Minecraft Steve/The Player AP Upgrade

[Rogue_Forge]

I noticed that The Player (Steve) had a durability of 8-C but an AP of 9-A

Steve's regular punches deal more damage than llamas attacks while llamas are at 8-C and Steve's critical attacks deal 2 damage which is almost the same as zombies (3) and can be higher than skeletons (fluctuates between 1-5 damage per shot)

This might be a bit of a stretch --> Also you can scale durability to ap by using a 3 man system; character B hurts Character A, Character C takes hits from B and Character A Hurts C.

Steve gets hurt by Zombies, Villagers take hits from Zombies, Steve can hurt villagers, ergo AP ≈ Durability.

Either way most character pages equalize AP and durability so I don't get why Steve is different.

Agree: Arkansalter2, OrangeFR, Speedblitzer50, Vyfourthaccount

Agree for "Possibly", "up to", "At most", "with crits" and whatever else: IDK3465, Ednaxel2, Delusionaltx2

Disagree:

Neutral:

 

[OrangeFR]

This seems logical to me

 

[Speedblitzer50]

Agree

 

[IDK3465]

Considering llamas are actually 9-A, likely 8-C, and that Steve can only somewhat match zombies and skeletons via critical hits, it may be better to list it as something like "9-A to 8-C physically" rather than solidly 8-C.
Otherwise, agree.

 

[StarShooter80]

I think an at most rating would work best, either that or 9-A possibly 8-C like IDK3465 said

 

[Vyfourthaccount]

I agree

 

[Keeweed]

I’ve always found 9-A Steve weird because like, killing some one in 10 to 20 hits sounds like a pretty solid reason to scale. How many punches would it take a normal person to kill another person. Especially since silverfish do their feat pretty causally.
Many games have punches deal tickle damage, is the chosen undead 9-C without a weapon since he deals 2 to 3 damage? Why is steve like this

 

[Lou_change]

Steve's regular punches deal more damage than llamas attacks while llamas are at 8-C

Both do 1 damage

Steve gets hurt by Zombies, Villagers take hits from Zombies, Steve can hurt villagers, ergo AP ≈ Durability.

I mean the original value for durability is the player barely survives a ghast fireball if they are in the center and aren't directly impacted I am pretty sure zombies scale lower ap wise.

Either way most character pages equalize AP and durability so I don't get why Steve is different.

It's more so because they have to be able to survive their own attack potency

 

[IDK3465]

I’ve always found 9-A Steve weird because like, killing some one in 10 to 20 hits sounds like a pretty solid reason to scale. How many punches would it take a normal person to kill another person. Especially since silverfish do their feat pretty causally.
Many games have punches deal tickle damage, is the chosen undead 9-C without a weapon since he deals 2 to 3 damage? Why is steve like this

Really, that's just kinda the thing with scaling in videogames (especially more sandboxy ones like Minecraft) in that what can theoretically happen or is programmed into the game, doesn't necessarily reflect what is intended in-universe. This is discussed in more detail in our Game Mechanics page. But basically, just because a character can damage another in-game or tank an attack from another, doesn't mean they can scale; you need at least SOME lore evidence or common sense to justify it.

Besides, there are so many other problems I've found within how we currently treat Minecraft's scaling to the point that I'm probably gonna make my own CRT to deal with it.

 

[Keeweed]

Yeah. But in this case it’s literally, can the main character hurt themselves. Which in this case is really true, you can kill each other in 10 to 20 punches max.

 

[IDK3465]

Yeah. But in this case it’s literally, can the main character hurt themselves. Which in this case is really true, you can kill each other in 10 to 20 punches max.

I mean, yeah, that’s true. But you still need to think about weather this actually makes sense or is the intent lore-wise.
For example, if we hypothetically said that Steve’s basic, non-crit punches scale to 8-C because of how many hits it takes to kill another player, then Zombies would all be glass cannons as they can deal more damage than Steve despite having the exact same health. This doesn’t make sense as there’s no indication that Zombies are damaged by the recoil of their strikes, which should be expected for a character like this. This is why I decided to compromise by saying that only Steve’s highest damage output scales, as it’s more in-line with what is intended to be the case.

 

[Lou_change]

Yeah. But in this case it’s literally, can the main character hurt themselves. Which in this case is really true, you can kill each other in 10 to 20 punches max.

I guess

 

[Keeweed]

I mean, yeah, that’s true. But you still need to think about weather this actually makes sense or is the intent lore-wise.
For example, if we hypothetically said that Steve’s basic, non-crit punches scale to 8-C because of how many hits it takes to kill another player, then Zombies would all be glass cannons as they can deal more damage than Steve despite having the exact same health. This doesn’t make sense as there’s no indication that Zombies are damaged by the recoil of their strikes, which should be expected for a character like this. This is why I decided to compromise by saying that only Steve’s highest damage output scales, as it’s more in-line with what is intended to be the case.

Or they would just be stronger than Steve. They are already weaker than the ghast explosions just not by a not scaling amount since Steve can consistently be slain by zombies but survive ghast explosions

 

[IDK3465]

Or they would just be stronger than Steve. They are already weaker than the ghast explosions just not by a not scaling amount since Steve can consistently be slain by zombies but survive ghast explosions

I agree with you that zombies are superior to Steve, that’s very much evident, I just wanted to make it clear that simply relying on in-game health and damage values or wether or not a character can theoretically kill another in-game is not always a viable metric for scaling

Sorry for dragging this out so long, but I just want to prevent any messiness that inevitably comes from game mechanics.

 

[Rogue_Forge]

Bump

 

[Rogue_Forge]

I agree with you that zombies are superior to Steve, that’s very much evident, I just wanted to make it clear that simply relying on in-game health and damage values or wether or not a character can theoretically kill another in-game is not always a viable metric for scaling

I know its been a long time but I completely forgot about this thread so I'll reply to this now

In canon, Steve should be just as strong if not stronger than Zombies because they're literally the rotting corpse version of Steve, so in canon he actually scales ABOVE zombies, of course this would then bring up "But the zombies do more damage!!" in which case I would say "yeah but base Steve can survive hits from the ender dragon because it only deals (X) damage" so In canon Steve would scale to zombies regardless of damage values or not

Anyway, sorry for responding so late, I don't even really care about this thread anymore, its kind of old and I've forgot about it

 

[Lou_change]

I know its been a long time but I completely forgot about this thread so I'll reply to this now

In canon, Steve should be just as strong if not stronger than Zombies because they're literally the rotting corpse version of Steve, so in canon he actually scales ABOVE zombies, of course this would then bring up "But the zombies do more damage!!" in which case I would say "yeah but base Steve can survive hits from the ender dragon because it only deals (X) damage" so In canon Steve would scale to zombies regardless of damage values or not

Anyway, sorry for responding so late, I don't even really care about this thread anymore, its kind of old and I've forgot about it

No we shouldn't use appearances to justify ratings if feats contradict it.

 

[Rogue_Forge]

No we shouldn't use appearances to justify ratings if feats contradict it.

What does this even mean?

The feats don't contradict anything Steve can easily kill zombies bare handed in game

 

[Lou_change]

The feats don't contradict anything Steve can easily kill zombies bare handed in game

Because steve for some reason can punch things 3 meters away from him that doesn't make him stronger it means he has a weird power

 

[IDK3465]

I know its been a long time but I completely forgot about this thread so I'll reply to this now

In canon, Steve should be just as strong if not stronger than Zombies because they're literally the rotting corpse version of Steve, so in canon he actually scales ABOVE zombies, of course this would then bring up "But the zombies do more damage!!" in which case I would say "yeah but base Steve can survive hits from the ender dragon because it only deals (X) damage" so In canon Steve would scale to zombies regardless of damage values or not

Anyway, sorry for responding so late, I don't even really care about this thread anymore, its kind of old and I've forgot about it

I actually disagree with this, zombies in media are very often shown to be superior in strength to regular humans, so saying that Steve should be stronger here isn’t really justified. Again, I believe a good workaround for this is for us to say that only Steve’s critical hits scale to his durability, as it would explain why he is simultaneously only a bit stronger than a silverfish but also able to harm other players that can tank fireballs

I plan on revising Minecraft’s scaling as a whole anyway, which would include where base Steve is at, so we should all probably just move on from this thread.

 

[ByArrow]

I plan on revising Minecraft’s scaling as a whole anyway, which would include where base Steve is at, so we should all probably just move on from this thread.

Bump?

 

[IDK3465]

Bump?

IM WORKING ON IT OK (I’m more than halfway done with the scaling part of it at the very least, but the upcoming CRT is more than just scaling changes, so it’s gonna take awhile)

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Isn't 9-A up to 8-C with critical hits better instead of possibly?

 

[IDK3465]

Isn't 9-A up to 8-C with critical hits better instead of possibly?

I mean, that is how I was planning on doing it, yeah

 

[Arkansalter2]

This is logical. Agreed. It seems very silly that Steve's AP is only 9-A when, realistically, they can hurt each other.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Ngl after reading the thread I can understand why he has 9A ap (video games like these can be extremely weird to scale)

That said the fact steve can deal a significant amount of damage at all still leads me to believe he either downscales from 8C normally while being up to 8C with crits and stuff or should only be "up to" 8C" or something like that at the very least

for the most part I vote on the idea on steve being "up to" 8C or "at most "8C" normally while being netural on the idea of him just scaling to 8C regularly

 

[Vyfourthaccount]

This is logical. Agreed. It seems very silly that Steve's AP is only 9-A when, realistically, they can hurt each other.

He can also deflect ghast fireballs while barehanded