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Bringing Back Irrelevant Speed

Phoenks

Phoenks

FC/OC VS Battles
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For those unfamiliar with the concept, "Irrelevant" was a speed rating above Immeasurable that was reserved for characters who completely transcended space and time, rather than just being unbound by the speed formula. This was its previous definition, for reference (From 2022):

“Irrelevant (Characters beyond, and qualitatively superior to, the concepts of dimensions of time and space themselves. Meaning: Tier 1-A and above.)”
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Irrelevant speed was eventually removed from VSBW (after an extremely long debate you can read through here) because the previous tiering system didn't acknowledge that characters could truly be beyond the concepts of space and time. Everything, including Tier 0 characters, were still rated according to some cardinality of dimensional existence (starting at the Mahlo cardinal). Thus, there was nothing that could ever fulfill the original definition of Irrelevant speed on the wiki. Since the speed of everything was ultimately still quantifiable through the amount of temporal dimensions they could bypass.
  • Ultima briefly mentions this here, where he states that in the previous system, aspatialtemporal characters (referring to what would be 1-A characters in our current system) were not inherently superior to spatialtemporal ones, thus irrelevant speed no longer made sense.

However, with the transition to this new tiering system and the introduction of qualitative superiority/BDE Type 3., that is no longer the case. We now accept that characters can be fully transcendent to those concepts.

As such, I am proposing that we re-introduce irrelevant speed. Or, at least a new speed tier above Immeasurable, reserved for characters who are not only not able to be measured by the standard speed formula, but who transcend its foundations entirely.

In the past, Ultima suggested this to be the new Irrelevant description, so I'll start with that as my basic proposal.

Irrelevant: Characters that abide by no notions of space and time whatsoever, and move unbound by any point in either. This is contrasted with Immeasurable characters, who simply move through time as if it were a spatial dimension, or surpass the flow of time of a lower reality while still abiding by their own notion of time.
Click to expand...

After all, I believe this was meant to be a part of this big revision (He has even agreed with me that it should be so). But since it doesn't seem like Ultima coming back any time soon, I decided to take matters into my own hands. Though, I will still be using some public posts from Ultima to support my own statements, since I think he is quite good at outlining these things.

Why is Irrelevant above Immeasurable speed?

Being able to move beyond the notions of space and time means that your speed is such that it is unbound by any point or axis that an Immeasurable speed character has access to. You're always able to exit outside the range that they're capable of ever interacting with.

We currently accept that characters can have layers of Immeasurable speed scaling to the number of higher-temporal dimensions they're able to move across. This can go up to as many layers as there are possible dimensions. So, while their movement is immeasurable going by the standard speed formula, it is still quantifiable within the bounds of dimensionality on this wiki.

This is not the case for 1-A beings and those who can move through 1-A-sized realms. A character who can move across a Low 1-A amount of temporal dimensions still wouldn't be able to go anywhere relative to a structure or character that is 1-A in scope. For the same reason that a character can’t ever reach a 1-A state of existence no matter how far they extend themselves into dimensional hierarchies. The quality of such realms and beings is such that the things below are effectively nonexistent in comparison to them.

Thus, if a character with quantifiable speed was to ever actually get anywhere relative to a 1-A thing, it would immediately disprove that thing being 1-A in the first place, since it would quantify its scale. Meanwhile, a 1-A character can move through that level of existence with no issue. It’s an entirely different level of speed.

Ultima has also elaborated on why this rating would be distinctly above immeasurable in his posts here, here, and here.

"The notion of speed at all is already predicated on there being some idea of space, since you'd require some manner of "distance" to move across (Whether that be a temporal equivalent of it or not). If a character's actions ignore/bypass/whatever the idea of a direction entirely, then they are by extension ignoring the concept of speed as well, which is then where the name would come from, "Irrelevant."
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This obviously references the fact that Immeasurable speed characters would still be bound to spatial and temporal "distance" that they move across, while Irrelevant speed characters would ignore said concepts entirely.

"A character who perceives a spacetime as a purely spatial object they can interact with at any point would still have an existence in lower dimensions, with the only difference being that they have extension on another axis from which different points in time are physically accessible. But regardless none of that process actually applies to you if you are a being whose existence has no basis in any point in time or space to begin with."
Click to expand...

Again, referencing that Immeasurable speed and higher-dimensional characters are still bound by spatial-temporal coordinates. And regardless of how many axes of said coordinates you're able to access, it's still not the same as an existence who has no relativity to space and time. (1-A BDE Type 3)

Why is this an important distinction to make?

Currently 1-A speed scaling is a bit of a mess. There are a lot of profiles that treat 1-As as being way slower than they should be treated. People don't seem to realize that just being 1-A automatically grants you a level of speed that is beyond all levels of immeasurable speed by default. Adding this rating would greatly simplify scaling across profiles and make things way more consistent.

I also feel it is a bit weird to have anyone who moves beyond the speed formula be labelled the same tier as characters who transcend space-time entirely. They’re on completely different levels. It would be like if both Low 1-A and 1-A characters occupied the same tier. Like sure, they’re both beyond the speed formula (in the same way Low 1-A and 1-A are beyond space-time), but in very distinct ways.

There’s also the fact that this was already deemed an important enough distinction in the past, and it was literally only removed because at the time we didn’t treat 1-A things as being superior to space-time in the way we do now.

Who gets this rating?

It would really be the same as “irrelevant” was before. Any 1-A (or above) character who has qualitative BDE Type 3 would qualify for it by default.

Additionally, any character who is able to move across 1-A realms or compete with BDE characters could potentially qualify. However, in the majority of cases, I do not think any character who is not 1-A physically can scale to this rating in physical speeds. Since something limited to quantitative existence being able to traverse a 1-A structure or compete with a 1-A character in speed could disprove that realm/character being qualitatively superior to quantitative realms/characters. Basically in the same way that a 3-D character being able to physically destroy parts of a 1-A realm or harm a 1-A character would be an anti-feat for the 1-A.

Though, if they have some kind of power/ability that has a 1-A source, they could perhaps still manifest that level of speed through said ability. Similarly to how it already works for AP.

Situations requiring more nuance can probably be discussed below. Though, as with everything, it'll likely be case-by-case.



ALSO! Despite what this thread is called, instead of calling this tier of speed “Irrelevant,” I believe it should actually be called “Inaccessible.” Referencing how this tier of speed is effectively inaccessible to the quantifiable ratings.

I am aware that name goes by a very different meaning in other spaces (0 distance movement), but VSBW is its own sphere anyways. I don’t think we should let that influence what we do. If we add this back, it’s likely others will start adopting this definition regardless.

I’m open to other names, though. If anyone manages to come up with one. “Irrelevant” makes it sound like the rating isn’t notable for these characters whatsoever, when that isn’t really the case.

Staff Votes​

Agree with bringing back a higher speed tier for 1-As: (5) @Qawsedf234, @ActuallySpaceMan42, @FinePoint, @SomebodyData, @Reiner04

Disagree: (1) @DontTalkDT

Uncertain: (1) @DarkDragonMedeus

  • Current Agreed Upon Name: Transcendent
 
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While I do agree with the speed rating, I think this section
Phoenks said:
Additionally, any character who is able to move across 1-A realms or compete with BDE characters could potentially qualify. However, in the majority of cases, I do not think any character who is not 1-A physically can scale to this rating in physical speeds. Since something limited to quantitative existence being able to traverse a 1-A structure or compete with a 1-A character in speed could disprove that realm/character being qualitatively superior to quantitative realms/characters. Basically in the same way that a 3-D character being able to physically destroy parts of a 1-A realm or harm a 1-A character would be an anti-feat for the 1-A.
Click to expand...
Should be noted somewhere on the speed section itself (such as an additional explanation like Timeless Voids). There is a decent swath of 1-A characters who would not be included for this rating, and this should be considered in CRTs addressing the speed.
Phoenks said:
I’m open to other names, though. If anyone manages to come up with one. “Irrelevant” makes it sound like the rating isn’t notable for these characters whatsoever, when that isn’t really the case.
Click to expand...
My ideas:
  • Immaterial Speed
  • Inapplicable Speed
  • Transcendent speed <- May be to on the nose though
 
Thing is, while characters beyond spatiotemporal notions exist now, they now can't be said to have a speed-like superior relationship to other characters.
A character that is unbound by all notions of spacetime doesn't automatically have the ability to act faster than a character that isn't. Because "faster" implies a spatiotemporal relationship.
Neither can we establish any other kind of speed-like notion. E.g. if you have a character that is beyond all notions of spacetime, it doesn't mean they can act before characters who aren't. Acting "first" would be a temporal matter, which the character shouldn't engage in if they are beyond spacetime altogether.

So what we are talking about is the lack of a speed value, not a superior speed value.
When interacting with spatiotemporal things these interactions would still have a spatiotemporal nature, though, as they would affect things that have a time and location. As such even a character beyond time and dimensions can still have a regular speed value for those purposes. However, that value would be one of the regular speed values (often times Immeasurable due to being able to see time like a spatial dimension).


So, long story short, I think either this shouldn't be a speed rating, due to not being a speed, or it should be a symbolic speed rating to denote a lack of speed, which is explicitely stated to not be superior (or inferior) to other speed ratings due to the complete lack of any comparability.
 
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DontTalkDT said:
Thing is, while characters beyond spatiotemporal notions exist now, they still can't be said to have a speed-like superior relationship to other characters.
A character that is unbound by all notions of spacetime doesn't automatically have the ability to act faster than a character that isn't. Because "faster" implies a spatiotemporal relationship.
Click to expand...
This logic doesn't work under the current tiering system, since it allows meta-spaces to exist.

You can effectively have a plane of existence whose size is qualitatively superior to material realms, and thus, crossing such a plane would both naturally and necessarily make your exhibited "speed" superior to any movement within said material realms.

I also don't get that last sentence. Being "faster" than a spatiotemporal character is really no different than being "stronger" than one, which we already accept. Thus, I don't see why that logic applies whatsoever. You can transcend the limitations of spatiotemporal entities in terms of potency in the same way you can for movement.

The "relationship" implied is one that, is in of itself, a system that operates on a higher-level than the systems of distance and time below it. So there's nothing about that which suddenly disproves this speed from existing.

Edit: What I mean to say is that 1-A meta-realms can have there own concepts/relationships between space, time, and causality which are ontologically superior and more real than ours. Their laws are relative to their plane of reality.
DontTalkDT said:
So what we are talking about is the lack of a speed value, not a superior speed value.
Click to expand...
It's not a lack of a speed value, though—since characters who operate beyond space-time can blatantly be observed to "move" in ways that are similarly superior to space and time.

DontTalkDT said:
When interacting with spatiotemporal things these interactions would still have a spatiotemporal character, though, as they would affect things that have a time and location. As such even a character beyond time and dimensions can still have a regular speed value for those purposes. However, that value would be one of the regular speed value (often times Immeasurable).
Click to expand...
This is no different from how a 1-A character can project an avatar with more limited physical properties into the material world. Or simply not display those properties while existing within them. I don't see the argument there.
 
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DontTalkDT said:
Thing is, while characters beyond spatiotemporal notions exist now, they now can't be said to have a speed-like superior relationship to other characters.
A character that is unbound by all notions of spacetime doesn't automatically have the ability to act faster than a character that isn't. Because "faster" implies a spatiotemporal relationship.
Neither can we establish any other kind of speed-like notion. E.g. if you have a character that is beyond all notions of spacetime, it doesn't mean they can act before characters who aren't. Acting "first" would be a temporal matter, which the character shouldn't engage in if they are beyond spacetime altogether.

So what we are talking about is the lack of a speed value, not a superior speed value.
When interacting with spatiotemporal things these interactions would still have a spatiotemporal nature, though, as they would affect things that have a time and location. As such even a character beyond time and dimensions can still have a regular speed value for those purposes. However, that value would be one of the regular speed values (often times Immeasurable due to being able to see time like a spatial dimension).


So, long story short, I think either this shouldn't be a speed rating, due to not being a speed, or it should be a symbolic speed rating to denote a lack of speed, which is explicitely stated to not be superior (or inferior) to other speed ratings due to the complete lack of any comparability.
Click to expand...
This seems to touch on a form of Acausality, in a sense. We accept that Acausality Type 5 entities are still capable of movement and interaction, but not within the framework of causality as we understand it. The causality that operates within time and space is effectively unreal to them. Yet, they still act and move, which implies they're operating within a higher or more 'real' form of causality, perhaps a kind of time that is more real than our conventional notion of time.

That would mean their movement isn't just faster in the conventional sense, but occurs on a qualitatively superior level, through a medium more real than space-time as we experience it. That doesn’t mean concepts like distance don't exist for them, but rather that they traverse real distances while we navigate what are, from their perspective, illusory ones.

That's why we scale genuine Author-type characters at 1-A, and why we don’t classify their lifting strength as merely Human level, even if they appear human. Their actions are grounded in a framework far beyond ours.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
My ideas:
  • Immaterial Speed
  • Inapplicable Speed
  • Transcendent speed <- May be to on the nose though
Click to expand...
What about Abstract Speed?

Or, if we want to really hammer in the superior aspect and be consistent, we could just call it "Outerversal Speed".
 
Phoenks said:
I'm never letting y'all cook again 😭

But anyway, I'd be down with "Transcendent" speed. Ultima kinda hated it but he's nowhere to be found so game is game.
Click to expand...
I also kind of hate it on the basis of it being cringe, but at the same time it's literally the most fitting so I don't have a logical argument against it.
 
I agree in theory that the new system opens doors for a return, this kind of suffers from the same issues for why we removed Immortality type 10 (Reason being is that it's just type 9 but 1-A levels of it). Ultima mentioned 1-A and above would be Immeasurable by default and a level of Immeasurable that Low 1-A and below would never compete with, but it's still not really some big change. Keeping 1-A to High 1-A+ as just Immeasurable but better. And Irrelevant and Immeasurable really are just too similar name wise. And Tier 0 characters need to be fully Omnipresent as a requirement anyway; Ultima was originally planning to bring it back for Tier 0, but canceled due to being unnecessary iirc.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Ultima mentioned 1-A and above would be Immeasurable by default and a level of Immeasurable that Low 1-A and below would never compete with, but it's still not really some big change.
Click to expand...
I would say it is quite significant that Low 1-A level of Immeasurable and 1-A level of Immeasurable are completely distinct levels of speed.

It also helps greatly for scaling things involving 1-A characters and structures, since that distinguishing label makes it easier to categorize things.

If you acknowledge they're so different, then I don't get why we wouldn't want to separate them.

It also isn't exactly similar to Immortality Type 10, since things like Type 8 & 9 can perfectly allow you to just explain how that ability ends up scaling to entities or objects that are 1-A. Like if you are the avatar of a 1-A being or reliant on a 1-A thing.

In the case of our current Immeasurable speed, it is much harder to convey that 1-As and other relevant characters scale to some transcendent level of immeasurable speed. Especially considering the base definition of Immeasurable is so far away from what those characters would be scaled to. It's like the example I gave where you merge Low 1-A and 1-A together.

As for the names, I already told you I'm willing to hear out more options. For the time being it seems like "Transcendent" is the running one.
 
I'm just gonna say this, I'm all in favor of bringing back the speed rating and renaming it to something like "Absolute", but at the same time we just added "Inapplicable" to our stamina and lifting strength pages a few months back. To be frank, I think it'd just be better if we give our speed page on this wiki the same treatment we gave the former 2.

I probably should've asked for permission first, so I'm sorry if I broke any rules.
 
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Omnificence said:
I'm just gonna say this, I'm all in favor of bringing back the speed rating and renaming it to something like "Absolute", but at the same time we just added "Inapplicable" to our stamina and lifting strength pages a few months back. To be frank, I think it'd just be better if we give our speed page on this wiki the same treatment we gave the former 2.

I probably should've asked for permission first, so I'm sorry if I broke any rules.
Click to expand...

I actually wasn't even aware that "inapplicable" lifting strength existed, but it seems that is specifically a Tier 0 property—not one that applies to 1-A through High 1-A+. So I don't think it should be treated the same as this level of speed.

For the speed rating, it preferably shouldn't be named "inapplicable" because the proposed "irrelevant" speed is still applicable to tiers outside of Tier 0. It's just that immeasurable isn't really applicable in the same way to 1-As as it is to things below that stage, since this speed is qualitatively beyond the notion of spatiotemporal dimensionality.

Not to mention, there can be countless extensions above this speed rating. As many as there are extensions to 1-A and High 1-A layers. "Inapplicable" would make it sound like its some end-all-be-all, when it isn't really. So I just don't think that's a fitting title. I do appreciate the sentiment, though.

I would also suggest bringing back a 1-A and higher form of lifting strength (preferably one that matches the name we decide to go with there), but that proposal isn't quite as necessary, so I decided to just do speed. Maybe we can add that later, depending on how this goes.
 
Hello, I have come from my cave then go back.

Currently 1-A and above do have a kinda unclear speed rating "immeasurable" given sometimes just for a fact that X is that tier without having statements/feats of this magnitude creating a so-so logic. In a way its a dilution of power scaling logic if it makes sense. Maybe Irrelevant or however its decided to be named (Apeiro~Speed) if agreed upon may fix some issues or create even more as you well know users do like to use vague statements (especially spacetime transcendence) without actual good backing which leads as usual to inflation or wank to say. I do know that each character of such rating should be evaluated case by case but it still it leaves a lot of interpretations to appear.

A note that I've seen mentioned by DarkDragonMedeus is that tier 0 should have Omnipresence as speed but Omnipresence is not "speed" but a "state of existence" which I don't think should be put on the speed tier even if we are doing it right now. X is not moving at all since they should be already everywhere.

Maybe add on the speed rating page a requirements section: BDE Type 2, 1-A or higher tier, existing beyond dimensionality and causality, etc - where they mandatory should have at least 1. Being faster than another Immeasurable character shouldn't be enough at all as its still a quantitative feature and not qualitative.

Idk if my opinion has any holds here as I'm not a thread mod or admin but I was asked to give some inputs.
 
Glad to see the name I initially suggested to Ultima is getting some love... 😭

I will go with Transcendent then.

How many more staff are needed to pass this thread?

I am guessing more than usual since DT is in disagreement, and he's a Bureaucrat.

Currently, I have 1 admin and 4 thread mods. I am uncertain if that's enough to outweigh 1 Bureaucrat vote.

DDM also seems to say that he agrees this speed level exists, but just isn't sure if it should be separated from Immeasurable. Though, I feel like if you agree this speed rating is a thing, you should definitely agree to have it separated since it is also it's entirely own hierarchy of speed. I really think it'd be a headache to keep going without it.
 
Phoenks said:
How many more staff are needed to pass this thread?

I am guessing more than usual since DT is in disagreement, and he's a Bureaucrat.

Currently, I have 1 admin and 4 thread mods. I am uncertain if that's enough to outweigh 1 Bureaucrat vote.
Click to expand...
Only administrators and bureaucrats have formal voting rights on wiki policy staff threads, as opposed to regular CRTs, where thread moderators are counted as well.
 
Phoenks said:
Could you cite this?
Click to expand...
vsbattles.fandom.com

Discussion Rules

VS Battles Wiki is a site where the members attempt to index the statistics of characters across different fictional franchises. These efforts lead to much discussion about certain feats, statements and calculations regarding their validity, reliability, etc. However, certain topics keep popping...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
In wiki policy revision threads, bureaucrats have both voting and veto rights. Administrators also have voting rights, and all staff members are welcome to comment in these threads, regardless of whether they have evaluation rights or not.
[...]
In the case of wiki policies concerning calculation instruction pages, calculation group members also have voting power, in addition to the voting and veto rights of bureaucrats and administrators.
Click to expand...
The rules are pretty clear in only counting bureaucrats and administrators, as well as calculation group members if the policy in question is about calcs.
 
Okay, then this is going to take a while. Many Admins are inactive or unwilling to dabble in Tier 1 and adjacent categories.

I'll try to get them, though I hate having to bug people about stuff constantly.
 
This might create a little bit of conflict with Tier 0, but what about Unbound/Unbounded? You know, since these characters are technically unbound by the speed formula in any meaningful way?
 
Zaratthustra said:
A note that I've seen mentioned by DarkDragonMedeus is that tier 0 should have Omnipresence as speed but Omnipresence is not "speed" but a "state of existence" which I don't think should be put on the speed tier even if we are doing it right now. X is not moving at all since they should be already everywhere.
Click to expand...
Just a note. Yes, Omnipresence is not a speed stat but a size stat (And omnipresent beings are also basically immobile in terms of movement generally speaking). But Omnipresent beings can still have combat speeds and reactions, which Inapplicable/Transcendent or whatever we call it levels of combat speed that anyone less than tier 0 can never reach is exactly what they have.

Anyway, this looks like a thread where more input from Bureaucrats and Super Moderators would be needed.
 
As far as I know, DT is the only bureaucrat that is knowledgeable on Tier 1. Bambú is pretty vocal about hating Tier 1 adjacent things. AKM is rather inactive iirc. And Antvasima doesn't seem to concern himself much with the specifics of the tiering system and is moreso just trying to keep things organized.

And for Super Moderators... who are those? I know Agnaa had already told me he has no interest in this subject, which is why I haven't called him here.

Btw, DDM, do you agree or disagree with this thread? I am not sure of your position exactly.
 
Bambu probably isn't interested either, Antvasima usually trusts DontTalkDT's judgement more than anyone's, but he should be made aware of the thread's existence at least. @Just_a_Random_Butler is also a Super Mod. And of course, Ultima was the main vanguard of the Low 1-A to Tier 0 revisions, so it would also demand his input too now that I think about it. But he is on hiatus for the next couple months due to IRL stuff. Perhaps we might want to put this on hold until he comes back?

As for my own thoughts, I am conflicted but lean towards DontTalkDT for now, but Ultima was originally planning on an Irrelevant/Inapplicable for Tier 0 specifically before going with Omnipresence. Though, as mentioned above, I agree with something similar would be the automatic combat speed for Tier 0. And I could change my mind if Ultima has anything to say on the matter, but it might be best to put on hold for when he returns.
 
I mean, as I said, I've already spoken to Ultima about this topic and he'd been planning to do this from the beginning. He just never got to it. And then he left. I even provided statements from Ultima on a proposed Irrelevant speed rating in the past.

And the arguments against that proposed rating only worked in the past because of the previous tiering system being fully mathematical.

It's also just pretty much impossible to have a tiering system where people can be qualitatively superior to space time, without also having a speed tier for people who are qualitatively superior to space time. The two of those go hand in hand for what I feel should be pretty obvious reasons.

Especially when we already accept that movement through more temporal dimensions equates to layers. Since, in that case, anything with 1-A BDE would be entirely beyond that temporal layering in speed. Meaning they'd be incomparably faster as well. The reason I initially was thinking of inaccessible was because of that factor. Their level of speed is beyond the reach of any amount of temporal layering (immeasurable speed layers). Since it can't be quantified within the bounds of spatiotemporal dimensionality in the same way.

If you want to wait for Ultima to come back to say the same things in a slightly different manner, then alright I guess... I think it's a bit of a bummer that this requires that.
 
Antvasima said:
What do you currently think that we should do here in summary?
Click to expand...
Add a transcendent speed category and give characters who can operate/move on 1-A or greater planes that speed.

Though just having 1-A power wouldn't grant the rating, it would require physical movement in that 1-A realms.
 
I am sorry to barge in without permission, but there is a pretty critical thing that should be addressed.

We currently have characters like Super Sonic who scale to 2 temporal dimensions in speed, and this thread exists to make 1-As not completely and utterly blitzed from beings who are supposed to be fictional by being defaulted to baseline Immeasurable speed, ok.

But what about Low 1-A beings? They're supposed to be beyond anything that is dimensioned.

In fact, the BDE page says this:

Type 2: Characters who exceed conventional dimensionality by possessing an excess of size. This refers to an object (or collections of objects) is simply too large to be a dimensional space in the conventional sense. For instance, the Universe of Sets, which contains all mathematical set-structures, and therefore all spaces in which dimensions are defined, being larger than all such spaces. Characters of this nature are Low 1-A and fall under this type.
Click to expand...

And the Tiering page says this:

Characters whose power is on the level of the Von Neumann Universe. That is, they either encompass, or can affect structures which encompass, the collection including all possible dimensional spaces.
Click to expand...

Basically, Low 1-A characters are already above all the possible combinations of dimensioned spaces, and this would include any arbitrary amount of temporal dimensions too, not just spatial.

Unless we're making Super Sonic, a character whose verse's cosmology is a mere 1-C, completely speedblitz StP's Hero, who is a Low 1-A being whose physical size exceeds any possible extension of both space and time, only because of his verse having 2 temporal dimensions, I think we need to give to Low 1-A characters also their own speed.

Edit: There is also the Lifting Strength, as it caps for Immeasurable for non-0 characters. Something should be done about this as well for obvious reasons.
 
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StrymULTRA said:
I am sorry to barge in without permission, but there is a pretty critical thing that should be addressed.
Click to expand...
You should have asked for permission man.

StrymULTRA said:
We currently have characters like Super Sonic who scale to 2 temporal dimensions in speed, and this thread exists to make 1-As not completely and utterly blitzed from beings who are supposed to be fictional by being defaulted to baseline Immeasurable speed, ok.
Click to expand...
That is indeed one of the reasons for this being important.

StrymULTRA said:
But what about Low 1-A beings? They're supposed to be beyond anything that is dimensioned.
Click to expand...
Low 1-A beings =/= beings with Type 2 Beyond-Dimensional Existence.

Tier is tied to Attack Potency, rather than the state of existence. Make sure to distinguish them.


StrymULTRA said:
Basically, Low 1-A characters are already above all the possible combinations of dimensioned spaces, and this would include any arbitrary amount of temporal dimensions too, not just spatial.
Click to expand...
They're not strictly above all possible combinations, they're just at the 'peak' of it all. Which is to say, they can't be reduced to any particular cardinality of dimensions. But they still are spatiotemporal beings. This is why they aren't 1-A, since they're still made up of some amount of "stuff" which composes both them and the lower tiers.

My suggestion would be for those who have Type 2 BDE to simply be at the peak of immeasurable speed. Assuming their existence ties into a set of all possible dimensions or an equivalent.

Or, maybe like "Immeasurable+" idk.
 
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Average Travel Speed Until Proven Otherwise
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