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One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph

I was just thinking, it's funny how the Elders glaze the power of the Egghead Pacifistas, only for the Vice Admirals to be capable of defeating them without much issue. Doll herself takes one out in a few shots (which reminds me, once the verse lock is over she could really use a profile).
 
Eseseso said:
I was just thinking, it's funny how the Elders glaze the power of the Egghead Pacifistas, only for the Vice Admirals to be capable of defeating them without much issue. Doll herself takes one out in a few shots (which reminds me, once the verse lock is over she could really use a profile).
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Plus one of the Elders themselves solos half the Pacifista in less than a minute.
 
I don’t gaf, Oda robbed Chopper, he should have been able to at least do something other than stall Queen to wait for Sanji to get there.
 
Stefano4444 said:
Snip
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I can see the argument, but I still think it has its issues.
Like, the future sight point is something and I truly believe it can be like that but, even with future sight Luffy still calls him "too fast" or something like that and while it may be a major factor, I don't see it changing Blitz gaps like that, cuz for me, seeing it happening does not mean you can actually do something about it. And even if FS is a "G4 level reaction/perception amp" (since Luffy dodged that TB in base IIRC) that still does not affect Zoro (Law and Kid too but they literally fought against a yonko so they not part of this) since he does not have FS and still can keep up with the Kaido who did the blitz and Big Mom who scales to Kaido.
And again, while the duraneg part is still a valid point to put into question the raw strengh diff, as far as we are aware, it does not affect durability like that unless his durability/haki also increased, and luffy does take hits while not getting knocked out like his early wano G4 (you can argue is rage made him care less abt defence but I feel it makes more sense that his rage haki would protect as much as it attacks) so he could probably stone wall kat with his Tank Man and make him fold like Cracker. But even if you say that, Zoro and the others also share performances better than that early wano Luffy, and that would also would make king (and for a lesser extent queen since I feel its hard to make him scale to Zoro or King directly cuz I don't remember if he has feats on those 2 outside of some durability stuff) have great difference in speed and power in comparison to Kat.
Like, im not saying we should scale the tobiroppo to above Kat since thats simply "haha funny agenda", but as of now, his feats against Luffy, can put him considerably below King and maybe below Queen. Unless Film Red gave him some feats. Heard the streets say that the "feats and general powerlevels" there are canon and im pretty sure he is in it but idk didnt get to watch it yet.
Stefano4444 said:
On Wano the only genuine power cliffing that did trully occurred for Luffy was after unlocking Advanced Conqueror Haki (and then Gear 5th to a less degree).
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Like this one is really Crazy, we got so many ginoumous gaps between initial ACOC and G5 that we can have a Yonko basically one shoting and blitzing other yonko (look at the durablity ratings of Big Mom and Kaidos Ap and speed with Full Power Hybrid on that scaling thread made for egghead) when they should be generally equal and not have a 2x or more difference in stats. Not trowing shade to the guys who made the scaling, it is what the majority of the feats show and it is truly comprehensive list of feats and scaling in a very direct sense, Its just weird to me that this type of gap still exist this late into the story.
 
Well I think vice admirals in general are being underrated (especially when most only specialize in haki, making them seem not that strong as they aren't flashy and stuff)

The only one flashy is smoker, and he's more on the lower tier of vice admirals (assuming based of off Vergo being distinguishably superior to him)
 
Bananossauro said:
Like, the future sight point is something and I truly believe it can be like that but, even with future sight Luffy still calls him "too fast" or something like that and while it may be a major factor, I don't see it changing Blitz gaps like that, cuz for me, seeing it happening does not mean you can actually do something about it.
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I don't think i understand what you're saying, can you clarify it a bit more?

Bananossauro said:
And even if FS is a "G4 level reaction/perception amp" (since Luffy dodged that TB in base IIRC) that still does not affect Zoro (Law and Kid too but they literally fought against a yonko so they not part of this) since he does not have FS and still can keep up with the Kaido who did the blitz and Big Mom who scales to Kaido.
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When they ever manage to fully react to a direct Thunder Bagua from Kaido in the Rooftop? As i remind you that his attack speed with Thunder Bagua does seen to be far greater than his regular combat speed.

Zoro, Luffy, Law, Kidd and Killer never tried to direct confronting either Yonko alone and only fight in group so that neither Big Mom or Kaido could trully focus on a single targer, while also assisting to counter when it was not possible to dodge it in time, and even that in many cases they did end up getting hits before they could react.

And for Big Mom using her in general its not the best scaling, considering that in Wano where plenty of people who despite not be on her level they somehow manage to dodge her (like Base Luffy back at Udon) or even hit her before he could react (Franky in his car).

Bananossauro said:
And again, while the duraneg part is still a valid point to put into question the raw strengh diff, as far as we are aware, it does not affect durability like that unless his durability/haki also increased
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Considering that Luffy had to go under training to improve his Haki before he could unlock its advance applications we can likely assume that his Haki has improven in general, by an unknown degree but it still better, not only that but Emission itself further improve the user's defense than normally.

As when Luffy did unlock it, we see him be able to survive a blow from an enraged Big Mom in Base, compare to the previous arc where a Boundman Luffy could only briefly manage to briefly clash against Big Mom's Armament Haki before getting knocked to Base with little effort (which is still more than what Zoan Queen manage to do), which show to much Emission boost the user's defense.

There its a reason why Sentomaru claim himself to have the strongest defense in the world by mastering Emission, which we see that it allow him to block Kizaru's attack and even hurt him in an occassion, sure he lost the fight but because he could only compete with him by abusing his Emission as without him he was getting overpower quite quickly.

Bananossauro said:
and luffy does take hits while not getting knocked out like his early wano G4 (you can argue is rage made him care less abt defence but I feel it makes more sense that his rage haki would protect as much as it attacks)
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The hits Base Luffy took which didn't knocked down where non named attacks, clearly inferior to his Thunder Bangua, and the moment he did got a direct hit by an named attack (before he has the chance to guard on) he got knocked out, so no indication of Base Luffy had become more durable than his Boundman.

In fact only in Boundman we actually see Post Udon Luffy actually manage to withstand a Blast Breath from Kaido.
 
Stefano4444 said:
I don't think i understand what you're saying, can you clarify it a bit more?
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Sorry if I made it confusing, english is not my first language. In short, I don't believe Future sight would make that much of a difference since when luffy had trained and had future sight, Kaido still was too fast.

Been rereading to find stuff but just to be clear, I believe that its completely clear that Kidd and Law downscale from Big Mom generaly and that in Wano the only one that could match their performance was Luffy, and maybe Yamato on his strongest form so I wont bring them up since they kinda exist in a vacuum for me. If you think that Wano Zoro has better scaling than theese 2 or that switch in Kidd/Law they would have better chances, Zoro would have a decent downscaling to Yonko tier better than WCI Luffy and Kat.
Also, even if base Luffy is not equal to his previous bound man self, there are other ways to put King and Queen that much stronger than Kat that kind of breaks WCI Kat scaling to higher tiers.
Stefano4444 said:
When they ever manage to fully react to a direct Thunder Bagua from Kaido in the Rooftop? As i remind you that his attack speed with Thunder Bagua does seen to be far greater than his regular combat speed.

Zoro, Luffy, Law, Kidd and Killer never tried to direct confronting either Yonko alone and only fight in group so that neither Big Mom or Kaido could trully focus on a single targer, while also assisting to counter when it was not possible to dodge it in time, and even that in many cases they did end up getting hits before they could react.

And for Big Mom using her in general its not the best scaling, considering that in Wano where plenty of people who despite not be on her level they somehow manage to dodge her (like Base Luffy back at Udon) or even hit her before he could react (Franky in his car)
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The antifeats are strong with Big Mom, but I would take feats on Rooftop and in her fight with the Duo as valid.
I will also say that, at the start of rooftop, kaido states that now luffy can "put up a decent fight now" after his Thunder Bagua, I will simply say that, since Kaido has a habit of starting small and then working up until he peaks, and that Big Mom should be Comparable to Kaido with 1 homie (their stalemate at the start of Wano) and to Hybrid with 3 (roofpiece implies that and she has a combined attack with him so), Zoro cutting Heavenly Fuer before reaching Luffy; the 3 captains being stupid and showing comparable reactions to the ranged version of the previous attack; G4 Luffy getting Dragon Kaido by surprise after Kaifu; Zoro saving Luffy from 3 homies Big Mom (all of this are in the 1001 to 1009 chapters range, don't know how to show scans on mobile) are all valid feats that put them on a speed that should be grater than early wano G4. Also, most feats you posted are on

Stefano4444 said:
Considering that Luffy had to go under training to improve his Haki before he could unlock its advance applications we can likely assume that his Haki has improven in general, by an unknown degree but it still better, not only that but Emission itself further improve the user's defense than normally.

As when Luffy did unlock it, we see him be able to survive a blow from an enraged Big Mom in Base, compare to the previous arc where a Boundman Luffy could only briefly manage to briefly clash against Big Mom's Armament Haki before getting knocked to Base with little effort (which is still more than what Zoan Queen manage to do), which show to much Emission boost the user's defense.

There its a reason why Sentomaru claim himself to have the strongest defense in the world by mastering Emission, which we see that it allow him to block Kizaru's attack and even hurt him in an occassion, sure he lost the fight but because he could only compete with him by abusing his Emission as without him he was getting overpower quite quickly.
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Not gonna disagree but, when he did that with emission, he put his hands up like the admirals on marineford and most if not all hits he took he did not do that and just took it. All emission feats that I remember are either offensive or hands up thingy, if you can show someone (better if its luffy) doing it not in either of those thing then thats that. (and doesnt that proves my point? If his emission made his haki so strong its kind of comparable to his boundman feat against BigMom? Pretty sure you can also chalk this up to being amnesiac BigMom but I don't remember if its her O'lin persona or not)
Stefano4444 said:
The hits Base Luffy took which didn't knocked down where non named attacks, clearly inferior to his Thunder Bangua, and the moment he did got a direct hit by an named attack (before he has the chance to guard on) he got knocked out, so no indication of Base Luffy had become more durable than his Boundman.
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Luffy, in 1001 I believe, took a thunder bagua to the head and got up moments later and Kaido says "now you can put a proper fight" or something like that, and since the more the fight went the more Kaido got excited, the less "he held back"/"let out more power" and any feats are to be more impressive than what he did to him in EW(early wano) G4. We also have Zoro and Killer getting up after taking Big Mom lighting. Any attack that does not knock them down for good is a feat better than EWG4 and that scales to other characters (I can agree that Thunder Bagua is a good speed amp, but don't see it as a strong Ap amp, if it was his stalemate with LinLin would not be a stalemate if he has such a big amp in speed and power casually).

Again, even if its not base Luffy doing the cliff, Zoro and the rest of them still have a better general performance against the yonko than what EW boundman. Maybe not a blitz, but Zoro would scale in such a gap in strengh and durability that, when King rocked his shit, shifts the weight in the Lunarian's favor.
I agree that i might have overblown some stuff due to misremembering some stuff, only reread the roofpiece up to luffy using acoc, but after that is Zoro is down and luffy actually got a power boost that is on par to his G4 in base, so most of the avenues on backscaling are gone. I also see that the powercreep isn't as big as its made to be, but I still se it there, not Base luffy being G4 level but trough the others performance (mostly Zoro) being far better than EWG4 and other characters scaling to him.
Again, I would not have a problem if the wiki made it not like that and took your pov since I see as mostly valid and is in line with the "narrative" .
Like as I said, I too a controversial view that Big Mom deserves more and has shown more than what we give her here and should be closer drunk/buff Hybrid with her amps.
All in all, the "powercliff" should be discussed more
(Or maybe not since everyone upscaling From 6B, kat might actually be 1/4 the ap value from base Big Mom or something). Thanks for the patience and sorry if i made no sense or sounded rude. I'm still traing my english writing
 
Bananossauro said:
Sorry if I made it confusing, english is not my first language. In short, I don't believe Future sight would make that much of a difference since when luffy had trained and had future sight, Kaido still was too fast.
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It did make a difference as while he still got hit, he didn't too the full blow and only a portion, unlike before where G4 could barely react it. Which its also show later where in Snakeman Luffy his attack speed manage to outspeed Hybrid Kaido only for the latter to speedblitz him when he started used Future Sight, further proving that the FS does make a massive different when used.

And if Base Luffy with FS can partially dodge a Thunder Bagua from Base Kaido, then its possible that Katakuri who was show to be on par with Snakeman Luffy who its far faster than Base Luffy, may allow him enough speed to somewhat keep up with Base Kaido for at least a brief while.

Bananossauro said:
Also, even if base Luffy is not equal to his previous bound man self, there are other ways to put King and Queen that much stronger than Kat that kind of breaks WCI Kat scaling to higher tiers.
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I can definitely agree with King be stronger than Katakuri (especially flame off King who i do think that its easily above Marco), i don't the case can be apply Queen. Aside for Zoro's acknowledging his strength and tank an attack from King, what other feats he has that suggest to be comparable to the likes of Law and Kidd? Especially when he was getting tossed around by a clear weakened BM, unable to either make any significant damage to her or be able to react to her.

Compare to WCI Boundman Luffy who could at least manage to briefly clash with her and even force her to use Armament Haki, i would argue that this version of Luffy would already be above Zoan Queen, and sure Katakuri was still potrayed as a bit physically weaker than that version of Luffy he was still tough enough to take multiple named attacks without getting trully seriously injured while his Awakening Mochi were strong enough to at least match his physical power.

Even beside that Katakuri also would upscale to Cracker who was strong enough to harm Boundman's arm with a strike of his sword, and while Early WCI Luffy doesn't scale to the one who fought BM, he does still upscale to the one which overpower Doffy's strings, same strings which even without Awakening were strong enough to briefly stop Jozu's charge, the same guy who could engage to an hold back Aokiji for a short period of time and even harm him (while the latter was stucked in WB's Naginata).

Based on that Katakuri's AP/Durability doesn't seen to be inferior to Queen and i could argue that he may in fact be physically stronger (but not by a massive degree), and this without includind his Speed and his FS, where he may be more than capable to outspeed Queen.

Bananossauro said:
Not gonna disagree but, when he did that with emission, he put his hands up like the admirals on marineford and most if not all hits he took he did not do that and just took it. All emission feats that I remember are either offensive or hands up thingy, if you can show someone (better if its luffy) doing it not in either of those thing then thats that.
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Hands up thingy its also used to defend, in fact the Admirals did the same thing to stop WB's quake, its only offensively when its deflect the attack back.

Bananossauro said:
doesnt that proves my point? If his emission made his haki so strong its kind of comparable to his boundman feat against BigMom? Pretty sure you can also chalk this up to being amnesiac BigMom but I don't remember if its her O'lin persona or not)
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Not exactly as (for what i understand) both Emission and Internal Destruction are not like a passive abilites and that the moment Luffy unlock them they stack to any Haki infused attacks automatically, instead like with Future Sight, they are separated things which must be activated for to be used, It not regular Haki.

That its also one of the reason why Katakuri be able to utilize FS 24/7 its considering quite a feat, as normally it would likely consume too much stamina.

Bananossauro said:
Thanks for the patience and sorry if i made no sense or sounded rude. I'm still traing my english writing
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Don't worry is not like english its my native language either, i guess i simply better english and i can also use ChatGPT to correct/improve my gramm when necessary.
 
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Stefano4444 said:
It did make a difference as while he still got hit, he didn't too the full blow and only a portion, unlike before where G4 could barely react it.

Which its also show later where in Snakeman Luffy his attack speed manage to outspeed Hybrid Kaido only for the latter to speedblitz him when he started used Future Sight, further proving that the FS does make a massive different when used.

Also you can argue that Katakuri could partially downscale to his Snakeman Luffy (as like i have argue before, at that point Base Luffy hasn't surpassed Gear 4th), meaning Katakuri (with at least FS) can potentially be fast enough to react/match Base Kado.
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First, good one on the Kaido' FS, I really forgot about that. But luffy did recieve the full blow in 1001 he puts his hands on his forehead in pain only to get back up.
I'm pretty sure WCI Snake Man and Kat are undeniably equals and that was the whole point of the fight (did not know people thought otherwise) even with one being faster, the other use FS to cover that gap but, even granting you that, I don't see it being a performance as "good" as any of the supernova on the roof.
Stefano4444 said:
I can definitely agree with King be stronger than Katakuri (especially flame off King who i do think that its easily above Marco), i don't the case can be apply Queen. Aside for Zoro's acknowledging his strength and took an attack from King, what other feats he has that suggest to be comparable to the likes of Law and Kidd? Especially when he was getting tossed around by a clear weakened BM, unable to either make any significant damage to her or be able to react to her.

Compare to WCI Boundman Luffy who could at least manage to briefly clash with her and even force her to use Armament Haki, i would argue that this version of Luffy would already be above Zoan Queen, and sure Katakuri was still potrayed as a bit physically weaker than that version of Luffy he was still tough enough to take multiple named attacks without getting trully seriously injured while his Awakening Mochi were strong enough to at least match his physical power.
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Stefano4444 said:
Based on that Katakuri's AP/Durability doesn't seen to be inferior to Queen and i could argue that he may in fact be physically stronger (but not by a massive degree), and this without includind his Speed and his FS, where he may be more than capable to outspeed Queen.
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Ngl queen is on a weird scale and the best we have is the whole dynamic he showed with King, being stronger than the beast pirates and having a few durability feats that put him around Zoro in the earlier parts of his fight with King due to tanking an attack that ****** up Zoro a bit so yeah, unless you think King has a one shot gap between Queen or Kat, both of them should be around the same level of vaguely below King? Something like Kat~Queen~Roof Zoro<Post Roof Zoro<King
I'm sorry if I made it seem that way, but I dont think neither King, Zoro, Marco or anyone other than Luffy scales to the 2 that fought Big Mom so that is a moot point, like, even taking your stance , Big Mom is a one shot and blitz gap from any comander as is a serious Hybrid Kaido, them surviving her enough for a ring out is truly one of the best feats you can have outside of going blow for blow with a Yonko. I also don't think King is above Marco but that brings the admirals into this and thats a different can of worms me thinks.


Stefano4444 said:
Even beside that Katakuri also would upscale to Cracker who was strong enough to harm Boundman's arm with a strike of his sword, and while Early WCI Luffy doesn't scale to the one who fought BM, he does still upscale to the one which overpower Doffy's strings, same strings which even without Awakening were strong enough to briefly stop Jozu's charge, the same guy who could engage to an hold back Aokiji for a short period of time and even harm him (while the latter was stucked in WB's Naginata).
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Here is where you lost me. There is not a single way where scaling a version of Luffy to admirals this early. We know that Yonko and admirals in the same realm of power, I think that the Yonko are superior (all of them) to the admirals but not a one shot blitz gap. If Doffy even remotly downscales to that level (since Jozu does) Dressrosa Luffy upscales and that upscales the Luffy tha got Blitzed and one shot to a character that is comparable to the one Jozu downscales. Its like Yonko>=Admirals>=Jozu<Doffy<Cracker<WCI BoundMan <one shot<Yonko>=Admirals.
Even ignoring this scaling chain, Doffy is scared for his life when he discovers that Kaido might come for him now that he can't make smiles. In the anime we also have Kuzan blitzing and frezing Cracker but thats anime only since we dont know what went down in the cover story.
Unless Jozu does not scale to admirals, this becomes circular, and if he does not scale to admirals then he is just sub doffy level and not much else.
Stefano4444 said:
Hands up thingy its also used to defend, in fact the Admirals did the same thing to stop WB's quake, its only offensively when its deflect the attack back.

Not exactly as (for what i understand) both Emission and Internal Destruction are not like a passive abilites and that the moment Luffy unlock them they stack to any Haki infused attacks automatically, instead like with Future Sight, they are separated things which must be activated for to be used, It not regular Haki.

That its also one of the reason why Katakuri be able to utilize FS 24/7 its considering quite a feat, as normally it would likely consume too much stamina.
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Thats what I'm saying, emission is only an amp to haki's defense with the hands up thingy and not just a passive buff. That means that when Luffy got hit with any attack during rooftop, none were defended via emision (except for that Hybrid boro breath I think) and as such his haki's durability as a whole is greater than what his previous Boundman had, plus Killer and Zoro also got up from more serious attacks than a Base Kaido Thunder Bagua and Zoro scales to King and Killer to Hawkings Goma No So and that upscales King and Queen.

All in all, there probably aren't any blitz gaps between comanders (maybe marco if we take his fight with kizaru as a solid feat) general capabilities but there is a serious gap in the raw physicals at least from King/Marco and possibly maybe Queen to the rest of them as of now with rhe rest being around WCI Bound Man level of power.
Gonna try to watch Film Red to see if that can change Katakuri scaling since I heard that the final Boss fight is a raid against Tot Musica with a lot of combines attacks, so maybe there is anything that pulls him up or something.
 
Bananossauro said:
Here is where you lost me. There is not a single way where scaling a version of Luffy to admirals this early.
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I never scaled Dressrosa/WCI Boundman Luffy to any Admiral, but to Jozu where i mention that he could harm Aokiji, and for that i don't mean seriously injure him but he did make him bleed him a bit from his mouth, which while its leagues below Zoro giving a new scar to Kaido its still something not to overlook (similar to Big Mom's example), and he its still relative to other Top WB's Commanders like Marco, Vista and Ace.

Maybe i should have explain it better.
 
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Stefano4444 said:
I never scaled Dressrosa/WCI Boundman Luffy to any Admiral, but to Jozu where i mention that he could harm Aokiji, and for that i don't mean seriously injure him but he did make him bleed him a bit from his mouth, which while its leagues below Zoro giving a new scar to Kaido its still something not to overlook (similar to Big Mom's example), and he its still relative to other Top WB's Commanders like Marco, Vista and Ace.

Maybe i should have explain it better.
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I see, but doesn't that make the WB comanders weakest of the YC? Like if Doffy is toying with Jozu (he did do that) and you're saying that he is comparable to the other guys (can't argue with that) then all of them are relative to Dressrosa Luffy and more than a bit weaker than Cracker, Katakuri, King, Queen and Jack (Doffy is weak and Jack is strong by Kaido's admission). If we say that all of their "feats" against the admirals and the top tiers of marineford are not that big of a deal, the Power Balance kinda works(?). Like the "Strongest" Yonko has the weaker crew, LinLin and Kaido got basically the same general power level with I think her having more capable (as in tobiroppo level or above) than him while Kaido has a few amps more than her, Black beard got a an admiral, Buggy has the strongest Swordman and a cult and Shanks's a rat with a small but really powerfull crew (Ben Beckman got that one statement of being as strong as Shanks if I'm not mistaken). Pretty well balanced I guess
 
Bananossauro said:
I see, but doesn't that make the WB comanders weakest of the YC? Like if Doffy is toying with Jozu (he did do that) and you're saying that he is comparable to the other guys (can't argue with that) then all of them are relative to Dressrosa Luffy and more than a bit weaker than Cracker, Katakuri, King, Queen and Jack (Doffy is weak and Jack is strong by Kaido's admission).
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And i never say that Doffy was toying with Jozu, i say that his strings (without Awakening) were physically capable to briefly stop Jozu's charge, as Jozu was more annoyed than worried, and since we see him free later its likely that like Boundman Luffy he simply overpower them with raw strength, thought it seen like he probably need to put effort and can't do it casually.

I don't think Doffy himself its complete fodder as i do think that he still put him at comparable level to other Tobiroppo (with Ulti and Who's Who the ones who are closest to Doffy's strength) and BM's Officers like Perospero and Snatch, but he its definitely far weaker/slower than Jozu if his perform with Boundman Luffy say anything, even with Awakening he can at best press characters such as Jack and Cracker but that its the best he can do.

Still however you put it Dressrosa Boundman Luffy could manage to perform a feat similar to the one Jozu did (if not arguably better as he did it by just activating his Gear 4th), which can be used to argue that even that version of Luffy may already be as strong as the 2nd/3rd strongest members of the Whitebeard's Crew (inferior to only Marco and possibly Ace, with Vista can be either weaker or comparable).
 
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Eseseso said:
Tbf the Elders are supposed to be busted, they fought with Gear 5 Luffy. But losing to Vice Admirals? Really?
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I mean, this would be under the assumption that all VAs are at the same level. Doflamingo onetapped Smoker but was booking it to get away from Tsuru. Admirals are still in danger if Garp rolls up. Some VAs are just beasts, and these guys are in the like, top 15 current ones probably.
 
SlendVeny said:
I mean, this would be under the assumption that all VAs are at the same level. Doflamingo onetapped Smoker but was booking it to get away from Tsuru. Admirals are still in danger if Garp rolls up. Some VAs are just beasts, and these guys are in the like, top 15 current ones probably.
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Ehh a lot of them got clapped by Bonney and Franky (who's the goat but he straight up one shotted a VA with a Strong Right lol), plus Maynard got slammed by Bartolomeo.
I think most VAs are just fodders at this point in the story. Smoker will be an exception as he has narrative importance and will probably be Luffy's Sengoku or something like that, and Garp is technically an Admiral he just refuses to serve the CDs, Tsuru I have no idea for now. Logically she should have also been an Admiral or Admiral candidate in the past
 
Yeah the general gap between each Vice Admirals seen to be much bigger compare to other Marine Ranks.

Most seen to be just strong enough to challenge your typical Rookie Crews in the Paradise/New World, but the moment they face an Emperor's Officer/Commander they get destroyed, with someone like Smoker getting overpower by Doflamingo or Red King getting overpower by Base Franky.
 
Some just have busted DF abilities like Bluegrass, meanwhile Doll took down a goddamn Elbaf giant with ease.

And then you got Smoker the jobber at the bottom end, same with that one Sabo stomped at Dressrosa.
 
Eseseso said:
Some just have busted DF abilities like Bluegrass, meanwhile Doll took down a goddamn Elbaf giant with ease.

And then you got Smoker the jobber at the bottom end, same with that one Sabo stomped at Dressrosa.
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Smoker will get a power inflation imo
Also the one Sabo stomped is called Bastille. I wouldn't slander him for that as I have Post-Mera Sabo at YC1 level or above tbh
 
DaMonkeMan said:
Ehh a lot of them got clapped by Bonney
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A top-tier with one of the best DFs in existence
DaMonkeMan said:
and Franky (who's the goat but he straight up one shotted a VA with a Strong Right lol)
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Yeah, Franky hit the dude with a giant metal fist being shot forward out of his arm fast enough to intercept a Gorosei
DaMonkeMan said:
plus Maynard got slammed by Bartolomeo.
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Yeah, Maynard is probably the weakest VA we've seen, but Bartolomeo is pretty damn strong.
 
Stefano4444 said:
Yeah the general gap between each Vice Admirals seen to be much bigger compare to other Marine Ranks.

Most seen to be just strong enough to challenge your typical Rookie Crews in the Paradise/New World, but the moment they face an Emperor's Officer/Commander they get destroyed, with someone like Smoker getting overpower by Doflamingo or Red King getting overpower by Base Franky.
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What's important to remember is that Doflamingo is meant to be strong. He's not exactly the best Warlord, but he still is a New World Warlord. He's a full-on arc boss too.
 
SlendVeny said:
A top-tier with one of the best DFs in existence

Yeah, Franky hit the dude with a giant metal fist being shot forward out of his arm fast enough to intercept a Gorosei

Yeah, Maynard is probably the weakest VA we've seen, but Bartolomeo is pretty damn strong.
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bonney isn't a top tier lol
 
She is a top tier unless you don't consider mid commander level (whatever this level is (seriously idk can you throw me an example)) a top tier fighter I guess
 
Even High commander level, her haki (and Sanji's) was strong enough to be felt and hurt by luffy in gear 5 even if his defenses weren't up, still a top tier feat
 
DragonZeroNova said:
She is a top tier unless you don't consider mid commander level (whatever this level is (seriously idk can you throw me an example)) a top tier fighter I guess
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I think mid commanders are like just below King, Queen and them... With them being high commanders I think 🐵. For example like here (Tho I don't like the ranking/namings that people use to rank how strong one is)
 
DragonZeroNova said:
She is a top tier unless you don't consider mid commander level (whatever this level is (seriously idk can you throw me an example)) a top tier fighter I guess
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Isn't mid Commander level the level Jack is on?
I mean I guess I could see that, but that's a far cry from a top tier
I genuinely don't see a reason why Bonney pushes Old Gaban or Kizaru (just two random examples of top tiers) past even a neg diff honestly
And that's not me slandering Bonney as I dont really have an opinion on her one way or the other but those characters have consistent feats of holding their own against another top tier as well as destroying high tiers like Sommers and Sentomaru. Bonney so far has only defeated Saturn and even then she didn't really defeat him despite Luffy helping her (not to mention Saturn is likely the weakest Gorosei and the least durable of them)
Her defeating the VAs is impressive but honestly that's something even Killer can do easily imo
 
Kachon123 said:
It's not on purpose. Sometimes (honestly it's most times as of late) when typing on mobile, vsbw automatically posts advertisements into your text box which you manually have to delete. It's pretty annoying. I've seen it happen to others and it also happens to me from time to time.
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Okay, good to know, thanks.
 
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