The Shadow Monarch vs The one who walks in the darkness (6-12-0)

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I've been thinking about this one for quite a while now...

Sung Jin-Woo vs Sasuke Uchiha

Sung Jin-Woo is at this Epilogue Key while Sasuke is in his Fourth Shinobi War key, specifically during his fight with Kabuto (it may change depending on how the fight goes). Both have minor information on the other.

Speed is NOT equal (I think that by feats and scaling the should be able to hang out in close quarters with relative ease)

I’m always leveling up ceaselessly: 6 (Phoenks, That_moron2 Anonymous_Learner, Dooyo, Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye, Tatsumi504)

I have long since closed my eyes... My only goal is in the darkness: 12 (AlternativePrinciple. Fallen_Angelicx, TheTenno07, Robo432343, Medaka691, CastoriceTheFifth, Dark_Soul20189, karo_senpaii, DavidTPPM, Delusionaltx2, Trihexa102, Catbowtie)

 

[TheTenno07]

which keys are being used?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Sung Jin-Woo is at this Epilogue Key while Sasuke is in his Fourth Shinobi War key, specifically during his fight with Kabuto (it may change depending on how the fight goes).

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

I've been thinking about this one for quite a while now...

Sung Jin-Woo vs Sasuke Uchiha

Sung Jin-Woo is at this Epilogue Key while Sasuke is in his Fourth Shinobi War key, specifically during his fight with Kabuto (it may change depending on how the fight goes). Both have minor information on the other.

Speed is NOT equal (I think that by feats and scaling the should be able to hang out in close quarters with relative ease)

I’m always leveling up ceaselessly:

I have long since closed my eyes... My only goal is in the darkness:

At this point in the story, I believe Sung is FTL via mentions in the novel regarding Antares's dragon breath, but Sasuke has FTL reaction speed thanks to being stronger at the Kage Summit, where he reacted to an attack at the speed of light.

So I'd say they're evenly matched in terms of speed (more so since we don't have Sung's official calculations).

Leaving aside the speed issue, I have no idea about Sung's AP, except that Sasuke with Susanoo on his profile is Small Country+.

But if we assume they have the same power scale, does Sung have any countermeasures against genjutsu?

 

[TheTenno07]

At this point in the story, I believe Sung is FTL via mentions in the novel regarding Antares's dragon breath, but Sasuke has FTL reaction speed thanks to being stronger at the Kage Summit, where he reacted to an attack at the speed of light.

So I'd say they're evenly matched in terms of speed (more so since we don't have Sung's official calculations).

Leaving aside the speed issue, I have no idea about Sung's AP, except that Sasuke with Susanoo on his profile is Small Country+.

But if we assume they have the same power scale, does Sung have any countermeasures against genjutsu?

Sung has resistance to perception manipulation so he should be able to resist genjutsus

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

At this point in the story, I believe Sung is FTL via mentions in the novel regarding Antares's dragon breath, but Sasuke has FTL reaction speed thanks to being stronger at the Kage Summit, where he reacted to an attack at the speed of light.

So I'd say they're evenly matched in terms of speed (more so since we don't have Sung's official calculations).

Same

Leaving aside the speed issue, I have no idea about Sung's AP, except that Sasuke with Susanoo on his profile is Small Country+.

Sung massively upscales from 11.6 Gigatons of TNT while Sasuke upscales from an unknown 4.3 gigatons calc (who makes these profiles?)

 

[Phoenks]

Can Sasuke interact with souls in base?

Btw, Jinwoo one-shots armies of people who scale to the island level value. He probably one shots Sasuke as well. Not to mention his existence erasure and Regen neg stuff.

He also has hundreds of island level shadow soldiers who have higher-level Low-Godly which allows them to come back from being erased (as spiritual bodies). And then like 10,000,000 soldiers who all downscale from him.

In particular, Fangs can cast like 8 status effects simultaneously: blindness, pain inducement, disease, sleep, etc...

Has dragons that erase people with their breath.

What can Sasuke do to deal with such an overwhelming army? Especially considering many of them can just one shot him.

 

[TheTenno07]

Can Sasuke interact with souls in base?

Btw, Jinwoo one-shots armies of people who scale to the island level value. He probably one shots Sasuke as well. Not to mention his existence erasure and Regen neg stuff.

He also has hundreds of island level shadow soldiers who have higher-level Low-Godly which allows them to come back from being erased (as spiritual bodies). And then like 10,000,000 soldiers who all downscale from him.

In particular, Fangs can cast like 8 status effects simultaneously: blindness, pain inducement, disease, sleep, etc...

Has dragons that erase people with their breath.

What can Sasuke do to deal with such an overwhelming army? Especially considering many of them can just one shot him.

Jin woo fra

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Jin woo FRA

 

[Robo432343]

sasuke's genjutsu is layered so i'll vote him

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Can Sasuke interact with souls in base?

Profile implies he can, dunno

Btw, Jinwoo one-shots armies of people who scale to the island level value. He probably one shots Sasuke as well. Not to mention his existence erasure and Regen neg stuff.

He also has hundreds of island level shadow soldiers who have higher-level Low-Godly which allows them to come back from being erased (as spiritual bodies). And then like 10,000,000 soldiers who all downscale from him.

below

In particular, Fangs can cast like 8 status effects simultaneously: blindness, pain inducement, disease, sleep, etc...

Pretty sure he resists some of those? Or just powers through some of them

Has dragons that erase people with their breath.

What can Sasuke do to deal with such an overwhelming army? Especially considering many of them can just one shot him.

here :v

idk lol he isn't as haxxed as he is in the rinnegan key

I'm the OP so I don't really like immersing into the debate but things like amaterasu let him hit waaaay above his own paygrade and it kinda is one of his first moves.

I kinda predicted the whole "overwhelming army and fire power" so the OP mentioned this, do you think a higher end for Sasuke would still be a fair match?

 

[TheTenno07]

sasuke's genjutsu is layered so i'll vote him

is enchanted the same as layered? if not then i can't find where on the profile is said that

 

[Robo432343]

is enchanted the same as layered? if not the i can't find where on the profile is said that

Naruto: Genjutsu Potency

vsbattles.fandom.com

genjutsu layers is higher than jin woos resistance

 

[GodEarh206]

Oh yeah, Jinwoo FRA

 

[GodEarh206]

I'm the OP so I don't really like immersing into the debate but things like amaterasu let him hit waaaay above his own paygrade and it kinda is one of his first moves.

I kinda predicted the whole "overwhelming army and fire power" so the OP mentioned this, do you think a higher end for Sasuke would still be a fair match?

Nah, not stomp

 

[Phoenks]

Sasuke can prolly just put Jinwoo in genjutsu. Idk what his first move is though, I don't have knowledge of Naruto.

But the thing is, if Jinwoo summons his shadow soldiers, they can continue to fight for him even if he is temporarily incapacitated.

 

[DavidTPPM]

The FRA train here is wild man.
Sasuke literally 1-looks him. This Sasuke has about 4 layers of mind hax bullshit which activates with as little as a single glance.

Sasuke can prolly just put Jinwoo in genjutsu. Idk what his first move is though, I don't have knowledge of Naruto.

Sasuke is very much willing to start with genjutsu. 5ks Sasuke completely paralyzed Cee with it from basically the start and seemingly tried to genjustu Ay right away as well. He also spammed it a lot in his previous keys (except for the Bee fight specifically because he was overly confident about his new power but once he got humbled he immediately pulled it out to neg Bee)

But the thing is, if Jinwoo summons his shadow soldiers, they can continue to fight for him even if he is temporarily incapacitated.

Sasuke isn't limited to just incapping Jinwoo. He can manipulate not just his senses but his mind as well. He could force Jinwoo to un-summon his army and either kill himself or surrender

 

[Phoenks]

The FRA train here is wild man.
Sasuke literally 1-looks him. This Sasuke has about 4 layers of mind hax bullshit which activates with as little as a single glance.

Sasuke is very much willing to start with genjutsu. 5ks Sasuke completely paralyzed Cee with it from basically the start and seemingly tried to genjustu Ay right away as well. He also spammed it a lot in his previous keys (except for the Bee fight specifically because he was overly confident about his new power but once he got humbled he immediately pulled it out to neg Bee)

Sasuke isn't limited to just incapping Jinwoo. He can manipulate not just his senses but his mind as well. He could force Jinwoo to un-summon his army and either kill himself or surrender

Question: Does Genjutsu work against people without physical forms? I was looking at the layering page and saw this:

"Shinobi can typically break free from genjutsu by intentionally disrupting the flow of chakra[1] within their bodies."

Jinwoo doesn't really have a body so how would the chakra flow through him? If that's not a requirement, then how exactly does Genjutsu work? Does it directly affect incorporeal minds or does it require a brain to work?

 

[karo_senpaii]

Can Sasuke interact with souls in base?

Btw, Jinwoo one-shots armies of people who scale to the island level value. He probably one shots Sasuke as well. Not to mention his existence erasure and Regen neg stuff.

He also has hundreds of island level shadow soldiers who have higher-level Low-Godly which allows them to come back from being erased (as spiritual bodies). And then like 10,000,000 soldiers who all downscale from him.

In particular, Fangs can cast like 8 status effects simultaneously: blindness, pain inducement, disease, sleep, etc...

Has dragons that erase people with their breath.

What can Sasuke do to deal with such an overwhelming army? Especially considering many of them can just one shot him.

1. He can't interact in base.
2. Op didn't mention restricting his possibly so idk, dude is small country level +.
3. Sasuke resists all the status effects of fangs.

Tbh Sasuke especially this key just looks at jinwoo once and traps him under genjutsu and it's say goodbye

 

[DavidTPPM]

Question: Does Genjutsu work against people without physical forms?

It should given genjutsu uses chakra which is partly spiritual energy which has been shown affected souls in many many ways. (as far as I've heard someone is currently working on revising the chakra page to fully cover it but since it's so complex it's not really easy)

I was looking at the layering page and saw this:

"Shinobi can typically break free from genjutsu by intentionally disrupting the flow of chakra[1] within their bodies."

Jinwoo doesn't really have a body so how would the chakra flow through him?

"Body" doesn't strictly refer to a physical biological human body. The bijuu for example are made entirely out of nature energy and genjutsu can still affect them. Genjutsu can even rewrite edo tensei which is an ability that binds the soul of a dead person to a body made out of papers and controls their actions.

If that's not a requirement, then how exactly does Genjutsu work? Does it directly affect incorporeal minds or does it require a brain to work?

It's kind of complicated. The very basics of genjutsu do mention not only affecting the brain with chakra but specifically the cranial nerves but that's only really in reference to basic genjutsu.

Other more advanced genjutsu (like visual or sound genjustu) have been shown affecting even things like animals, insects, edo tensei bodies, bijuu, and in extreme cases even fate/reality itself.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Question: Does Genjutsu work against people without physical forms? I was looking at the layering page and saw this:

"Shinobi can typically break free from genjutsu by intentionally disrupting the flow of chakra[1] within their bodies."

Jinwoo doesn't really have a body so how would the chakra flow through him? If that's not a requirement, then how exactly does Genjutsu work? Does it directly affect incorporeal minds or does it require a brain to work?

Yes , genjutsu even has soul manipulation if you scroll further what you quoted.

And that's shinobi of way of breaking free. They use their chakra to take back control of their senses.

It doesn't require a brain as it works fine on edo tensei who are just souls so yeah it affects incorporeal minds

 

[karo_senpaii]

It should given genjutsu uses chakra which is partly spiritual energy which has been shown affected souls in many many ways. (as far as I've heard someone is currently working on revising the chakra page to fully cover it but since it's so complex it's not really easy)

"Body" doesn't strictly refer to a physical biological human body. The bijuu for example are made entirely out of nature energy and genjutsu can still affect them. Genjutsu can even rewrite edo tensei which is an ability that binds the soul of a dead person to a body made out of papers and controls their actions.

It's kind of complicated. The very basics of genjutsu do mention not only affecting the brain with chakra but specifically the cranial nerves but that's only really in reference to basic genjutsu.

Other more advanced genjutsu (like visual or sound genjustu) have been shown affecting even things like animals, insects, edo tensei bodies, bijuu, and in extreme cases even fate/reality itself.

I just remembered not just kotoakatsukami but Sasuke used genjutsu on Itachi when they both required casting on themselves against kabuto.

 

[TheTenno07]

changing by vote to sasuke

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Sakura's Husband FRA

 

[GodEarh206]

 

[GodEarh206]

I'm still continuing with Naruto in chapters 470+
too long, too lazy

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

itachi’s brother FRA

 

[GodEarh206]

itachi’s brother FRA

Itachi solos

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Bump

 

[That_moron2]

What does Sasuke do about Jinwoo simply erasing him from existence?

 

[GodEarh206]

What does Sasuke do about Jinwoo simply erasing him from existence?

Genjutsu

 

[That_moron2]

Genjutsu

He has to look into Jinwoo's eyes in the first place, which will be difficult considering he'll have to fight through low-godly regen soldiers who all stat gap him. Jinwoo won't bother to actually engage Sasuke in close-combat because of how much weaker he is

 

[Delusionaltx2]

He has to look into Jinwoo's eyes in the first place, which will be difficult considering he'll have to fight through low-godly regen soldiers who all stat gap him. Jinwoo won't bother to actually engage Sasuke in close-combat because of how much weaker he is

Now, idk about the novel (I've only read the manwha and watched the anime)

But doesn't SJW in character fight in the front lines and only ever lets his soldiers fight for him when fighting fodders?

Sasuke is only like 2.7x weaker, no?

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Also regarding the EE

Is it thought-based? Assuming he has minor info on Sasuke, he should have a basic idea of the Sharingan, which means he'd definitely know about the overpowered nature of Uchicha genjutsu, so it's definitely not like Sasuke can just incapacitate him immediately.

On the other hand, if Sasuke knows stuff about SJW, I think he'd probably either try to stop him from summoning shadow soldiers with flame control, wipe them out with Susanoo, or just blitz them with Chidori.

 

[That_moron2]

Sasuke is only like 2.7x weaker, no?

Jinwoo upscales that value by many one-shots. Even his shadow soldiers do as I understand it

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Jinwoo upscales that value by many one-shots. Even his shadow soldiers do as I understand it

hmm might vote SJW then

Since OP didn't specify the distance, then assuming SBA, SJW, and Sasuke are like 4KM apart, so Sasuke is never applying enough pressure to stop Jin Woo from summoning soldiers, which Jin Woo would definitely do immediately coming into the battle with minor knowledge + stack this with stealth and speed amps to dodge around Sasuke's line of sight. For example, I could see SJW standing behind the back of a shadow dragon at an angle where Sasuke can't look him in the eyes

At that point, the soldiers drop in and make quick work of bro while he just jumps in and uses speed amps to maneuver around him for added support


To top it all off SJW has class T TK on Sasuke's class G physicals so he'd eventually use it to break sasukes bigger susanoos

 

[That_moron2]

Since OP didn't specify the distance, then assuming SBA, SJW, and Sasuke are like 4KM apart, so Sasuke is never applying enough pressure to stop Jin Woo from summoning soldiers, which Jin Woo would definitely do immediately coming into the battle with minor knowledge + stack this with stealth and speed amps to dodge around Sasuke's line of sight. For example, I could see SJW standing behind the back of a shadow dragon at an angle where Sasuke can't look him in the eyes

He doesn't have prior knowledge here, but he summons them first thing in character anyway

 

[Delusionaltx2]

He doesn't have prior knowledge here, but he summons them first thing in character anyway

Sung Jin-Woo is at this Epilogue Key while Sasuke is in his Fourth Shinobi War key, specifically during his fight with Kabuto (it may change depending on how the fight goes). Both have minor information on the other.

He does actually, it's just minor but even then thats more than enough for him to understand the basic idea with genjutsu and the sharingan, he just won't know about the MS stuff

 

[That_moron2]

He does actually it's just minor but even then thats more than enough for him to understand the basic idea with genjutsu and the sharingan, he just won't know about the MS stuff

Yeah okay. If it wasn't clear before, I'm voting Jinwoo. There's no reason for him to lose unless he's totally stupid about it

 

[Phoenks]

Good call about the range and minor information.

Jinwoo would have his shadow soldiers occupying many kilometers of space. So Sasuke is going to have some trouble actually getting off the Genjutsu on him.

Jinwoo is also 7x faster than Sasuke's base and has the power to one-shot.