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It does! Well, lucky day.
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(GRACE) Adding Pokemon Masters to the canon
- Thread starter Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
- Start date
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- Tags
- pokémon pokemon masters
- Status
- 5,388
- 4,828
Start Grace.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
He/Him- 5,382
- 1,149
- Thread starter
- #203
No, do not start Grace. He was referring to the new stuff that was proposed, not to my CRT.
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Then your CRT has REJECTION grace, while the new proposals were accepted.
Grace isn't even needed it passed a long time ago, so...
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
He/Him- 5,382
- 1,149
- Thread starter
- #205
The new proposals were for my CRT. Not like it matters, I wanted this closed a long time ago.
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FEH is canon, and will eventually be put on the main profiles, so not the same case here.
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Threads can change proposals midway if its all agreed upon tbh, happened loads of times.
This literally just concludes that all Masters EX stuff can be made into separate profiles and the use of disambiguations boxes for their versions from mainline
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
He/Him- 5,382
- 1,149
- Thread starter
- #208
You mean that it must... which I'm not doing.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
He/Him- 5,382
- 1,149
- Thread starter
- #210
It sure would be nice if another mod evaluated this CRT.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
He/Him- 5,382
- 1,149
- Thread starter
- #211
Wait a minute, you're a mod now. Does this mean that you agree with the CRT?
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I'm not sure. The discussion has continued a lot since when I made that post.
Plus, I mentioned my stance was tentative in case points of contention came up.
What's the current case for the various sides of the arguments, if I may ask, please?
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I seriously hope you arent trying to forget the current stance we're having right now...
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
He/Him- 5,382
- 1,149
- Thread starter
- #214
Yeah, I figured you'd come back. And what is that?
- 5,243
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That the post and people's stances have changed in how we deal with Masters EX, and how we put it separate to the mainline canon.
You cant just hope another mod will blindly approve it, Get it pushed the way you want it, then ignore what is now being more widely agreed upon.
You cant just hope another mod will blindly approve it, Get it pushed the way you want it, then ignore what is now being more widely agreed upon.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
He/Him- 5,382
- 1,149
- Thread starter
- #216
Actually, would you be able to close this instead? I’ve pretty much lost any desire to touch this again.
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For the record: Pokémon Masters, as agreed on in this thread, is currently it's own world without many direct connections to mainline Pokémon.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
He/Him- 5,382
- 1,149
- Thread starter
- #218
Tough shit.
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I can do that. However, if any conclusions HAVE reached sufficient Staff Approval, closing this thread won't prevent them being implemented.
Also, this forum is still open & free; An argument's validity should not change just because a different person expresses it. Therefore, Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera: If you do wish to close this thread, or abandon it, please know that with the announcement of the thread's closure will also come with a query on if anyone wishes to adopt &/or recreate this CRT, so as to shoulder the weight of these topics. (Users need not reply, nor does anyone need to take over this if they do not wish to.)
Also, if you do choose to accept this, then the thread is to be closed following a 24 hour "grace period", just in case people wish to speak up responding that offer or in case other issues come up.
Is that acceptable to you, @Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera ?
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So basically, Masters EX is agreed upon to be included in separate profiles for its iterations of the characters (if anyone wants to make them) and scaling points from Masters EX isnt allowed to be on main profiles (and at most, things about backstory/character interpretation) once this grace period ends.
I can write a statement regarding it on the Verse page too once it gets implemented
I can write a statement regarding it on the Verse page too once it gets implemented
Wonder_of_Fantasy
She/Her- 2,761
- 1,471
I agree with the changes as per FinePoint's reasons and findings. It makes sense for Masters EX to be treated as secondary canon with seperate profiles.
If there is a discrepancy or contradiction present in said secondary work, then all there is to do is to objectively index it as you would anything else. Elements from the primary source material may be— and can be— adapted into spin-offs without implying a 1-to-1 translation of feats or main canonicity. Of course, evaluating what is carried over would inherently be a case-by-case process, which supports the need for separation in itself. I think creating profiles for the Masters EX continuity is the most logical and organized approach to handle this.
I also want to gently address the thread's atmosphere, as it is becoming increasingly concerning. I would strongly encourage both parties to disengage from this circular and unproductive back-and-forth. Continuing to engage in personal provocation or inflammatory comments only derails the CRT and risks action from the mods, which has historically been the outcome in these situations or later down the line. As the saying goes: the internet never forgets and always remembers. The same logic applies in this situation.
Lastly, there is a significant procedural issue must be addressed.
It seems that OP is fundamentally opposed to the findings of the discussion and is using their position to gatekeep and shut down discussions they disagree with, which, appears to be motivated by a personal agenda, this discussion of which— I think— should be free of that. Allowing an OP to unilaterally close a CRT when they are in direct opposition to a majority stance, including input from staff and knowledgeable members, sets a dangerous precedent. It also goes without saying that, this isn't an isolated incident, but part of a pattern of behavior that undermines the integrity of how we do revisions as a whole on this site.
That said, if this this thread is closed upon OP's request, it should be reopened immediately.
If there is a discrepancy or contradiction present in said secondary work, then all there is to do is to objectively index it as you would anything else. Elements from the primary source material may be— and can be— adapted into spin-offs without implying a 1-to-1 translation of feats or main canonicity. Of course, evaluating what is carried over would inherently be a case-by-case process, which supports the need for separation in itself. I think creating profiles for the Masters EX continuity is the most logical and organized approach to handle this.
I also want to gently address the thread's atmosphere, as it is becoming increasingly concerning. I would strongly encourage both parties to disengage from this circular and unproductive back-and-forth. Continuing to engage in personal provocation or inflammatory comments only derails the CRT and risks action from the mods, which has historically been the outcome in these situations or later down the line. As the saying goes: the internet never forgets and always remembers. The same logic applies in this situation.
Lastly, there is a significant procedural issue must be addressed.
It seems that OP is fundamentally opposed to the findings of the discussion and is using their position to gatekeep and shut down discussions they disagree with, which, appears to be motivated by a personal agenda, this discussion of which— I think— should be free of that. Allowing an OP to unilaterally close a CRT when they are in direct opposition to a majority stance, including input from staff and knowledgeable members, sets a dangerous precedent. It also goes without saying that, this isn't an isolated incident, but part of a pattern of behavior that undermines the integrity of how we do revisions as a whole on this site.
That said, if this this thread is closed upon OP's request, it should be reopened immediately.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
He/Him- 5,382
- 1,149
- Thread starter
- #222
Well, if people are that against closing this thing
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
He/Him- 5,382
- 1,149
- Thread starter
- #223
Yeah, no. I find an octillion different feats and scans to prove that Masters must be canon and then you come in with zero feats, zero scans, zero of anything and misrepresent my arguments, lie about the points I’m making, and you think your proposal to make Masters even more noncanon than it is now gets priority over my entire argument? **** that.
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Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
He/Him- 5,382
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- Thread starter
- #225
There's that lying I warned about.
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I also agree with Jinx and FinePoint.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
He/Him- 5,382
- 1,149
- Thread starter
- #228
‘Bout what?
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The fact that Masters EX should obviously be treated as just a secondary source and anything that contradicts the primary ones should be ignored rather than being treated as a retcon for the primary sources.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
He/Him- 5,382
- 1,149
- Thread starter
- #230
Oh. So basically it's secondary canon, but still canon?
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Yeah?
No need for all these questions, my stance is clear on how we treat that.
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Yeah, because the versions in Masters EX, within a crossover gacha game fanfic-esque story make it far better suited to put them in separate profiles rather than the scrutiny Masters EX faces because it doesnt align with mainline under multiple points. Pokemon, however, is a verse thats large and inconsistent in general so its overall just safer to put Masters EX versions within their own profiles. This also brings up no scaling concerns since theyre their own profiles
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Since the debate's most represented stances seems to be between putting it as main canon & secondary canon, if I understand right: Are there any arguments you or anyone else would like to present that Master EX should be Main Canon rather than Secondary Canon?
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
He/Him- 5,382
- 1,149
- Thread starter
- #234
I think that at worst it's a safety net and at best it'll never even come up in VS, so I'm fine with it being secondary canon.
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Good to know. I'd like to wait a bit for others to weigh in on this, just in case anyone wants to say anything, in part because I'm tired AtM & also I don't know Masters Ex as well as other parts of the franchise as I'd like to. I hope that of me can be forgiven.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
He/Him- 5,382
- 1,149
- Thread starter
- #236
It can. Hopefully I laid it out well in the OP.
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Masters EX will most DEFINITELY change tiering, scaling and debates with the massive amount of content and scaling implications it has crossing over (especially with Sean's style of scaling), and theres 0 need for whatever a 'safety net' means.
Its canon within its own realms, and can be part of a 'Pokemon multiverse' or w/e, but it most definitely should not be used to scale mainline or any other games in their own continuity. It's within its own thing and should have separate profiles to illustrate that, as is the case with most similar types of tie-in games like Masters EX to other franchises.
Its canon within its own realms, and can be part of a 'Pokemon multiverse' or w/e, but it most definitely should not be used to scale mainline or any other games in their own continuity. It's within its own thing and should have separate profiles to illustrate that, as is the case with most similar types of tie-in games like Masters EX to other franchises.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
He/Him- 5,382
- 1,149
- Thread starter
- #238
Wait... You only want separate profiles because you want to assume it's noncanon with no proof?
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
He/Him- 5,382
- 1,149
- Thread starter
- #240
Literally all you're saying is that it's noncanon so it doesn't deserve to be on mainline profiles, while ignoring any proof that it is and hoping that you've spammed enough to finally break through my defenses and any ability to fend you off.
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