2025 JJK Upgrade CRT

[Passersby]

17 years of cursed energy is not enough? That's more than definitely an inexhaustible amount of cursed energy. Unless you think his 17 years of cursed energy is specifically limited to the robot like binding vow or something.

this wasn't what i was talking about, and it honestly feels like a deflection.


assuming those 17 years mean 17 years worth of mechamaru's CE somehow, they will siginificantly vary in effect depending on his base day to day ce quantity

of which you assumed said quantity is endless, literally endless, and that's what i'm contesting, unless you bring actual evidence from within the series mechamaru has the ce reserve necessary to spam his attacks 86 thousand times a day, the calc is bull

You're mudding the arguments here by saying forever, no one is saying he can do it FOREVER

my brain is muddled from fasting sleep deprivation and cycling so let's just do this

assuming A mechamaru has infinite stamina, B he is immortal and C he doesn't need to sleep

based on the model you're relying on in your calc, can he use the ultimate canon forever?

yes or no?

because the answer is yes

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I don't know about that calculation, but if it shares the same issues as Mechamaru's, then I think it should be removed.

This really seems very straight forward to me, there are two main requirements for a multiplier to be valid:

1. A direct statement.
2. Strong supportive evidence in case of a 100x multiplier or above (which is the case here).

And none of those requirements are being met.

The multipliers page also quite explicitly says that multipliers shouldn’t be reasoned from something else, which is pretty much what was done here.
The conclusion becomes clear then: The multiplier can’t be used since it simply violates the wiki rules.

Think that page is outdated, since the SSJ God or SSJ4 multipliers both were accepted with no direct statement.

 

[Electronic74947]

I don't know about that calculation, but if it shares the same issues as Mechamaru's, then I think it should be removed.

This really seems very straight forward to me, there are two main requirements for a multiplier to be valid:

1. A direct statement.
2. Strong supportive evidence in case of a 100x multiplier or above (which is the case here).

And none of those requirements are being met.

The multipliers page also quite explicitly says that multipliers shouldn’t be reasoned from something else, which is pretty much what was done here.
The conclusion becomes clear then: The multiplier can’t be used since it simply violates the wiki rules.

Except that the whole schtick of the robot is that it takes years of mechamaru's CE reserves to fire a big ass energy blast? A multiplier would be something similar to dragonball through chainscaling, they give how any years of CE is taken off, and we see how much other movement is in comparison to the blast (Ie basic movement for a few minutes)

 

[MrTayman616]

Think that page is outdated, since the SSJ God or SSJ4 multipliers both were accepted with no direct statement.

It's not.

There were statements of SSJ God's superiority to Vegito etc.

 

[Electronic74947]

It's not.

There were statements of SSJ God's superiority to Vegito etc.

and vegito's multiplier?

 

[MrTayman616]

and vegito's multiplier?

Was from some databook iirc. Might be wrong about it.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Was from some databook iirc. Might be wrong about it.

These don't look like direct statements,

 

[MrTayman616]

These don't look like direct statements,

These conclusions aren't based on calculation based multipliers.

But through multipliers that already exist. (Also i don't think it matters for this thread at all :d)

 

[Electronic74947]

These conclusions aren't based on calculation based multipliers.

it's not calculation based really, it's just the amount of seconds in 5 years applied to the energy per second he takes to move for his full power. The only calculation is how much energy he takes a second, the 5 year multiplier is stated in the manga

 

[MrTayman616]

it's not calculation based really, it's just the amount of seconds in 5 years applied to the energy per second he takes to move for his full power. The only calculation is how much energy he takes a second, the 5 year multiplier is stated in the manga

I know. The problem isn't the "years". But the value he chooses for a second. (at least imo)

I'm fine with using it as a multiplier as we know that's how much he uses. But using that "attack" as one second worth of cursed energy is wrong. And even comparing it to any other attack of his as the timer of 17 years seems to refer to the robot.

I'm fine with the other one where it's fully based on the robot.

 

[Electronic74947]

I'm fine with the other one where it's fully based on the robot.

thats the one I'm talking about lol, I disagree with the other calc too. It's not even consistent since it barely does any damage to the surrounding area to warrant mountain level

 

[Tago238]

she's still alive thats the issue, she became a black hole due to increasing her mASS

Yeah? She was alive for like a second. If you think that’s too impressive well then hell, maybe we should calc that instead. Again, your side needs to be capable of answering this question because you’re levying what’re more or less nitpicks you don’t see for other series to say the smaller darkness that occurred before a black hole everyone admits is real appeared without talking about what that darkness is. Your interpretation fundamentally has a much larger issue than the ones you levy at others.

I keep seeing “well she could be moon level mass” but that’s just incoherent.

 

[Electronic74947]

Yeah? She was alive for like a second. If you think that’s too impressive well then hell, maybe we should calc that instead. Again, your side needs to be capable of answering this question because you’re levying what’re more or less nitpicks you don’t see for other series to say the smaller darkness that occurred before a black hole everyone admits is real appeared without talking about what that darkness is. Your interpretation fundamentally has a much larger issue than the ones you levy at others..

Except the feat happened when she’s alive lol, she’s still yapping. The black hole hasn’t formed


Also it could just be there to look cool

 

[Tago238]

Except the feat happened when she’s alive lol, she’s still yapping

Cmon, engage here.

 

[MrTayman616]

Cmon, engage here.

What's the topic?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

HOLY that black hole got hammered and smashed until it was absolutely destroyed.

So, this is a downgrade now or what?

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

I wasn't aware Arkenis already created the CRT

Since I already agree with the black hole calc I'll try to answer the reason given

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

I'm curious if it's possibly to calc the feat even if it's far far smaller cause I agree with the fact that Yuki hasn't died she hasn't reach enough mASS to turn into a black hole, just her mASS was high enough to attract kenjaku

Why does she need to die for it to be accepted as a black hole tho?

Kenjaku calls it a black hole and we see him being dragged in it

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

Except the feat happened when she’s alive lol, she’s still yapping. The black hole hasn’t formed

That's not an argument
She was also alive while being bisected
Kenjaku literally states it's a black hole and we get an explanation on black holes immediately after

The intent is very much clear

Also it could just be there to look cool

This is even a worse argument
Even if it's there to look cool, that means it can't be calced?

You guys should do the bare minimum and engage properly

 

[Epyriel]

Why does she need to die for it to be accepted as a black hole tho?

Kenjaku calls it a black hole and we see him being dragged in it

It is accepted as a black hole, people are just objecting to it already being a black hole while Yuki is still monologuing.

I mean one of the god tiers of the verse died to simple bisection, yet Yuki is supposed to still be monologuing and using her technique while her entire torso is disintegrated into a black hole? Don’t really buy it, even before you consider the ramifications of the physics of this already being a black hole (from having quadrillions the times the gravitational acceleration of Earth yet is as of yet barely cracking the pavement, emitting gravitational waves at the speed of light yet somehow Supersonic+ listed characters are somehow having a casual conversation before it takes full effect, is deforming in a sharply non-spherical shape despite black holes being absolute perfect spheres, etc).

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

It is accepted as a black hole, people are just objecting to it already being a black hole while Yuki is still monologuing.

And?
Why does it affect it from being a black hole at this moment

I mean one of the god tiers of the verse died to simple bisection, yet Yuki is supposed to still be monologuing and using her technique while her entire torso is disintegrated into a black hole? Don’t really buy it, even before you consider the ramifications of the physics of this already being a black hole (from having quadrillions the times the gravitational acceleration of Earth yet is as of yet barely cracking the pavement, emitting gravitational waves at the speed of light yet somehow Supersonic+ listed characters are somehow having a casual conversation before it takes full effect, is deforming in a sharply non-spherical shape despite black holes being absolute perfect spheres, etc).

My good man Yuki was bisected as well but could still move and use her technique
Gojo dying to bisection is wholly irrelevant if we see Yuki doing things gojo couldn't do
Not an argument

Where did you see the pavement to know if it was barely cracked?
Quickly provide scans

How does being supersonic affect the feat?

Black holes aren't absolute perfect spheres, who told you that please?

Spherical black hole only happens when the black hole is in equilibrium not when it's event horizon is rapidly evolving

 

[Epyriel]

And?
Why does it affect it from being a black hole at this moment

The entire calc is based off of the movement of Kenjaku before he activates his technique.

My good man Yuki was bisected as well but could still move and use her technique
Gojo dying to bisection is wholly irrelevant if we see Yuki doing things gojo couldn't do
Not an argument

Which was implied was already going to kill her if she didn’t immediately heal, yet somehow she can brush off having her entire torso disintegrated with no additional ill effect? Which implies she doesn’t even need lungs to speak? Consider me incredibly skeptical.

Where did you see the pavement to know if it was barely cracked?
Quickly provide scans

Look at the third image here.

How does being supersonic affect the feat?

The fact that they can have an entire conversation before the black hole’s lightspeed gravitational waves engulf the surroundings would require them to have MFTL+ reactions.

Black holes aren't absolute perfect spheres, who told you that please?

My astrophysics professors at university.

The only deformity black holes have from a perfectly spherical shape is through extreme angular momentum (which Yuki’s shouldn’t have since she created it from a non-rotating frame), and even that only gives it a slightly oblate spherical shape.

Black holes never have elongated spikes, that would defeat the entire purpose of an event horizon being sourced from its even distance to a singularity.

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

The entire calc is based off of the movement of Kenjaku before he activates his technique.

Yeah okay

Which was implied was already going to kill her if she didn’t immediately heal, yet somehow she can brush off having her entire torso disintegrated with no additional ill effect? Which implies she doesn’t even need lungs to speak? Consider me incredibly skeptical.

Never implied pack it up
The only thing implied was that it would eventually kill her

Yeah that's what we see on panel, but not all her torso was disintegrated

Nothing implies that sir

Look at the third image here.

Not seeing anything there everything is covered in motion lines

The fact that they can have an entire conversation before the black hole’s lightspeed gravitationl waves engulf the surroundings would require them to have MFTL+ reactions.

No?
You don't get sucked into a black hole at light speed

My astrophysics professors at university.

I had a premonition not to properly respond to this

The only deformity black holes have from a perfectly spherical shape is through extreme angular momentum (which Yuki’s shouldn’t have since she created it from a non-rotating frame), and even that only gives it a slightly oblate spherical shape.

Yeah the topology of a black hole at equilibrium is always spherical

That's another reason, the black hole Yuki was creating wasn't stabilised yet

 

[Epyriel]

Yeah that's what we see on panel, but not all her torso was disintegrated

Nothing implies that sir

The calculation is literally claiming her torso is forming a 0.75m diameter black hole.

Not seeing anything there everything is covered in motion lines

Even the actual image used to pixel scale the calculation has the pavement just beginning to crack.

No?
You don't get sucked into a black hole at light speed

Gravitational waves travel at the speed of light. The entire surroundings would immediately be accretioned and pulled in from the perspective of characters nearly a million times slower than the speed of light.

Yeah the topology of a black hole at equilibrium is always spherical

There is no reason to think that Yuki’s black hole would start off with a gigantic burst of angular momentum, yet even if it did all you would get is an oblate spheroid. No black hole has giant random spikes.

That's another reason, the black hole Yuki was creating wasn't stabilised yet

What is this even supposed to mean?

 

[Tago238]

Yeah just saying people still haven’t explained what the apparently totally coincidental with the black hole blackness around Yuki was. Dunno what else can be said really.

 

[Epyriel]

Yeah just saying people still haven’t explained what the apparently totally coincidental with the black hole blackness around Yuki was. Dunno what else can be said really.

Didn’t I already answer this a while ago?

Let me check…

Yup I did:

Do you know how dense a human with the mass of the moon would be? On the order of 1 x 10^24 kg/m^3.

It would immediately be a gaping pit of compressed material.

 

[Tago238]

Also, ugh, gravitational waves travel at the speed of light because information can only travel at the speed of light and what do you know, changes in a gravitational field are information. That doesn’t mean matter is drawn in at that speed. Only at the event horizon is space drawing at that speed.

 

[Tago238]

Didn’t I already answer this a while ago?

Let me check…

Yup I did:

Yeah and then I tried to clarify earlier, so you’re saying that blackness is just material that’s been drawn in and compressed to a point where it’s uh… super black?

 

[Epyriel]

Also, ugh, gravitational waves travel at the speed of light because information can only travel at the speed of light and what do you know, changes in a gravitational field are information. That doesn’t mean matter is drawn in at that speed.

The speed of gravitational waves is how fast the effects of gravity would reach the surrounding environments.

The material in that environment would then be accelerated towards the source of gravity by its gravitational acceleration (g) in this case at roughly 1.2 x 10^17 m/s^2.

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

The calculation is literally claiming her torso is forming a 0.75m diameter black hole.

Where did the calc claim that
I'm not seeing it there

Even the actual image used to pixel scale the calculation has the pavement just beginning to crack.

You haven't provided evidence of that
And even so it would just be the wonkiness of tengen empty barriers

Gravitational waves travel at the speed of light. The entire surroundings would immediately be accretioned and pulled in from the perspective of characters nearly a million times slower than the speed of light.

Yeah but you don't get pulled in at the speed of light

There is no reason to think that Yuki’s black hole would start off with a gigantic burst of angular momentum, yet even if it did all you would get is an oblate spheroid. No black hole has giant random spikes.

You haven't seen a black hole that's not in equilibrium or even a star that's in gravitational collapse
How can you make such statement?

What is this even supposed to mean

It means that the black hole Mass and event horizon wasn't constant due to the interaction with its surroundings

It was rapidly evolving hence not in equilibrium, that's why it can't be a spherical object

 

[Epyriel]

Yeah and then I tried to clarify earlier, so you’re saying that blackness is just material that’s been drawn in and compressed to a point where it’s uh… super black?

Basically yes.

Not super realistic (in both the case of a black hole and non-black hole it should actually be incredibly bright as material is immediately accretionned) but in both cases you can essentially claim artistic license.

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

Didn’t I already answer this a while ago?

Let me check…

Yup I did:

That doesn't answer the question
Instead it goes around it

A gaping pit of compressed material wouldn't be black

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

Basically yes.

Not super realistic (in both the case of a black hole and non-black hole it should actually be incredibly bright as material is immediately accretionned) but in both cases you can essentially claim artistic license.

Can't we also claim artistic licence for the shape and behaviour of the black hole as well?

Since unlike your interpretation we actually have narrative intent and character statement of it being a black hole

 

[Epyriel]

Where did the calc claim that
I'm not seeing it there

That is literally the calculated diameter. Look at the pixel scaled image and then look at the actual calculation.
I’m not sure what else to tell you.

You haven't provided evidence of that
And even so it would just be the wonkiness of tengen empty barriers

I cannot use your own eyes for you. I have sent the scan, or alternatively just look at the picture even the calc itself uses. The pavement is just beginning to crack all around Yuki.

Yeah but you don't get pulled in at the speed of light

You get pulled in at an acceleration of 1.2 x 10^17 m/s^2 (which basically means you almost immediately jump to the speed of light).

You haven't seen a black hole that's not in equilibrium or even a star that's in gravitational collapse
How can you make such statement?

Because that is how physics works? Because General Relativity tells us as much? Because even Newtonian calculations of the effects of extreme angular momentum would never get us spikes?

It means that the black hole Mass and event horizon wasn't constant due to the interaction with its surroundings

It was rapidly evolving hence not in equilibrium, that's why it can't be a spherical object

That is just not at all how a black hole works.

 

[Epyriel]

Can't we also claim artistic licence for the shape and behaviour of the black hole as well?

Since unlike your interpretation we actually have narrative intent and character statement of it being a black hole

As above, VSBW’s Black Hole Feats page states:

While a completely correct depiction can not be expected, some basic laws have to be followed.

You have zero narrative intent for it already being a black hole. Yuki and Kenjaku were still monologuing about what was about to happen, and when the black hole actually forms you see it immediately present a more realistic portrayal (spherical shape, destroyed surroundings limited only by Tengen’s barrier, happens in a single panel without anyone being able to react).

 

[Tago238]

Basically yes.

Not super realistic (in both the case of a black hole and non-black hole it should actually be incredibly bright as material is immediately accretionned) but in both cases you can essentially claim artistic license.

So you say calling the blackness that surrounds Yuki a black hole is inconsistent with it not yet affecting the environment, but your interpretation for what it is is the environment it has affected (entirely off panel) that has been super compressed which makes it super black for reasons you yourself even a knowledge doesn’t make much sense.

Am I the only one seeing the issue?

 

[Epyriel]

So you say calling the blackness that surrounds Yuki a black hole is inconsistent with it not yet affecting the environment, but your interpretation for what it is is the environment it has affected (entirely off panel) that has been super compressed which makes it super black for reasons you yourself even a knowledge doesn’t make much sense.

Am I the only one seeing the issue?

It is consistent with how extreme gravity in general is depicted so far.

Realistically the black hole we see should be incredibly bright from a flash of accretionned material.

If you want to say my scenario is physically unrealistic and completely unacceptable than go right ahead, and I will add it to the list of physics violations for the black hole scenario as well.

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

That is literally the calculated diameter. Look at the pixel scaled image and then look at the actual calculation.
I’m not sure what else to tell you.

Yeah that's why I'm confused with you saying 0.75 diameter when the calculation is showing a 0.37m diameter which shouldn't cover her torso

I cannot use your own eyes for you. I have sent the scan, or alternatively just look at the picture even the calc itself uses. The pavement is just beginning to crack all around Yuki.

It's covered with motion lines how do you expect me to see what you're trying to show me?
Point it out

You get pulled in at an acceleration of 1.2 x 10^17 m/s^2 (which basically means you almost immediately jump to the speed of light).

Nah because a black hole pull depends on it's mass and distance
Not every black hole pulls someone at the speed of light

Because that is how physics works? Because General Relativity tells us as much? Because even Newtonian calculations of the effects of extreme angular momentum would never get us spikes?

Said physics only applies to stable black holes or black holes in equilibrium



Just give me an article saying it's the same for black holes that are not in equilibrium

 

[Tago238]

It is consistent with how extreme gravity in general is depicted so far.

Realistically the black hole we see should be incredibly bright from a flash of accretionned material.

If you want to say my scenario is physically unrealistic and completely unacceptable than go right ahead, and I will add it to the list of physics violations for the black hole scenario as well.

I think you are intentionally ignoring the bulk of my post.

 

[Epyriel]

Yeah that's why I'm confused with you saying 0.75 diameter when the calculation is showing a 0.37m diameter which shouldn't cover her torso

0.75m is the diameter, 0.37m is the radius.

It's covered with motion lines how do you expect me to see what you're trying to show me?
Point it out

By not being blind? This is getting ridiculous.

Nah because a black hole pull depends on it's mass and distance
Not every black hole pulls someone at the speed of light

I literally gave you the actual calculated gravitational acceleration for this specific case using the calc’s own numbers and its own calculator.

Said physics only applies to stable black holes or black holes in equilibrium

Just give me an article saying it's the same for black holes that are not in equilibrium

You are literally just making concepts up. “Stable” black holes are literally just every black hole.

How about you show me an article proving the existence of “unstable” black hole that can suddenly develop giant spikes against everything physics would tells us about how they work.