Devil May Cry: Into The Multiverse

[Unoriginal777]

Alright, many issues with this

1. Where is the quantum thing come from?

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2. The part DmC is a parallel world to DMC was said by a site with no source, where is the official source?, because the site just said a bunch theory thing than actual proof, and iirc DmC is a reboot, a total reimagination of the original DMC, Literal Angel was never a thing in original DMC for example

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3. What if part is fine, but why infinite demons and infinite sized demon realm = infinite timelines?, don't tell me you think there are infinite possibilities because there are infinite demons and each demon can produce a what-if, and multiplies them to infinite amount? If thay is the reason, i disagree

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1. Quantum is not the issue so much as the DMC multiverse's similarities to the Quantum Mechanical theorem of MWI as a concept which is contingent on the notion of what-if.
2. Fair enough. This is ultimately not relevant in the grand scheme of things and was never my core argument.
3. Why would we not believe that each what if a demon has added to all other demons wouldn't be infinite possibilities since the whole basis of the DMC multiverse is the notion that every potential possibility is directly actualized. If there are infinite characters per timeline as you concede then the quantity of possibilities amongst this combined pool must axiomatically be infinite via Occam's Razor as the math can't amount to anything less (please show me how an infinite number of characters would when adding their possible choices together somehow amount to a finite number of choices cause I don't see how that is possible mathematically unless we argue certain characters don't have a possibility including the choices made in the main timeline which is well...not possible as far as I can see). You need actual evidence via Hitchens Razor why this wouldn't be the case for DMC given how the multiverse works by its own criterion, but I digress.

 

[Marosuke]

Alright, many issues with this

1. Where is the quantum thing come from?
2. The part DmC is a parallel world to DMC was said by a site with no source, where is the official source?, because the site just said a bunch theory thing than actual proof, and iirc DmC is a reboot, a total reimagination of the original DMC, Literal Angel was never a thing in original DMC for example
3. What if part is fine, but why infinite demons and infinite sized demon realm = infinite timelines?, don't tell me you think there are infinite possibilities because there are infinite demons and each demon can produce a what-if, and multiplies them to infinite amount? If thay is the reason, i disagree

1 idk
2 The director of the reboot said that it is a different timeline in the interview.

3 Basically, the novel says timelines exist as many as possibilities. And then there is a flavor text from Teppen. Vergil said that the possibilities are infinite.

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

snip

This OP & many subsequent posts have a bunch of dross but interesting points as well. Read it all if you like, but I can help you get up to speed quickly by highlighting the most worthwhile parts.

As far as 2-A cosmology goes, it's as simple as the Devil May Cry Volume 2 novel (often referred to as "the DMC2 novel") having a part where Dante is BFR'ed to another timeline in which he had turned evil as it is revealed that every possible choice results in a new timeline, which is 2-A by VSBW standards if I'm not mistaken. The OP uses Japanese scans with their own translation, which iirc they failed to run by VSBW official verification; the original is on the Divinity Statue website, with p.156 being the source of the quotes if that needs to be double-checked. I'm less familiar with Peak of Combat, but it also seems to have alternate timelines, though I don't know of any infinite-timeline quotes in PoC.

As far as 2-A stats go, this post is a good recap that cuts to the chase for you.

 

[Vietthai96]

Basically, the novel says timelines exist as many as possibilities

What Novel?

Vergil said that the possibilities are infinite.

Card game?, also this is too hyperbolic to me

The director of the reboot said that it is a different timeline in the interview.

Yeah?, but contradict, i mean, if it was different timeline, what about Angel and thing, like, if it was different timeline, like the thing DMC Dante got pulled into, every fundamental things of the verse is still there, just have different events. With DmC, thing changed fundamentally, literal angel somehow exist, nephilim and other things too

That was just a basic description of MWI...

You need direct proof, not some sematic similarity in description

Why would we not believe that each what if a demon has added to all other demons wouldn't be infinite possibilities since the whole basis of the DMC multiverse is the notion that every potential possibility is directly actualized. If there are infinite characters per timeline as you concede then the quantity of possibilities amongst this combined pool must axiomatically be infinite via Occam's Razor as the math can't amount to anything less (please show me how an infinite number of characters would when adding their possible choices together somehow amount to a finite number of choices cause I don't see how that is possible mathematically unless we argue certain characters don't have a possibility including the choices made in the main timeline which is well...not possible as far as I can see). You need actual evidence via Hitchens Razor why this wouldn't be the case for DMC given how the multiverse works by its own criterion, but I digress.

i didn't conceded anything? Where do you get that?, this logic is simply a big leap in logic, not even Occam Razor or anything. Your logic is just, demon realm are infinite, so there infinite demons, and each demon choice = timeline, so infinite demons = infinite timelines, issue is
1. is there actually have infinite demons, no direct evidence, only based on the demon realm is infinite thus its inhabitants must have infinite number as well, one assumption. We could have an infinite space with finite numbers of thing in it
2. do demons actually make choice to create timeline?, two assumption

Anyway, at best i can only see Possibly/Likely 2-A rating, that is very generous ngl, due to most of this is big assumption

 

[Unoriginal777]

What Novel?


Card game?, also this is too hyperbolic to me


Yeah?, but contradict, i mean, if it was different timeline, what about Angel and thing, like, if it was different timeline, like the thing DMC Dante got pulled into, every fundamental things of the verse is still there, just have different events. With DmC, thing changed fundamentally, literal angel somehow exist, nephilim and other things too


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You need direct proof, not some sematic similarity in description


i didn't conceded anything? Where do you get that?, this logic is simply a big leap in logic, not even Occam Razor or anything. Your logic is just, demon realm are infinite, so there infinite demons, and each demon choice = timeline, so infinite demons = infinite timelines, issue is
1. is there actually have infinite demons, no direct evidence, only based on the demon realm is infinite thus its inhabitants must have infinite number as well, one assumption. We could have an infinite space with finite numbers of thing in it
2. do demons actually make choice to create timeline?, two assumption

Anyway, at best i can only see Possibly/Likely 2-A rating, that is very generous ngl, due to most of this is big assumption

Btw, the first post already states that there are infinite demons outright which you seem to have ignored. However, that analogy is not even necessary. I need only use the fact that the DW is infinite combined with the fact that a character like Vergil who had been trapped in the Underworld for some time could potentially portal to any number of areas in Hell which again is infinite. Thus, he could travel to infinite places during his time potentially in terms of his options which when combined with the multiverse again pans out to 2-A. If that isn't enough you can always use the Devil Mite example wherein she has literally infinite powers and therefore infinite possibilities to choose from. Furthermore, yes demons do make choices or at least should via Occam's Razor because timelines differ not on the choices humans make but possibilities in general without any discrimination. You'd need proof to take away from the plainness of the criterion via Hitchens Razor with evidence that demons don't have possible choices. Oh and to make matters worse for you we actually have direct evidence of our claim as possibilities show that in the other world Mundus kidnaps Dante which is different compared to the regular timeline showing that Demon choices do influence the pool.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Yeah?, but contradict, i mean, if it was different timeline, what about Angel and thing, like, if it was different timeline, like the thing DMC Dante got pulled into, every fundamental things of the verse is still there, just have different events. With DmC, thing changed fundamentally, literal angel somehow exist, nephilim and other things too

That's a good point. If the timelines/alternate worlds of DMC's multiverse are made up of what-ifs, how is it possible that DmC is part of that multiverse? What kind of what-ifs can lead to such drastic changes?

 

[Marosuke]

What Novel?

From Devil May Cry Vol.2

Card game?, also this is too hyperbolic to me

I just thought it would be better to have an actual statement.
Teppen was developed by Capcom.

Capcom and GungHo Launch Co-Developed Title TEPPEN!– Mobile game released globally, features a host of Capcom’s major series – | Press Release | CAPCOM

株式会社カプコンは、ガンホー・オンライン・エンターテイメント株式会社（以下、ガンホー）との共同開発によるスマートフォン向けゲーム『TEPPEN』を、北米・欧州で7月4日（現地時間）よりApp StoreおよびGoogle Playストアにて配信を開始し、日本・アジアにおいては後日配信を予定しておりますのでお知らせいたします。

www.capcom.co.jp

Yeah?, but contradict, i mean, if it was different timeline, what about Angel and thing, like, if it was different timeline, like the thing DMC Dante got pulled into, every fundamental things of the verse is still there, just have different events. With DmC, thing changed fundamentally, literal angel somehow exist, nephilim and other things too

It means many possibilities exist outside the main timeline. Like a timeline where the angels exist. Capcom deliberately let it happen.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

That's a good point. If the timelines/alternate worlds of DMC's multiverse are made up of what-ifs, how is it possible that DmC is part of that multiverse? What kind of what-ifs can lead to such drastic changes?

Hence why I disagree with the whole MWI stuff

In the original world there is nothing remotely close to angels. Just demons and that's it.

 

[Unoriginal777]

Hence why I disagree with the whole MWI stuff

In the original world there is nothing remotely close to angels. Just demons and that's it.

Regardless, the possibilities of the multiverse model should be infinite, no?

 

[Vietthai96]

Btw, the first post already states that there are infinite demons outright which you seem to have ignored.

Link is broken to me for some reasons, will look at it another time

 

[Unoriginal777]

Link is broken to me for some reasons, will look at it another time

What of the Devil Mite and Vergil example I provided? Those should be sufficient alternatives, no?

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Link is broken to me for some reasons, will look at it another time

Sparda killed and Seal entire endless demons - Album on Imgur

Discover the magic of the internet at Imgur, a community powered entertainment destination. Lift your spirits with funny jokes, trending memes, entertaining gifs, inspiring stories, viral videos, and so much more from users like VoidMiddus12.

imgur.com

 

[SuperSonicTL]

snip

Alright I'm free from work now soo I wish to justify infinite multiverse for you here in detail:

Many World Interpretation​

The many-worlds interpretation (MWI) is an interpretation of quantum mechanics that asserts that the universal wavefunction is objectively real, and that there is no wave function collapse.[1] This implies that all possible outcomes of quantum measurements are physically realized in different "worlds" - Wikipedia

The many-worlds interpretation implies that there are many parallel, non-interacting worlds. It is one of a number of multiverse hypotheses in physics and philosophy. MWI views time as a many-branched tree, wherein every possible quantum outcome is realized. This is intended to resolve the measurement problem and thus some paradoxes of quantum theory, such as Wigner's friend,[4]: 4–6  the EPR paradox[5]: 462 [1]: 118  and Schrödinger's cat,[6] since every possible outcome of a quantum event exists in its own world. - Wikipedia

Let's look at the translation at hand here:

There are many "ifs (or what-ifs)" as there are possibilities, alternative worlds of parallel existence.

As you can see—word-to-word—it states there exists as many worlds as their are "what-ifs" or "possibilities". There is no nuances around here to discuss at all. It's clearly describing MWI.

DmC: Devil May Cry​

The reboot timeline is canon to cosmology as you can see here:

The conventional “Devil May Cry” series and “DMC” have a parallel world relationship.

However, that doesn't mean it contradicts MWI—you can still call it a parallel world within a "broader" multiverse. It isn't an impossible concept in sci-fi stories. The mainline DMC can operate with their own set of multiverse where as Reboot can operate with it's own.

You used to work on Dragon Ball cosmology, correct? Then you should also know that there are multiple sets of Histories/Multiverses existing that are separated from one another. Some examples of it includes Chasm of Time (CoT) or Time Vault and others. I have my fair share of experience with that verse—regardless if it's movies, mangas, animes or games soo I know atleast this much.

Note: Kindly, don't take this as a matter of challenge or anything. I'm just trying to prove a point which you can understand the best here.

"Infinite/Endless"​

Since we have a cosmology where multiple worlds on the basis of possibilities are realized, I wish to put more emphasis that the world of Devil May Cry can be infinite in many ways:

• Demon World is stated to be an Endless Darkness.
• There is an endless sea within Demon World.
• The void (or Demon World?) that exists within the timeline is stated to be infinite.
• There are Endless Demons within Demon World.
• There are infinite numbers of Demon Class called "Homromsira" within Demon World.
• Devil Mite has Endless arsenal of techniques that manipulate space and elements.

There are other infinite statements too but they are mostly align with continuous process (could be infinite depending on the perspective) soo I discarded them from the examples here. With all that said, since the amount of possibilities is utterly infinite in a space that expands infinitely, it is obvious by this relationship that there can exist an infinite worlds on the basis of this.

I hope this clarifies all kinds of confusion you had recently. It is clear you didn't payed attention and skimmed through scan which says reboot is a parallel world. You just labeled the thread as "disagree" even without elaborating if you even agree with the feats there that scales to multiverse. However, I can give you a leasure about it since you haven't argued against it soo far which implies you are fine with it. Feel free to reply back—I'd be waiting.

 

[Vietthai96]

However, that doesn't mean it contradicts MWI—you can still call it a parallel world within a "broader" multiverse. It isn't an impossible concept in sci-fi stories. The mainline DMC can operate with their own set of multiverse where as Reboot can operate with it's own.

You used to work on Dragon Ball cosmology, correct? Then you should also know that there are multiple sets of histories/Multiverses existing that are separated from one another. Some examples of it includes Chasm of Time (CoT) or Time Vault and others. I have my fair share of experience with that verse—regardless if it's movies, mangas, anime or games soo I know atleast this much.

Yeah, no, the DB Game multiverse is completely different from DMC multiverse; it has direct statements and multiple pieces of evidence, and fundamentally, core elements are mostly the same across the entire multiverse, such as Angels, Gods, Supreme Kai, there could be some exclusive characters in some selective timelines, but fundamentally, they are mostly similar, like all Gokus across all timelines are Saiyan, etc..... DMC and DmC on the other hand, are extremely different to the point of no matter how hard you try, it is irreconcilable

As you can see—word-to-word—it states there exists as many worlds as their are "what-ifs" or "possibilities". There is no nuances around here to discuss at all. It's clearly describing MWI.

there is no word-to-word, ngl, since you mentioned DB, DB have better statements for MWI and well, the verse didn't even get it

Anyway, at best, i could agree with Possibly/Likely 2-A for cosmology

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Yeah, no, the DB Game multiverse is completely different from DMC multiverse; it has direct statements and multiple pieces of evidence, and fundamentally, core elements are mostly the same across the entire multiverse, such as Angels, Gods, Supreme Kai, there could be some exclusive characters in some selective timelines, but fundamentally, they are mostly similar, like all Gokus across all timelines are Saiyan, etc..... DMC and DmC on the other hand, are extremely different to the point of no matter how hard you try, it is irreconcilable

You are still missing the point. I already acknowledge that the sets of multiverse are not distinct to one another aside from minor nuances scattered around. I just said that multiple sets of worlds can exist independently. Reboot is also a similar scanerio. It's simply a part of greater multiverse in this case.

there is no word-to-word, ngl, since you mentioned DB, DB have better statements for MWI and well, the verse didn't even get it

Well, that's all for it since it's your opinion here. Others who read it (including @Planck69 and @DarkDragonMedeus here) related it to MWI. Also, I won't be soo sure if you mean DB has "better statements" considering the nuances with infinitely branched or branching worlds which we all just thrown it to perspective and moved on.

Also, that's not talking about MWI. That's just example of how small changes within the flow of time can cause different worlds to branch out as a result. I know how DB cosmology works as I argued it for years at this point. You can't argue it since someone ahead of me already labeled it as a mistranslation. If such a scans exists then I would've known about it ages ago and argued to hell and back.

Anyway, at best, i could agree with Possibly/Likely 2-A for cosmology

Well, better then nothing I suppose. Have a good day.

 

[Vietthai96]

You are still missing the point. I already acknowledge that the sets of multiverse are not distinct to one another aside from minor nuances scattered around. I just said that multiple sets of worlds can exist independently. Reboot is also a similar scanerio. It's simply a part of great multiverse in this case.

As i have said, not only the evidence is only 1 statement from a game magazine Famitsu, but also the difference was so massive that, as i have said, it is irreconcilable

So you mentioned DB Game as something to support your idea, which, while understandable, isn't helping

 

[Unoriginal777]

As i have said, not only the evidence is only 1 statement from a game magazine Famitsu, but also the difference was so massive that, as i have said, it is irreconcilable

So you mentioned DB Game as something to support your idea, which, while understandable, isn't helping

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You seem to be hardfocusing on the Famitsu article arguing Reboot as an alternate timeline which is of little importance to this argument's essential thrust beyond being an extra gloss. Now say we push that irrelevant issue aside we still have infinite possibilities due to a multitude of infinite things existing in Hell as Sonic brought up earlier. Add that to the DMC Multiverse which exists based on infinite possibilities and I struggle to see why this wouldn't outright be 2-A? Regardless, your stance is your own to keep. Thank you for being cordial throughout.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Im surprised nobody brought up that PoC itself shown one of DmC locations in one of their trailers here for example

(ferris wheel with red sky being the 1st mission in reboot)

Besides the other claims its a parallel universe, isnt a multiverse with infinite posibilities suppose to be containing even deviations of the original like this?

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Im surprised nobody brought up that PoC itself shown one of DmC locations in one of their trailers here for example

(ferris wheel with red sky being the 1st mission in reboot)

Besides the other claims its a parallel universe, isnt a multiverse with infinite posibilities suppose to be containing even deviations of the original like this?

I know it's shameful to admit or maybe not that I didn't played the reboot yet but I will play it some day when I get some free time.

 

[Vietthai96]

You seem to be hardfocusing on the Famitsu article arguing Reboot as an alternate timeline which is of little importance to this argument's essential thrust beyond being an extra gloss. Now say we push that irrelevant issue aside we still have infinite possibilities due to a multitude of infinite things existing in Hell as Sonic brought up earlier. Add that to the DMC Multiverse which exists based on infinite possibilities and I struggle to see why this wouldn't outright be 2-A? Regardless, your stance is your own to keep. Thank you for being cordial throughout.

just replies to the claim Sonic made; idk why you think I'm hard-focusing on that part

 

[SuperSonicTL]

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You seem to be hardfocusing on the Famitsu article arguing Reboot as an alternate timeline which is of little importance to this argument's essential thrust beyond being an extra gloss. Now say we push that irrelevant issue aside we still have infinite possibilities due to a multitude of infinite things existing in Hell as Sonic brought up earlier. Add that to the DMC Multiverse which exists based on infinite possibilities and I struggle to see why this wouldn't outright be 2-A? Regardless, your stance is your own to keep. Thank you for being cordial throughout.

just replies to the claim Sonic made; idk why you think I'm hard-focusing on that part

Let's leave it and move on. Thanks for coming here either way Viet. You are a good man and sorry if my reply bothered you but it was all to make a point. I know you are busy man & I appreciate you take your time to answer in the threads actively. As said before, have a good day.

 

[Planck69]

Vietthai made some decent points but overall, I see the rating as being more solid than otherwise. I agree with the 2-A rating for the relevant cast.

 

[Vietthai96]

Let's leave it and move on. Thanks for coming here either way Viet. You are a good man and sorry if my reply bothered you but it was all to make a point. I know you are busy man & I appreciate you take your time to answer in the threads actively. As said before, have a good day.

No problem

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Im surprised nobody brought up that PoC itself shown one of DmC locations in one of their trailers here for example

(ferris wheel with red sky being the 1st mission in reboot)

Besides the other claims its a parallel universe, isnt a multiverse with infinite posibilities suppose to be containing even deviations of the original like this?

It isn't the same. Granted the 2.0 version doesn't even have the mission that includes this place anymore but still, it wasn't the same in 1.0

If memory does not fail me this was a Faye mission, could be wrong since it's been so ******* long. Also, the reason why it has a red sky in the reboot is because Donte got dragged to Limbo.

edit: nvm it was just an abandoned fair between mathilda town (I think that's the name) and the sanctuary where Dante got lured in because of Pluto

 

[Elizhaa]

2-A seems fine, overall, from the arguments and evidences.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

There is like 3 staff that gave the ok loud and clear, it needs more votes or is this as good as finished regarding big ratings like this?

 

[Random-Helper323]

There is like 3 staff that gave the ok loud and clear, it needs more votes or is this as good as finished regarding big ratings like this?

Vietthai didn't agree to the proposal, just to listing it as "Possibly".

I'd say one, maybe two more staff are needed here.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Vietthai didn't agree to the proposal, just to listing it as "Possibly".

I'd say one, maybe two more staff are needed here.

Tag Vietthai one more time and ask him where he belongs in his stance (agree, disagree or neutral).

My personal experience told me that it would be in agreement but with nuances of underlying probability mentioned but I suppose "at best" has its own meanings to deal with.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Tag Vietthai one more time and ask him where he belongs in his stance (agree, disagree or neutral).

My personal experience told me that it would be in agreement but with nuances of underlying probability mentioned but I suppose "at best" has its own meanings to deal with.

Okay.

@Vietthai96

Would you prefer to be listed as neutral, agreeing but only with a Possibly, or disagreeing?

 

[HelloThere1089]

Y'all don't need to disturb Viet again. His stance in the OP is pretty clear. What needs to be done is adding the 4th vote in the OP.

 

[Vietthai96]

You guys have 3 admin agreements for solid 2-A, my vote isn't really matter even if i'm against the thread, it is heavily outvoted (3 admins vs 1 thread mod), you can apply the solid rating. If you want, just list me as agree for possibly/likely 2-A

Though i recommend you guys putting these explanation into a blog or an explanation page

Call me again when you guys finish applies the CRT, i will lock the thread

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Vietthai didn't agree to the proposal, just to listing it as "Possibly".

I'd say one, maybe two more staff are needed here.

I thought only 3 staff were necessary to pass off on a CRT? But eh, anyways I was asked to give my opinion here by Sonic off site even though my vote literally won't mean much lol. I think both sides have given good arguments, I can see why Vietthai would lean towards only a possibly/likely rating but like the other 3 staff I agree with the arguments and evidence presented in the OP.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Planck told me that one need 3 solid agreements at least considering a jump from 2-C to 2-A is big but shouldn't require Tier 1 levels of eval from what he recalls.

I think it's way past the point of discussions here and there is alot of revisions left for the verse so let's apply it and close this.

 

[Vietthai96]

Planck told me that one need 3 solid agreements at least considering a jump from 2-C to 2-A is big but shouldn't require Tier 1 levels of eval from what he recalls.

I think it's way past the point of discussions here and there is alot of revisions left for the verse so let's apply it and close this.

2 thread mods and 1 admin agreements is enough iirc, DMC is a controversial verse though but i think those are enough. You got 3 admin agreements (DDM, Planck, Elizhaa) which is way more since admin have x2 voting power compare to thread mod

 

[HelloThere1089]

admin have x2 voting power compare to thread mod

didn't know we had votes scaling here

 

[SuperSonicTL]

didn't know we had votes scaling here

Now imagine what Super Mods can do

 

[Unoriginal777]

Now imagine what Super Mods can do

This is a mod that votes beyond a normal Super voter...or a super voter 2...and this....is to go...even further beyond....jokes aside in this case @SuperSonicTL we might as well close up shop for this thread.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

The chance is now, do DMC 2-A now!

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Snip

I wish to inform you that we are currently remaking many of our profiles from scratch so it would be a time consuming task. It's better if we close this thread right now and when the right time comes, we reference it up during implementation. Thanks for understanding.

 

[Vietthai96]

Closing