[1-1-0] Breathing Buff Fellas vs Scissors Inside You (Jonathan Joestar & Will A. Zeppelli vs Risotto Nero)

[Nonynho]

Thought this could be interesting, first due to the irony that Iron deficiency (what Risotto can cause in his enemies) won't let you breathe properly, then I noticed this could possibly be fair game, so let's go!

They start 20m apart
Equal speed to make things easier
[If this makes things still valid: Risotto got wrong info that Jonathan knows where the Boss is]

Breathing | guys: JustANormalLemon

Iron fella: noninho

Dio and Aerosmith laugh at them (incon):

 

[Nonynho]

First bump

 

[JustANormalLemon]

are we using first key Jonathan Joestar, right?

 

[AThe1412]

are we using first key Jonathan Joestar, right?

Probably since he literally needs Zeppeli to die in order to get his second key. Not that it matters since they can oneshot Nero either way and Metallica can dura neg.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Sinse there is nothing stating Rissoto starts out of sight can't the 2 hammon users chain rammon trough the ground to dura neg Nero first thing?

 

[AThe1412]

Sinse there is nothing stating Rissoto starts out of sight can't the 2 hammon users chain rammon trough the ground to dura neg Nero first thing?

Hamon is only several meters in range when channeled through something according to the profiles and Risotto starts 20 meters away.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

So the battle starts with Rissoto running in the oposite direction and... shouldn't rissoto invisibility actually be camuflage sinse he only becomes the color of the surrondings not really see trough?

 

[AThe1412]

So the battle starts with Rissoto running in the oposite direction and... shouldn't rissoto invisibility actually be camuflage sinse he only becomes the color of the surrondings not really see trough?

They're functionally the same.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

They're functionally the same.

fair, anyway. so Nero starts trying to run away and get invisible while The hammon oys try to get close enough to get in hammon range, Jonathan(only Jonathan instead off both for some reason) know that he is in a timer thanks to metalica turning his blood into blades, my guess is that Jonathan would try to trow a piece of ground(like dirty with grass) on nero from a distance to help gain distance

 

[AThe1412]

fair, anyway. so Nero starts trying to run away and get invisible while The hammon oys try to get close enough to get in hammon range, Jonathan(only Jonathan instead off both for some reason) know that he is in a timer thanks to metalica turning his blood into blades, my guess is that Jonathan would try to trow a piece of ground(like dirty with grass) on nero from a distance to help gain distance

He can also use something made out of metal, like one of the blades or his own sword, to detect Risotto since it'll point in his direction.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

He can also use something made out of metal, like one of the blades or his own sword, to detect Risotto since it'll point in his direction.

fair but this battle most important moment is the start as with time the hamon boys will not even be able to use hamon thanks to the inability to breath, can the 2 of them defeat Risotto beefore It's to late? the distance say's no in my opnion

 

[AThe1412]

fair but this battle most important moment is the start as with time the hamon boys will not even be able to use hamon thanks to the inability to breath, can the 2 of them defeat Risotto beefore It's to late? the distance say's no in my opnion

Look at Risotto's range. He himself has to stay within 5 to 10 meters in order to manifest his Stand.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Look at Risotto's range. He himself has to stay within 5 to 10 meters in order to manifest his Stand.

I have problens reading range stats aparently... anyway


I can see Jonathan using his prior knoldge to keep him and zappeline far enough from one another to help locate Risotto as well the blade locating trick, with one being in good shape thanks to being far away I can see one "sacrificing" It self so the other can take the kill on Risotto, voting Hammon boys

 

[Nonynho]

See, if I can have Risotto to have fake prior knowledge we can get various things to happen here, like taking Will as hostage to try and press Jonathan
Or outright kill Will and threaten Jonathan to spill the info, then learning that he knows nothing and trying to end Jonathan

Can't see Jonathan taking much advantage cuz it's 10m that Risotto has to cover to start getting them into his range, FTL and invisible and he can instakill both.

if I can't have the fake info, Risotto wont have a hard time brutalizing them as both the point above is true and the fact that Risotto is specialized in doing things exactly like this for years, so it likely shouldn't be too hard for him to outperform even someone who knows how his powers work in a short distance.

(only Jonathan instead off both for some reason)

An acquaintance of ours (Chariot) outright told me to not put Will in this match, and I interpreted him telling me that it'd be more of a possible problem to Jonathan than a help, so to try exploring that also giving an advantage to their side, only Jonathan knows it (but to explain Risotto's powers it takes a very short time so it shouldn't be an impossible problem)

He can also use something made out of metal, like one of the blades or his own sword, to detect Risotto since it'll point in his direction.

I have found some sources claiming that Luck & Pluck is made out of silver, and if that is untrue, by 1888 swords were typically made out of steel alloys, not iron
To use one of Risotto's blade for his advantage, he'd have to acquire it, which on both scenarios (again, whether I can give Risotto fake info or not) can be proven very difficult because Risotto's first move is to make those sharp things come out of the victim, and depending on the scenario Jonathan is either dead too or would have to take the blade/sharp object out of Will or himself, which could take time and be intercepted by Risotto

my guess is that Jonathan would try to trow a piece of ground(like dirty with grass) on nero from a distance to help gain distance

The try to get the dirt from the floor would get an opportunity for an unadvised Will to just report a few seconds later that he saw him just disappearing in thin air, so ig it wouldn't be as much of a good idea

Voting Risotto

 

[JustANormalLemon]

What stops them from just both staing far away from one another so Risotto can't affect both at the same time? this would give the other plenty of time to locate Risotto and launch a counter attack

 

[Nonynho]

What stops them from just both staing far away from one another so Risotto can't affect both at the same time? this would give the other plenty of time to locate Risotto and launch a counter attack

Where is this limit that Risotto can only affect one of them?

Also, what'd stop them is that Risotto is the leader of the craziest assassins of the Mafia that basically controls all Italy, where the only fight we see him in, is against a guy who sees the future and had a split consciousness with someone who had prior information on him.

Basically, Risotto's experience should back him up together with his kit to justify why he wins, whether Risotto has the fake info or not

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Where is this limit that Risotto can only affect one of them?

just stay like.... 20 meters apart from one another so Risotto can't affect both thanks to limited range

Also, what'd stop them is that Risotto is the leader of the craziest assassins of the Mafia that basically controls all Italy, where the only fight we see him in, is against a guy who sees the future and had a split consciousness with someone who had prior information on him.

Basically, Risotto's experience should back him up together with his kit to justify why he wins, whether Risotto has the fake info or not

I mean, his biggest weakness is over reliance on stealth to be able to take on his oponents

 

[Chariot190]

Hamon is only several meters in range when channeled through something according to the profiles and Risotto starts 20 meters away.

Yeah except that's bullshit
Hamon is at least a good few dozen based on stuff like Jonathan trying to channel it through the chain, hitting Bruford through water at the bottom of a pond, hitting the kid who was climbing that cliff, etc.

So the battle starts with Rissoto running in the oposite direction and... shouldn't rissoto invisibility actually be camuflage sinse he only becomes the color of the surrondings not really see trough?

It isn't camouflage, it's like light refraction.

He can also use something made out of metal, like one of the blades or his own sword, to detect Risotto since it'll point in his direction.

This, liquid, etc will help. Jonathan and Will can use Hamon to sense life force with a conduit, the invisibility actually doesn't help much if at all given it should be easy to pull off.

Can't see Jonathan taking much advantage cuz it's 10m that Risotto has to cover to start getting them into his range, FTL and invisible and he can instakill both.

Jonathan and Will eclipse him in movement speed actually. It's like peak human vs subsonic, hell we just got a human Dio calc put out that's like 50mps and Will is fast enough to DBZ teleport over large distances.
Invisibility doesn't help much, especially because Will just lugs around wine and wine glasses.

An acquaintance of ours (Chariot) outright told me to not put Will in this match, and I interpreted him telling me that it'd be more of a possible problem to Jonathan than a help, so to try exploring that also giving an advantage to their side, only Jonathan knows it (but to explain Risotto's powers it takes a very short time so it shouldn't be an impossible problem)

I was more saying Risotto would just get jumped, even if he kills one, both one shot him and he can't dodge both.

I have found some sources claiming that Luck & Pluck is made out of silver, and if that is untrue, by 1888 swords were typically made out of steel alloys, not iron

Metallica doesn't use just iron, it's ability is magnetism, it's just that iron is the most abundant magnetic substance readily available.

What stops them from just both staing far away from one another so Risotto can't affect both at the same time? this would give the other plenty of time to locate Risotto and launch a counter attack

He can effect both, we've seen him effect multiple things at once within his AOE, it's how he tricked Doppio into attacking the wrong way.
As long as both within 5-10m.

Want to mention, Will has Hamon Cutters, that's strong enough to deflect Jack's knives that are launched with enough force they can split large slabs of rock, and also at range.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

It isn't camouflage, it's like light refraction.

light reflection is closer to the camuflage power then to invisibility, not that this matter here

He can effect both, we've seen him effect multiple things at once within his AOE, it's how he tricked Doppio into attacking the wrong way.
As long as both within 5-10m.

I meant they can stay far away from one another so they can't be on Risotto range at the same time

 

[Chariot190]

light reflection is closer to the camuflage power then to invisibility, not that this matter here

It's def invisibility given how people see things is due to light in the first place, it's the exact same thing Latias and Latios do, or Stealth Camo from MGS. They refract light.

I meant they can stay far away from one another so they can't be on Risotto range at the same time

Would they even know his range? I mean they might figure it out eventually, but to figure out the range, they would have needed to be damaged a handful of times first and use the examples they've been hurt by, and distances where they aren't being attacked, and deduce it off that.
I say this because prior knowledge is super unfair, Jonathan just channels some Hamon in the ground start of match and wins without ever getting close, and Ris can't stop that.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

It's def invisibility given how people see things is due to light in the first place, it's the exact same thing Latias and Latios do, or Stealth Camo from MGS. They refract light.

Don't forget Active Camo in Halo.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

It's def invisibility given how people see things is due to light in the first place, it's the exact same thing Latias and Latios do, or Stealth Camo from MGS. They refract light.

Fair

Would they even know his range? I mean they might figure it out eventually, but to figure out the range, they would have needed to be damaged a handful of times first and use the examples they've been hurt by, and distances where they aren't being attacked, and deduce it off that.
I say this because prior knowledge is super unfair, Jonathan just channels some Hamon in the ground start of match and wins without ever getting close, and Ris can't stop that.

I'm argumenting thinking Jonathan having prior knoldge sinse noninho did gave Jonathan(and only Jonathan) prior knoldge

We probable should get a more especific number for Hammon range on the profiles

 

[Nonynho]

Jonathan and Will eclipse him in movement speed

Speed is equal. If I forgot to write, it should be from the start.

Metallica doesn't use just iron, it's ability is magnetism, it's just that iron is the most abundant magnetic substance readily available.

Quote from the profile:

Metallica has Magnetism Manipulation (Specifically affects iron, but can draw it from any source, such as blood and the earth, transforming it into weapons; using his opponent's blood stops them from properly circulating oxygen)

Both what the profiles says and what I recall him saying is that specifically Iron is his thing
But I know I'm talking to The Jojo source guy, I'd be very open to being proven wrong here

I was more saying Risotto would just get jumped, even if he kills one, both one shot him and he can't dodge both.

Oh shit, so you meant it'd be a stomp where they win...
So what can I do to make it less stomp-ish? I take Will off, or just Jonathan's prior knowledge could solve the problem?

I say this because prior knowledge is super unfair, Jonathan just channels some Hamon in the ground start of match and wins without ever getting close, and Ris can't stop that.

Would take it off make it less stomp-ish or do I have to do something more, here?

 

[Chariot190]

Speed is equal. If I forgot to write, it should be from the start.

I'm aware. Speed equal equalizes to combat speed, other speeds get decreased relative though. They still have higher movement speed.

Both what the profiles says and what I recall him saying is that specifically Iron is his thing
But I know I'm talking to The Jojo source guy, I'd be very open to being proven wrong here

What? Bro the citation for "specifically affects iron", is a link to our metal manipulation page, not an actual statement saying it's only iron (because no such statement exists)

Would take it off make it less stomp-ish or do I have to do something more, here?

I mean with prior knowledge he just senses him and channels Hamon through stuff outside a 5-10m AOE. Bro can't really do anything at that point except maybe launch scalpels or stuff at Jonathan, who can easily deflect or dodge. I'd remove it, but keep the fact that Ris thinks Jonathan might lead him to the boss, so Jonathan would be attacked and can figure out what's happening more or less to some degree, but isn't instantly killed.

 

[Nonynho]

What? Bro the citation for "specifically affects iron", is a link to our metal manipulation page, not an actual statement saying it's only iron (because no such statement exists)

Well, then why is this statement there and not "affects metal" or something?
But anyway, I think this idea that Jonathan would use the sword for tracking him wouldn't be the first or second option for them.

but keep the fact that Ris thinks Jonathan might lead him to the boss

This is a great idea but idk it the match would he add-able then, got no answer on the thread I made asking that
That's why I'm answering Lemon and Athe1412 addressing both cases, where i can do it and where I can't.
Will remove the prior knowledge only, for now
Any input with the new rules, in both cases?

 

[Chariot190]

Well, then why is this statement there and not "affects metal" or something?

Idk why is Angelo MFTL for being statued by Plat

But anyway, I think this idea that Jonathan would use the sword for tracking him wouldn't be the first or second option for them.

It wouldn't, but he still has the sword, which means Ris could potentially make use of it. It isn't like the sword stops being there if Jonathan isn't actively holding it.

This is a great idea but idk it the match would he add-able then, got no answer on the thread I made asking that
That's why I'm answering Lemon and Athe1412 addressing both cases, where i can do it and where I can't.
Will remove the prior knowledge only, for now
Any input with the new rules, in both cases?

You can do it, it's just basic battle set up and is something that Ris could realistically believe in a hypothetical (Superhuman character being in a place that might be important to the boss, instantly made him suspect Doppio).

 

[Nonynho]

Idk

Wow, fr?
Lmfao

It wouldn't, but he still has the sword, which means Ris could potentially make use of it. It isn't like the sword stops being there if Jonathan isn't actively holding it.

Yeah, I just think that using the one in his blood would be more effective too
So basically the sword is a contingency plan for both

You can do it, it's just basic battle set up and is something that Ris could realistically believe in a hypothetical (Superhuman character being in a place that might be important to the boss, instantly made him suspect Doppio).

Okay, then
Very nice thar Jonathan doesn't get instakilled anymore

I still believe that Risotto wins this with a quite difficult time due to outskill in this particular scenario, the possibility of making Will a hostage, and some more

 

[Chariot190]

I still believe that Risotto wins this with a quite difficult time due to outskill in this particular scenario,

Since when does Ris outskill anyone?

the possibility of making Will a hostage, and some more

How would that even work? Why wouldn't Will just exit the range? How does holding him hostage kill Jonathan? How would Jonathan even know Will is "hostage" unless Ris explains why which would reveal his abilities? In fact why is Will the hostage? He's way more experienced and skilled compared to Jonathan pre-deep pass, and Jonathan having the stats over him don't matter here because both one shot.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Still voting the Hammon Boys, they seen to have a easier time here in my opnion especially sinse Risotto don't start hidden, Risotto would also hold back sinse he wants to extract information from Jonathan and the fact the Hammon boys can one shoot while Risotto takes some time to kill gives me the idea that the boys win more times then not

 

[Nonynho]

How would that even work?

He doesn't exactly need to give much information out, just open up some of his veins and say that he'll finish the job if Jonathan doesn't give out the information.
Then what Jonathan and Zeppelli will be knowing is that the guy can get invisible and somehow made Will bleed a lot with wounds open up from inside.
With such threat made, they can try to be far from where he spoke the last and eventually, as I see it, Risotto will understand that Jonathan knows nothing and get opportunities to end both.

Also the fact that this hostage operation can be made from quite the distance makes things easier

the fact the Hammon boys can one shoot while Risotto takes some time to kill gives me the idea that the boys win more times then not

Risotto can and would one shot them immediately, he just won't with the condition we put out for the battle to be fair
But it's nothing he cannot deal with.

Specially if we take into consideration the plan to try taking him out while far away when their combat speed is the same as his (as pointed out earlier).

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Risotto can and would one shot them immediately, he just won't with the condition we put out for the battle to be fair
But it's nothing he cannot deal with.

Specially if we take into consideration the plan to try taking him out while far away when their combat speed is the same as his (as pointed out earlier).

Sinse when risotto razord one shoot? takes some time to make the target bleed out

 

[Nonynho]

Sinse when risotto razord one shoot? takes some time to make the target bleed out

He doesn't need to make anybody bleed
And he can one shot basically any human being with a needle to their brain.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

He doesn't need to make anybody bleed
And he can one shot basically any human being with a needle to their brain.

I mean, we never seen he do that but fair

 

[Nonynho]

I mean, we never seen he do that but fair

Wouldn't be out of character
And we know that he didn't kill or left alone his only opponent because he wanted information from him

 

[JustANormalLemon]

okay let's go back to basic, so what stops the Hammon boy from one shooting trough hammon channeling the ground at the start of the battle?

 

[Nonynho]

okay let's go back to basic, so what stops the Hammon boy from one shooting trough hammon channeling the ground at the start of the battle?

They don't do this as a first move, do they?

If they do and I recall it wrongly, they have equal combat speed and no info about Risotto
So they'll see him disappearing and have no clue on how to find him.
Then he'll have all of his kit and opportunity to use it on the creative way that an assassin of his caliber is capable of, while they know nothing about him

 

[Nonynho]

Bump

 

[JustANormalLemon]

They don't do this as a first move, do they?

If they do and I recall it wrongly, they have equal combat speed and no info about Risotto
So they'll see him disappearing and have no clue on how to find him.
Then he'll have all of his kit and opportunity to use it on the creative way that an assassin of his caliber is capable of, while they know nothing about him

Can't they just make a AOE hammon wave in all directions to reach risotto?

 

[Nonynho]

Can't they just make a AOE hammon wave in all directions to reach risotto?

They can, but is that a tactic for them?

 

[JustANormalLemon]

They can, but is that a tactic for them?

I mean, I don't see why not do that when seeing your oponent going invisible, jojo is know for thpuse creative thinking tatics