JJK AP Upgrade Staff

[KingTempest]

I’m not responding to this for a little while cause I just skimmed over it and it was a lot of nonsense so y’all can evaluate with what is said

 

[CloverDragon03]

Where was that decided? Not doubting you or anything, but I’ve seen some stuff by Aagna that uses this same method and is currently accepted.

From the Black Hole Feats in Fiction page, I got this excerpt:

"Things inside the event horizon aren't hit by the energy. Instead, they are hit by the particles that fall into a black hole, which according to the theory of Hawking radiation carry negative energy. So surviving a collapse while inside the black hole serves as a resistance feat for negative energy, but can not be viewed as a feat for common durability."

 

[Arkenis]

From the Black Hole Feats in Fiction page, I got this excerpt:

The feat isn't of him in the BH, its him outside.

 

[Da3ggman]

From the Black Hole Feats in Fiction page, I got this excerpt:

This got explained by Seiji.

 

[CloverDragon03]

This got explained by Seiji.

Your link doesn't work

 

[CloverDragon03]

The feat isn't of him in the BH, its him outside.

The event horizon is not just inside the black hole, it's the point around it where light can no longer escape

 

[Da3ggman]

Your link doesn't work

****, I can’t show it through quoting for some reason; just go to the previous page, it’s like, the 5th message.

 

[KingTempest]

the key part of that is "when approaching the singularity (the center of the black hole)"
you could orbit a black hole or just straight up leave its pull if you can produce more force than its gravity is exerting on you

i don't really have an opinion on anything otherwise i just wanted to mention that part

 

[PowerToScale]

Okay, so, as far as the Mechamaru and Inumaki feats are concerned, I'm in complete agreement with KT and SunDaGamer.
These feats lack the necessary narrative and visual support, and are simply not consistent at all. I won't harp on that point, however, since KT and Sun have already argued this stance extensively.

In regards to the BH feat, I'm still waiting for confirmation that it's good to go mathematically, logically, and is fully accepted by other CGMs before I say anything. I don't wanna argue one way or another, only for one of you calc nerds to then come and say "um, ACHSHUALLY it's rejected because XYZ "

As for the downgrades in the OP, they make sense.

Finally, in regards to Gojo's Earthquake calc, I vehemently disagree with the idea that it's an outlier for Gojo and Sukuna.
Like, as far as Gojo and Sukuna's feats themselves are concerned, stuff like Divine Flame and Hollow Purple falling short of the earthquake's value just doesn't matter whatsoever. Divine Flame is limited to a range of 200 meters due to the technique's mechanics. So it's potency scaling higher, even though it's sheer DC is limited by a binding vow is NOT an issue.
Hollow Purple is similar in the sense that Gojo is fully capable of, and more importantly willing to, limit the destructiveness of the technique to avoid collateral damage. With techniques like Red, Blue, and Purple, he almost always has specific targets in mind, and is never really aiming for wanton destruction.
So, in my personal view, a clearly pissed off Gojo performing a feat that's higher than his normal yield when he's his usual calm and collected, jovial self makes sense.

And as for it being an outlier because people below them have failed to produce feats on that level, this is even less relevant in my opinion. These two are the undisputed, unequivocal GOD TIERS of this verse, and it's really not close whatsoever. These are the guys who can canonically blitz and one-shot literally any of the verse's top tiers. These are the guys, who even when severely weakened and diminished, still need to subconsciously nerf themselves in order to not get bored to death from fighting the strongest people jujutsu society has to offer. These two are, in the simplest of terms, built different and Gege has hammered that idea home about as well as any author conceivably could.
So frankly, the verse's top tiers could be capped at 9-C for all I care, I still wouldn't view a 7-A rating as an outlier for these two. That's how I view that particular issue.

However, it seems like the 7-A calc's validity is being put into question as we speak, so I guess this whole spiel might be moot in any case. Regardless, I've made my feelings on the matter known from an in-verse scaling perspective, regardless of where the calc lands value wise.

I'll add some context to help understand the mechamaru cacl when i get back from work

 

[Dalesean027]

I'm in complete agreement with @KingTempest

Mechamaru's calc is currently doing the inverse of where we have to divide an over-time feat by its timeframe to get a usable value for a character's AP because we know a single attack from them can't scale to the complete destruction of whatever they were destroying. Now this isn't an issue because we actually have a tangible destruction feat being performed in the end. What you're doing is assuming each second of his CE is equal to his Ultra Cannon blast which isn't how that works and results in a super highballed result that isn't actually supported by any feats or scaling in the entire series.

Here's what his one year charge does:


Here's what his two year charge does:


Here's what his five year charge does:


None of these feats are anything above Tier 8 and trying to drag in another unaffiliated verse to make a flimsy argument just disappoints me. Dudes like Luffy actually have scaling and feats that place him at Tier 7 and above whereas you've essentially created a thought experiment that is blatantly contradicted by the source material for a character whose Tier 7 feats/scaling are non-existent. Count me as rejecting this.

He basically covered most of what I was planning on saying especially the part about how the original calc takes Mechamaru's Ultra Cannon which is something higher than what he can normally narrative it upscales him decently and the calc says that that's his average attack and energy per second his generates which is by all means false and misrepresentative of the technique. Even if you say its > is normal shit but is < 1 Year worth of charge we've seen what that one year of charge looks like and news flash I did the math literally all of those attacks that used years worth of time came out to being 9-A

Mechamaru Feat Compilation (Jujutsu Kaisen)

vsbattles.fandom.com

So at the very most if you wanna go by scaling logic and say logically these 9-A Ultra takes that take years of stored energy should at least upscale his non mech ultra technique to an unknown degree then you're just taking his actual 8-B value which is currently 12.2 tons and assuming it to downscale his 1 year output by an unknown degree which means you just multiply 12.2 * 5 to get a more accurate 61 Ton (City Block+) rating for the his absolute maximum not anything remotely close to being tier 7 let alone the 7-A shit you got which would be 7022404.05214x less than the 5 year attack you got using the 61 ton metric and if we go by the actual calculated yield for the 5 years of energy (the 9-A value) then the gap becomes 14769342913.4x. 14.769 Billion times of a difference...

 

[FinePoint]

@M3X_2.0
Be civil and don't derail, especially since this is a staff thread.
Telling other members to "shut the **** up" is extremely rude, and editing it into a picture doesn't make it any better.

 

[PowerToScale]

Okay, so, as far as the Mechamaru and Inumaki feats are concerned, I'm in complete agreement with KT and SunDaGamer.
These feats lack the necessary narrative and visual support, and are simply not consistent at all. I won't harp on that point, however, since KT and Sun have already argued this stance extensively.

Regarding the Mechamaru feat, I think it’s important to clarify a misconception I’ve seen pop up in discussions. The Ultra Cannon attack Mecha Mechamaru uses isn’t meant to represent his base or regular output. It’s explicitly a powered-up technique fueled by years of stockpiled cursed energy, something the narrative directly supports. The justification for this feat being at such a high level doesn’t come from speculative scaling or visual overreach. It comes straight from Kenjaku himself, one of the most knowledgeable and dangerous sorcerers in the series, with over a thousand years of experience. Kenjaku outright states that when Mechamaru channels all his accumulated energy into his attacks, those attacks reach a level comparable to special grade sorcerers like himself. That’s not conjecture, it’s a direct statement from a reliable, established authority within the narrative. Narratively, this makes perfect sense. Mechamaru’s entire character arc hinges on him being forced to accumulate cursed energy over years in isolation, compensating for his frail body by pouring everything into his mecha. It’s only logical that when he finally unleashes that stored power, it would be on par with the strongest in the series. Having someone as credible as Kenjaku confirm this also prevents it from being an outlier or unsupported high-end.

Now it terms of the method and value, the only thing mentioned by others is the usage of the regular ultra canon as base value and fail to mention how its not the only result, as seen on the calc and stated in my reply below, the use of the regular ultra canon is a high ball estimate and not the most conclusive one, the other two results are better reps of the true value, with boy showing no visible/if no curse energy usage at all:

The Mechamaru calc features three different end results, each based on a different interpretation of his energy output:

1. Ultra Cannon Output: This uses the energy from Mechamaru’s Ultra Cannon attack, the same move fired from his mecha, and converts it into a per-second rate, then scales it over the stated years of stored energy. It’s the most controversial result, as a charged beam isn’t necessarily reflective of his consistent, passive cursed energy output.
   
   
2. Physical Attack Energy: This calculation uses the energy demonstrated by Mechamaru’s physical strikes, which are a much clearer indicator of his regular, moment-to-moment output rather than a charged special attack. This makes it a better proxy for his baseline energy expenditure.
   
   
3. Gravitational Potential Energy (GPE): This uses the gravitational potential energy of Mechamaru’s mecha body itself, the energy it possesses simply due to its size and position within a gravitational field. This method is useful for assessing the potential and passive energy state of large constructs like the robot, independent of attacks. This the same method outlined by the wiki to use for passive energy of large beings.

In my opinion, the most reliable options are the Physical Attack Energy and GPE approaches. Both more directly represent Mechamaru’s sustained, passive, or typical energy output and align better with narrative evidence showing his massive energy pool having no visible effects to it.

Outside of the narrative support of the feat, the only other matter of the feat is the portrayal of destruction, as pointed out by Sun and some others, however, this isn't a good argument as scale, power, destruction can be controlled in JJK like most battle manga, since even the wiki recognizes that DC =/= AP. Out of all three ends of the calc, The third version using the GPE is the best in my opinion, as it is used in the wiki for large size beings and the natural energy it would produce.
___

The event horizon is not just inside the black hole, it's the point around it where light can no longer escape

Tagging Clover just so he can see.
I think there’s been some misunderstanding about what this calc is actually doing and how it fits within the black hole feat rules. This isn’t a durability or survivability feat involving the singularity or event horizon at all, he’s caught in the gravitational pull before reaching it. The calculation itself uses a difference in gravitational potential energy (PE) between two points, the position Kenjaku was initially at when the pull started, and the point he resists and halts himself. This method was directly outlined and suggested by both Agnaa and DontTalkDT as the appropriate way to quantify feats like this: finding the energy needed to stop movement over a distance against a gravitational force, not surviving inside a black hole. It doesn’t attempt to calc durability against infinite tidal forces or surviving an event horizon collapse, which is what the VS Battles black hole feat policy prohibits. It strictly measures the finite, external force exerted on his body and the energy required to resist it over a brief movement, still valid calc within the system.
___

1

2

there seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding about how attack potency relates to destructive capacity and how scaling works on VSBW. AP isn’t always directly tied to the amount of visible destruction an attack causes. The Wiki’s own Attack Potency page explains that an attack’s potency measures the energy or force it can exert, regardless of how much environmental damage it leaves behind. In Jujutsu Kaisen, many techniques deliver concentrated or nuanced damage rather than widespread destruction, meaning AP can be significantly higher than what the visuals suggest. While the high-end use Mechamaru’s Ultra Cannon as a high-end scaling point, it’s important to note that this isn’t the only, or necessarily the most accurate, measure. The other feats showing his one-year, two-year, or five-year charged attacks better represent his typical output and are more reliable for scaling his standard attack potency. The Ultra Cannon is a useful peak attack reference, but it’s more of a high-end outlier rather than a baseline. The Wiki routinely allows for upscaling and downscaling based on feat context, narrative cues, and known timeframes, as long as it’s reasonable and clearly communicated. So, considering his charged attacks over multiple years, it’s fair to logically upscale his output within a tier or two while acknowledging the uncertainty in precise scaling. Plus if we look at every page/verse, they all would have 100 super low end calcs out weighing everything else. Dismissing these calculations overlooks the established relationship between Attack Potency and visible destruction on the site, as well as the importance of narrative and contextual scaling, as well as the importance of narrative and contextual scaling. Accurate scaling often requires considering indirect evidence and the broader implications of a character’s abilities, rather than relying solely on raw visible damage.

@FinePoint @SeijiSetto @UchihaSlayer96

Just @ with the crt those who have interacted so they can have better understanding also ask questions

 

[Dalesean027]

Regarding the Mechamaru feat, I think it’s important to clarify a misconception I’ve seen pop up in discussions. The Ultra Cannon attack Mecha Mechamaru uses isn’t meant to represent his base or regular output. It’s explicitly a powered-up technique fueled by years of stockpiled cursed energy, something the narrative directly supports. The justification for this feat being at such a high level doesn’t come from speculative scaling or visual overreach. It comes straight from Kenjaku himself, one of the most knowledgeable and dangerous sorcerers in the series, with over a thousand years of experience. Kenjaku outright states that when Mechamaru channels all his accumulated energy into his attacks, those attacks reach a level comparable to special grade sorcerers like himself. That’s not conjecture, it’s a direct statement from a reliable, established authority within the narrative. Narratively, this makes perfect sense. Mechamaru’s entire character arc hinges on him being forced to accumulate cursed energy over years in isolation, compensating for his frail body by pouring everything into his mecha. It’s only logical that when he finally unleashes that stored power, it would be on par with the strongest in the series. Having someone as credible as Kenjaku confirm this also prevents it from being an outlier or unsupported high-end.

Now it terms of the method and value, the only thing mentioned by others is the usage of the regular ultra canon as base value and fail to mention how its not the only result, as seen on the calc and stated in my reply below, the use of the regular ultra canon is a high ball estimate and not the most conclusive one, the other two results are better reps of the true value, with boy showing no visible/if no curse energy usage at all:



Outside of the narrative support of the feat, the only other matter of the feat is the portrayal of destruction, as pointed out by Sun and some others, however, this isn't a good argument as scale, power, destruction can be controlled in JJK like most battle manga, since even the wiki recognizes that DC =/= AP. Out of all three ends of the calc, The third version using the GPE is the best in my opinion, as it is used in the wiki for large size beings and the natural energy it would produce.
___


Tagging Clover just so he can see.
I think there’s been some misunderstanding about what this calc is actually doing and how it fits within the black hole feat rules. This isn’t a durability or survivability feat involving the singularity or event horizon at all, he’s caught in the gravitational pull before reaching it. The calculation itself uses a difference in gravitational potential energy (PE) between two points, the position Kenjaku was initially at when the pull started, and the point he resists and halts himself. This method was directly outlined and suggested by both Agnaa and DontTalkDT as the appropriate way to quantify feats like this: finding the energy needed to stop movement over a distance against a gravitational force, not surviving inside a black hole. It doesn’t attempt to calc durability against infinite tidal forces or surviving an event horizon collapse, which is what the VS Battles black hole feat policy prohibits. It strictly measures the finite, external force exerted on his body and the energy required to resist it over a brief movement, still valid calc within the system.
___



there seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding about how attack potency relates to destructive capacity and how scaling works on VSBW. AP isn’t always directly tied to the amount of visible destruction an attack causes. The Wiki’s own Attack Potency page explains that an attack’s potency measures the energy or force it can exert, regardless of how much environmental damage it leaves behind. In Jujutsu Kaisen, many techniques deliver concentrated or nuanced damage rather than widespread destruction, meaning AP can be significantly higher than what the visuals suggest. While the high-end use Mechamaru’s Ultra Cannon as a high-end scaling point, it’s important to note that this isn’t the only, or necessarily the most accurate, measure. The other feats showing his one-year, two-year, or five-year charged attacks better represent his typical output and are more reliable for scaling his standard attack potency. The Ultra Cannon is a useful peak attack reference, but it’s more of a high-end outlier rather than a baseline. The Wiki routinely allows for upscaling and downscaling based on feat context, narrative cues, and known timeframes, as long as it’s reasonable and clearly communicated. So, considering his charged attacks over multiple years, it’s fair to logically upscale his output within a tier or two while acknowledging the uncertainty in precise scaling. Plus if we look at every page/verse, they all would have 100 super low end calcs out weighing everything else. Dismissing these calculations overlooks the established relationship between Attack Potency and visible destruction on the site, as well as the importance of narrative and contextual scaling, as well as the importance of narrative and contextual scaling. Accurate scaling often requires considering indirect evidence and the broader implications of a character’s abilities, rather than relying solely on raw visible damage.

@FinePoint @SeijiSetto @UchihaSlayer96

Just @ with the crt those who have interacted so they can have better understanding also ask questions

Already addressed this with with my post which you actually did not even comment anything I said either and ran for AP vs DC which I already commented on, I've weighed in my opinions on how that'd be more correctly handled in this case

He basically covered most of what I was planning on saying especially the part about how the original calc takes Mechamaru's Ultra Cannon which is something higher than what he can normally narrative it upscales him decently and the calc says that that's his average attack and energy per second his generates which is by all means false and misrepresentative of the technique. Even if you say its > is normal shit but is < 1 Year worth of charge we've seen what that one year of charge looks like and news flash I did the math literally all of those attacks that used years worth of time came out to being 9-A

Mechamaru Feat Compilation (Jujutsu Kaisen)

vsbattles.fandom.com

So at the very most if you wanna go by scaling logic and say logically these 9-A Ultra takes that take years of stored energy should at least upscale his non mech ultra technique to an unknown degree then you're just taking his actual 8-B value which is currently 12.2 tons and assuming it to downscale his 1 year output by an unknown degree which means you just multiply 12.2 * 5 to get a more accurate 61 Ton (City Block+) rating for the his absolute maximum not anything remotely close to being tier 7 let alone the 7-A shit you got which would be 7022404.05214x less than the 5 year attack you got using the 61 ton metric and if we go by the actual calculated yield for the 5 years of energy (the 9-A value) then the gap becomes 14769342913.4x. 14.769 Billion times of a difference...

 

[Keshirou]

So at the very most if you wanna go by scaling logic and say logically these 9-A Ultra takes that take years of stored energy should at least upscale his non mech ultra technique to an unknown degree then you're just taking his actual 8-B value which is currently 12.2 tons and assuming it to downscale his 1 year output by an unknown degree which means you just multiply 12.2 * 5 to get a more accurate 61 Ton (City Block+) rating for the his absolute maximum not anything remotely close to being tier 7 let alone the 7-A shit you got which would be 7022404.05214x less than the 5 year attack you got using the 61 ton metric and if we go by the actual calculated yield for the 5 years of energy (the 9-A value) then the gap becomes 14769342913.4x. 14.769 Billion times of a difference...

I dont understad you. Why difference is matter, when you literallly accepting 7-A KE feats, which actually shown 8-B destructions. Its 10.6 million times of difference, but you accepted it. And its used in scaling. You even accepted it in scaling too. Why mechamaru's calc shouldnt be used then? Similar calc with over million times of difference accepted and used. Why then this is different, or special case?
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...ng_Speed_and_KE?commentId=4400000000003732633

Chainsaw Man: The Mega CRT

Damn..... This is so long....

vsbattles.com

And its scaling from weaker character to stronger and no one from staff said that its an outlier and blah blah, like in this thread, when feat made up by STRONGEST character in series and scales TO ONLY HIM and Sukuna.
And using 9-A calc to argue something is funny. Dude, did you really think that 1 random blast that he can use multiple times in a day is hundreds or even thousands time stronger than his YEARS worth storage? Its already illogical.
Its not scaling to low tiers, Mechamaru's calc scales to only him in Absolute mode and to Special Grades and who is on par with them.

 

[Dalesean027]

I dont understad you. Why difference is matter, when you literallly accepting 7-A KE feats, which actually shown 8-B destructions. Its 10.6 million times of difference, but you accepted it. And its used in scaling. You even accepted it in scaling too. Why mechamaru's calc shouldnt be used then? Similar calc with over million times of difference accepted and used. Why then this is different, or special case?
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...ng_Speed_and_KE?commentId=4400000000003732633

Chainsaw Man: The Mega CRT

Damn..... This is so long....

vsbattles.com

1) two different verses with two different precents where in context the 7-A KE feat in question is from a character who narratively upscales one of the verse high tiers who performs 7-B feats from simply moving with the gap in stats only being a 10x difference between their values which works as support
2) Mechamaru’s calc and Yoru's are fundamentally different in every way one is a KE calc the other is usung faulty premise to upscale massively while ignorning narrative context.

And using 9-A calc to argue something is funny. Dude, did you really think that 1 random blast that he can use multiple times in a day is hundreds or even thousands time stronger than his YEARS worth storage? Its already illogical.

Nope if you read what I said and put on your thinking cap you see I gave the appropriate solution and addressed this

He basically covered most of what I was planning on saying especially the part about how the original calc takes Mechamaru's Ultra Cannon which is something higher than what he can normally narrative it upscales him decently and the calc says that that's his average attack and energy per second his generates which is by all means false and misrepresentative of the technique

Read again here

So at the very most if you wanna go by scaling logic and say logically these 9-A Ultra takes that take years of stored energy should at least upscale his non mech ultra technique to an unknown degree then you're just taking his actual 8-B value which is currently 12.2 tons and assuming it to downscale his 1 year output by an unknown degree which means you just multiply 12.2 * 5 to get a more accurate 61 Ton (City Block+) rating for the his absolute maximum not anything remotely close to being tier 7 let alone the 7-A shit you got which would be 7022404.05214x less than the 5 year attack you got using the 61 ton metric

And here, notice how I say if we want go by the logic of upscaling his 12.2 ton feat for this and then show how it could work in a more valid way while subsequently explaining why the original calc has faults


Also this is a staff thread and I don't see that you got permission to comment

 

[Keshirou]

1) two different verses with two different precents where in context the 7-A KE feat in question is from a character who narratively upscales one of the verse high tiers who performs 7-B feats from simply moving with the gap in stats only being a 10x difference between their values which works as support

That's a problem already. 7-B KE, via 7-C destructions. Big gap between them. Which also by your logic will be invalidated.
And Mechamaru same guy, who's years worth CE release is on par with Special Grades by Kenjaku statement. Mechamaru's Mode Absolute years blasts = Special Grade sorcerers. Uraume performs 7-C feats via ice creation and Mechamaru years release is at same lvl AT LEAST by Kenjaku statement. Mai creation feats (which accepted) is High 7-C to 7-B, its supporting Mechamaru's 7-B to 7-A years worth release. And im not saying that its same verse, nor same method for calc is used.
Let me explain: You saying that Mechamaru's feat isnt valid, because the big gap between DESTRUCTION SHOWN and energy calced via CE output., IGNORING supporting feats with Uraume's ice (7-C) and Mai's creation a bullet (High 7-C) and Katana (7-B).
Also ignored Jogo's meteor at 7-B lvl.
And you ignored my point via supporting feat, assuming that Mechamaru doesnt have any from other character, which is wrong.
I used same logic as yours and invalidated 7-A KE feat, because destructions (8-B) doesnt match with KE (7-A) and its 10.6 millions times of difference, yet you accepted it.
Both feats have different values between calced energy and actual destructions, both feats have support with other feats and narratively have a support.
1st feat is invalidated by you and at the same time 2nd feat is accepted as a calc and for scaling.

2) Mechamaru’s calc and Yoru's are fundamentally different in every way one is a KE calc

I never said that they're similar in terms of calcing.

the other is usung faulty premise to upscale massively while ignorning narrative context.

What narrative context is ignored? Kenjaku stated that Mechamaru's charges at Special Grade lvl. Comparing his regular blasts to invalidate Special Grade lvl blasts is already wrong.

 

[KingTempest]

Some of y’all aren’t even staff and some of y’all didn’t even get permission to speak here yet you have more comments than most staff here and I’m confused on why

 

[Dalesean027]

You saying that Mechamaru's feat isnt valid, because the big gap between DESTRUCTION SHOWN and energy calced via CE outpu

That is in fact not what I said but thanks for commenting here without permission talking about shit I never said. The problem with the calc is that it uses the value for Mechamaru's ultimate cannon his blast he literally charges up of concentracted cursed energy that is higher than what he is normally capable of, it uses that as his regular energy he generates per second which as I said numerous times

other is using faulty premise to upscale massively while ignorning narrative context.

And here, notice how I say if we want go by the logic of upscaling his 12.2 ton feat for this and then show how it could work in a more valid way while subsequently explaining why the original calc has faults

You seem to be conveniently ignoring this fact and the fact that I already said what the appropriate solution here would be.

Unless Mechamaru is shooting his ultra cannon at full potency like this then it was always be a faulty premise to use it as the amount of energy he produces per second

Also take this as your warning, this is a staff thread do not comment without permission

 

[KingTempest]

For all we know his ultimate cannon might be like 10 minutes worth of energy or an hour

 

[FinePoint]

@FinePoint

Just @ with the crt those who have interacted so they can have better understanding also ask questions

I'm not knowledgeable on the verse, and it seems like multiple other staff who are are already participating, so I probably won't get involved in the revision itself.

However, I will continue to monitor the thread and deal with derailing or inappropriate comments. For example, there has already been plenty of warning, so I will simply delete any new comments made by non-staff without permission, and encourage others to do the same.

 

[GunshyFever]

I got permission to speak here, in order to briefly express this.

Dale already addressed it but there is actually more reason behind the feats validation in question. And is a bad example to use for your case.

The Gun Goddess feat itself is a KE feat, where it is an intercontinental bullet traveling from NYC to Japan in a whiff, now Kinetic Energy feats are not subject to the destruction calc that your talking about.

From the K.E feats page:

• Keep in mind that this destruction should be compared to the energy lost by the object during the event. A ball travelling at relativistic speeds creating a hole its size, and continuing to move at nearly the same speed afterwards, would not be considered a contradiction. While a similar feat, with the ball falling to the ground a few meters afterwards, would be cause for concern.

The bullet follows what is said above. We do not require for KE to produce the same level of destruction in order to qualify as KE. We just need to be sure that a object's energy is indeed meant to come from KE. The bullet destroyed and went through every object it came into contact with. These are the words of a CGM @TheRustyOne who already addressed the feat here.

Among that Chainsaw Man actually has extremely close scaling, every character climbing to a respective teir in order.

 

[Tago238]

She increases her own mass, technically she's the singularity(or at least it will happen inside her). So at that moment, it can't be a Black Hole as singularity didn't form yet (if it had formed, she would get affected by infinite gravity, she couldn't be staying normal, talk etc for a while as her resistance is irrelevant against infinite gravity).

We already covered she was bisected by this point and the black hole seemed to be emerging from her lower half. She may have been yapping while part of her body was consumed by the black hole’s event horizon but that’s irrelevant to the point here, the tidal forces anywhere other than the singularity are not infinite (though this isn’t a very rigorous description of how the metric inside the event horizon works but).

Anyway, the primary issue with the rejection of the calc is that the black hole itself is obviously valid on many counts but the opponents of the last thread quibbled over stuff like “why isn’t Yuki dying immediately??? Clearly it was not a black hole at THIS point (it was only the next panel that it was)” and when you asked “well what was the expanding darkness preceding the larger event horizon in that panel then?” no coherent answers were provided.



CrimsonStarFallen gave me permission to reply here xxx.

 

[KingTempest]

For everyone who says "yadayadayada gave me permission", link it

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

For everyone who says "yadayadayada gave me permission", link it

I did. His imgur password is broken so he can't share screenshots now.

 

[Nierre]

so just a quick question

foe mechamaru's ultra cannon whatever (his strongest blast), kenjaku said that it's as strong as a special grade yeah? something like that?

where would his canon rating be in regards to that. where do the special grades scale?

 

[SunDaGamer]

there seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding about how attack potency relates to destructive capacity and how scaling works on VSBW. AP isn’t always directly tied to the amount of visible destruction an attack causes. The Wiki’s own Attack Potency page explains that an attack’s potency measures the energy or force it can exert, regardless of how much environmental damage it leaves behind. In Jujutsu Kaisen, many techniques deliver concentrated or nuanced damage rather than widespread destruction, meaning AP can be significantly higher than what the visuals suggest. While the high-end use Mechamaru’s Ultra Cannon as a high-end scaling point, it’s important to note that this isn’t the only, or necessarily the most accurate, measure. The other feats showing his one-year, two-year, or five-year charged attacks better represent his typical output and are more reliable for scaling his standard attack potency. The Ultra Cannon is a useful peak attack reference, but it’s more of a high-end outlier rather than a baseline. The Wiki routinely allows for upscaling and downscaling based on feat context, narrative cues, and known timeframes, as long as it’s reasonable and clearly communicated. So, considering his charged attacks over multiple years, it’s fair to logically upscale his output within a tier or two while acknowledging the uncertainty in precise scaling. Plus if we look at every page/verse, they all would have 100 super low end calcs out weighing everything else. Dismissing these calculations overlooks the established relationship between Attack Potency and visible destruction on the site, as well as the importance of narrative and contextual scaling, as well as the importance of narrative and contextual scaling. Accurate scaling often requires considering indirect evidence and the broader implications of a character’s abilities, rather than relying solely on raw visible damage.

AP=/=DC doesn't help your case here at all. It's used in cases where say a character doesn't have to create a nuclear explosion when he punches to ground in order to scale to 7-B because they can harm those who have 7-B durability because of their own scaling and support.

It doesn't exactly work when our character in question is using a big laser attack and then the feat you’re calcing and saying AP doesn’t equal DC are literally the same attack/feat. We know Mechamaru's blasts are hot since they instantly char wood and he says he'll burn Mahito to ashes then we got him using a 2 year charge blast to clear out a lake Mahito is hiding in which according to your calc should've vaporized the entire lake. And don't give me that AP=/=DC excuse when Mechamaru is literally using the DC of his blasts to flush Mahito out of hiding in the lake and he decides use up 2 entire years of charge for the task when he absolutely knows he should be saving some up to deal with Kenjaku next.

Also, multiple other staff members have already explained to you why attempting to drag in other verses that have completely different things going on within their scaling doesn't actually prove your point. Either you've missed important context and are gonna get fact checked by the supporters of that verse or that other verse will be getting downgraded.

I dont understad you. Why difference is matter, when you literallly accepting 7-A KE feats, which actually shown 8-B destructions. Its 10.6 million times of difference, but you accepted it. And its used in scaling. You even accepted it in scaling too. Why mechamaru's calc shouldnt be used then? Similar calc with over million times of difference accepted and used. Why then this is different, or special case?
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...ng_Speed_and_KE?commentId=4400000000003732633

Chainsaw Man: The Mega CRT

Damn..... This is so long....

vsbattles.com

And its scaling from weaker character to stronger and no one from staff said that its an outlier and blah blah, like in this thread, when feat made up by STRONGEST character in series and scales TO ONLY HIM and Sukuna.
And using 9-A calc to argue something is funny. Dude, did you really think that 1 random blast that he can use multiple times in a day is hundreds or even thousands time stronger than his YEARS worth storage? Its already illogical.
Its not scaling to low tiers, Mechamaru's calc scales to only him in Absolute mode and to Special Grades and who is on par with them.

That's a completely irrelevant and unrelated topic to this thread. Yoru's calc is just finding the KE of a bullet that travels from New York City to Japan within a short timeframe, the standard for KE calcs is that they can only become invalidated if it's a case like throwing a ball to the Moon at Relativistic speeds just for it to slow down as if air resistance has stopped it by the time it reaches it or if a ball was calced to have 7-A KE just for a single regular brick wall to completely stop its motion. The only reason why we wouldn't use the 8-C calcs to limit Mechamaru's blasts to that level is because he has scaling to Mahito (and his other small puppet) who is at least 8-B from scaling to other feats, if that support was gone then we would have to scale Mechamaru Mode: Absolute to 8-C based off his own destruction calcs. However, it is fair to then question a several million times jump that hoops through several tiers using a method that several staff members don't agree with, especially when supporting feats and showings don't go anywhere near that ballpark, it is naturally going to invite heavy scrutiny.

I also don't see any thread mod or admin giving you permission to comment on this thread.

 

[Dalesean027]

so just a quick question

foe mechamaru's ultra cannon whatever (his strongest blast), kenjaku said that it's as strong as a special grade yeah? something like that?

where would his canon rating be in regards to that. where do the special grades scale?

The Finger Bearers at 25.20 tons I believe

 

[SunDaGamer]

so just a quick question

foe mechamaru's ultra cannon whatever (his strongest blast), kenjaku said that it's as strong as a special grade yeah? something like that?

where would his canon rating be in regards to that. where do the special grades scale?

Special Grades currently scale to at minimum the 8-B feats that you can find on the verse page. The Finger Bearers are what I'd consider the baseline.

 

[Arkenis]

so just a quick question

foe mechamaru's ultra cannon whatever (his strongest blast), kenjaku said that it's as strong as a special grade yeah? something like that?

where would his canon rating be in regards to that. where do the special grades scale?

Special grade sorcerers can overthrow a country alone. If we take Kenjaku's statement to be in regards to special grades in general, special grade curses are above or maybe on par with cluster bombs. Thing is, special grades vary too much to apply it as a statement for all. If cgm and mods think the statement for overthrowing a country doesn't imply their strength should be bare minimum tier 7 then idk where we'd say they scale story wise.

 

[Dalesean027]

Special grade sorcerers can overthrow a country alone. If we take Kenjaku's statement to be in regards to special grades in general, special grade curses are above or maybe on par with cluster bombs. Thing is, special grades vary too much to apply it as a statement for all. If cgm and mods think the statement for overthrowing a country doesn't imply their strength should be bare minimum tier 7 then idk where we'd say they scale story wise.

Irl cluster bombs are 9-B to 9-A btw...its just a bunch of individual explosions

 

[KingTempest]

Special grade sorcerers can overthrow a country alone. If we take Kenjaku's statement to be in regards to special grades in general, special grade curses are above or maybe on par with cluster bombs. Thing is, special grades vary too much to apply it as a statement for all. If cgm and mods think the statement for overthrowing a country doesn't imply their strength should be bare minimum tier 7 then idk where we'd say they scale story wise.

3 10-B goons can overthrow a country in a night. What are we talking about.

 

[SunDaGamer]

If cgm and mods think the statement for overthrowing a country doesn't imply their strength should be bare minimum tier 7 then idk where we'd say they scale story wise.

Hard disagree, we don't just hand out tiers at this level willy-nilly:

Tiers between 9-A and 3-B, even those which do correspond with their namesakes, should not be assigned unless there are accepted calculations, multipliers, and/or reliably stated precise Joule values that correspond with those ratings, as many verses can have their own context result in these feats being above or below their namesakes. The exceptions are that the lower borders of 5-C, Low 5-B, 5-B, 5-A, High 5-A, 4-C, 4-B, 4-A, 3-C, and 3-B can be considered standard calculations for destroying a moon, a small planet, a planet, a large planet, a brown dwarf, a common star, a solar system, two or more solar systems, a galaxy, and two or more galaxies respectively, and adding those tiers based on those specific feats is allowed. However, it is still greatly preferable to use much more exact accepted calculations for individual feats of these natures.

If we really want to stretch it, a Transonic dude with 8-B physicals could run the pockets of any military or government in the world

 

[SunDaGamer]

Special grade sorcerers can overthrow a country alone

Also this is wrong, they were considering giving the Special Grade ranking to Principal Yaga because he could use his Puppet Sorcery to make more self-sufficient Cursed Corpses like Panda resulting in an army of autonomous Cursed Corpses. Kenjaku also explicitly says Geto has the grade because he can wield an army of Cursed Spirits. That's not exactly a solo requirement.

 

[KingTempest]

Also they can punch down buildings. I'm pretty sure Grade 1 sorcerers could destroy the white house

 

[Tago238]

AP=/=DC doesn't help your case here at all. It's used in cases where say a character doesn't have to create a nuclear explosion when he punches to ground in order to scale to 7-B because they can harm those who have 7-B durability because of their own scaling and support.

It doesn't exactly work when our character in question is using a big laser attack and then the feat you’re calcing and saying AP doesn’t equal DC are literally the same attack/feat. We know Mechamaru's blasts are hot since they instantly char wood and he says he'll burn Mahito to ashes then we got him using a 2 year charge blast to clear out a lake Mahito is hiding in which according to your calc should've vaporized the entire lake. And don't give me that AP=/=DC excuse when Mechamaru is literally using the DC of his blasts to flush Mahito out of hiding in the lake and he decides use up 2 entire years of charge for the task when he absolutely knows he should be saving some up to deal with Kenjaku next.

Also, multiple other staff members have already explained to you why attempting to drag in other verses that have completely different things going on within their scaling doesn't actually prove your point. Either you've missed important context and are gonna get fact checked by the supporters of that verse or that other verse will be getting downgraded.

Other verse comparisons are relevant because any scaling which isn’t either absolute low end or absolute high end is a bit fuzzy and relies a lot on some concept of broad precedent and internal consistency. Yes VSBW has explicit scaling rules for certain things but obviously there still yet remain grey areas. It’s pretty hard to argue anything if you can’t refer to uses in other verses, you just sort of end up asserting vague personal standards without justification.


Now, as for this specific argument it seems that the way you think other verses don’t compare to this instance of Mechamaru’s feat is that he’s intending to affect as much as possible. I guess the logic here is that we should assume characters who do AP feats which don’t reflect on the amount of destruction they actually cause is a result of them intentionally limiting the range. Idk if that applies to, say, the One Piece Bajrang gun calc (which, tbf, I’m not sure is still in use) since Luffy explicitly can’t control the fact that the Bajrang Gun would destroy a particular area but I get the general precedent-ish. The early AP =/= DC stuff was largely inspired from ki control anyway so I understand.

The issue here is doesn’t it make sense for Mechamaru to reduce the range? Yes he wants to flush Mahito out, but Mahito can’t have gotten that far, Mechamaru evidently understands the general location. And frankly he does need to have it be damaging, yes the scaling is based on the cannon effectively being a gorillion times stronger than Mahito but if you imagine him affecting the entire volume of the lake that does get pretty close. You can imagine if Mechamaru affected the whole lake a mixture of stats and regeneration would definitely allow Mahito to just squat there with little issue. Whereas if he concentrates it that’s more temperature and hence more pressure the steam he’s forming holds, even if Mahito was determined to stay in there he’d just get flung out.

If we’re thinking about what the feat is supposed to represent here, yes Mechamaru wants to affect a larger area than the cross sectional area of fist, but there’s no reason to expand it beyond the point he knows would hurt Mahito.

Tbh I’m not super committed to this particular feat myself, it is something where I’m actually interested in any existing precedent in the wiki.

Anyway…

As for the overthrow a country stuff, I don’t think it’s one of those things that’s a basis for a tier on its own per se, but I think that the many statements that Sukuna could/ would destroy the word (not like, in the blowing it up sense)/ create a new age of curses with the implication nobody could stop him even though the guy obviously loves any challenge does at least give tier 7 minimum vibes to me. Of course vibes don’t equal tier, we need more explicit stuff for that, but if we have said explicit stuff I would say the quite clear implication that the main baddy could crush any army makes it not seem particularly inconsistent.

 

[FinePoint]

Got my post deleted even though the thread moderator who gave me permission to post literally showed up in the thread to say I could. Do you want me to ask again to do a second post? Afaik that’s not how that works.

Thread moderators can only give you permission to make one post at a time, admins three, bureaucrats unlimited.

The only other exceptions are the OP, people who are retired, or people who were offered staff but turned it down.

 

[Tago238]

LET ME HAVE MY JANNY COINS IMGUR - Album on Imgur

Discover the magic of the internet at Imgur, a community powered entertainment destination. Lift your spirits with funny jokes, trending memes, entertaining gifs, inspiring stories, viral videos, and so much more from users like Tago238.

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This work?


It doesn’t. How the **** does imgur work why is this happening

The glowies don’t want 7-A JJK it seems.

 

[FinePoint]

This work?

That one isn't working either.

For the record, I had no part in designing this system, I'm just enforcing it.

 

[PowerToScale]

The Ultra Cannon result in the calc is explicitly a high-end estimate, a peak output showing what Mechamaru can achieve when releasing years of stored cursed energy at once. Yes, it’s a high ball, but it’s not the only result, nor is it presented as the best method to use. The calc includes two other values derived from different approaches, including gravitational potential energy and the level energy produced by his physical strikes. These lower-end results represent Mechamaru’s more typical attack potency and are more reliable because they align with in-universe observations showing virtually zero cursed energy usage in those instances. As stated before, the best end to use is the GPE end.

Continued reliance on visible destruction as a basis to downscale Mechamaru’s Attack Potency is a misapplication of the Wiki’s standards. The Attack Potency page explicitly clarifies that AP reflects the total energy or force an attack can exert, regardless of the level of visible environmental destruction. In Jujutsu Kaisen, and particularly in Mechamaru’s case, cursed energy attacks are often concentrated and precise, designed to damage or incapacitate their target directly without necessarily causing widespread devastation to the surroundings. Using the absence of large-scale destruction as a means to dismiss or diminish the AP values calculated is a clear misunderstanding of this principle.

The criticism toward the calc’s linear scaling of one-year, two-year, and five-year charged attacks likewise overlooks the natural consistency expected in time-based energy accumulation feats. It’s entirely reasonable, and methodologically sound, to apply linear scaling when a character is explicitly stated or shown to be charging cursed energy over a continuous, measurable timeframe. The calc isn’t inflating numbers arbitrarily; it uses the most grounded and consistent method available given the information provided in the source material.

More importantly, the destructive visuals of Mechamaru’s charged attacks are inherently limited by the nature of the attacks themselves, not by their actual energy output. Mechamaru’s Ultra Cannon is a heatwave-type blast, not a conventional explosive attack. Its damage is concentrated within a given range and volume, dealing destructive force to what it directly impacts without necessarily causing large-scale environmental destruction, only as wide as general humans length, which isn't large scale at all. The technique isn’t designed for widespread area devastation; it’s meant to output a focused, intense wave of energy. This contrasts sharply with his Ultimate Cannon, the only technique in his arsenal that produces a true explosive blast. That weapon, used in his Mode: Albatross form, combines the power of additional high-capacity cannons with his regular armaments, resulting in a visibly larger and more outwardly destructive attack. It’s the sole move within his repertoire geared toward broader, explosion-like destruction. The Ultra Cannon and standard charged attacks, by contrast, were never presented as large-scale AOE attacks; they deliver their AP in controlled, targeted waves.

To judge Mechamaru’s Attack Potency solely by the visible aftermath of these heat-based techniques is to fundamentally miss how the character’s abilities function and are portrayed. This is precisely why AP vs DC distinctions exist on the Wiki, because some attacks, by design, won’t reflect their full energy output in visible destruction, especially in series like Jujutsu Kaisen, where cursed energy techniques often emphasize precision over collateral damage.

This is the critical flaw in the downscaling. By ignoring the intended design and nature of Mechamaru’s attacks, and by focusing on visual effects alone, his interpretation dismisses both the narrative portrayal of these feats and the established energy accumulation logic the calc follows. The Ultra Cannon’s high-end estimate is not the sole measure, and the two additional, more conservative results, particularly the GPE-based one, provide reliable, physics-consistent baselines that respect both the story’s context and the Wiki’s methodology.

 

[Dalesean027]

The calc includes two other values derived from different approaches, including gravitational potential energy and the level energy produced by his physical strikes

Honestly this is equally just as bad, the GPE literally is a non factor here as well.

GPE for is not something that's measured as like the energy per second of the mecha, it wouldnt even work, GPE isnt something you can just multiply by second and would technically be High 3-A if you used logic like that. like, his GPE doesnt only hit a certain value every 1 second? his GPE is still whatever value for half a second, 1/10th of a second, even a plank second. you cant just go "uhm this GPE multiplied by 17y" it makes no logical sense.

Even with that in mind GPE also doesn't even make sense because the actual cursed energy mechamaru stores up is not even reliant on the mech itself its a product of his own body's heavenly restriction and was stored up passively since the moment he was born so unless we're saying he's was born as the absolute form mech and ignored how GPE is actually measured all to use the mech GPE as the energy per second stored then this doesn't work either.

What you're doing with GPE is basically like saying wow this building has been around for 20 years it must have taken a total of 6-C amounts of energy throughout its entire life.


And again yall continue to argue AP vs DC when no one is using that as the argument, yall actually have to stop inventing problems that aren't even something anyone is arguing

That is in fact not what I said but thanks for commenting here without permission talking about shit I never said. The problem with the calc is that it uses the value for Mechamaru's ultimate cannon his blast he literally charges up of concentracted cursed energy that is higher than what he is normally capable of, it uses that as his regular energy he generates per second which as I said numerous times


You seem to be conveniently ignoring this fact and the fact that I already said what the appropriate solution here would be.

Unless Mechamaru is shooting his ultra cannon at full potency like this then it was always be a faulty premise to use it as the amount of energy he produces per second

Also take this as your warning, this is a staff thread do not comment without permission

Fyi the punch scaling is like the same thing as well the energy he has stored throughout his life is independent of the mech so why should we measure it from feats he himself is doing at the cost of energy used to pilot the thing instead