Sung jinwoo tier upgrade

[Dooyo]

no, higher than low 2-c is 2-c. oneshot multiple low 2-Cs just give you bigger scaling chain

Bigger scaling chain like he is on the higher end of the low 2C rating ? Instead of the baseline like the rest of his verse ?

 

[Vietthai96]

Bigger scaling chain like he is on the higher end of the low 2C rating ? Instead of the baseline like the rest of his verse ?

yeah kinda, this applies to every verse

 

[Rogue_Forge]

I just made a profile on my sandbox, how accurate is it (I only changed AP and Speed not abilities)

Rogue Forge/sandbox3

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Rogue_Forge]

I should probably give reasoning to the far higher though

 

[Vietthai96]

also, i want to ask, why itarim creating universe would scale to his physical stats and not just something he could do with hax?

Anyway, i'm going to sleep now, bye

 

[Dooyo]

also, i want to ask, why itarim creating universe would scale to his physical stats and not just something he could do with hax?

Anyway, i'm going to sleep now, bye

Because it was stated that Itarim could create and destroy universes at will, and he actually did in the final battle while clashing with Suho's Ragnarok sword, destroying the Universe he had created himself on the spot to trap him there.

 

[Dooyo]

I just made a profile on my sandbox, how accurate is it (I only changed AP and Speed not abilities)

Rogue Forge/sandbox3

vsbattles.fandom.com

You forgot to write after Epilogue, Ragnarok.

I will make a list of his new abilities from Ragnarok later.

For instance, time stop, he stopped time when Suho entered into a dungeon from his school from the first time in the real world

And a lot more

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Bro... They were putting tears into the actual universe (the only real Low 2-C structure) and thus causing dimensional breaks that allowed the previously spatially separated "universes" to collide and witness one another.

I just disagree with how the fight went.

There are 3 voids.

After the dimension is destroyed , there is a void (dimensional rift) , after the universe is destroyed there is a void (rift between two universes), and after the void is destroyed,there is another void.


So I think the fact it returned to the last void , proves the shockwaves were traveling to whole other itarims universes (even more so when jinwoo could be seen)

Which would just mean they were in the space that contains universes and therefore their clash spread enough to hit other universes.(for example it would be like in opm where they are in that place that contains the bubbles and their clash affected other universes) Can you @ ritsu to check his message wall to translate it? Cause their are two TL that mean vastly different things.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Bigger scaling chain like he is on the higher end of the low 2C rating ? Instead of the baseline like the rest of his verse ?

Low 2-C is one of those tiers that you can be thousands of times stronger than someone and still be Low 2-C without an "at least"

Assuming tier 2 Sung is accepted then he would just be above baseline.

As an example, Goku, who is 2-C, is like quadrillions of times into his tier but can't reach another tier, let alone another universe more.

 

[Rogue_Forge]

Low 2-C is one of those tiers that you can be thousands of times stronger than someone and still be Low 2-C without an "at least"

Assuming tier 2 Sung is accepted then he would just be above baseline.

As an example, Goku, who is 2-C, is like quadrillions of times into his tier but can't reach another tier, let alone another universe more.

I always wondered why Goku wasn't Multiverse level considering it only requires destroying over 1001 universes

 

[Rogue_Forge]

So sung jin-woo is just Universal+ no debating it? (as in no debating he's higher)

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I always wondered why Goku wasn't Multiverse level considering it only requires destroying over 1001 universes

because they only have 3 universes and scale to 6

multipliers aren't enough to bypass the whole unknown space and adding a universe is another infinity

tier 2 characters are stuck to whatever number of universes they have in verse

So sung jin-woo is just Universal+ no debating it? (as in no debating he's higher)

Pretty sure there is still a lot of debate to be had

 

[Rogue_Forge]

Pretty sure there is still a lot of debate to be had

The opposing side has done nothing but give the same reasoning for 2-C every time (the same reasoning which has been disproven every time)

 

[I'm_here_to_teach]

Not even close bro, the first one explicitly says he's not not traveling anywhere but looking at images or footage (depending on the translation)

The other feats explicitly states/shows characters traveling between dimensions

Straight says their tunneling a portal to reach their the following sentence which should hint it needs to be created and made to connect the points given more context given the scan presented it would be the case

 

[I'm_here_to_teach]

Pretty much agree with @Phoenks. Not only are the so-called "universes" (gates) much smaller than the normal universe, as we see in pretty much every gate, the way they are seemingly comparable with "planets" as the "numerous images of universes and planets", statement seems to indicate that they are also smaller.

That is not to mention how they all seemingly have a single timeline and time axis, meaning that they are not a space-time quanton, so the size would be irrelevant regardless.

But from what I am seeing, the proposal has many weaknesses, and the only supporting evidence is vague statements.

Question for you wouldnt this work as showing different timelines

He alone endured all suffering, erasing all traces of the monarchs and rulers from the world.

As a result, there are no Demons or Hunters in the new timeline.

Thomas André and other first state-powered hunters were no longer granted the power of the rulers.

We know their are still demons and rulers in the other "worlds"

I can send the scan just lmk

Which should show theirs a form of distinction inverse between earths universe and the others

 

[Rogue_Forge]

Question for you wouldnt this work as showing different timelines

He alone endured all suffering, erasing all traces of the monarchs and rulers from the world.

As a result, there are no Demons or Hunters in the new timeline.

Thomas André and other first state-powered hunters were no longer granted the power of the rulers.

We know their are still demons and rulers in the other "worlds"

I can send the scan just lmk

Which should show theirs a form of distinction inverse between earths universe and the others

We shouldn't have to let you know just send the scans bro

 

[I'm_here_to_teach]

We shouldn't have to let you know just send the scans bro

I was simply tryna see if its adequate or not
I was also on break at work making a imagur takes a little bit of time

 

[Phoenks]

I was simply tryna see if its adequate or not

Not adequate. "New Timeline" refers to the same timeline of the world. Its just "new" after the Chalice of Rebirth reset everything to 10 years ago and Sung Jinwoo altered the sequence of events. Not a separate continuum.

Again, explicitly disproves the universe being made of separate timelines because even the monster worlds and the gap between all dimensions were affected by this 10 year rewind.

 

[I'm_here_to_teach]

Not adequate. "New Timeline" refers to the same timeline of the world. Its just "new" after the Chalice of Rebirth reset everything to 10 years ago and Sung Jinwoo altered the sequence of events. Not a separate continuum.

Again, explicitly disproves the universe being made of separate timelines because even the monster worlds and the gap between all dimensions were affected by this 10 year rewind.

Not tryna argue a new timeline but a distinict between earths and the others

As they make the notation demons and hunters aren't in this one

Yet we know demons are still in time via the dimensional gap /demons realm

Wouldnt it be just as equally possible the chalice just manipulates all temporal events from all timelines as the foundation?

As we know absolute being already made beings who can manipulate and destroy all existing concepts through antares

 

[Phoenks]

Not tryna argue a new timeline but a distinict between earths and the others

As they make the notation demons and hunters aren't in this one

Yet we know demons are still in time via the dimensional gap /demons realm

Wouldnt it be just as equally possible the chalice just manipulates all temporal events from all timelines as the foundation?

As we know absolute being already made beings who can manipulate and destroy all existing concepts through antares

It isn't distinct. There's not evidence it is distinct. They are just saying there is no demons / monarchs / rulers on Earth in this new timeline because Jinwoo killed them.

Yes, they are still within time, but in a different space.

No it isn't equally possible because you guys have not proved separate times yet.

 

[I'm_here_to_teach]

It isn't distinct. There's not evidence it is distinct. They are just saying there is no demons / monarchs / rulers on Earth in this new timeline because Jinwoo killed them.

Yes, they are still within time, but in a different space.

No it isn't equally possible because you guys have not proved separate times yet.

Fair enough I won't badger anymore tonight I personally would have argued something else entiretly with a different thread

 

[Dooyo]

It isn't distinct. There's not evidence it is distinct. They are just saying there is no demons / monarchs / rulers on Earth in this new timeline because Jinwoo killed them.

Yes, they are still within time, but in a different space.

No it isn't equally possible because you guys have not proved separate times yet.

There are also the Sea of afterlife which is a spiritual Universe where time doesn't exist. What about that ?

 

[Rogue_Forge]

There are also the Sea of afterlife which is a spiritual Universe where time doesn't exist. What about that ?

Lets say its a separate universe, that universe would be a Universe level structure due to having no time, therefor adding it to Universal+ would not upgrade it at all

 

[Dooyo]

Lets say its a separate universe, that universe would be a Universe level structure due to having no time, therefor adding it to Universal+ would not upgrade it at all

No time in the sense that it transcends space time aka their Universe

 

[Rogue_Forge]

No time in the sense that it transcends space time aka their Universe

Do you have a statement that says it transends space-time specifically, because that would bring it to 5-D (Low Complex Multiverse level) due to being higher dimensionally than a 4-D Universe which I doubt

Literally always show scans don't just state it without showing scans off the bat

 

[Dooyo]

Do you have a statement that says it transends space-time specifically, because that would bring it to 5-D (Low Complex Multiverse level) due to being higher dimensionally than a 4-D Universe which I doubt

Literally always show scans don't just state it without showing scans off the bat

Well, to be fair, there isn't a statement that it transcends space time but that the Universe in comparison to it, it's like a needle throw to the desert which is basically insignificant.

The World Tree is universal sized in the cosmology of SL.

The world tree is also omnipresent throughout the universe, the universe being infinite in size.

The Korean word as you see is literally "infinite" which is how the Universe is portrayed in Ragnarok written by Daul, not OG SL Chugong.

And that the World Tree is but the size of a Needle in the grand nature of the Abyss.

Said Abyss being actually Jinwoo true essence and self, or his power for short.

 

[I'm_here_to_teach]

Well, to be fair, there isn't a statement that it transcends space time but that the Universe in comparison to it, it's like a needle throw to the desert which is basically insignificant.

The World Tree is universal sized in the cosmology of SL.

The world tree is also omnipresent throughout the universe, the universe being infinite in size.

The Korean word as you see is literally "infinite" which is how the Universe is portrayed in Ragnarok written by Daul, not OG SL Chugong.

And that the World Tree is but the size of a Needle in the grand nature of the Abyss.

Said Abyss being actually Jinwoo true essence and self, or his power for short.

Its not his true essence/self his true essence/self is true death where everything returns back to nothingness as even the abyss fades/melts/returns/erases into true death that being said he can destroy/return everything hidden within the abyss in this case the true abyss

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Do you have a statement that says it transends space-time specifically, because that would bring it to 5-D (Low Complex Multiverse level) due to being higher dimensionally than a 4-D Universe which I doubt

Literally always show scans don't just state it without showing scans off the bat

Where does our wiki system states Transcending Space-time = 5D?

 

[SweetDao]

Well, to be fair, there isn't a statement that it transcends space time but that the Universe in comparison to it, it's like a needle throw to the desert which is basically insignificant.

No. It's small, but still finitely small. Even if you assume that the elements of comparison are both infinite.

 

[Dooyo]

No. It's small, but still finitely small. Even if you assume that the elements of comparison are both infinite.

But how ? Elaborate how something stated to be infinite is finite to you ?

 

[SweetDao]

But how ? Elaborate how something stated to be infinite is finite to you ?

At no point does it say that it is finite compared to the void. It just says that finding a single thing in an ocean of darkness is hard. It's not that deep.

 

[Qawsedf234]

yeah I disagree with backscaling. new author, new continuity, timeskip, and the feats are so much higher it practically ain't the same characters

I'm with you here. A ragnarok specific key would be better and overall mlre honest to the setting in my view.

 

[FinePoint]

I'm with you here. A ragnarok specific key would be better and overall mlre honest to the setting in my view.

I still agree with this, regardless of technicalities.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

No. It's small, but still finitely small. Even if you assume that the elements of comparison are both infinite.

Nah. It is stated that you could wander forever without finding it. Because even the needle in a desert isn’t a good comparison due to the size correlation between a desert and the sea being incomparable

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

I still agree with this, regardless of technicalities.

I'm with you here. A ragnarok specific key would be better and overall mlre honest to the setting in my view.

I don’t disagree with a key,there will be a ragnorock key either way.

It’s just that it makes zero sense for this to literally be on the profile.yet still not scale him to gods creation.

Yet again, the original series narratively outscales ragnorock,yet somehow ragnorock scales higher even though people grew weaker.


Og Monarchs= island level> ragnorock = uni

This just logically makes no sense unless you disallow scaling between them and just ignore the backstory between them.

 

[Dooyo]

At no point does it say that it is finite compared to the void. It just says that finding a single thing in an ocean of darkness is hard. It's not that deep.

But that thing is Universe sized tree and it's nothing basically compared to the Abyss

 

[Phoenks]

It’s just that it makes zero sense for this to literally be on the profile.yet still not scale him to gods creation.

I think the original narrative makes it clear this is referring to beings created by god like the other Monarchs. Not literally everything to the point of saying he can erase the universe and stuff. For the OG series, it is just further evidence that he scales above everyone else.

Now, I could agree that if you pair those statements with what is showcased at the end of Ragnarok, you could get Sung Jin Woo to more cosmic levels of power... But that stuff is simply not present at all in the original. And with it being after a time skip, in a sequel series written by another author, I simply don't agree with then using that context to retroactively buff everything before that.

Like you are basically saying every single monarch should be universal since their introduction in the OG... That scaling just doesn't make sense there.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

I think the original narrative makes it clear this is referring to beings created by god like the other Monarchs. Not literally everything to the point of saying he can erase the universe and stuff. For the OG series, it is just further evidence that he scales above everyone else.

No it doesn’t you compare it to the many other statements saying monarchs are born for the purpose of destroying the world, and then the literal statement of it being in reference to ALL of existence which jinwoo scales to . It is obviously referring to everything.

Now, I could agree that if you pair those statements with what is showcased at the end of Ragnarok, you could get Sung Jin Woo to more cosmic levels of power... But that stuff is simply not present at all in the original. And with it being after a time skip, in a sequel series written by another author, I simply don't agree with then using that context to retroactively buff everything before that.

It very clearly is present , and idk why the author being different matters nor the timeskip, you would still disagree even with the scan of shaking dimensions .

When 1.) the author directly said he didn’t do anything to harm the original

And 2.) PEOPLE are WEAKER during the timeskip. Only one who grew stronger was jinwoo,but og series jinwoo still outscales ragnorock Antares due to ragnorock Antares losing the source of his powers.so we can already tell it isn’t a tier jump between the two series.

I don’t see why you are disallowing even backstories such as how the absolute being hid his power.

Like you are basically saying every single monarch should be universal since their introduction in the OG... That scaling just doesn't make sense there.

That isn’t what I am saying.i don’t think that the monarchs and rulers on earth are universal.i am saying that as long as they are not purposely nerfing themselves with human baggage, they would have the power they are stated to have. Would just be like this

One key : nerfed

Another key: prime power.

The thread for ragnorock being able to be used with context was LITERALLY accepted.

So using both ragnorock and original should also be accepted,

For example,

Eternal sleep disease. In og it tells you people die from it,

In ragnorock it tells you that people affected by it have their souls killed.

So with that extra context showing on how they die,and based on the thread,it should be allowed for original series to have an aura that kills the soul.

Similarly we have jinwoos power.

Which is sourced from world of nothingness in the original series

And then ragnorock which tells you more about jinwoos power over void

Which should also be able to be used because it is a backstory and not power he gained after the timeskip.

I don’t see the reason to pick and choose what can and cannot be used when it is accepted as canon already.


If you agree that with ragnorocks context he would scale, and ragnorock is accepted as canon,as well as the fact that the EXPLANATION ragnorock gives doesn’t contradict the main series, then you are disagreeing purely based on the fact that since the original series only takes place while they are nerfed , the explanation on why and how much they are nerfed is cast aside.

I just genuinely don’t understand how a thread can be accepted and yet it is still not allowed to be used

 

[KaramcaS]

Speak with respect

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Speak with respect

I don’t believe i have said anything in that comment that is disrespectful