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Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Discussion Thread 20

Grabbing_dragon said:
vsbattles.com

Veldanava's God Key Deletion / God Profile Creation (Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken)

Introduction Profile Seperation But before that, Ivarage remembered. When it gained emotions, intelligence rapidly developed alongside them. With them, it understood it'd been discarded. It was lonely. It was frustrated. That was unforgivable. There was once a time where it was the...
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No, it wouldn’t. Is there evidence that attributes are the very essence of space, its whatness, as in what makes space what it is?
Click to expand...
Great Spirits are Type 1 concepts and represent the very attributes that make up the world, which has already been accepted. So, I don't think we need to prove anything further, since a concept is, by definition, the essence of what it represents.


the thread itself is about type 1 Concept of Space.
 
MeiouHades said:
You gotta be kidding
Click to expand...
I'm not the one to tell you what to do or not do, okay?
But I suggest we end this discussion for now until an actual CRT is made about the things they want.
Once a CRT is post, we can continue the conversation there.

Not with anger, let's talk calmly and not throw logic out the window.

I'm sorry for interrupting your conversation; I just really wanted to say this.

Powerscaling is supposed to be a form of entertainment, something to take our minds off the stresses of real life, not something that messes with our peace of mind.
 
eh, according to what I have noticed, Veldanava told guy
  1. “When I was born, all that existed was my will.”
    • This implies there was nothing external — no space, no time, no separate entities. Everything was a singularity of his own will. That is a classic description of an atemporal, aspatial origin state.
  2. “It was complete, fully, not a piece missing to it—a flawless existence, where all was one and one was all.”
    • “All was one” means there was no separation of objects or places (no spatial differentiation).
    • “One was all” implies there was no progression or change (no temporal flow).
  3. “I was the only thing in the world.”
    • This further reinforces that there was no other place, person, or moment outside of him.
    • If he was the only existence, then the concepts of location or timeline didn’t apply.
  4. He deliberately gave up omnipotence
    • By “casting away his own omnipotence,” Veldanava essentially introduced limits, creating diversity, separation, and change — i.e., space and time — to make existence interesting.
Click to expand...
 
Hayato5652 said:
I'm not the one to tell you what to do or not do, okay?
But I suggest we end this discussion for now until an actual CRT is made about the things they want.
Once a CRT is post, we can continue the conversation there.

Not with anger, let's talk calmly and not throw logic out the window.

I'm sorry for interrupting your conversation; I just really wanted to say this.

Powerscaling is supposed to be a form of entertainment, something to take our minds off the stresses of real life, not something that messes with our peace of mind.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm not the one who needs to here this lol. There's a clear aggressor here and it ain't me, tell that to him. He's only gonna keep creating problems for y'all in the future
 
Robo432343 said:
But trinity seven verse didn’t need this much detail
Click to expand...
Because in Trinity Seven, concepts mean essence, and the archetypes of all things were shown to be what make things what they are. I didn’t need to, because I already have a formless, spaceless, and timeless realm where all spacetime has no differentiation in itself, therefore, 1A.
Mizuki67 said:
attributes are the very essence of whatever they represent
Click to expand...
AstraphelNoctis4 said:
Great Spirits are Type 1 concepts and represent the very attributes that make up the world, which has already been accepted. So, I don't think we need to prove anything further, since a concept is, by definition, the essence of what it represents.


the thread itself is about type 1 Concept of Space.
Click to expand...
Nope, concepts don’t mean essence. There needs to be proof that concepts are the very essence of things they govern . here
 
Robo432343 said:
so where did ultima actually say that
show where he said "There needs to be proof that concepts are the very essence of things they govern"
🗿
Click to expand...
if you read his comments you will understand ,
vsbattles.com

Concept type 1 are (low-)Outerversal level

In new tiering system outerversal level basically are meta level, that trully superior from all level of reality that cannot getting reached no matter how far you stacted the reality it self Soo what about Concept type 1?? These concept are fully independent from all reality and are the source...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
vsbattles.com

Concept type 1 are (low-)Outerversal level

In new tiering system outerversal level basically are meta level, that trully superior from all level of reality that cannot getting reached no matter how far you stacted the reality it self Soo what about Concept type 1?? These concept are fully independent from all reality and are the source...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
MeiouHades said:
Yeah, I'm not the one who needs to here this lol. There's a clear aggressor here and it ain't me, tell that to him. He's only gonna keep creating problems for y'all in the future
Click to expand...
Yeah, I read his posts, and his tone toward you was really harsh.
But on the other hand, I tried putting myself in the shoes of someone who’s a fan of Tensura, honestly, let’s not go too far.

If DB were downgrade from 1-C or 2-C to much lower tiers, I’d be really pissed too.
I might even act worse than CodeCCLL.
Anyway... I think you should wait until an actual CRT is made.

And thank you both for not escalating the argument.
 
Grabbing_dragon said:
Nope, concepts don’t mean essence. There needs to be proof that concepts are the very essence of things they govern . here
Click to expand...
What?
Concepts aren't essences. True but...what?In philosophy, essence is the set of properties without which a thing would not be what it is.
that idea alone makes a type 1 concept
A concept is the mental or formal definition of that essence.
Essence = the fundamental nature of something, without which it would not be that thing.
Great Spirits are the purest, most original form of natural phenomena. That’s essence.

They are the “attributes” and “laws” that govern reality. That’s the defining structure — the essence of how the world operates.

They’re described as conceptual existences — meaning their form is conceptual, but their role is essential.
 
Grabbing_dragon said:
Because in Trinity Seven, concepts mean essence, and the archetypes of all things were shown to be what make things what they are. I didn’t need to, because I already have a formless, spaceless, and timeless realm where all spacetime has no differentiation in itself, therefore, 1A.


Nope, concepts don’t mean essence. There needs to be proof that concepts are the very essence of things they govern . here
Click to expand...
So, do we prove them if we can show that the attribute in question is the fundamental truth or idea of what it defines? Is that enough?

If not, then we can prove that each attribute is the cause of the creation of the thing it governs, and that manipulating or destroying those attributes also affects their respective phenomena, this should be enough.
 
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Grabbing_dragon said:
That falls into this category, so it doesn’t qualify. It’s more like everything didn’t have differentiation at the start , now it has them .
Click to expand...
Because he willed it to be?, mind you he technically still exist, as hinted several times not like he was one and then boom be became the multiverse
 
a0c6206ea63e02d2c2ab3264acebd6f3.jpg


Without Astral scaling Tensura won't be the same anymoa. It's time to start scaling MGK and Bleach.
 
Robo432343 said:
i used to really like mgk but after a while i realized its just generic overpowered mc fights people with him winning every single time
Click to expand...
Speaking from the perspective of a former hater myself, I respectfully disagree (as I have not used my time to analyze up to the corners of this series for bit of 2 nearing 3 years aside from merely power for nothing). However, with series like these I do respect what you may think.
 
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Mizuki67 said:
What?
Concepts aren't essences. True but...what?In philosophy, essence is the set of properties without which a thing would not be what it is.
that idea alone makes a type 1 concept
A concept is the mental or formal definition of that essence.
Essence = the fundamental nature of something, without which it would not be that thing.
Great Spirits are the purest, most original form of natural phenomena. That’s essence.

They are the “attributes” and “laws” that govern reality. That’s the defining structure — the essence of how the world operates.

They’re described as conceptual existences — meaning their form is conceptual, but their role is essential.
Click to expand...
Since I have nothing to say back on the "purest, most original form" part, I think low 1A for the Great Spirit of Space can work with the current evidence.
AstraphelNoctis4 said:
So, do we prove them if we can show that the attribute in question is the fundamental truth or idea of what it defines? Is that enough?

If not, then we can prove that each attribute is the cause of the creation of the thing it governs, and that manipulating or destroying those attributes also affects their respective phenomena, this should be enough.
Click to expand...
Whatness/essence does not work like that. The difference between something that is the origin and source of something is existence and whatness of something. The former, if the source is destroyed, what it governs will just cease to exist, and the latter, the thing will cease to exist as itself.
Mizuki67 said:
Because he willed it to be?, mind you he technically still exist, as hinted several times not like he was one and then boom be became the multiverse
Click to expand...
That would not be enough. There needs to be more evidence, like Arceus, for example. It does not only have feats that it encompasses everything and all things become one, but also a direct statement that space and time become one within itself. The same for Trinity Seven, it is not just that everything becomes one, but that space and time itself cause to exist and become one when they return to it, That is why Ultima agreed with them having superiority over space itself differentiations in a way that matters.
 
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The_golden_and_silver_house94 said:
The universe within the subspace have different temporal axis,are not bound by causality and time is not synchronized between them in such can you explain why the flow of time within the subspace wouldn't be an independent time axis?
Click to expand...
Having different causality doesn't prove anything you need to prove the said time axis having past present and future in literal statement/feats. Not just some assumptions.
 
Grabbing_dragon said:
Since I have nothing to say back on the "purest, most original form" part, I think low 1A for the Great Spirit of Space can work with the current evidence.

Whatness/essence does not work like that. The difference between something that is the origin and source of something is existence and whatness of something. The former, if the source is destroyed, what it governs will just cease to exist, and the latter, the thing will cause it to exist as itself.

That would not be enough. There needs to be more evidence, like Arceus, for example. It does not only have that it encompasses everything and all things become one, but also a direct statement that space and time become one within itself. The same for Trinity Seven, it is not just that everything becomes one, but that space and time itself cause to exist and become one. That is why Ultima agreed with them having superiority over space itself, differentiations in a way that matters.
Click to expand...
Got it, but it seems like it no longer needs to be proven.
 
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MeiouHades said:
Anyway, a word of advice from me to all you Tensura fans if you really want Low 1-C. There's this little detail in Astral's blog:

whereas Chloe can time travel not just inside the same World-Line but also to different World-Lines purely due to her Time Travel ability<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...nSura_Cosmology_Explanation_(WN)#cite_note-17"><span>[</span>7<span>]</span></a>, in other words, travelling in the Dimension's time (5-D).

I even pointed it out in the thread. If you can elaborate more on this, then believe it or not this is almost slam dunk evidence for a different axis of time.
Click to expand...
That's just limitations of Chloe's abilities nothing has to do with extra dimensions. (This is the case where supporters claim something where scan/context says something else)
 
Grabbing_dragon said:
The former, if the source is destroyed, what it governs will just cease to exist, and the latter, the thing will cause it to exist as itself.
Click to expand...
Do you mean the difference between when the concept of space is destroyed, space, which is the object of the concept of space, cease to exists, and when the concept of space is destroyed, the object that was the object of the concept of space still exists, but it is not longer an object of the concept of space?
 
Grabbing_dragon said:
Since I have nothing to say back on the "purest, most original form" part, I think low 1A for the Great Spirit of Space can work with the current evidence.
Click to expand...
After thinking a bit more, I don’t think that proves something is the whatness (the quality that makes something what it is). The purest, most original form part proves there are the archetype/prototype.
 
CodeCCLL said:
Do you mean the difference between when the concept of space is destroyed, space, which is the object of the concept of space, cease to exists, and when the concept of space is destroyed, the object that was the object of the concept of space still exists, but it can not longer "be defined as 'space'".
Click to expand...
seems like yes
 
Grabbing_dragon said:
Since I have nothing to say back on the "purest, most original form" part, I think low 1A for the Great Spirit of Space can work with the current evidence.
Click to expand...
Great spirit of time is unbound by space, what about that?, also why is the system making things difficult lol, I know Veldanava isn't unchanging but he's definitely permanent, he alone was all that there was. No cause/effect, no time, no space, encompassing both as well, it also said his "consciousness" which in tensura is your mental projection of self, also said some shii like dreamlike feeling, so why isn't this still 1-A if GS of Space and time are both Low 1-A
 
CodeCCLL said:
Do you mean the difference between when the concept of space is destroyed, space, which is the object of the concept of space, cease to exists, and when the concept of space is destroyed, the object that was the object of the concept of space still exists, but it is not longer an object of the concept of space?
Click to expand...
Yes, a thing can have more than one quality/universal governing it.
 
Mizuki67 said:
Great spirit of time is unbound by space, what about that?, also why is the system making things difficult lol, I know Veldanava isn't unchanging but he's definitely permanent, he alone was all that there was. No cause/effect, no time, no space, encompassing both as well, it also said his "consciousness" which in tensura is your mental projection of self, also said some shii like dreamlike feeling, so why isn't this still 1-A if GS of Space and time are both Low 1-A
Click to expand...
Once we get the Creation Flashback, we will get Tier 0+
 
Grabbing_dragon said:
After thinking a bit more, I don’t think that proves something is the whatness (the quality that makes something what it is). The purest, most original form part proves there are the archetype/prototype.
Click to expand...
Isn’t a concept that’s described as the purest and most original state of what it defines essentially the essence of that thing?

Since such a concept is portrayed as the foundational truth or origin of what it represents, wouldn’t that qualify it as the defining principle or essence , the very thing that makes the phenomenon what it is?
 
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Mizuki67 said:
Great spirit of time is unbound by space, what about that?, also why is the system making things difficult lol, I know Veldanava isn't unchanging but he's definitely permanent, he alone was all that there was. No cause/effect, no time, no space, encompassing both as well, it also said his "consciousness" which in tensura is your mental projection of self, also said some shii like dreamlike feeling, so why isn't this still 1-A if GS of Space and time are both Low 1-A
Click to expand...
How is Veldanava encompassing space and time when they didn’t exist at the beginning, when he was alone in the world? 😭😭 And yeah, things are difficult since it requires certain feats.
AstraphelNoctis4 said:
Isn’t a concept that’s described as the purest and most original state of what it defines essentially the conceptual essence of that thing?

Since such a concept is portrayed as the foundational truth or origin of what it represents, wouldn’t that qualify it as the defining principle or essence , the very thing that makes the phenomenon what it is?
Click to expand...
The purest and most original state/form means the earliest, original example of something so a prototype. while essence, here is an exemple from Platonic forms.
These Forms are the essences of various objects: they are that without which a thing would not be the kind of thing it is. For example, there are countless tables in the world but the Form of tableness is at the core; it is the essence of all of them
 
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