denim_Valentine]

Bump

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

While i agree with the thread and a 2-C rating, the implications of every version of Popeye being from a different universe should be better explored, pretty sure we do a composite between all Popeyes from the comics and cartoons, so the profile should be divided between those alternate versions.

Popeye still stomps Saitama. XD

He never stopped stomping Saitama tbh

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

He never stopped stomping Saitama tbh

lol

 

[Greatsage13th]

hmm

 

[Denim_Valentine]

the implications of every version of Popeye being from a different universe should be better explored

There are very few instances where alternate versions of Popeye directly meet each other. However, there are cases of nods between versions; the comic strip version of Popeye basically calls the Fleischer/Famous version “fake,” and the 1960s cartoons once used the comic strip as wallpaper in a scene. Beyond that, there's not much else that I could find.

pretty sure we do a composite between all Popeyes from the comics and cartoons, so the profile should be divided between those alternate versions.

I’ve always found it weird that his main profile is labeled canon when it’s actually a composite, since the comic strip is the primary continuity.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

There are very few instances where alternate versions of Popeye directly meet each other. However, there are cases of nods between versions; the comic strip version of Popeye basically calls the Fleischer/Famous version “fake,” and the 1960s cartoons once used the comic strip as wallpaper in a scene. Beyond that, there's not much else that I could find.

I meant regarding what it would imply on the profiles current rating and P&A Sections

I’ve always found it weird that his main profile is labeled canon when it’s actually a composite, since the comic strip is the primary continuity.

The Popeye canon is something that few people ever actually explored (I remember someone on CSAP making a blog regarding the franchise's continuity and someone here some years ago creating a draft of an explanation blog about the series' canon, but that's about it)

 

[Denim_Valentine]

The comic strip is the only thing that is canon; even the comic books from 1948 - 1984 are not canon.

I meant regarding what it would imply on the profiles current rating and P&A Sections

Oh, if that’s the case, then there’s a chance profiles for the 1930s, 1960s, comics, and other versions might need to be created.

 

[Ezaru]

Popeye’s entire cosmology is portrayed as existing within a book, or, for the sake of this argument, a film strip. The whole multiverse is contained within the film strip. When Popeye ripped the film strip, he was effectively affecting his entire cosmology, along with every universe and timeline within it. That feat should reasonably qualify as 2-C.

How do we know the film strip contains the entire cosmology and not just one universe?

 

[IDK3465]

I agree with the cosmology containing at minimum 6 universes, that much is obvious. As for whether or not Popeye scales to it, I’m more neutral.

As far as I know, almost all of his higher-end feats are only shown to effect individual universes rather than the entire cosmology (although, it wouldn’t surprise me if there’s evidence that the film strip contains all of reality, similar to how we currently treat Looney Tunes). If someone can bring evidence of him effecting the whole cosmology rather than individual universes, then yeah, 2-C Popeye is fine, but otherwise, I’ll stay neutral.

(Oh, and we should probably split the profiles up more if each iteration of Popeye exists in their own universes)

 

[Rex_Eckles]

How do we know the film strip contains the entire cosmology and not just one universe?

Maybe it's because the space outside film strip has a R>F relationship relative to the Popeye universe while the alternate realities don't?

 

[Ezaru]

Maybe it's because the space outside film strip has a R>F relationship relative to the Popeye universe while the alternate realities don't?

Yes but I would imagine, in that real world, there are say, video games of Popeye containing those versions, and such

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Yes but I would imagine, in that real world, there are say, video games of Popeye containing those versions, and such

Yeah, that makes sense. I'm fine with it staying at Low 2-C.

 

[Denim_Valentine]

How do we know the film strip contains the entire cosmology and not just one universe?

From the way I see it. Popeye’s cosmology is treated as fiction within the “real world,” meaning it’s something physically observable. Its form constantly changes. In the Fleischer shorts, it’s shown to exist as a film reel, but it’s also depicted as a book. So, it wouldn’t be far-fetched to think that it could also take the form of an arcade machine or a TV to represent other Popeye realities. Different shapes, but the same physical cosmology, if that makes sense.

 

[Denim_Valentine]

(although, it wouldn’t surprise me if there’s evidence that the film strip contains all of reality, similar to how we currently treat Looney Tunes).

I found these, but I don't know if this is significant evidence.

 

[Ezaru]

From the way I see it. Popeye’s cosmology is treated as fiction within the “real world,” meaning it’s something physically observable. Its form constantly changes. In the Fleischer shorts, it’s shown to exist as a film reel, but it’s also depicted as a book. So, it wouldn’t be far-fetched to think that it could also take the form of an arcade machine or a TV to represent other Popeye realities. Different shapes, but the same physical cosmology, if that makes sense.

I feel like a "real life" that has "worlds" for each media makes just as much sense tho

I found these, but I don't know if this is significant evidence.

Hmmm can you explain?

 

[Denim_Valentine]

I feel like a "real life" that has "worlds" for each media makes just as much sense tho

Well, we never actually see two separate physical cartoon “worlds” on screen at the same time, only one, and that one has been shown to change its form, appearing as a film strip or as a book. Now, just because we don’t see the other cartoon “worlds” physically doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t exist, but it does make more sense for Popeye’s cosmology to be localized within a single space.

As mentioned in this thread, this could be similar (though not identical) to how the Looney Tunes cosmology works. Everything exists within the film strip, even things that don’t originate from the cartoons. On the Toon Physiology (Looney Tunes) page, for instance, feats from the mobile games and comics are considered valid; those sources aren’t animated on cels, but they still belong to the same overarching reality.

Even in shorts like Duck Amuck and Rabbit Rampage, it’s shown that the reality Bugs and Elmer manipulate isn’t the film strip itself but rather a piece of paper. Their cosmology can even extend to computer-based structures, like the ServerVerse. So whether it’s a film strip, a page, or a database, it all functions as a host for their entire Cosmology. Again, not a perfect one-to-one comparison, but the idea of everything existing within a single, unified framework would still apply.

Hmmm can you explain?

These are just a few random examples of Popeye referencing himself across different versions. So you have Fleischer Popeye appearing in the Robin Williams movie, the 1960s cartoon uses the comic strip as wallpaper, and multiple versions of Bluto and Brutus crossing over with each other. Apparently, Popeye and Son takes place in a separate universe, but is also an alternate timeline.

 

[Ezaru]

Well, we never actually see two separate physical cartoon “worlds” on screen at the same time, only one, and that one has been shown to change its form, appearing as a film strip or as a book. Now, just because we don’t see the other cartoon “worlds” physically doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t exist, but it does make more sense for Popeye’s cosmology to be localized within a single space.

As mentioned in this thread, this could be similar (though not identical) to how the Looney Tunes cosmology works. Everything exists within the film strip, even things that don’t originate from the cartoons. On the Toon Physiology (Looney Tunes) page, for instance, feats from the mobile games and comics are considered valid; those sources aren’t animated on cels, but they still belong to the same overarching reality.

Even in shorts like Duck Amuck and Rabbit Rampage, it’s shown that the reality Bugs and Elmer manipulate isn’t the film strip itself but rather a piece of paper. Their cosmology can even extend to computer-based structures, like the ServerVerse. So whether it’s a film strip, a page, or a database, it all functions as a host for their entire Cosmology. Again, not a perfect one-to-one comparison, but the idea of everything existing within a single, unified framework would still apply.

Yeah, that makes sense. I'm just not sure we have proof it works that way

These are just a few random examples of Popeye referencing himself across different versions. So you have Fleischer Popeye appearing in the Robin Williams movie, the 1960s cartoon uses the comic strip as wallpaper, and multiple versions of Bluto and Brutus crossing over with each other. Apparently, Popeye and Son takes place in a separate universe, but is also an alternate timeline.

Yeah but those timelines/versions could still be seperate universes than his 3-A feats affect.
Idk

 

[Denim_Valentine]

Yeah, that makes sense. I'm just not sure we have proof it works that way

Yeah but those timelines/versions could still be seperate universes than his 3-A feats affect.
Idk

Cosmology at that level isn’t often shown, so a lot of it comes down to interpretation and voting. It’s similar to how we interpret Popeye’s film strip feat as scaling to Low 2-C; there’s nothing in the source material that explicitly states it works that way, but that’s the logical interpretation we’ve settled on.

I see timelines as existing within the same universe they branch from, similar to how it works in Dragon Ball. Or something like that.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Minor Bump.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

I personally disagree with the upgrade.

 

[Denim_Valentine]

I personally disagree with the upgrade.

Perhaps I can win you over. What aspect do you disagree with?

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Perhaps I can win you over. What aspect do you disagree with?

I'm not convinced it's clear that the film strip encompasses multiple timelines rather than one single timeline, being cartoon Popeye's timeline.

 

[Denim_Valentine]

Well, the argument rests on the idea that Popeye’s level of cosmology would be physically localized in one place within the real world, rather than existing across multiple, separate physical mediums like the comics, cartoons, and video games. In the Fleischer shorts, his world is depicted as a film strip, but it’s also shown to exist as a book. Though I will admit this argument is not airtight.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Well, the argument rests on the idea that Popeye’s level of cosmology would be physically localized in one place within the real world, rather than existing across multiple, separate physical mediums like the comics, cartoons, and video games. In the Fleischer shorts, his world is depicted as a film strip, but it’s also shown to exist as a book. Though I will admit this argument is not airtight.

I mean, I'm pretty sure someone mentioned we've seen the comics present in the film strips, and we've also seen cartoon Popeye in the comics. I'm not sure if the relationship of the media Popeye is in compared to the real world is consistent. Are the comics a lower reality than the films, or is just the film strip itself a higher level of reality, encompassing everything?

 

[Denim_Valentine]

I mean, I'm pretty sure someone mentioned we've seen the comics present in the film strips, and we've also seen cartoon Popeye in the comics. I'm not sure if the relationship of the media Popeye is in compared to the real world is consistent. Are the comics a lower reality than the films, or is just the film strip itself a higher level of reality, encompassing everything?

Yeah, it’s definitely an inconsistency problem (with nearly 90 years of content that’s bound to happen.) It's funny you brought up lower and higher realities, because I once had an odd theory that Popeye’s cosmology operates on layered realities, where each layer sees the one beneath it as "fake". Like the comic strip dismisses the Fleischer shorts as unreal. Yet, characters like Bluto from the Fleischer era and the Martian Commander still appear in the comic strip world, suggesting those events did happen, or at least were remembered as if they had. Inconsistency is the core issue here. And then you have the 1960s cartoon that treats the comic strips as nothing but wallpaper. It's all over the place.

 

[Zenith_Enigma]

Seems good.

 

[Denim_Valentine]

Bump

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Minor Bump.

 

[Denim_Valentine]

Bump

 

[Denim_Valentine]

After thinking it over, I’ve concluded that my argument for 2-C Popeye is flawed, not because I disagree with it, but because the core of the argument relies on how the cosmology functions. Which has not been defined or agreed upon on the site, as there is no cosmology page for the verse.

Additionally, as shown in the thread, adaptations of Popeye are regarded as separate versions of him. (though I would argue this was already the case even before that comic explicitly pointed it out). As a result, the film-strip feat would not count for canon Popeye. This means that even if the upgrade were approved, it could not be added to his main profile and would instead have to go on a separate profile, which does not even exist.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

After thinking it over, I’ve concluded that my argument for 2-C Popeye is flawed, not because I disagree with it, but because the core of the argument relies on how the cosmology functions. Which has not been defined or agreed upon on the site, as there is no cosmology page for the verse.

Additionally, as shown in the thread, adaptations of Popeye are regarded as separate versions of him. (though I would argue this was already the case even before that comic explicitly pointed it out). As a result, the film-strip feat would not count for canon Popeye. This means that even if the upgrade were approved, it could not be added to his main profile and would instead have to go on a separate profile, which does not even exist.

Oh, that’s a shame.

 

[Denim_Valentine]

Yeah, but it was inevitable. His profile/verse has been outdated for quite some time.