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Naruto's a limited energy system now
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Isekai at Peace Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Celestial_Pegasus
- Start date
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Dang, that's too bad.
Actually, I think there's an argument that all blessings, including shiro's blessing, does grant resistance layers. We know since early on that low-ranking god blessings can prevent people catching diseases. Then we have Illness' disease hax that can pierce through the protection of the True Blessings of High-ranking gods.
However, when the gods were given Shiro's quasi-blessing buff, Illness' hax couldn't pierce through it. You might argue that the Shiro quasi-blessing nullifies it instead, but it was never said that the power null was a property of what the gods received unlike the True Blessing Kaito received.
The language here implies the powernull property is unique to Shiro's True blessing.
TLDR:
All blessings have resistance layers.
Shiro's informal blessing = no powernull
Shiro's True blessing = powernull
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Here's a summary of the factors to resistance.
- Resistance is imbued into magic power that surrounds the body.
- Skillfulness, amount of magic power, and the strength of one's magic power itself matter.
- With enough practice it can be maintained without thinking passively.
- Taught early in knight training, so it is not a rare or elite skill.
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As far as I understand currently, it's still at 4 layers. Baron rank can resist the non-serious passive, then you have the serious passive. Then the other two active ones.
I'm unsure how this discovery applies to more layers, at least for Isis. However it does prove with the UES that the more magic power you have, the more types of magic you can resist. Reminds me of Konosuba. Maybe, we can apply a layer per rank. Another thing is other layers, like powernull. Lower ranks can nullify magic, but even up to the six kings, they have stronger powernull and resistance to it. Such as ignoring teleport nullifying, wouldn't this be a similar amount of layers. I think layers by rank may work tbh
I think in the magic blog, this can be noted. The more skilled you are, the more resistance you naturally gain as that's what you would have trained to do in order to reach that rank.
This does leave me to question though, do all variations of magic power of death act like authority? The weakest one for example. And if so, how does this even apply to a vs match tbh? Because it would seem the magic system in IaP would be unique, as once you reach a certain rank you can resist unique effects. So say, another character in a match has high magic power/is strong...but it's not the same as this UES, they shouldn't really resist magic power of death no?
I'm unsure how this discovery applies to more layers, at least for Isis. However it does prove with the UES that the more magic power you have, the more types of magic you can resist. Reminds me of Konosuba. Maybe, we can apply a layer per rank. Another thing is other layers, like powernull. Lower ranks can nullify magic, but even up to the six kings, they have stronger powernull and resistance to it. Such as ignoring teleport nullifying, wouldn't this be a similar amount of layers. I think layers by rank may work tbh
I think in the magic blog, this can be noted. The more skilled you are, the more resistance you naturally gain as that's what you would have trained to do in order to reach that rank.
This does leave me to question though, do all variations of magic power of death act like authority? The weakest one for example. And if so, how does this even apply to a vs match tbh? Because it would seem the magic system in IaP would be unique, as once you reach a certain rank you can resist unique effects. So say, another character in a match has high magic power/is strong...but it's not the same as this UES, they shouldn't really resist magic power of death no?
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The weakest version of magic power of death, the non-serious passive, is implied to have the same effects and works like an authority.
Magic power, other than Isis', causing fear, madness, and mental breakdowns can be found in others too. Kuro in the early chapters, before changing her true form, imbued her magic power with killing intent, which caused Kaito's mind to shatter and experience traumatic memories of his near-death experience. And this was considered less than Isis' normal passive aura.
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Then the magic in Iap is different than just "being strong enough" to resist magic power of death imo, such as with crossoverse
Noneless21
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so, if I can understand it correctly
Baron < Viscount < Count < Peak Count <= Duke < Six Kings?
I'm still not giving up on Isis having 1 billion layers of hax
Baron < Viscount < Count < Peak Count <= Duke < Six Kings?
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More like Baron < Count < Peak Count < Six Kings.
Don't think we have enough context to add Viscounts in the layering tbh
Noneless21
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We known exactly 2 Viscount character, and they both got upgraded to Count rank (Anima and Caraway) so yeah not much we know about Viscount rank
tho tbh it should be notable enough to give a layer maybe
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Maybe? I'm not exactly sure tbh. We only know that Baron ranks doesn't instantly get brain damage from passive magic power of death and Count ranks can hold a conversation with Isis. There shouldn't be that much of a gap between Baron and Viscount so adding a layer for Viscount seems iffy.
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I suppose if we go by ranks it'd be like 5-6 layers, as then her ability can start affecting six kings when active. 4 ranks, six kings resist passive, and then an additional 1 or 2 for affecting actively
...
I'm saying this as if someone won't drop some billion layers stuff in the span or a day or two
...
I'm saying this as if someone won't drop some billion layers stuff in the span or a day or two
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Stronger =/= more layered. You have to prove a resistance is overcome at each point.
Peak's like Ozma have shown stronger resistance to Isis passive than Baron's for example based on my memory, in that Ozma is almost unaffected by it, while a Baron would be sweating/shaking, both are resistant, but to differing degrees.
Peak's like Ozma have shown stronger resistance to Isis passive than Baron's for example based on my memory, in that Ozma is almost unaffected by it, while a Baron would be sweating/shaking, both are resistant, but to differing degrees.
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What's your opinion on blessings having resistance layers? At the very least, Shiro's informal blessing is the magic power of a quasi-omnipotent, which is 5D in essence at least. That's a simple 1 layer difference to the rest below, and I've proven that it doesn't have the property of powernull or even a statement for it.
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Here's an argument for why count ranks can resist Isis non-serious passive, which makes it one layer of resistance.
Ozma did not show any reaction to her passive and acted like his usual self, so he's unaffected by it.
Forgot this tidbit, but Nebula also confirms the non-serious passive is authority level.
Ozma did not show any reaction to her passive and acted like his usual self, so he's unaffected by it.
Iris as a count was also unaffected by the non-serious passive.
She felt pressure only when Isis got serious, not before, and she got used to it immediately to have a battle with Isis without becoming paralyzed with fear.
Forgot this tidbit, but Nebula also confirms the non-serious passive is authority level.
This is the weakest level of it after Isis met and interacted with Kaito throughout the entire main story.
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I guess the idea is that Iris was unaffected by Isis passive magic power, and got used to it over the course of their initial exchange, which she says if she hadn't done that before, the serious magic power of death would have left her paralyzed, we can explain this by Iris being Upper Count Rank at the time, and just getting better/more used to her body, so eventually got closer to a Peak's level of resistance, so I can see a layer.
I think there is a more serious concern, if Isis passive authority truly is an authority how can people of various levels even Baron Ranks resist it? Authorities are the absolute rules of the world, a higher power than magic, so how can it be resisted especially with recent information? Ie resistance in verse being done via imbuing magic power with resistance, so how can magic power stop something higher than itself?
About Nebula's statement, she also stated Lillywood is someone who barely crossed over Quasi-Omnipotence
Yet later on when all beings Quasi-Omnipotent and above got invited to discuss Kaito's party, Lillywood wasn't there, meaning imo this was meant regarding her potential which we already know is that level, so can we really take Nebula's statement about Isis passive magic power as referring to its current strength at that point, or its full potential?
6 Kings and beings like that resisting authorities make perfect sense seeing as they are bugs in the world created by Shiro, but it seems contradictory to me to claim authorities are the absolute pinnacle, while at the same time saying everyone relevant can resist something which is an authority.
I think there is a more serious concern, if Isis passive authority truly is an authority how can people of various levels even Baron Ranks resist it? Authorities are the absolute rules of the world, a higher power than magic, so how can it be resisted especially with recent information? Ie resistance in verse being done via imbuing magic power with resistance, so how can magic power stop something higher than itself?
About Nebula's statement, she also stated Lillywood is someone who barely crossed over Quasi-Omnipotence
Yet later on when all beings Quasi-Omnipotent and above got invited to discuss Kaito's party, Lillywood wasn't there, meaning imo this was meant regarding her potential which we already know is that level, so can we really take Nebula's statement about Isis passive magic power as referring to its current strength at that point, or its full potential?
6 Kings and beings like that resisting authorities make perfect sense seeing as they are bugs in the world created by Shiro, but it seems contradictory to me to claim authorities are the absolute pinnacle, while at the same time saying everyone relevant can resist something which is an authority.
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That's also my issue with it really. Authorities are said to be absolute, yet even lower ranks can resist similar effects? This creates some inconsistency
It would make sense if isis's power started acting like authority when she is similar or something. Unless we have varying degrees of "acting like authority". What if isis's power is like a weaker variant of authority until she gets more serious about it, passively and actively. Authorities themselves are usually direct anyway, so the passive probably just isn't as potent. Then the magic system makes it so the more control and time you spend, the better you last against weaker effects. But idk
It's still pretty weird, especially since isis's power bypassed shiros blessing, which yeah obviously no one is getting around that besides kuro or similar people
The only other explanation...is that Nebula fell off
It would make sense if isis's power started acting like authority when she is similar or something. Unless we have varying degrees of "acting like authority". What if isis's power is like a weaker variant of authority until she gets more serious about it, passively and actively. Authorities themselves are usually direct anyway, so the passive probably just isn't as potent. Then the magic system makes it so the more control and time you spend, the better you last against weaker effects. But idk
It's still pretty weird, especially since isis's power bypassed shiros blessing, which yeah obviously no one is getting around that besides kuro or similar people
The only other explanation...is that Nebula fell off
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With Isis, we know she is the reincarnation of the Evil God, who while physical weaker than the gods in Trinia, was still a God, so she had an authority to begin with, which was that power which caused everyone in the world to feel despair, and then Shiro from memory boosted it, creating the magic power of death, so it can explain stuff like getting past Shiro's blessing, however it still leads back to it being contradictory for everyone and their mother to resist the full extent of something this powerful.
It's repeatedly stated and shown the superiority of authorities, to where even someone as prideful as Eingana, a Peak Count Rank has to admit Marine is better than her with sea abilities
This is because authorities are the principle of the world and apart of Shiro's power, so yea how exactly can the lower tiers resist abilities like it.
It's repeatedly stated and shown the superiority of authorities, to where even someone as prideful as Eingana, a Peak Count Rank has to admit Marine is better than her with sea abilities
This is because authorities are the principle of the world and apart of Shiro's power, so yea how exactly can the lower tiers resist abilities like it.
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This is why the only thing I can really think of, is her non-serious ability being a much weaker variation of authority or something. But if authorities are meant to be the absolute laws this doesn't make sense.
A count ranks magic isn't bypassing kaitos blessing. But isis obviously could. Perhaps Shiro upgraded the blessing after this and I'm misremembering. That, or authorities themselves have different levels of strength, resulting in some sortve layers with authority.
Is there anything perhaps suggesting isis's aura wasn't in its weakest state when meeting Kaito? This is a big whim though...
A count ranks magic isn't bypassing kaitos blessing. But isis obviously could. Perhaps Shiro upgraded the blessing after this and I'm misremembering. That, or authorities themselves have different levels of strength, resulting in some sortve layers with authority.
Is there anything perhaps suggesting isis's aura wasn't in its weakest state when meeting Kaito? This is a big whim though...
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raws don't say Lillywood became quasi-omnipotent
.Btw, authorities do have layers among too. Supreme God authorities transcend the rest of the other authorities.
Isis' magic power of death also scales to her mental state. When she met Kaito, she was in a foul mood, so it was stronger than usual.
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@Enter_Bluey Pretty sure its the opposite, Isis magic power of death is also influenced by her mental state, after tens of thousands of years of being rejected by others, Isis mental state was very bad when she met Kaito, but even since then it's gotten better, and gradually the passive magic power of death affects a shorter range, and isn't as potent.
@Legacy30 It doesn't? Still doesn't change a lot I think. Supreme Gods authorities are stronger than the others, but more "layered" is an incorrect term probably, not as the wiki defines it. Not without evidence anyway.
Even if some authorities are stronger than the others, it doesn't take away from authorities in general supposedly being absolute, these 2 things can't coexist imo either authorities are absolute in comparison to abilities like magic, or Isis magic power of death having its peculiarities such as being dependent on her mental state, doesn't exert the full extent of an authority unless she goes all out.
@Legacy30 It doesn't? Still doesn't change a lot I think. Supreme Gods authorities are stronger than the others, but more "layered" is an incorrect term probably, not as the wiki defines it. Not without evidence anyway.
Even if some authorities are stronger than the others, it doesn't take away from authorities in general supposedly being absolute, these 2 things can't coexist imo either authorities are absolute in comparison to abilities like magic, or Isis magic power of death having its peculiarities such as being dependent on her mental state, doesn't exert the full extent of an authority unless she goes all out.
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The way I see it, it might just be retconned that Isis' magic power of death is only "like" on the level of an authority and not fully one yet. During the 1500+ chapters, Kuro remarked that it was "close" to an authority.
In fact, Isis' other authority is described as complete and in its full power.
But well, there are still statements that the magic power of death is on par with authorities.
In fact, Isis' other authority is described as complete and in its full power.
magic power of death is close to an authority.
Only the authority of connect hearts is in its complete form.
Wasn't there also the chart power ranking of the gods, with Isis being at the bottom saying that she's awakening to authority level power but isn't quasi-omnipotent yet?
But well, there are still statements that the magic power of death is on par with authorities.
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Tbh, I think we're forgetting that the inherent strength of one's magic power also comes into play with resistance. For example, Shiro's magic power, that is on a quasi-omnipotent level, can erase Fate to the point that not even Life's authority can revive her. Higher d smurf doesn't exist anymore, so this magic power is blatantly one layer above everything that is Shiro's creations. Too put it simply, it comes down to quality of magic power?
Chatgpt also says something similar.
When you go up in rank, the quality of magic power changes.
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Authorities are apart of Shiro's magic power, the inherent strength of beings below that, shouldn't matter, especially with all the statements about WC being of a different rank than their creations and what not, authorities are absolute because they are Shiro's power, who is the absolute rule of the world.
That said if the ability to connect hearts was still perfect, and it is indeed was what allow Kuro and co to help Kaito during his ordeal, while the others couldn't, that makes sense.
The magic power of death while having the potential to become a WC's authority, isn't currently on that level, but is something Isis is going to awaken to and become WC level.
It might make the most sense that current/previous Isis magic power of death, is just close to a God's authority, while not being on that level, so it's not quite an absolute thing.
That said if the ability to connect hearts was still perfect, and it is indeed was what allow Kuro and co to help Kaito during his ordeal, while the others couldn't, that makes sense.
The magic power of death while having the potential to become a WC's authority, isn't currently on that level, but is something Isis is going to awaken to and become WC level.
It might make the most sense that current/previous Isis magic power of death, is just close to a God's authority, while not being on that level, so it's not quite an absolute thing.
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I think the simplest solution is what Pegasus has said before. Her mental state was incredibly bad, so her passive was probably leaking out more potent than usual. Wasn't there a black aura exuding around her?
If this is the case, she could have been leaking out an unexpectedly stronger normal aura this whole time. We can kinda see this once she stopped corroding everything around her upon meeting kaito, right?
But if we are saying her power is right below absolute, it still wouldn't explain how she bypassed a blessing which should infact be absolute unless against another WC. So...something like:
Pre-meeting Kaito (aura = serious level passive), after Kaito (a non-serious level passive). I don't think it would be too far fetched to say Kaito changed up everything, but I mean if lower ranks could resist even before Kaito arrived, I don't know
If this is the case, she could have been leaking out an unexpectedly stronger normal aura this whole time. We can kinda see this once she stopped corroding everything around her upon meeting kaito, right?
But if we are saying her power is right below absolute, it still wouldn't explain how she bypassed a blessing which should infact be absolute unless against another WC. So...something like:
Pre-meeting Kaito (aura = serious level passive), after Kaito (a non-serious level passive). I don't think it would be too far fetched to say Kaito changed up everything, but I mean if lower ranks could resist even before Kaito arrived, I don't know
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I think that might be the case. The Despair God's power level in Alice's opinion was on the lowest level of high-ranking gods. It's magic power of despair evolved to the magic power of death, but is still not a world creator's level like Shiro's.
Well, we kinda got to go through how Shiro's True blessing, which is an upgrade over the informal blessing that has a layered resistance, was pierced through by Isis. The True Blessing nullifies malicious magic only, so it didn't register magic power of death as malicious? The power null part can be explained with that, but the layered resistance is still there.
Oh, magic power of death pierces through barriers and defensive magic. Blessings are defensive magic, so it had precedence over blessings.
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Eh, but we've seen it nullify Alice clothes and stuff, idk if it's only for malicious intent. It also prevented fate reading it. And the magic power itself is well...death, so it would be killing Kaito. The blessing not activating when it could legit kill him doesn't seem too right
But there may be a different between the layers, and bypass barriers/defenses effect of the magic power?
But there may be a different between the layers, and bypass barriers/defenses effect of the magic power?
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For Alice, it's because the magic she used was meant for deceiving Kaito.
Isis repressed her magic power of death thousands to years ago to not indiscriminately kill everything around her. It only scares others, but that's not intentional from her part. So maybe that's why it doesn't trigger the blessings powernull. You can bypass Kaito's defenses by not having ill intent.
As for Fate's authority, it's weird because it's blamed as Shiro's inexperience as it was her first time blessing someone. Fate's authority doesn't work, but Chronois' time stop does. And Shiro has given updates on the blessing in the afterstories.
As for Nebula's statement on Isis' magic power of death being on the level of an authority, you can say she was talking about its full potential rather than its current level of power, I can agree with that.
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Actually when I think about it, authority isn't even magic right? So it would make more sense for an authority to work? Aside from that however, the time stop is a weird interaction. I mean it's stopping time of the entire world, and with this argument you could say it wasn't "an ill act towards kaito", but idk.
I do agree you could take nebulas statement as it's full potential as well though. But I mean still...wasn't Alice using that magic in general just as a disguise? I recall two times, in the shop and then in the bath where she altered her appearance. I forgot what's the one you sent tho
I don't know if I could get behind that alone being "'hostile" but a magic power that threatened to end his life not indirectly being considered so. But if this is used as the logic here, would get rid of some "smurf"/layer stuff?
I do agree you could take nebulas statement as it's full potential as well though. But I mean still...wasn't Alice using that magic in general just as a disguise? I recall two times, in the shop and then in the bath where she altered her appearance. I forgot what's the one you sent tho
I don't know if I could get behind that alone being "'hostile" but a magic power that threatened to end his life not indirectly being considered so. But if this is used as the logic here, would get rid of some "smurf"/layer stuff?
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I think you're right that it still could be smurf with magic power of death piercing through the blessing.
Plus, when Isis got serious and filled her magic power with killing intent during the black bear incident, it reached everywhere in the city but didn't get negated by Kaito's blessing.
First time when Kaito nullified Alice's clothes in the shop, there was no explanation if that was hostile or not
Oh yeah, it passively nullified drunkenness with Megiddo, so it's clearly not just hostile stuff only...
Kuro targeted Kaito with her magic power full of killing intent and that pierced through the blessing. And then Isis' aura scales above that and worked the same, so magic power of death naturally pierces through blessings still.
Plus, when Isis got serious and filled her magic power with killing intent during the black bear incident, it reached everywhere in the city but didn't get negated by Kaito's blessing.
First time when Kaito nullified Alice's clothes in the shop, there was no explanation if that was hostile or not
Oh yeah, it passively nullified drunkenness with Megiddo, so it's clearly not just hostile stuff only...
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Noneless21
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I think Kaito's blessing nullify alcohol because it's considered as toxic than anything
But yeah Shiro's blessing is literally based on vibes and what Shiro allowed, basically portrayed as inconsistent as ****
But yeah Shiro's blessing is literally based on vibes and what Shiro allowed, basically portrayed as inconsistent as ****
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@Legacy30 @Enter_Bluey Which chapter in the webnovel does Kaito find out that Alice is the Illusion King (Phantasmal King), and a good site to read the webnovel?
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Did you catch up to the manga? Read the webnovel on foxaholic. Since you want to start where the manga dropped off, chapter 139 should be good.
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Yeah, and the chapters got so much shorter, and the pace they’re coming out is slow as hell. I gave up on it.
Thanks!
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What legacy said seems about right for where to start on the WN
The only thing I can maybe say is the death and mind hax have less layers than the barrier/defense bypassing. Maybe one is stronger than the other
Yeah, that last part is funny. Obviously Kaito doesn't have hostile intent towards himself. Then Alice got trolled by it twice. Another thing, didn't Alice use sleep magic on him...the blessing didn't negate it? Was this before the blessing? Because that's also one odd inconsistencyI think you're right that it still could be smurf with magic power of death piercing through the blessing.
Kuro targeted Kaito with her magic power full of killing intent and that pierced through the blessing. And then Isis' aura scales above that and worked the same, so magic power of death naturally pierces through blessings still.
Plus, when Isis got serious and filled her magic power with killing intent during the black bear incident, it reached everywhere in the city but didn't get negated by Kaito's blessing.
First time when Kaito nullified Alice's clothes in the shop, there was no explanation if that was hostile or not
Oh yeah, it passively nullified drunkenness with Megiddo, so it's clearly not just hostile stuff only...
The only thing I can maybe say is the death and mind hax have less layers than the barrier/defense bypassing. Maybe one is stronger than the other
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If you mean when Alice kidnapped him, she didn't use magic, she knocked him out with a chop to the back of his neck. Alice never met him before he received the blessing.
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I think the manga may have messed up and done it differently...Alice may have used sleep magic
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Peerage Ranking System revision has been applied, think it might be necessary to make a World Creator Physiology page now that we have a peerage ranking system, first thing would be to say they got everything from the peerage ranking system, though idk their stuff basically comes from the fact they can do almost/do anything, so if its made, it may make the actually profiles look barebones, since you can list all their abilities under the physiology page.
Anyway in a little way after I come back, will post the upgrade attempt at High 1-B, wasn't that hard to put together, so might as well get it out the way while waiting for all the calcs to be evaluated.
Anyway in a little way after I come back, will post the upgrade attempt at High 1-B, wasn't that hard to put together, so might as well get it out the way while waiting for all the calcs to be evaluated.
Noneless21
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I think it should be fine if we dont have world creator physiology, there's only 5 profile that are World Creator level anyway, unless we wanna add Nebula/Canalis/Electrone/Whoever notable
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You should apply Peerage Ranking (High-ranking demon) to Sieglinde and Lunamaria's pre-final arc keys. Sieglinde fought Eta, who is just below Baron in the main story, and Lunamaria is relative to Sieglinde.
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