Onigashima, Flower Capital and the Bajrang Gun

[Damage3245]

Either way, thousand of miles or not... Wano narratively is way bigger than the "way less than 6 km" arguments you guys make to downplay the size of Oni

Can you read our arguments or not? Point out a single line where we've argued that Wano Country is less than 6 km across.

You can't just nitpick every small thing to downplay Oni size when those sizes and nitpicks doesn't even have any validity when looking at how it also affects others and also doesn't make sense

Well, obviously this is where we disagree because we do feel that these arguments have validity while you and a couple others do not. We don't believe that this thread getting passed will have the ridiculous "consequences" that have been claimed here.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Can you read our arguments or not? Point out a single line where we've argued that Wano Country is less than 6 km across.

The argument is to use the water depth (from an assumption of dim light = shallow water) as a means to downplay the size of Oni which also effects Wano as it's apart of it

Not directly stating it doesn't mean that the issues of your statements don't exist when trying to scale Oni that small

Well, obviously this is where we disagree because we do feel that these arguments have validity while you and a couple others do not. We don't believe that this thread getting passed will have the ridiculous "consequences" that have been claimed here.

The argument from an assumption for size has issues... That specifically doesn't have validity for removal, for questioning maybe sure

That's what I'm trying to say

 

[Nami_Kami]

I know. I am saying it should be explicitly denounced or explicitly corroborated. If denounced, then we can focus on other arguments without that existing in the back of everyone's mind. If corroborated, it's easier for the opposition to understand what you're actually arguing, specifically. It's just a way to cut out any unneeded ambiguity.

Thank you for the feedback. Just to clarify my argument: In the world of One Piece, the photic and aphotic zones are directly mentioned, and it's said that at a 0.9KM depth it's stated that there isn't much light, although it is still visible.

At a 6KM depth however, it's pitch-black and light does not penetrate that deep anymore. This is both stated and shown to us. Since there is dim light at the bottom of Old Wano's sea, that means Onigashima is in waters less 6KM deep, and that affects it's size.

If we use how deep light goes IRL, that'd be a value of 1KM. But there is a case that in OP that's not necessarily the exact same depth, so we can also stick to the higher end of it being below 6KM at the least, which'd still contradict the calculation.

The layout of Onigashima suggests that it's not as big as the current calculation would suggest: Fuga who is 37 meters tall reaches and damages the ceiling of a floor when he runs, with the maps showing us 11 floors total, 7 of which are located inside the skull. Since the current calculation states that the Skull Dome is 18.5KM tall, that'd require each floor to be on average 2.64KM in height. This is not reflected in the manga, with numerous panels that show the floors aren't anywhere near as tall.

Wano's Waterfall is also not depicted as being that big, with a recent calculation putting it's height at about 4.8KM. This is consistent with light reaching the bottom of Wano's sea.

 

[Damage3245]

The argument is to use the water depth (from an assumption of dim light = shallow water) as a means to downplay the size of Oni which also effects Wano as it's apart of it

Not directly stating it doesn't mean that the issues of your statements don't exist when trying to scale Oni that small

That is one argument, not the whole argument.

And no, we've never said anything about it affecting anything else in Wano. It comes across as both a Slippery Slope and a Straw Man argument; that if our actual points can't be refuted then what is being focused on is the hypothetical effects it would have on other things, which neither the OP nor myself agree with. It's twisting our argument into something different than it actually is.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

That is one argument, not the whole argument.

And no, we've never said anything about it affecting anything else in Wano. It comes across as both a Slippery Slope and a Straw Man argument; that if our actual points can't be refuted then what is being focused on is the hypothetical effects it would have on other things, which neither the OP nor myself agree with. It's twisting our argument into something different than it actually is.

That one argument is the main argument still, everything else is just support for that argument even when it still has issues

I am way to busy and need to sleep so I can't reply to everything and take my time but the support from other arguments is most of, using not to scale, highlighted panels to compare very small thing to very big things... Which isn't accurate and is a thing on the wiki that accepts isn't a valid to use against for sizes

 

[Damage3245]

That one argument is the main argument still, everything else is just support for that argument even when it still has issues

I am way to busy and need to sleep so I can't reply to everything and take my time but the support from other arguments is most of, using not to scale, highlighted panels to compare very small thing to very big things... Which isn't accurate and is a thing on the wiki that accepts isn't a valid to use against for sizes

There's a lot more to it than just that if you would care to take a look at my post here when you do have time. Go get some rest.

 

[KingTempest]

Y’all acting like the wall is 6km and the island is anything substantially greater is just raw dishonesty

 

[Damage3245]

Y’all acting like the wall is 6km and the island is anything substantially greater is just raw dishonesty

KT, I get that you and I disagree on this argument but the OP and I aren't being dishonest about any of it. We've explained why we think that map you've brought up isn't valid to use, and I've pointed out multiple issues that would happen if we used that map with your current calculation for Onigashima. Earlier you and Clover almost jumped me when it looked like I wasn't responding to your post, and once I did respond to your post you've seemingly not acknowledged it at all or the issues I brought up.

 

[KingTempest]

KT, I get that you and I disagree on this argument but the OP and I aren't being dishonest about any of it. We've explained why we think that map you've brought up isn't valid to use, and I've pointed out multiple issues that would happen if we used that map with your current calculation for Onigashima. Earlier you and Clover almost jumped me when it looked like I wasn't responding to your post, and once I did respond to your post you've seemingly not acknowledged it at all or the issues I brought up.

The map can be wrong for all I care
We all know that Wano isn’t that much bigger than the height of the walls
Also I don’t think y’all understand
The waterfall with the fish is not the walls of Wano

 

[Damage3245]

The map can be wrong for all I care
We all know that Wano isn’t that much bigger than the height of the walls
Also I don’t think y’all understand
The waterfall with the fish is not the walls of Wano

Does this mean a concession on the point of the map at least?

And this may be where the disconnect is coming from between us if you're saying the waterfall that the fish climb is not the "walls of Wano". Could you please explain what you mean by that because that could help clear this up.

 

[Deceived3596]

Yeah, I would also like further clarification on that statement as well. Particularly because this scan exists which seemingly indicates otherwise.

 

[ReturnofKhadz]

Y’all acting like the wall is 6km and the island is anything substantially greater is just raw dishonesty

For clarification, how high is the current calc implying new Wano’s elevation from true sea level is?

 

[KingTempest]

nevermind

 

[Agnaa]

And even more importantly, our argument has never been that Wano Country is a very short distance across. This is being misconstrued from what our argument actually is which focuses on just Onigashima, the Flower Capital, and the Bajrang Gun. It is better to save these types of arguments for if we actually have a revision on the Wano Country itself.

I think this is an improper way to handle a topic like this.

This discussion is, ultimately, about which interpretation of certain key sizes is most consistent.

Let's say that we try to silo these discussions off. And let's say, for the sake of argument, that there are 7 textual indications about the sizes of Onigashima, the Flower Capital, and the Bajrang Gun. Five of these support them "not being too big", and two of those support them "being huge". And so, we look at the weight of evidence, and accept that they're relatively small.

Then let's imagine we continue to the next thread, and we find that there are 15 textual indications about the size of Wano. Twelve support it "being huge", and three of them support it being "not too big". And let's finally assume that there are 9 textual indications saying, with no contradictions, that the size of Wano, and the size of Onigashima are linked; that they can't be more than an order of magnitude apart.

Well then, this second thread would have to overturn the prior decision. The weight of the evidence ties them together, and also leans towards the collection of them being large. 14 indications on the large side, with only 8 on the small side, so my hypothetical made-up numbers would fall.

Solidifying, applying, and reverting decisions like that would be a complete waste of everyone's time.

And so, all sizes which are related should be considered and handled in one thread. You can't get a good picture of consistency by only focusing on one fragment of it.

(As an aside, I will not be providing my view on which argument is correct; I've only looked at a fraction of the available evidence, and don't have time to look at the rest).

 

[Damage3245]

I think this is an improper way to handle a topic like this.

I get where you're coming from; I'm not actually trying to split up the discussion into another thread - I just want to make it clear that the position of the OP and I is that there is no contradictory link here between the size of Wano and the size of Onigashima which the opposition have brought up.

I'm fine to have it all be settled in this thread if need be.

 

[Agnaa]

I get where you're coming from; I'm not actually trying to split up the discussion into another thread - I just want to make it clear that the position of the OP and I is that there is no contradictory link here between the size of Wano and the size of Onigashima which the opposition have brought up.

I'm fine to have it all be settled in this thread if need be.

Map aside (which you have already commented on), KT gestured at there being some in the following posts:

Due to this and the showings of the walls that border Wano being even larger than Wano in every showing

The map can be wrong for all I care
We all know that Wano isn’t that much bigger than the height of the walls

While KT didn't immediately provide evidence, you didn't seem interested in probing for that evidence:

Does this mean a concession on the point of the map at least?

But if you are, I think that would be a good avenue forward.

 

[Damage3245]

While KT didn't immediately provide evidence, you didn't seem interested in probing for that evidence:

In my comment I said this:

And this may be where the disconnect is coming from between us if you're saying the waterfall that the fish climb is not the "walls of Wano". Could you please explain what you mean by that because that could help clear this up.

Which is definitely probing for an explanation and evidence.

And KT ended up saying this:

nevermind

So I'm not sure what you're expecting from me Agnaa as it seems the ball is in the other court.

 

[Damage3245]

@Dalesean027 Just so that it doesn't get lost, here are the summaries from KingTempest and myself that you asked for. Nami Kami also provides a clarifying summary here.

 

[Dalesean027]

Okay just a bit more time and I can look through everything I ended up getting caught up in those JJK threads

 

[KingTempest]

Okay just a bit more time and I can look through everything I ended up getting caught up in those JJK threads

Me too lmao

 

[Dalesean027]

@Dalesean027 Just so that it doesn't get lost, here are the summaries from KingTempest and myself that you asked for. Nami Kami also provides a clarifying summary here.

okay few things here

Thank you for the feedback. Just to clarify my argument: In the world of One Piece, the photic and aphotic zones are directly mentioned, and it's said that at a 0.9KM depth it's stated that there isn't much light, although it is still visible.

At a 6KM depth however, it's pitch-black and light does not penetrate that deep anymore. This is both stated and shown to us. Since there is dim light at the bottom of Old Wano's sea, that means Onigashima is in waters less 6KM deep, and that affects it's size.

If we use how deep light goes IRL, that'd be a value of 1KM. But there is a case that in OP that's not necessarily the exact same depth, so we can also stick to the higher end of it being below 6KM at the least, which'd still contradict the calculation.

Can't really argue with this the most I can really say is that visibility is not equally uniform throughout everywhere in the ocean and sunlight visibility is dependent on a lot of factors so I won't personally say use of a scan from Fishman island is a valid debunk for Wano but then again I can't really speak on its aquatic ecosystem or the actual qualities of the water though so I'll leave that be since the logic here does work technically still.

Moving on now

The layout of Onigashima suggests that it's not as big as the current calculation would suggest: Fuga who is 37 meters tall reaches and damages the ceiling of a floor when he runs, with the maps showing us 11 floors total, 7 of which are located inside the skull. Since the current calculation states that the Skull Dome is 18.5KM tall, that'd require each floor to be on average 2.64KM in height. This is not reflected in the manga, with numerous panels that show the floors aren't anywhere near as tall.

This at a glance does seem right but then I've backtracked through the thread and Kachon has shown that each major floor has several rooms which actually seemingly have their own storeys and are actually pretty damn big it seems with some shots even implying a single floor is at least 100ish meters tall at least, especially ya got guys who are this tall running inside and not even remotely touching the ceiling so it definitely contradicts the 37m ceiling cap for each major floor, I could see it being the ceiling of an individual room in the place tho. I think my biggest thing though is that clearly those maps are not drawn to the full scale of the inside that we see so solely using them as a big kinda A-ha doesn't really work for me. Damage the same thing applies to your post below

There are inconsistent visuals of the entrance unfortunately. If we go by that shot, or the other one where the Thousand Sunny is docking then the railings of those bridges appear to be dozens of meters tall. Yet we also have multiple shots where the railings are more comparable to the characters themselves. It could simply be that it is the Thousand Sunny that is drawn inaccurately here.

Being be real here KT is right we literally have a thread on this same thing you're doing here, the inconsistencies come when characters are involved with larger structures and giants not the other way around. The intent of size is portrayed here this is THE establishing shot and is the real scale present using less grand smaller panel shots where they are fitting this kind of thing into a smaller panel while accommodating for the normal sized character just does not work.

To quote myself from that thread on where I stand for using shots like this or the ones where actual large size goons are suddenly smaller when interacting in other panels.

Damage I don't believe they're saying statements and canon information don't have priority I'm pretty sure we agree those have the upmost priority as it'll help determine something if the sizes are consistently off looking HOWEVER in cases where that information isn't provided at all and we're to take the size of the presented feat or showcase, it'd be best to not try and use other panels where there'd be inconsistencies in size rather the the more detailed spreads or panels that the feat or large sized being or object itself is presented in when it takes priority.


Imagine now a case where there's a creature stated to be "as big as a mountain" and in the more detailed panels or spreads where it's the focus its depicted as being massively large and is seen even over the horizon but then suddenly when interacting with human panels where those humans are the focus and it suddenly looks a smaller and is plagued by inconsistencies in size, I'd always be more inclined to take the feat itself and large sized thing when its the focus itself and is presented more detailed and large than when that same thing suddenly shrinks to accommodate for human characters.

That said I'm not advocating for any specific size end here since I do see there have been numerous recalcs proposed here already I'm just here to moreso comment on the above arguments. There's some interesting stuff here like the near 5km waterfall recalc or other things but I can't really speak on any of it in detail from an outside perspective since I don't have every nook and cranny of wano and am not gonna pretend to know its full layout outside of the arguments presented

The current stuff could potentially be lower but at the same time not all the arguments against it have been entirely sound imo, some recalcs could be promising but I can't definitively say nor do I want to be the sole deciding factor especially when I'm not more knowledgeable than the people here on OP

 

[Damage3245]

Thank you for commenting. I take it from your evaluation that you are currently voting to be neutral?

If so then I will try to make an exact list of the pieces of evidence we are using and would like you to say which ones you agree with and which ones you don't in order to get a clearer picture and see how to advance the thread. In the end there may be more valid arguments than invalid arguments which let's us know what to focus on.

 

[Nami_Kami]

especially ya got guys who are this tall running inside and not even remotely touching the ceiling so it definitely contradicts the 37m ceiling cap for each major floor, I could see it being the ceiling of an individual room in the place tho. I think my biggest thing though is that clearly those maps are not drawn to the full scale of the inside that we see so solely using them as a big kinda A-ha doesn't really work for me. Damage the same thing applies to your post below

I'd like to say that I disagree with the argument for Inbi's size, since Inbi and the ships are clearly not side-by-side here.

We see that Inbi is closer to our PoV than General Franky which is only about 6.5 meters tall when it's not standing on it's legs and he still doesn't massively dwarf it despite being closer to our PoV. If he was truly as tall or taller than those large ships while squatting, then he should be massively dwarfing General Franky in this panel even while squatting, which isn't the case.

We do have a much better view of Inbi in a close-up which shows that Inbi clearly isn't that large, so I'd say it's better to use this scan, as the PoV in the other one is not clear and Inbi simply appears to be closer to our PoV.

This at a glance does seem right but then I've backtracked through the thread and Kachon has shown that each major floor has several rooms which actually seemingly have their own storeys and are actually pretty damn big it seems with some shots even implying a single floor is at least 100ish meters tall at least

I think that a hundred meters is an overreach. I live 30-ish meters above ground level and I can tell you people appear VERY small from such height. Although here are alternate PoVs of the same floor that suggest it's not really that big. I think Oda simply blacked the silhouettes out so that he doesn't have to draw each individual person in that frame as he'd have had to draw too many people, hence it appears they're that small.


With this out of the way I do have to also add that the bodies of water inside Wano and it's sea are polluted, to the point where they're literally reffered to as poisonous to people. Clean water is a luxury in Wano, only being produced at Orochi's Castle, with normal people having to work very hard to be able to afford clean water, which implies that the sea inside Wano is not clean. This does make sense beyond just Kaido polluting the land, since the sea of Wano is also located atop a ruined civilization. Now the reason I'm bringing all of this is because the more polluted a body of water is, the harder light travels in it and in turn the less depth it reaches. Therefore there are factors that may actually shorten how deep light goes in Wano. It's also noteworthy that the cleanest water always is pushed to the top by the less clean and thus denser waters while the denser water sinks down. This pretty much means that the water at the surface of the Wano's sea is the cleanest of it all as far as the water inside of Wano goes, and the deeper down we go the worse it gets.

 

[KingTempest]

This man said every point in the OP and argued for the OP regarding Onigashima was wrong. That doesn’t look like a neutral.

 

[Damage3245]

This man said every point in the OP and argued for the OP regarding Onigashima was wrong. That doesn’t look like a neutral.

Hopefully Dalesean himself can clarify but he said there were some things he couldn't argue against and he said:

The current stuff could potentially be lower but at the same time not all the arguments against it have been entirely sound imo, some recalcs could be promising but I can't definitively say nor do I want to be the sole deciding factor especially when I'm not more knowledgeable than the people here on OP

Which doesn't look like a vote cast in either direction.

 

[KingTempest]

@Dalesean027 come here

 

[Dalesean027]

I'll be off work and at home in 4 and a half hours, that's why I've not been able to comment yet today (I'm usually busy always)

Other than that all I can say is that with the little time I have is that I did express disagreements with the arguments presented to downgrade right now but am not opposed to recalcs if they seem more sensible

 

[Damage3245]

This is the current list of arguments against the currently used size calcs.

Issue 1 - The sea of Wano

• Onigashima is submerged in the inner sea of Wano. This accepted calculation puts the height of Wano's waterfalls at around 4.8 kilometers. As we can tell from this layout of Wano Country, the depth of Wano's inner sea is comparable to the height of Wano's waterfalls.
  • We have multiple supporting visuals of Wano's waterfalls that indicate a height far less than dozens of kilometers.
• Both the Thousand Sunny and the Queen Mama Chanter make it up the waterfalls quickly thanks to the Koi fish; a few panels for the Sunny and in the Queen Mama Chanter's case we can see the scene of Kaido panicking as Big Mom's ship climbs the waterfalls. It's clearly events that are happening over the course of mere minutes, if not seconds. This makes sense for the travel distance up the length of a waterfall a few kilometers high and not dozens or hundreds of kilometers.
• Thanks to the layout image above, we know that the depth of Wano's inner sea is comparable to the distance between the present-day Wano and the Old Wano at the bottom of the inner sea. Sukiyaki, Robin and Law descend from Sukiyaki's room in the Flower Capital down the stairs to the cavern at the level where Old Wano lies. They travelled all that way down the stairs all in the same night that the celebrations and festivities are going on, when Aramaki is on his way to attack the Flower Capital. Much of their travel time is cut out but we can infer that it took them a while. If the depth of Wano was a few kilometers then this kind of journey time, while lengthy, still fits within the same night as it would take no more than a few hours to get down there.
• When Sukiyaki, Robin and Law near the sea floor layer of Wano, they comment that there is a dim light coming from the sea which allows them to get a good look at Old Wano. As we know from what has been established in Fish-Man Island arc, One Piece acknowledges the existence of photic and aphotic zones where light penetration through water is acknowledged to cause underwater areas to become dim. At 6 kilometers of depth the surroundings become extremely dark. Fish-Man Island, at around 9 kilometers below sea level, is acknowledged to be unique in all the world due to the presence of Sunlight Tree Eve which carries down light from the surface. Therefore it is extremely likely that the depth of Wano's inner is less than 6 kilometers which is consistent with the calc mentioned above.

None of these arguments or pieces of evidence involve the use of "scaling small characters to big objects".

Issue 2 - The Skull Dome's Layout

Some of the issues regarding the Skull Dome have been glossed over to an extent so I want to illustrate exactly why it is an issue and how the current calculation runs counter to the vast majority of information have concerning the Skull Dome.

This is a piece of pixelscaling from the current Onigashima calc: Skull Teeth to Peak: 88 px = 12951.228276878 m

Essentially 13 kilometers for that measurement of the exterior of the castle between those two points. Why is this important?

• As we can tell from this map, that measurement of the teeth to the peak of the Skull Dome is the exact equivalent of the seven floors of the castle area. More precisely, the five main floors with the two basement floors beneath them hence why the upper ones are labelled 1 through 5 as additional shots here and here depict. The multiple internal shots of the Skull Dome line up extremely closely with this map, so there is no need to depend on the scale of the map alone.
  • At 12951.228276878 divided by seven floors, we'd end up with 1850 meters per floor (not accounting for the narrow attics between each floor).
• Fuga is a Number (artificial Ancient Giant) that we have a canon height for, being listed as 37.15 meters tall, yet he is tall enough to scrape the ceiling of the basement floor with his horns. Even if we doubled the height of each floor to account for an additional level, that still falls drastically short of nearly 2 kilometers.
• A cross-section of the floors is visible when Jinbe redirects a huge quantity of water to flood through the castle. The floors are easily tens of meters tall... but not kilometers.
  • We also see a glimpse at one of the floors from the outside of the Skull Dome through a hole in its structure.
  • Other exterior shots of the Skull Dome even show other buildings not being dwarfed by this supposedly dozen kilometer tall structure.
• For the interior castle, or in other words the height from the Performance Floor up to the ceiling where the Skull Dome's top is, to be around 13 kilometers tall, we would have to disregard virtually every shot of the Skull Dome's ceiling from the interior such as the eight clear depictions of the Skull Dome's interior here. How many visuals are required to suggest that 13 kilometers is an outlier exactly?

Issue 3 - The Flower Capital's Size

• The current calc for the Flower Capital puts it at 404 kilometers wide. This is based upon this panel which is a flawed method as Onigashima appears to be in the background of the panel instead of being in-line with the Flower Capital itself. This has the effect of inflating the size of the capital by comparison.
• A size value of this magnitude is contradicted by every single visual we have of the Flower Capital. It's certainly a big city, the largest settlement in Wano Country... but it is by now means hundreds of kilometers across. Orochi's castle is an extremely prominent landmark in it, viewed each time we see the city from a distance and yet we can tell by simple comparison to the buildings around it that it is not tens of kilometers tall.
• If the Flower Capital is vastly smaller than what has been calced, then Onigashima will also be made smaller too. Onigashima is also small enough to comfortably fit within the Flower Capital and does not dwarf it when it lands next to the capital.

Issue 4 - Bajrang Gun's Size

• The current calc for the Bajrang Gun puts it at 32 kilometers wide. As we can see in multiple panels here, the size of the head of Kaido's Dragon Flame Torch is comparable to the Bajrag Gun. Kaido's Flame Dragon Torch is not a "small character" being used to nitpick the size of the Banjrang Gun; it is depicted in multiple panels here. I can't imagine any reason why it would be valid to compare the Bajrang Gun to Onigashima but not to Kaido's attack. Furthermore we have a direct comparison of Kaido's dragon form to his Dragon Flame Torch which surrounds him; it is only a few timers larger / wider than he is at best.
  • Does this head look like it is only a few times smaller than 32 kilometers?
  • Further shots from both the manga and anime for consistency on this.
• Following the issues with Onigashima / the Skull Dome above, if Onigashima is much smaller than what has been calced then the Bajrang Gun itself must be much smaller.

@Dalesean027 From my understanding of your evaluation above, the arguments in the OP that you took most issue with were;

1) Comparing small characters to large structures.
2) The issue with the floors of the Skull Dome not being a good argument due to them consisting of multiple levels / appearing roughly a hundred-ish meters tall.

I hope my post here illustrates that there is so much more contradicting the current calcs than just those two arguments; we don't need to compare any individual character to Onigashima here to see the narrative, logical and visual issues present throughout. If there is anything about the internal layout of Onigashima's Skull Dome that is unclear in the scans, or a part of these arguments that is not convincing to you then I would love to discuss it. You said that you're not opposed to a sensible re-calc, but I'd like to see if anything about this post is enough to make you agree that the current calc creates contradictions.

 

[Therefir]

I have to agree with Damage, the current size of Onigashima that we use for calculations is completely disproportionate and increased to the limit to obtain the best results, even though it contradicts the narrative and the internal layout of Onigashima.

 

[Dalesean027]

I'll wait for counter arguments but this does seem pretty convincing and much more concrete than the previous argument

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

None of these arguments or pieces of evidence involve the use of "scaling small characters to big objects".

You’re still using very small objects to scale huge objects

Onigashima is submerged in the inner sea of Wano. This accepted calculation puts the height of Wano's waterfalls at around 4.8 kilometers. As we can tell from this layout of Wano Country, the depth of Wano's inner sea is comparable to the height of Wano's waterfalls.

• We have multiple supporting visuals of Wano's waterfalls that indicate a height far less than dozens of kilometers.

We can see that the “small” mountains around the seas in wano are relative size to Zunesha whos length is at least 2 km

Zunisha Length = 123px (2000 m) (Head to left back leg)

Wano Sea mountains height = 117 px (1902.4390243902 m)

Wano Sea mountains top width = 38 px (617.88617886179 m)

Wano Sea mountains bottom width = 51 px (829.26829268293 m)

And those 2 km mountains look tiny compared to the waterfall, which is also very far way from them and our pov

I don’t know other scans (Since I haven’t yet read wano) but that at least debunks the idea of the waterfall being just around 2x those mountains with that accepted calculation and contradicts these sizes

It also seems a bit cherry picky trying to get the results that will fit the narrative of the wano walls being less than 6 km… which will still already contradict many sizes both inside and outside those walls and then use that to try and go against them, but still just wanted to chime in on the waterfalls being able to scale way bigger than 6km

 

[Damage3245]

I don’t know other scans (Since I haven’t yet read wano) but that at least debunks the idea of the waterfall being just around 2x those mountains with that accepted calculation and contradicts these sizes

If we can use those mountains to debunk Wano being 4.8 km above sea level, can we use the internal shots of the Skull Dome to debunk Kaido's castle being 13 km tall?

It also seems a bit cherry picky trying to get the results that will fit the narrative of the wano walls being less than 6 km… which will still already contradict many sizes both inside and outside those walls and then use that to try and go against them, but still just wanted to shime in on the waterfalls being able to scale way bigger than 6km

I don't believe there will be that many contradictions, and if you want to talk about cherrypicking then you will need to ignore a ton more visuals and contradictions in order to justify the currently used calculation.

 

[Nami_Kami]

You’re still using very small objects to scale huge objects

We can see that the “small” mountains around the seas in wano are relative size to Zunesha whos length is at least 2 km

Zunisha Length = 123px (2000 m) (Head to left back leg)

Wano Sea mountains height = 117 px (1902.4390243902 m)

Wano Sea mountains top width = 38 px (617.88617886179 m)

Wano Sea mountains bottom width = 51 px (829.26829268293 m)

And those 2 km mountains look tiny compared to the waterfall, which is also very far way from them and our pov

There seem to be quite a few assumptions and errors in your calculation. We can't see Zunesha's full length on this panel due to the PoV, so the calculation already does not hold up. You're also making baseless assumptions on the cliff sizes. Zunesha was in a different area from the one on your bottom panel and Wano wasn't even visible there. Cliff sizes vary. If you have a calculation for the cliffs in the bottom panel next to Wano I'd be able to see your point.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

If we can use those mountains to debunk Wano being 4.8 km above sea level, can we use the internal shots of the Skull Dome to debunk Kaido's castle being 13 km tall?

No? Since that isn’t a 1 to 1 scale, it isn’t an actual internal shot… just shows it in a simplified version for readers to understand the layout

Like idk how you think that’s comparable?

I don't believe there will be that many contradictions, and if you want to talk about cherrypicking then you will need to ignore a ton more visuals and contradictions in order to justify the currently used calculation.

a ton more visuals being… not to scale comparisons and or using small characters to try and scale? Or what actual valid contradiction is there besides the water being too shallow?

Like I know that you know that this is such an inaccurate way of scaling the ship of big mom pirates and yet you still accepted it? Like how does that not look like you’re cherry picking the sizes?

 

[Damage3245]

No? Since that isn’t a 1 to 1 scale, it isn’t an actual internal shot… just shows it in a simplified version for readers to understand the layout

I wasn't referring to just the map.

Or what actual valid contradiction is there besides the water being too shallow?

Refer to my earlier post here. I'm not going to just repeat it all again for you.

 

[Bananossauro]

Issue 4 - Bajrang Gun's Size

• The current calc for the Bajrang Gun puts it at 32 kilometers wide. As we can see in multiple panels here, the size of the head of Kaido's Dragon Flame Torch is comparable to the Bajrag Gun. Kaido's Flame Dragon Torch is not a "small character" being used to nitpick the size of the Banjrang Gun; it is depicted in multiple panels here. I can't imagine any reason why it would be valid to compare the Bajrang Gun to Onigashima but not to Kaido's attack. Furthermore we have a direct comparison of Kaido's dragon form to his Dragon Flame Torch which surrounds him; it is only a few timers larger / wider than he is at best.
  • Does this head look like it is only a few times smaller than 32 kilometers?
  • Further shots from both the manga and anime for consistency on this.
• Following the issues with Onigashima / the Skull Dome above, if Onigashima is much smaller than what has been calced then the Bajrang Gun itself must be much smaller.

Not sure that I can comment here but, I think the dragon Kaido inside de Fire Dragon Thingy is inconsistent with everything.
The bajrang gun is around half the size of Onigashima and unless the island is only a few hundred meters in size, it does not make sense that Kaido's dragon head is a few times smaller than bajrang gun and at most a few times larger than G3 fist.

 

[Damage3245]

Not sure that I can comment here but, I think the dragon Kaido inside de Fire Dragon Thingy is inconsistent with everything.
The bajrang gun is around half the size of Onigashima and unless the island is only a few hundred meters in size, it does not make sense that Kaido's dragon head is a few times smaller than bajrang gun and at most a few times larger than G3 fist.

I have seen arguments that Kaido and Momonosuke are not meant to be taken drawn to scale with Onigashima here. In which case the same could be said for the Bajrang Gun and that it is not meant to be exactly to scale with Onigashima too.

 

[Bananossauro]

I have seen arguments that Kaido and Momonosuke are not meant to be taken drawn to scale with Onigashima here. In which case the same could be said for the Bajrang Gun and that it is not meant to be exactly to scale with Onigashima too.

That's a weird take. I can see why dragon kaido wouldn't since he has other scenes where he isn't that big, mainly in girth and head size, but I don't see anti feats for bajrang being relative to the island especially when its a plot point that the bajrang fist is so massive that Momo has to pull it away from it to not destroy the island

 

[Damage3245]

That's a weird take. I can see why dragon kaido wouldn't since he has other scenes where he isn't that big, mainly in girth and head size, but I don't see anti feats for bajrang being relative to the island especially when its a plot point that the bajrang fist is so massive that Momo has to pull it away from it to not destroy the island

Oh, I'm sure it's still relative to an extent but there's multiple panels where it varies by how much it is comparable to Onigashima.

Still, one thing I'm certain about is that the Bajrang Gun is not dozens of kilometers across.

 

[Nami_Kami]

That's a weird take. I can see why dragon kaido wouldn't since he has other scenes where he isn't that big, mainly in girth and head size, but I don't see anti feats for bajrang being relative to the island especially when its a plot point that the bajrang fist is so massive that Momo has to pull it away from it to not destroy the island

DC ≠ size, and Yamato notes he'd punch a hole in it, AKA the fist is smaller than the island. Chances are Luffy probably just worried about hurting his friends that were inside it.