Itachi Vs Sirius (Battle for 9th Non-Smurf 7-A)

[AlternativePrinciple]

You're not really considering how fundamentally different the systems involved here are. Sirius’s Authority doesn’t just hit the mind or soul directly the way a basic soul or genjutsu attack would. Her ability links her emotions, senses, and soul to other people using the Od, which is a unique metaphysical construct in Re:Zero.

Chakra also connects emotions, mind and soul. This is a very big thing in Naruto as the very foundation of chakra is to use it as a linking force that can interact with and connect others spiritual and mentally. Giving them the ability to understand and communicate with each other with out the need of words.

further more the fact that will-power and emotional amps are emphasized in the verse is proof how how connected emotions, soul and the mind are in the verse.

The Od isn’t something like chakra that characters train, manipulate, or sense. It’s not a network of energy lines or a pool of power. It’s a non-physical, invisible bridge between body and soul that also governs things like mana flow and spiritual health. You can’t sense it with observation skills or scan for it with energy perception. It’s something you’re born with, and most characters never even become aware of its existence unless it’s damaged or disrupted.

Chakra is in a similar position as normal folks can’t manipulate chakra and is completely insensible to the normal folks. Even before the time of shinobi, chakra was not even known to the people to have existed, only when hagoromo came around did he teach people of the existence of chakra. Shinobi themselves can’t sense chakra only a select few can do that, which either have special doujutsu or are sensory type ninja with a six sense for chakra detection.

Chakra too is non-physical in nature and can only be materialized by having high concentration of it in one place and even then is takes the form of flesh like the tailed beasts

That matters a lot here, because Sirius’s hax doesn’t require her to target you directly. Just being aware of her — not even seeing or hearing her, just knowing she exists — is enough to trigger the link. Once it’s active, she can amplify your emotions to the point of death, control your thoughts and actions by overriding your emotional state, transfer pain or injuries to you, and even cause your death if someone else nearby dies. These aren’t conventional attacks. There’s no hand seal, no spiritual burst, no visual effect to react to. She doesn’t need to aim it or activate it — it's passive, automatic, and based on metaphysical proximity.

The metaphysical part seems iffy but ok

Now compare that to Itachi. Yeah, he has impressive resistance to chakra-based hax. He can counter genjutsu, resist mind control, and even exert influence over his own Edo Tensei form. But all of that is still happening within the logic of the Naruto verse. His resistances work against chakra-based interference — illusions, spiritual effects, or soul-level jutsu — but they don’t scale to something like the Od, which functions on entirely different metaphysical principles. Itachi has never dealt with a system where the soul and emotions are forcibly linked to someone else's without a jutsu or clear technique involved. He’s never shown the ability to perceive or even recognize something like the Od, and without that, how would he even begin to resist or defend against it?


This is exactly why cross-verse assumptions break down. Saying “he resists soul and mind hax” doesn’t mean he resists every kind of soul or mind hax in fiction. It means he resists the types that exist in his own verse. Sirius’s Authority works on a completely different axis — it bypasses conscious defense entirely and attacks a part of a person that Naruto characters aren’t even built to deal with. Unless you can show that Itachi’s resistances explicitly extend to metaphysical structures like the Od, and that he has any kind of defense against soul-emotional resonance that doesn’t rely on chakra, there's no solid reason to think he would be unaffected.


At best, it's speculative. At worst, it's a total mismatch of mechanics. So no, saying “he resists soul and mind manipulation” isn’t enough here. Not when the nature of the manipulation, the triggering conditions, and the metaphysical structure it interacts with are completely foreign to what Itachi has ever encountered.

Then this is a total mis-match

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Itachi's first move normally involves a clone anyway. I don't see why he doesn't just beat her without even being in range himself.

So Subaru was able to attempt sneaking up on her and the only reason it did not work as you stated is because she showed up unexpectedly. With stealth being Itachi's forte (and he is better than most who are already masters of stealth) I don't see why he can not do the same, even better if he just uses a clone to fight it out with her like he normally does.

Also to learn more about her abilities I decided to check the wiki:

"The Authority's intensity seems to fade the further the range and extension, and the effectiveness can vary drastically between people. Sirius also possesses the ability to exclude people from the effects of her Authority. Her Authority can, however, be resisted by creating emotions intense enough to break them free from its influence. In the case of Priscilla, it was her excessive pride, whereas with Liliana and an entire affected crowd, a combination of roused emotions through Liliana's music and Priscilla's Soul Marriage Technique managed to free them. Likewise, other people can use her Authority against her: when an entire city was at its lowest and most desperate while under the Authority's influence, Subaru took advantage of her Authority to give those very same people hope and morale, to the point that the people were ready to take up arms and were no longer scared of their attackers."

It is not as effective at longer ranges. Strong emotions can resist it as well.

Again I do not see how Itachi with his brilliant mind and his use of clones and crows would not figure it out even if he somehow cannot resist it.

You're fundamentally misunderstanding how Sirius's Authority works and what it actually does.


SBA gives a 4km starting distance and both characters are aware of each other. Sirius’s Authority activates passively the moment someone becomes aware of her existence. It doesn’t require her to look at you, speak, or even notice you. The moment you're aware of her in any capacity, it begins linking your soul and emotions to hers. This isn't something that can be dodged or countered through standard means. It's not a jutsu. There's no chakra to detect, no sign that it’s happening, and no intent behind it. It just happens because she exists.


Itachi wouldn’t even have time to react or figure anything out. The Authority starts the moment he's aware of her, which would be immediately. There's no prep or strategy he can form before it starts affecting him. This isn’t something you can wait and analyze. It’s metaphysical and passive, not tactical. The fact that her Authority worked across an entire city full of people makes it clear that the idea of it “falling off after 4km” is just not true. Sirius was affecting hundreds of people spread across Priestella at once. A 4km range is nothing to her.


And trying to say “strong emotion resists it” ignores the actual context of the story. Liliana didn’t resist Sirius because of her own emotional power. She was placed under the effect of Priscilla’s Soul Marriage Technique. That gave her a soul-level buffer by literally receiving a piece of Priscilla’s Od. Only after being under that protection was she able to push back by singing, which amplified her Divine Protection. So her ability to fight back wasn’t because of emotional strength, it was because of a specific magical system that interacted with Sirius’s Authority directly and had already been boosted by another character’s soul manipulation. It still wasn’t perfect either. Sirius started figuring it out and adapting mid-fight.


Priscilla is in a completely different tier narratively. Her Soul Marriage doesn’t just give defense, it allows her to share soul energy with people she has a mutual love bond with. It’s a forgotten technique from the Old World and is tied directly into Od manipulation. Itachi has no equivalent for this. He doesn’t share his soul, doesn’t manipulate Od, and doesn’t have access to any similar concept in his own verse. Priscilla is also clearly written as someone who naturally resists soul-level interference just by existing. That’s a narrative thing, not something other characters from different settings can scale to.


And no, Sirius's Authority isn't something you figure out and resist through deduction or experience. It doesn't show symptoms like genjutsu. It doesn't involve illusions or chakra signals. It’s a soul-emotion link that bypasses everything Itachi is used to dealing with. Figuring it out requires not only understanding the metaphysics of her verse but resisting them too, which he can't do. Even if you somehow argued he understood it, that wouldn’t help when he’s already affected before he even knows what’s happening.


So no, he doesn’t get to “just stay back,” “send a clone,” or “analyze her ability.” He’s linked the moment the match starts, affected by a system he has no frame of reference for, and dealing with an ability that passively drags his soul into a web of emotion, pain, and death just because he knows she’s there.

 

[Rocker1189]

snip

You keep saying just because he knows she is there, again assuming this even works on him in the first place is there evidence of people just falling under her influence just by thinking of her?

Like you are saying there is no capability to strategize and yet Subaru was able to attempt sneaking up on her apparently.

Also isn't all this through a link that Itachi would not have since he was not born with it?

 

[Arcker123]

How is any of this consistent with the idea someone in her own verse was even semi successful with using stealth against her?

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

I also don’t get the Od argument. Like sure it a meta physical thing that connects the soul and body together, host emotions and is essential for a being to live and be healthy. So is Chakra, with out chakra you can’t exist or have a soul, emotions or have good health (like hagoromo and nards chkara illnesses). Furthermore, chakra is so metaphysical that it connects to a metaphysical dimension like the pure lands.

Just because chakra can be sense or has a biological organ that circulates it through the body doesn’t take away its metaphysical nature. Just like how our brains hosts our consciousness doesn’t take away the metaphysical nature of consciousness. Chakra can be nothingness, life it self, the very existence of creation or the reasons why humans understand each others heart with out words

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Then how does that work when you can not even equalize this to chakra since Itachi would not have an equivalent to Od? You can not have you cake and eat it to.

You are giving Od some special hierarchy over other verse abilities without even realizing that if it is based on individuals being born into it then other verses would not have said link in the first place.

What you're misunderstanding here is that Sirius's Authority doesn’t rely on only manipulating the Od. It uses the Od as the vector to affect emotions, senses, and the soul. That means Od isn’t the target, it's the medium. So whether or not Od is “equalized” is a secondary concern. Under VS rules, unless the soul explicitly does not exist in the target verse, soul-affecting abilities are considered valid. Naruto has souls. Therefore, soul-manipulation and emotion-linking are valid targets.


What Itachi resists is chakra-based or illusion-based soul/mind hax. Sirius bypasses all of that by weaponizing a unique system that isn’t chakra, isn’t genjutsu, and doesn’t give off indicators. Her effect is metaphysical and automatically links targets through awareness, which Itachi has no resistance feats for.


You don’t need to “give Od a hierarchy.” You just need to understand that Sirius’s ability operates outside the usual chakra/mana/spiritual energy formats. And when that kind of structure is allowed through equalization, resistance still needs to be mechanically applicable, not just thematically similar.

No you would have to prove in the first place that a similar metaphysical structure exists in Naruto in which she can manipulate and take control of. Again you can not give a special hierarchy to Od when said Od or an equivalent does not exist in Naruto. It would be like soul haxing someone that has no soul. In other words impossible to do so.

This argument would only be valid if Naruto characters explicitly had no souls, which they do not. The soul is a canon part of Naruto’s lore. Reanimation Jutsu, Edo Tensei, and Rinnegan soul extraction prove it multiple times over. So soul-affecting abilities work in-verse by default.


Sirius doesn’t need to manipulate a literal “Od” in Naruto. Her ability still applies because it manipulates the soul, and VS equalization covers things like the medium her ability uses (Od), unless the target doesn’t have a compatible targetable structure. Since Naruto characters do have souls and emotions, Sirius’s ability still applies.


Your argument treats Od as the target, but it’s actually the conduit, and unless the soul doesn’t exist, the ability doesn’t fail just because the medium isn’t native.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Chakra also connects emotions, mind and soul.

This is a false equivalence. Just because chakra can be involved with the mind, soul, or emotions doesn’t mean it’s functionally identical to Od or interacts with those aspects in the same way Sirius’s Authority does. Chakra is a construct formed from spiritual and physical energy and molded intentionally. Sirius's Authority is passive, metaphysical, and doesn’t require the user or victim to consciously interact with it. Od is not used like chakra to form techniques or enhance physical abilities—it’s a structural anchor to one's soul, not a power system in the same way chakra is.

This is a very big thing in Naruto as the very foundation of chakra is to use it as a linking force that can interact with and connect others spiritual and mentally. Giving them the ability to understand and communicate with each other with out the need of words.

further more the fact that will-power and emotional amps are emphasized in the verse is proof how how connected emotions, soul and the mind are in the verse.

That’s true within Naruto’s internal logic, but again, you’re assuming the function is the same, not just the themes. Re:Zero and Naruto treat soul-emotion-mind connections very differently. The way Sirius’s Authority uses Od creates an involuntary metaphysical link that connects multiple people to a shared emotion-soul field, which auto-triggers on awareness. Chakra links don’t function like this, they require technique use, specific contact, or jutsu casting. You can’t assume Naruto’s resistances cover passive metaphysical links just because chakra has some spiritual applications.

Chakra is in a similar position as normal folks can’t manipulate chakra and is completely insensible to the normal folks. Even before the time of shinobi, chakra was not even known to the people to have existed, only when hagoromo came around did he teach people of the existence of chakra. Shinobi themselves can’t sense chakra only a select few can do that, which either have special doujutsu or are sensory type ninja with a six sense for chakra detection.

This is an oversimplification. Normal civilians can’t use chakra, but it’s still a known, studied, trainable energy that’s stored in the body and released via tenketsu points. Chakra is treated like a life force that can be extracted, sealed, molded, sensed, and enhanced. Od is not that. Od is invisible, not used for combat or energy techniques, and most people don’t even know it exists until they’re dying. You can’t equate “invisible energy” with “metaphysical structural anchor” just because both are invisible to civilians. They play completely different roles in their respective verses.

Chakra too is non-physical in nature and can only be materialized by having high concentration of it in one place and even then is takes the form of flesh like the tailed beasts

You’re proving the distinction here. Chakra can be sensed, stored, suppressed, and condensed into matter (like Rasengan or Tailed Beast forms). That already makes it fundamentally different from Od, which doesn’t form constructs or energy attacks. It’s not a spiritual battery or a moldable energy—it’s more like a metaphysical bloodstream that reflects emotional/soul state. Sirius weaponizes that structure, not the energy flow.


So no, chakra ≠ Od. And because Itachi’s resistances are chakra/genjutsu-specific, not structure-based, he has no feats that suggest he'd resist being pulled into an Od-linked emotional-soul network the moment Sirius is perceived.

 

[DavidTPPM]

How did this explode so much, didn't everyone agree Itachi stomps?

 

[Delusionaltx2]

1. The beginning of the series statements have been retconned completely as we know chakra wasnt even the combination of a person's spiritual/mental and physical energy that they create on the spot but rather STORED inside of them and was given to them by an otsutsuki. By the nature of that, I believe it is completely disingenuous to use that statement along with ibuki's later on.

No? They simply couldv'e been given the ability to use it by kaguya. Normal humans can't naturally fuse their phys and spiritual energy.

2. The soul manipulation is also +2 layers lmfao, also we have concept slop for authorities coming so this will be even more one sided in a while. Itachi is not beating Sirius.

cool, the soul has for itachi would be the same as his mind hax resistance because of how genjutsu works which gives him 5 layers.

3. Dont say stuff not on the profile, Genjutsu does not have soul manipulation listed along with it, Itachi also does not have any resistance to soul manipulation whatsoever

Something under this would be listed under chakra manipulation which isn't finished yet at all.

As long as chakra msnipulation and his resistances to genjutsu IS at least listed or alluded too/ accepted (which it is) then he literally gets this by proxy

 

[Arcker123]

How did this explode so much, didn't everyone agree Itachi stomps?

Depends on how this authority business is cashed out. If it does not instantly neg Itachi at the start of the match then yeah, it's a wash, if it does then it's a wash for the opposite side.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

You keep saying just because he knows she is there, again assuming this even works on him in the first place is there evidence of people just falling under her influence just by thinking of her?

Yes, there is. The trigger conditions for Sirius’s Authority are explicitly stated to be extremely broad. Anyone who sees her, hears her voice, senses her presence, or is aware of her existence can be affected. It doesn’t require intent, contact, or even proximity depending on how much she amplifies the effect.


In fact, the cast of Re:Zero didn’t even realize they were falling under her influence until they were already being emotionally controlled which proves the activation is not something you can consciously guard against. You don’t “think of her and fall,” you’re automatically linked if she’s aware of you or within range. That’s the whole danger of her ability.

Like you are saying there is no capability to strategize and yet Subaru was able to attempt sneaking up on her apparently.

That’s not accurate. Subaru actually failed to sneak up on Sirius — he was caught trying to save the child, and the plan didn’t work because she detected him first. So the claim that someone with stealth can just bypass the Authority is already disproven by context.

Also isn't all this through a link that Itachi would not have since he was not born with it?

That’s not how SBA works. Under standard VS debating assumptions, all necessary mechanics for an ability to function are treated as existing unless they are explicitly denied by the target verse. So because Sirius’s ability uses the Od to link to a target's soul, emotions, and senses, and Naruto characters do have a soul and emotional structure, Itachi is treated as having an Od.


This isn’t treated like an external or foreign system being “inserted” into Naruto, it’s assumed to be native to the verse for the sake of the ability functioning normally. This is the exact same logic as how soul-based abilities still work across verses unless the soul is explicitly absent. If you didn’t allow this kind of framework to equalize, then basically no cross-verse soul or mind hax would ever work, which breaks SBA logic entirely.


So yes, Itachi has an Od in this match. that’s how the framework enforces mechanical parity for hax to function at all.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

That’s not accurate. Subaru actually failed to sneak up on Sirius — he was caught trying to save the child, and the plan didn’t work because she detected him first. So the claim that someone with stealth can just bypass the Authority is already disproven by context.

So she has to detect someone first? Is it automatic or does she physically have to?

 

[Rocker1189]

What you're misunderstanding here is that Sirius's Authority doesn’t rely on only manipulating the Od. It uses the Od as the vector to affect emotions, senses, and the soul. That means Od isn’t the target, it's the medium. So whether or not Od is “equalized” is a secondary concern. Under VS rules, unless the soul explicitly does not exist in the target verse, soul-affecting abilities are considered valid. Naruto has souls. Therefore, soul-manipulation and emotion-linking are valid targets.


What Itachi resists is chakra-based or illusion-based soul/mind hax. Sirius bypasses all of that by weaponizing a unique system that isn’t chakra, isn’t genjutsu, and doesn’t give off indicators. Her effect is metaphysical and automatically links targets through awareness, which Itachi has no resistance feats for.

This is contradictory. If she uses Od to affect things like the body and soul and whatnot but you resist the affecting of said things then it does not matter that she uses Od. As long as you have resistance you resist them. Which is why she does not have resistance negation on her page.

Your argument treats Od as the target, but it’s actually the conduit, and unless the soul doesn’t exist, the ability doesn’t fail just because the medium isn’t native.

If Odis the conduit and not the target then it stands to reason that you can resist the manipulation of Od if you have the required resistances of what it affects.

You don’t “think of her and fall,” you’re automatically linked if she’s aware of you or within range. That’s the whole danger of her ability.

So she needs to know exactly where he is which is where his stealth skills come in.

So because Sirius’s ability uses the Od to link to a target's soul, emotions, and senses, and Naruto characters do have a soul and emotional structure, Itachi is treated as having an Od.

That is not at all how it works. Souls are equalised but when you specifically are born with something which is still different to Od (souls) it does not mean you then gain Od out of no where. So Itachi would get neither he benefits nor the demerits of having Od as there is no Od equivalent in Naruto.

This isn’t treated like an external or foreign system being “inserted” into Naruto, it’s assumed to be native to the verse for the sake of the ability functioning normally.

Functioning normally means that Itachi was never born with Od in the first place. Od is not the soul.

So yes, Itachi has an Od in this match. that’s how the framework enforces mechanical parity for hax to function at all.

So no Itachi would not have Od in the match.

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

This is a false equivalence. Just because chakra can be involved with the mind, soul, or emotions doesn’t mean it’s functionally identical to Od or interacts with those aspects in the same way Sirius’s Authority does. Chakra is a construct formed from spiritual and physical energy and molded intentionally. Sirius's Authority is passive, metaphysical, and doesn’t require the user or victim to consciously interact with it. Od is not used like chakra to form techniques or enhance physical abilities—it’s a structural anchor to one's soul, not a power system in the same way chakra is.

The Od is one live force in the Re zero verse right? So is Chakra and just because it can be manipulated to be used for attacks doesn’t disqualify it from being a metaphysical energy that anchors one to the living realm. The fact that chakra can connect to metaphysical dimensions also solidifies it nature as one

That’s true within Naruto’s internal logic, but again, you’re assuming the function is the same, not just the themes. Re:Zero and Naruto treat soul-emotion-mind connections very differently. The way Sirius’s Authority uses Od creates an involuntary metaphysical link that connects multiple people to a shared emotion-soul field, which auto-triggers on awareness. Chakra links don’t function like this, they require technique use, specific contact, or jutsu casting. You can’t assume Naruto’s resistances cover passive metaphysical links just because chakra has some spiritual applications.

The only difference I am seeing here is that one is passive and the other needs contact. So the resistances still stands, just because one of the abilities is passive doesn’t make it superior potentcy wise to one that is not

This is an oversimplification. Normal civilians can’t use chakra, but it’s still a known, studied, trainable energy that’s stored in the body and released via tenketsu points. Chakra is treated like a life force that can be extracted, sealed, molded, sensed, and enhanced.

This is after hags come in and taught people of the existence of chakra, before that chakra was basically not known, sensed or seen. They were like us in irl using weapons instead of chakra.

This like saying a ghost is not metaphysical cuz it can move things around and be detected by emfs

Od is not that. Od is invisible, not used for combat or energy techniques, and most people don’t even know it exists until they’re dying. You can’t equate “invisible energy” with “metaphysical structural anchor” just because both are invisible to civilians. They play completely different roles in their respective verses.

The roles are the same in both verse in that they act as the life force for their respective verses. The only thing that is different is that one can be manipulated and formed into anything that the user sees fit, while the other can’t. Which is also not true as Serius is using Od to passively connect with other to use her authority and transfer damage. The ability itself is contradicting the very nature of what your statements entails

You’re proving the distinction here. Chakra can be sensed, stored, suppressed, and condensed into matter (like Rasengan or Tailed Beast forms). That already makes it fundamentally different from Od, which doesn’t form constructs or energy attacks. It’s not a spiritual battery or a moldable energy—it’s more like a metaphysical bloodstream that reflects emotional/soul state. Sirius weaponizes that structure, not the energy flow.

Just because re zero peps can’t manipulate their life force and not see it doesn’t mean it automatically disqualifies chakra from being similar to Od. Both have the same functions, have almost identical compositions and functions. The only problem is that one group can manipulate theirs while the other can’t manipulate or see it

So no, chakra ≠ Od. And because Itachi’s resistances are chakra/genjutsu-specific, not structure-based, he has no feats that suggest he'd resist being pulled into an Od-linked emotional-soul network the moment Sirius is perceived.

Itachi resistance is chakra based true, but is doesn’t take away the fact that she still is manipulating the mind and soul which he is resistant. Doesn’t matter the medium by which he does it, what matters is that he can. Furthermore Od and chakra are not that different, the only difference is that one party uses it to attack while the other doesn’t know it exsistance, a minor difference if you ask me

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

You know what, i can go on and on but i will just drop this line here:

They had just heard it from Clind’s mouth, but both Petra and “Subaru” were familiar with the word “Authority” and its more sinister significance. It was a word that had been uttered by the Sin Archbishop of Sloth, and by the Witch of Greed who slumbered in her tomb .The manifestation of a formidable right which allowed one to interfere with the nature of this world, to overturn concepts, to selfishly paint over those laws.

Itachi cant deal with concept slop currently, this also not the only time its been mentioned. You can waste your time if you want to but Authorities are generally going to be more abstract in nature anyways so it doesnt matter

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

You know what, i can go on and on but i will just drop this line here:


Itachi cant deal with concept slop currently, this also not the only time its been mentioned. You can waste your time if you want to but Authorities are generally going to be more abstract in nature anyways so it doesnt matter

sounds like hype to me and also this is greed and sloth which is not relavent to this thread

 

[Arcker123]

Genjutsu GG coccession

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

sounds like hype to me and also this is greed and sloth which is not relavent to this thread

"The Od is synonymous with the mind and soul, a power that defines an individuals existence in the world such as their memories, name, elemental character, destiny, and even the shape of their vessel "
-Julius, arc 6

Memories and Name are abstract concepts that can be stolen from your Od btw, Destiny is fate itself, and changing the od will change the shape of the vessel as well. Od is just wayyy more abstract in nature to be compared here

With his time stopped, Regulus is unable to experience change. Lion's Heart makes Regulus immune to effects from all physical phenomena, granting him the ultimate liberation from all concepts.

Subaru's ability allow him to twist destiny and break through inescapable fates

Can't find the quote for it but Subaru also mentioned in arc 6 how Authorities manipulate concepts, anyways conceptual manipulation already exists in the verse for a lot of characters at this point so it wouldnt be an outlier either

For why i am mentioning different archbishops; they are all using authorities, the overall premise of an authority does not change

 

[Arcker123]

Next to do Itachi V Daphne/

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Next to do Itachi V Daphne/

she also has madness hax via her authority which means her shit would also be conceptual

Also i dont think Itachi has any resistance to madness hax specifically, which you cant resist by resisting mind manipulation

 

[Arcker123]

she also has madness hax via her authority which means her shit would also be conceptual

Also i dont think Itachi has any resistance to madness hax specifically, which you cant resist by resisting mind manipulation

She needs to take off her blindfold in order to do that correct?

 

[karo_senpaii]

OD does not need to be equalised with anything. Unless there is something special aside from the application which the character specifically uses it for which in this case is mind and soul manipulation then the rest point is mute. Anyone who has resistance resist it. Unless there is something conceptual about it which would mean conceptual manipulation should be on her profile then no you can't just say "Itachi resist chakra based soul and mind manipulation only" and won't resist hers. It doesn't work like that , if it did then literally no one will have resistance to any ability cross verse.

Your point of layers still stand though but I still have issues.


1. Yes her authority is passive but it doesn't mean anything she does there is also passive. I'll give an example. Eida in boruto has passive emphatic manipulation meaning even if she isn't aware no one can harm her.. but if she wants to control you to do something she has to tell you. She is not controlling the mind of someone to do something while she is sleeping and the person is near her. The person just can't attack her and is in love with her.


What am I trying to say. Yes her authority passively links there emotions and yes if you attack her even if she wasn't aware the injuries are transferred but for her to the mind and soul part does she still has to actively simplify their emotions or pass emotions to the person or something like that. You're supporter which is why I am asking you to explain better.

Everyone in a city was under her authority. Now did the whole city just go mad? Or still specific people she targeted even though everyone was still technically subject to her authority?

 

[Rocker1189]

she also has madness hax via her authority which means her shit would also be conceptual

Also i dont think Itachi has any resistance to madness hax specifically, which you cant resist by resisting mind manipulation

madness is a subset of mind manipulation as it is based on manipulating the mind.

Also itachi has it anyway:

• Fear Manipulation, Empathic Manipulation, Madness Manipulation (Type 2)

 

[Phsccarvalho]

From what I'm seeing in the profiles, OD is only accepted and treated as soul/mind, no concepts.

So why are conceptual things being talked about here?

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

snip

its simpler to put it this way, think of being under her influence as an automatic SI, so even though Subaru knew she was an archbishop and despite his hatred for them he was still agreeing with her. Now whatever she does after this depends on her but itachi would effectively be neutralized as an opponent ( i know for a fact SBA wont give him the kind of hatred Subaru holds for Archbishops fr )

She needs to take off her blindfold in order to do that correct?

So she has a passive layered one which makes people go insane, its type 3 i believe. The other one is her eyes, in which the weaker one was enough to make Subaru spiral into hunger so intense he ate his own hand and the right eye which is the more powerful one was apparently smth not even Echidna could resist

I dont think she would have her blindfold or restraint on because that scenario in the witches tea party was her specifically holding back so Subaru doesnt go insane (we know witches were walking calamities and that wouldnt be the case for Daphne if she actually did walk around with restraints on all the time)

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

From what I'm seeing in the profiles, OD is only accepted and treated as soul/mind, no concepts.

So why are conceptual things being talked about here?

Authorities have conceptual stuff

Od also has more abstract stuff than just soul/mind, i have sent all the scans and statements above

 

[karo_senpaii]

its simpler to put it this way, think of being under her influence as an automatic SI, so even though Subaru knew she was an archbishop and despite his hatred for them he was still agreeing with her. Now whatever she does after this depends on her but itachi would effectively be neutralized as an opponent ( i know for a fact SBA wont give him the kind of hatred Subaru holds for Archbishops fr )


So she has a passive layered one which makes people go insane, its type 3 i believe. The other one is her eyes, in which the weaker one was enough to make Subaru spiral into hunger so intense he ate his own hand and the right eye which is the more powerful one was apparently smth not even Echidna could resist

I dont think she would have her blindfold or restraint on because that scenario in the witches tea party was her specifically holding back so Subaru doesnt go insane (we know witches were walking calamities and that wouldnt be the case for Daphne if she actually did walk around with restraints on all the time)

Is the layer tied to everything?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Authorities have conceptual stuff

Od also has more abstract stuff than just soul/mind, i have sent all the scans and statements above

There is literally no CM on Sirius or others that have authorities like Regulus, so why should it matter when it's not even in the profiles?

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

There is literally no CM on Sirius or others that have authorities like Regulus, so why should it matter when it's not even in the profiles?

It’s already accepted on Regulus’s profile, and the more recent statements only reinforce that precedent. Conceptual manipulation has also been approved on several other pages — it wouldn’t make sense to selectively ignore it here. If there’s still doubt, you could always put this and Daphne’s matchups on hold until the CRT finalizes.


That said, the mechanics behind Od have long since been accepted. Given how abstract it is, it still results in a stomp in Sirius’s favor


anything else?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

It’s already accepted on Regulus’s profile, and the more recent statements only reinforce that precedent. Conceptual manipulation has also been approved on several other pages — it wouldn’t make sense to selectively ignore it here. If there’s still doubt, you could always put this and Daphne’s matchups on hold until the CRT finalizes.

Wasn't it? Just because the justification is there does not mean that any interpretation of that justification has been accepted. For example, Regulus's type 4 acausality was removed from his profile, and is currently almost treated as a self-stop of common time despite the justification not having been changed, so having that interpretation is rejected at the moment (this part is so unindexed in the profile that even the part of the text that uses this scan talking about getting rid of concepts isn't even mentioned in the justification itself). The justification mentioning concepts doesn't matter if that power wasn't accepted and indexed in the profile.

Other characters in the verse have CM for different reasons. For example Cecil and Theresie who have CM for reasons unrelated to Authorities or Od.

No Authority in the verse automatically gains CM, this doesn't even exist in Sirius or Regulus' profile.

No character has AE1/CM2 for their OD, and no character has CM2 to be able to destroy someone's OD, otherwise guys like Regulus would have that in their profile and not just NPI.

So either you make all of this accepted, or if it was accepted, you do the correct indexing in the profiles, because that doesn't matter until it is indexed.

 

[Rocker1189]

It’s already accepted on Regulus’s profile, and the more recent statements only reinforce that precedent. Conceptual manipulation has also been approved on several other pages — it wouldn’t make sense to selectively ignore it here. If there’s still doubt, you could always put this and Daphne’s matchups on hold until the CRT finalizes.

There is no CM on his profile though? And I still see no evidence that Itachi goes insane from KM away.

That said, the mechanics behind Od have long since been accepted. Given how abstract it is, it still results in a stomp in Sirius’s favor

With CM anywhere on any profile we can not just take your word for it

 

[Arcker123]

I dont think she would have her blindfold or restraint on because that scenario in the witches tea party was her specifically holding back so Subaru doesnt go insane (we know witches were walking calamities and that wouldnt be the case for Daphne if she actually did walk around with restraints on all the time)

Her ability description seems to imply this

 

[Arcker123]

Bump.

What can be concluded here for non smurf

 

[Arcker123]

Bump.

What can be concluded here for non smurf

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Wasn't it? Just because the justification is there does not mean that any interpretation of that justification has been accepted. For example, Regulus's type 4 acausality was removed from his profile, and is currently almost treated as a self-stop of common time despite the justification not having been changed, so having that interpretation is rejected at the moment (this part is so unindexed in the profile that even the part of the text that uses this scan talking about getting rid of concepts isn't even mentioned in the justification itself). The justification mentioning concepts doesn't matter if that power wasn't accepted and indexed in the profile.

Meh, I was holding that specific discussion out, Type 4 wasnt removed because it wasnt accepted but rather because it was to be discussed further if it was type 4 or type 5. The statements speak for themselves and Tappei just keeps on piling more evidence on top of the already constructed/built upon structure

But i wouldnt want this matchup to dwelve into becoming another Regulus discussion thread (Because lets be real how many of those have we had already)

Other characters in the verse have CM for different reasons. For example Cecil and Theresie who have CM for reasons unrelated to Authorities or Od.

This is missing the entire point of my argument which is that cm isnt an outlier in the verse. Also, Volcanica has it for magic, Satella will also have it for magic, Reid has it for ******* being too skilled

All of those systems have been confirmed to be below Authorities (Except maybe Reid because he is built diff)

No character has AE1/CM2 for their OD, and no character has CM2 to be able to destroy someone's OD, otherwise guys like Regulus would have that in their profile and not just NPI.

Moot point, I never even mentioned AE1. If you really want to see it so much on Regulus's profile then wait for a few days OR bring attention to that CRT yourself

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Bump.

What can be concluded here for non smurf

Currently, Itachi does not seem to have a way around SIrius's passive authority

I will seemingly add the abstract stuff later, its just the profiling which is left imo

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Meh, I was holding that specific discussion out, Type 4 wasnt removed because it wasnt accepted but rather because it was to be discussed further if it was type 4 or type 5. The statements speak for themselves and Tappei just keeps on piling more evidence on top of the already constructed/built upon structure

But i wouldnt want this matchup to dwelve into becoming another Regulus discussion thread (Because lets be real how many of those have we had already)

The downgrade OP proposed removal on the grounds that the justifications were not sufficient for type 4, it was accepted and removed.

This is missing the entire point of my argument which is that cm isnt an outlier in the verse. Also, Volcanica has it for magic, Satella will also have it for magic, Reid has it for ******* being too skilled

All of those systems have been confirmed to be below Authorities (Except maybe Reid because he is built diff)

I don't care if it's outlier or not, it doesn't even matter. What matters is that it's not in any of those profiles, so it doesn't matter what you say, if it's not in the profile it can't be used.

If you want CM authorities or CM Soul, make a crt and put it in the profiles.

Moot point, I never even mentioned AE1. If you really want to see it so much on Regulus's profile then wait for a few days OR bring attention to that CRT yourself

You're the one arguing that characters that don't have CM in their profile have CM, you're the one who has to make a CRT, not me.

 

[Arcker123]

Currently, Itachi does not seem to have a way around SIrius's passive authority

Does anyone else believe this?

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Does anyone else believe this?

No

 

[Arcker123]

Votes are like 4-1 rn officially