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2025 JJK Upgrade CRT

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Arkenis said:
She can create a BH and then increase its mass and that be the BH which she can't resist. No issue there.
Click to expand...
The context is black hole.

Not black hole with "this particular mass".

Also extremely inconsistent. As it would mean she could punch at those levels since she's not affected at those levels.
 
MrTayman616 said:
The context is black hole.

Not black hole with "this particular mass".

Also extremely inconsistent. As it would mean she could punch at those levels since she's not affected at those levels.
Click to expand...
The context is creating one and then increasing the mass further as we see.

And a full health Yuki can punch at those levels yeah.

Da3ggman said:
Dude wtf why did you blow the load of JJK upgrades already? We were still in the process of planning and shit 😭
Click to expand...
Please tell me what you had that was for this crt besides the already accepted calcs I'm using here lmao. I was planning this crt since the BH calc got accepted.
 
Da3ggman said:
Dude wtf why did you blow the load of JJK upgrades already? We were still in the process of planning and shit 😭
Click to expand...
9w4dq5.jpg


Arkenis said:
And a full health Yuki can punch at those levels yeah.
Click to expand...
...What? Then argue for tier 6 - tier 5 punches without dying lmao.

I'm going to sleep, lost my ability to think and only memes comes to my mind rn.
 
Arkenis said:
Please tell me what you had that was for this crt besides the already accepted calcs I'm using here lmao. I was planning this crt since the BH calc got accepted.
Click to expand...
Well, from what I understood, we (everytime I say we I mean the JJK community here) weren’t even going to start with upgrades like this.

We were going to get the canon regarding the anime and JJK: Phantom Parade, since that would allow for even more feats and support depending on how those went. Then, we’d establish a UES for Cursed Energy to allow for things like Mai’s bullets and Yorozu’s creations to potentially help out, as well as generally give better stats through them scaling physically to their attacks.

Finally, we would go for something big like this, which would hopefully go far more smoothly with the other threads having gone through and various revisions to the series being made.

Upgrading a popular verse like JJK this much higher takes time and help man, you shouldn’t just go and try to do it all in one fell swoop (well, you can, but most of the time it ends up being like this). I ain’t hating on you or anything, it just probably would’ve been better to talk this out more on the general discussion thread.
 
Da3ggman said:
Well, from what I understood, we (everytime I say we I mean the JJK community here) weren’t even going to start with upgrades like this.

We were going to get the canon regarding the anime and JJK: Phantom Parade, since that would allow for even more feats and support depending on how those went. Then, we’d establish a UES for Cursed Energy to allow for things like Mai’s bullets and Yorozu’s creations to potentially help out, as well as generally give better stats through them scaling physically to their attacks.

Finally, we would go for something big like this, which would hopefully go far more smoothly with the other threads having gone through and various revisions to the series being made.

Upgrading a popular verse like JJK this much higher takes time and help man, you shouldn’t just go and try to do it all in one fell swoop (well, you can, but most of the time it ends up being like this). I ain’t hating on you or anything, it just probably would’ve been better to talk this out more on the general discussion thread.
Click to expand...
Not to get into it but the game getting accepted for feats not in the manga is unlikely going by the rules of canon. And UES was rejected so doubt either of these will be accepted but who knows. I have talked this out somewhat with the one who calced the Kenjaku feat and the Mechmaru calc lmao and got an opinion from Duedate.
 
Arkenis said:
Not to get into it but the game getting accepted for feats not in the manga is unlikely going by the rules of canon
Click to expand...
The game is pretty unambiguously canon to the anime, and if the anime gets accepted as canon to the manga (very likely given how much Gege works with them and glazes it), then it could probably be secondary canon.
Arkenis said:
And UES was rejected so doubt either of these will be accepted but who knows.
Click to expand...
While it was technically rejected, that was mostly due to the thread itself being dropped in favor of just creating a new one with better and more cohesive arguments.
 
This site is cooked with JJK bro, people are forced to admit a black hole is real because the verse is so explicit but refuse to admit it existed in a panel where there blatantly appears to be a black hole (just, uh, smaller) cause of, what, a character being alive enough to talk a bit during it? Dang guess we could just do an even higher calculation for Yuki if you think it's so impressive.

Nobody really explains why Kenjaku's stuff is torn up afterwards, further context also supports that Kenajku didn't immediately use anti gravity. Kenjaku's whole method for having the anti gravity work was a utilisation of barrier techniques, which Tengen would absolutely be able to see through, yet they had to ask what Kenjaku did after it all was over (perhaps because the event horizon already enclosed him???!!!!).

Like his face is literally getting sucked on panel come on now what is this lol.

Also, ngl, if it was another verse you people would use the many examples that show JJK has a UES and scale the verse to either the black hole or at least the power of Kenjaku's anti gravity. But alas.

EDIT: Seems one of the arguments is "she was generating gravity but not the black hole in the scene where there is a cascading blackness around her and that's what was sucking Kenjaku". Kinda funny ngl.
 
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Tago238 said:
This site is cooked with JJK bro, people are forced to admit a black hole is real because the verse is so explicit but refuse to admit it existed in a panel where there blatantly appears to be a black hole (just, uh, smaller) cause of, what, a character being alive enough to talk a bit during it? Dang guess we could just do an even higher calculation for Yuki if you think it's so impressive.
Click to expand...
Ah yes, a black hole with 12 quadrillion times the gravitational acceleration of Earth barely cracking the pavement and waiting for Supersonic+ characters to finish their dramatic monologues despite one of them apparently not even having lungs anymore 😭

Totally no legitimate reason to doubt this.

Tago238 said:
Like his face is literally getting sucked on panel come on now what is this lol.
Click to expand...
I don’t know why the existence of gravity outside of black holes is a revelation to so many people.
 
Epyriel said:
Ah yes, a black hole with 12 quadrillion times the gravitational acceleration of Earth barely cracking the pavement and waiting for Supersonic+ characters to finish their dramatic monologues despite one of them apparently not even having lungs anymore 😭

Totally no legitimate reason to doubt this.


I don’t know why the existence of gravity outside of black holes is a revelation to so many people.
Click to expand...
Bro it hadn't disintegrated everything in ONE panel, the very next second it has consumed everything in the barrier and was stated to be capable of destroying the world. We scale OPM to a black hole that didn't do shit because GRBs were described relatively well. We've scaled plenty of shit to black holes when they don't destroy everything in more than, like, a single flaming panel.

Your argument relies on the black hole which was created, accurately described, fits out standards in everyway, fit the purview of destruction, etc was just... not a black hole when it was smaller and while Yuki was talking about creating a black hole because of small nitpicks that apply for like a page. Well done.

You even started yapping about Yuki talking when her lungs got blown out which is entirely irrelevant, you're clearly just pointlessly nitpicking to support the most backwards conclusion possible.

Not to assume intentions, but you actually just don't believe this. Nobody could.
 
Epyriel said:
Ah yes, a black hole with 12 quadrillion times the gravitational acceleration of Earth barely cracking the pavement and waiting for Supersonic+ characters to finish their dramatic monologues despite one of them apparently not even having lungs anymore 😭

Totally no legitimate reason to doubt this.
Click to expand...
Like I said in another thread,
Just on the topic of LS and KE feats, an author can't keep destroying cities and the landscape just to show us "See this character? They've got Class P jumps". This is asking for an absurd degree of consistency in visualization. And also authors do know these feats require force to be done, it not being done to a realistic representation shouldn't be what undermines the calculation otherwise.
Click to expand...
Not every feat needs to be done how you want it to show the strength of a character. Your gripe is with physics and fiction. nothing is absurd here.
Click to expand...
Same idea as before; the author isn't going to show us 10+ characters performing massive destruction feats to satisfy you. This not only is an absurd demand for scaling, but it would be a blatant ignoring of the major feats performed in a series. I agree we shouldn't rely on these feats if there are very few of them like two meanwhile there are things to contradict them.
Click to expand...
Every feat in fiction, damn near 90% don't show us proper destruction when physics like this comes into play. Almost ZERO BH depictions in fiction show it ripping apart the world in seconds. So no, just because the world isn't dying on panel (something that would be time consuming to draw each panel) is not a good reason against rejecting the calc.

I feel like BH page needs a huge disclaimer "Hey we know most BH in fiction don't destroy the planet lol, still acceptable"
 
Tago238 said:
Bro it hadn't disintegrated everything in ONE panel, the very next second it has consumed everything in the barrier and was stated to be capable of destroying the world. We scale OPM to a black hole that didn't do shit because GRBs were described relatively well. We've scaled plenty of shit to black holes when they don't destroy everything in more than, like, a single flaming panel.
Click to expand...
Dude, the entire calc is based off of that one frame.

It is specifically trying to calc Kenjaku resisting the pull of gravity before he activates his technique.

No one is doubting she turns into a black hole, what is doubtful is she instantly goes from human density to the mass of 42 Earths the instant she grabs his leg and starts monologuing despite nothing lining up with a black hole yet (both speed and DC wise).

Less than a tenth of the mass of the Earth would look and act exactly the same visually, and make sense narratively as Yuki adds and adds more and more virtual mass to herself building up to the black hole that she herself states she can’t withstand (yet is currently withstanding).

Arkenis said:
Every feat in fiction, damn near 90% don't show us proper destruction when physics like this comes into play. Almost ZERO BH depictions in fiction show it ripping apart the world in seconds. So no, just because the world isn't dying on panel (something that would be time consuming to draw each panel) is not a good reason against rejecting the calc.

I feel like BH page needs a huge disclaimer "Hey we know most BH in fiction don't destroy the planet lol, still acceptable"
Click to expand...
You don’t get to have your cake and eat it too, you are using real world physics to try and highball characters despite the physics not at all making any sense in this scene.

VSBW’s own Black Hole Feats page states:
While a completely correct depiction can not be expected, some basic laws have to be followed.
Click to expand...
 
Arkenis said:
Like I said in another thread,



Every feat in fiction, damn near 90% don't show us proper destruction when physics like this comes into play. Almost ZERO BH depictions in fiction show it ripping apart the world in seconds. So no, just because the world isn't dying on panel (something that would be time consuming to draw each panel) is not a good reason against rejecting the calc.

I feel like BH page needs a huge disclaimer "Hey we know most BH in fiction don't destroy the planet lol, still acceptable"
Click to expand...
The funny thing is in JJK they go as far to say it would have destroyed the planet, it just didn't immediately, which shouldn't really matter as anything more than a nitpick because obviously it was a valid black hole and it was growing into the full black hole in those panels. The argument of the offence relies on the assumption that there was blackness extending from Yuki for absolutely no reason.
 
Epyriel said:
Dude, the entire calc is based off of that one frame.

It is specifically trying to calc Kenjaku resisting the pull of gravity before he activates his technique.

No one is doubting she turns into a black hole, what is doubtful is she instantly goes from human density to the mass of 42 Earths the instant she grabs his leg and starts monologuing despite nothing lining up with a black hole yet (both speed and DC wise).
Click to expand...
Yeah what you're using are hilariously munor nitpicks (which don't even work since its stated later Yuki could sort of control the black hole through her will anyway, hence the range was limited, but I shouldn't have to say this because your argument doesn't validate a response like that, it'd be a gross act of sanewashing to have a back and forth on that) to say that the black hole you accept as real was just... not a black hole when Yuki was talking about creating a black hole and a void of blackness was extending from her. These nitpicks don't invalidate anything for any other verse.

As said, you don't believe this. You can't believe there was not a black hole in those panels, no human could.
 
Tago238 said:
The funny thing is in JJK they go as far to say it would have destroyed the planet, it just didn't immediately, which shouldn't really matter as anything more than a nitpick because obviously it was a valid black hole and it was growing into the full black hole in those panels.
Click to expand...
No it doesn’t, actually Kenjaku says Yuki and Tengen suppressed it so it wouldn’t.

Tago238 said:
The argument of the offence relies on the assumption that there was blackness extending from Yuki for absolutely no reason.
Click to expand...
Quick question, what do you think a person with the mass of the moon looks like?
 
Epyriel said:
You don’t get to have your cake and eat it too, you are using real world physics to try and highball characters despite the physics not at all making any sense in this scene.

VSBW’s own Black Hole Feats page states:
Click to expand...
You would be the one eating the cake and having it too while you do not give me my piece because you think the piece I cut looks bigger when in reality it's similar to every other piece, mine just has more frosting lmao.

As I talked about before, physics generally is never followed in fiction. This is a non-argument, your issue is with fiction and not the feat.

While a completely correct depiction can not be expected, some basic laws have to be followed.
Click to expand...
0208-011.png
0208-012.png
0208-013.png

This does explain basic laws. It literally gets to a huge aspect of BH, their mass and density.
 
Epyriel said:
Dude, the entire calc is based off of that one frame.

It is specifically trying to calc Kenjaku resisting the pull of gravity before he activates his technique.

No one is doubting she turns into a black hole, what is doubtful is she instantly goes from human density to the mass of 42 Earths the instant she grabs his leg and starts monologuing despite nothing lining up with a black hole yet (both speed and DC wise).

Less than a tenth of the mass of the Earth would look and act exactly the same visually, and make sense narratively as Yuki adds and adds more and more virtual mass to herself building up to the black hole that she herself states she can’t withstand (yet is currently withstanding).


You don’t get to have your cake and eat it too, you are using real world physics to try and highball characters despite the physics not at all making any sense in this scene.

VSBW’s own Black Hole Feats page states:
Click to expand...
images


-Called verbatim a black hole
-Described exactly like a black hole
-Created exactly how a black hole could be created (lots of mass and density in a small space)
-Obliterates literally everything around it and would destroy the planet if not stopped by Yuki’s will
-“It doesn’t follow our rules for black holes”
Click to expand...

Chat is this reading comprehension
 
Epyriel said:
Quick question, what do you think a person with the mass of the moon looks like?
Click to expand...
Well the Schwarzschild radius of that would be 0.1mm so I don't imagine it would make things black no. I suppose light that isn't captured but is blueshifted enough to exit the visible spectrum would look the same to my eyes but given the equivalence principle I'm eyeballing that wouldn't make a terribly great difference.


Also, yeah, as a side note for people watching the thread. Kenjaku does indeed experience the thing we're talking about and say "a black hole!?" and this thread is seriously arguing over whether or not he was experiencing a black hole at that point.
 
Epyriel said:
Quick question, what do you think a person with the mass of the moon looks like?
Click to expand...
"Quick question, what do you think people who can house sextillions of joules of energy in their body looks like" I'll tell you one thing, they DONT look normal. Like basically any character on the wiki, NONE of them remotely match what they should look like. And also Yuki's body doesn't gain the mass till a certain point, she clearly reached that point buddy.
 
Tago238 said:
The argument of the offence relies on the assumption that there was blackness extending from Yuki for absolutely no reason.
Click to expand...
The argument of the offense would assuming the existence of that blackness implies the black hole already formed despite everything else saying it didn't


The calc falls under minor scrutiny, you're really just trying to negate the opposition by appealing to "fiction may work like this" without defining any rules or frameworks with which you can reliably use to argue your case

You're just assuming your conclusion and working back from there to justify it rather than deduce it using logical premises

"fiction may work like this so if we ignore the clear objective signs of the scene not following my interpretation of it under the vaage misused argument that fiction ignore logic so logic should be ignored, my interpretation is fine"


like honestly it gets annoying after some point of the same exact argument being used to dismiss counterevidence


tho i don't really like the straw mans used here against epyriel-

i am fairly certain he didn't deny the black hole was made, he denied the assertion that it was made in the scene everyone is spamming him with

with which you dissmissed his concerns with a nothing burger tbh
 
Passersby said:
The argument of the offense would assuming the existence of that blackness implies the black hole already formed despite everything else saying it didn't


The calc falls under minor scrutiny, you're really just trying to negate the opposition by appealing to "fiction may work like this" without defining any rules or frameworks with which you can reliably use to argue your case

You're just assuming your conclusion and working back from there to justify it rather than deduce it using logical premises

"fiction may work like this so if we ignore the clear objective signs of the scene not following my interpretation of it under the vaage misused argument that fiction ignore logic so logic should be ignored, my interpretation is fine"


like honestly it gets annoying after some point of the same exact argument being used to dismiss counterevidence


tho i don't really like the straw mans used here against epyriel-

i am fairly certain he didn't deny the black hole was made, he denied the assertion that it was made in the scene everyone is spamming him with

with which you dissmissed his concerns with a nothing burger tbh
Click to expand...
A lot of these sentences are either incoherent or unjustified assertions/ attacks and don't seem to be paying attention to what I said so I can't reply to this.


At the end of the day you lot accept it's a black hole but it wasn't a black hole when blackness was surrounding Yuki, she referenced creating a black hole and Kenjaku while resisting it thought to himself "a black hole!?". So, like, yeah I don't think I'm the one "assuming [my] conclusion and working back from there to justify it rather than deduce it using logical premises". Think for a second about what the more likely interpretation is here.
 
Arkenis said:
"Quick question, what do you think people who can house sextillions of joules of energy in their body looks like" I'll tell you one thing, they DONT look normal. Like basically any character on the wiki, NONE of them remotely match what they should look like. And also Yuki's body doesn't gain the mass till a certain point, she clearly reached that point buddy.
Click to expand...
and a quick note-
a person with the mass of the moon would like nothing because they'd be dead

which would happen to yuki per the setting's own rules

which i will then use to come back to this

i never denied any of the supernatural feats happening in verse because we see them happening, i said your logic for scaling and your interpreation is faulty because it falls under minor scrutiny and it basically ignores physics to get a desired result that was never even proven to be, to say that again, i never denied the supernatural properties that exists in the verse just because they can't logically happen, a character's capabilities are informed by the scope of their settings, there's room for supernatural things, that I never denied, you're arguing with mid air, FTL travel and magic are both of these, they're allowable by the nature of what fiction is, for example in the garou vs flashy flash and platinium sperm fight we're given an explicit timeframe in which the events happened in so we know they're faster than litght, we can therefore conclude that Garou can go faster than light in an atmosphere without causing the relveant side effects that such a movement speed would imply, we don't know how he does it, but he does, that can never be denied

That doesn't mean you can't calculate either of these phenomena, a calculation should have predictive value, you need to build a hypothesis, find evidence , and quantify it,quantifying said evidence requires a frame of reference for it be meaningful, which is physics and, said frame of reference is applicable unless otherwise noted by the story, setting, or characters within, if the calculation and assumptions falls apart under minor scrutiny the base assumptions or conclusions provided are most likely flawed , which is the case here, you're just making up whatever interpretation to try and justify the event based on what you want them to be-that won't make it anymore valid,You can't prove it, you've got no justification for it and you're randomly deciding that it's true and working your way backwards from there to justify it, which isn't exactly how it works, that's circular and insane
Click to expand...

i'm honestly very happy i wrote this, it helps a lot in these situations
 
Epyriel said:
No one is doubting she turns into a black hole, what is doubtful is she instantly goes from human density to the mass of 42 Earths the instant she grabs his leg and starts monologuing despite nothing lining up with a black hole yet (both speed and DC wise).
Click to expand...
Epyriel said:
The argument isn’t that she doesn’t form a black hole, but rather that she isn’t already a black hole while still monologuing to Kenjaku while still actively ramping up her technique.
Click to expand...
Da3ggman said:
images


-Called verbatim a black hole
-Described exactly like a black hole
-Created exactly how a black hole could be created (lots of mass and density in a small space)
-Obliterates literally everything around it and would destroy the planet if not stopped by Yuki’s will
-“It doesn’t follow our rules for black holes”

Chat is this reading comprehension
Click to expand...


Chat is this reading comprehension?
 
Tago238 said:
A lot of these sentences are either incoherent or unjustified assertions/ attacks and don't seem to be paying attention to what I said so I can't reply to this
Click to expand...

point them out so i can fix them bro

Tago238 said:
At the end of the day you lot accept it's a black hole but it wasn't a black hole when blackness was surrounding Yuki.
Click to expand...
correct
Tago238 said:
she referenced creating a black hole and Kenjaku while resisting it thought to himself "a black hole!?".
Click to expand...

correct
Tago238 said:
So, like, yeah I don't think I'm the one "assuming [my] conclusion and working back from there to justify it rather than deduce it using logical premises". Think for a second about what the more likely interpretation is here.
Click to expand...
how do the previous premises imply the black hole already formed?
 
Arkenis said:
"Quick question, what do you think people who can house sextillions of joules of energy in their body looks like" I'll tell you one thing, they DONT look normal.
Click to expand...
Arkenis said:
And also Yuki's body doesn't gain the mass till a certain point, she clearly reached that point buddy.
Click to expand...
That is exactly my point which you seemed to have missed.

A person with the mass of the moon would be depicted much the same way.

They would look like a black pit of density, and would have a significant gravitational force.

And yet still wouldn’t be even close to dense enough to form a black hole.
 
Da3ggman said:
Dawg you literally said “the physics don’t make sense in this scene” what physics don’t make sense exactly?
Click to expand...
He seemed to miss the page where Kenjaku is experiencing the thing and says "a black hole!?". This wiki is so cooked man.

I'm not sure where the accurate physics is in the interpretation of an arbitrary, unrelated blackness surrounding Yuki .I can see neither the logic, nor the reading comprehension too.
 
Tago238 said:
He seemed to miss the page where Kenjaku is experiencing the thing and says "a black hole!?". This wiki is so cooked man.
Click to expand...
Did you somehow miss the entire prior page where Yuki is explaining exactly where she is going with this?

Predicting what is about to form ≠ what is currently formed.
 
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