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All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

Ednaxel2 said:
I know he asked that after asking if the universe is infinite or not. But that question can still be a general one, he never specifies or implies "guidebook statements for infinite universe"
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If we’re having a conversation about the wikis stance on DBS’ infinite universe then I’m assuming his questions are pertaining to the relevant evidence from the guidebooks he’s asking about.
 
Da3ggman said:
Inconsistent in “Certain mods have a hate boner for DB and cling onto any minutia of something to deny it” kind of way.
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Don't forget blatantly biased users coming from other franchises that they wank to create nothing but downgrade attempts, exclusively argue against Dragon Ball characters in versus threads, and then turn around and act aloof and obtuse when they get called out on their behavior.

That or people that still talk like its 2017 tumblr
 
Ednaxel2 said:
They're not, we use guidebooks very frequently

Only for canon are the universes finite, but for Toei and the games the macrocosms are infinite in size. This is because in Toei the statements on the universe having an edge by Bulma do not appear, unlike DBS.
Here are some threads to give context:
vsbattles.com

Infinite Universe (Easy Route)

Toeiverse Universe So this thread is gonna be exclusively about the toei cosmology, since I don’t want to get into the controversy of Super right now. It runs through more smoothly if I focus on this one instead. Why should the Universe be considered infinite? There are a multitude of...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
vsbattles.com

『INFINITE UNIVERSE IN DRAGON BALL SUPER』

I'll be simple and direct here: The Dragon Ball Universe is cited several times as having an Infinite Universe both in extension and in "base" size the only contradictions in this exist (as far as i can remember) ONLY in the anime, where Super Shenlong is invoked and we catch a glimpse of the...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
Though I must say I disagree with canon macrocosms not being infinite in size.
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Ok thanks
 
Ednaxel2 said:
If only
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I don't know how exactly how to describe it, but its just you can tell when someone uses tumblr, they always give you 'works in retail and cant properly regulate their emotions or mental state' vibes

Bonus points if they hate their parents, siblings, or general family
 
About the BOG movie being canon to GT, well, one could argue the movie is connected to the series given how frequently Chozenshuu/Toei connects them in the same timeline, not just one, but multiple times. The "Its been retconned" argument falls flat becouse the DBS Anime literally rewrites the entire movie and adapts it into Super. So both are clearly different continuities.

Guys, many of you don't accept it becouse "it doesn't make sense to you" in your mind, but creators do not care about this, not only in Dragon Ball but in many pieces of fiction creators ignore massive plotholes between continuities and connect them in a single timeline.

If the creators of Mario say all the Marios that appeared throughout different medias are the same Mario (which happened) despite the massive contradictions, then they are.

The opinion of a random Weabo doesn't hold much water against this. It baffles me, becouse we are literally no one to argue aginst the people that own the series.
 
Huesito88 said:
Death of the author is a thing, not saying it applies in this situation though
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Well, Toriyama said he trusted Toei guides and Chōzenshū/Daizenshu guides more than himself.

I feel that we are the stupid ones, trying to fix Toei's/Toriyama's mess, when they don't even care about it. We end up creating our headcanons in the end, even if those appear to be a logical solution for what essentially is bad writing.

Daizenshu/Chōzenshū considers Dead zone, Cooler and BOG as part of the Toei/GT timeline.

Yet we come up with our subjectivity trying to twist and mold those, or even outright rejecting them for being canon cuz it doesn't suit our thinking..

The people that own DB, never cared about canon
 
For the infinite size universe, I noticed that nobody in the thread tried to argue bubble theory to go against Bulma statements bruh. Saying she's stupid or something seems a bad argument as she is a high tech scientist that knows do time travel

 
Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
About the BOG movie being canon to GT, well, one could argue the movie is connected to the series given how frequently Chozenshuu/Toei connects them in the same timeline, not just one, but multiple times. The "Its been retconned" argument falls flat becouse the DBS Anime literally rewrites the entire movie and adapts it into Super. So both are clearly different continuities.
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Well there's also the Pilaf gang being younger in that film, when in GT they should be in a nursing home

But hey this is Toei Dragon Ball, retcons don't matter I guess
 
Ednaxel2 said:
Well there's also the Pilaf gang being younger in that film, when in GT they should be in a nursing home

But hey this is Toei Dragon Ball, retcons don't matter I guess
Click to expand...
As if DB creators ever cared about consistency.

If Toei and the Chōzenshū retcons and says BOG happened in GT (which they did in 2013), and that both Cooler and Dead zone also happened despite massive plotholes, we are no one to argue again them.
It's their product, they own it, they write it, and they choose the canon that they want.
Invaliditing this data for the sake of clarity is making our own assumptions and arguing against the owners of the series themselves.

We are just fans, random powerscalers in the Internet, we don't get to decide what Toei wants to include in their timelines or whatnot.

As fans of the series, we need to stop applying our standarts/headcanons to what's essentially just bad writing. Trying to fix Toei's mess ourselves will only make things worse.
 
Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
If Toei and the Chōzenshū retcons and says BOG happened in GT (which they did in 2013), and that both Cooler and Dead zone also happened despite massive plotholes, we are no one to argue again them.
It's their product, they own it, they write it, and they choose the canon that they want.
Invaliditing this data for the sake of clarity is making our own assumptions and arguing against the owners of the series themselves.

We are just fans, random powerscalers in the Internet, we don't get to decide what Toei wants to include in their timelines or whatnot.

As fans of the series, we need to stop applying our standarts/headcanons to what's essentially just bad writing. Trying to fix Toei's mess ourselves will only make things worse.
Click to expand...
So never question a source, blindly believe anything because it's official regardless of the issues that can occur. Great.
As if DB creators ever cared about consistency.
Click to expand...
Actually yes?
 
Ednaxel2 said:
So never question a source, blindly believe anything because it's official regardless of the issues that can occur. Great.
Click to expand...
Forcefully? Yes, you can choose to not believe them if you want, but, it's your word against theirs, and theirs will always take precendece above yours, doesn't matter what.
If they declare something happened, despite contradicting some timeline stuff, it needs to happen, regardless of it makes sense to us or not. We are not better trying to impose our fanmade timeline theories over official material.

Dragon Ball is a franchise run by a company that prioritizes what works for them, not what makes perfect sense to us.

Ednaxel2 said:
Actually yes?
Click to expand...
Sometimes yes, sometimes not, my point still stands.
 
Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
We end up creating our headcanons in the end, even if those appear to be a logical solution for what essentially is bad writing.
Click to expand...
The issue is that power scaling, or canon debating requires some form of logic. So if you say, well there’s no logic in the first place, then wtf are we doing scaling it at all
 
Tuxidoe_Redo said:
For the infinite size universe, I noticed that nobody in the thread tried to argue bubble theory to go against Bulma statements bruh. Saying she's stupid or something seems a bad argument as she is a high tech scientist that knows do time travel

Click to expand...

This isn’t the route you want to go with imo. You’d end up downgrading the entire db multiverse to only low 2-c
 
StekFence said:
The issue is that power scaling, or canon debating requires some form of logic. So if you say, well there’s no logic in the first place, then wtf are we doing scaling it at all
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Powerscaling is based on subjective stands overall, just that some points have more weight/evidence than others.

And yeah, you can't expect logic in fiction.
 
Ednaxel2 said:
If Toriyama told you Goku was purple would you believe him?
Click to expand...
yes

if-we-had-gotten-copy-goku-instead-of-copy-vegeta-in-dbs-v0-dwptdzm02y7d1.png
 
Ednaxel2 said:
If Toriyama told you Goku was purple would you believe him?
Click to expand...



"If Toriyama told you Goku is purple, would you believe him?" argument is a false equivalence meant to mock trust in official sources. More knowing that Toriyama would obviously said something like this jokingly.

You are comparing apples with oranges here....Acepting canon doesn’t mean blindly believing absurdities, it means recognizing that the creators have authority over their own fictional universe, even if their decisions are inconsistent or flawed. If they officially state something within the context of the story (like BoG happening before GT), it becomes canon for that continuity.
 
Ednaxel2 said:
Touché. But really though an author or company can only have so much say on a story, and if the story/series contradicts them then it's wraps in most cases
Click to expand...
Yes, but them retconing timeline stuff after a series ended just means that, that they don't care about the contradictions that may arise. And they officially believe that both works take place within the same universe.

Doesn't matter the contradictions that may arise. Not only they did this with BOG.
They also connected GT with Fusion reborn and the Super 13 movie in the GT DVD Box, aswell as other GT guides like Heroe's legacy, etc. (Mind you, specifically made for the GT verse, not the Z Anime, guides made specifically only for GT).
So yeah, they do not care about consistency.

And I will say this again, their official statements >>>Our headcanons.

You can accept it or not, but this doesn't deny facts
 
Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
You are comparing apples with oranges here....Acepting canon doesn’t mean blindly believing absurdities, it means recognizing that the creators have authority over their own fictional universe, even if their decisions are inconsistent or flawed. If they officially state something within the context of the story (like BoG happening before GT), it becomes canon for that continuity.
Click to expand...
Just because they said so, that's all, that's your argument. Disregarding anything that goes against what they said is just plain ignorant because by default the story has more significance over itself, than any other source like an author.

The purple Goku example is an exaggeration but the point still stands, it's a change that retcons the story, so taking the author's opinion on the story over the story itself in that regard is flawed
 
Ednaxel2 said:
Just because they said so, that's all, that's your argument. Disregarding anything that goes against what they said is just plain ignorant because by default the story has more significance over itself, than any other source like an author.

The purple Goku example is an exaggeration but the point still stands, it's a change that retcons the story, so taking the author's opinion on the story over the story itself in that regard is flawed
Click to expand...
Again, no. Who creates the story? The authors. Who owns it? The authors.

But in this case we are talking about Toei. Toei is a multi billionare company that has hundreds of screen workers, writers, etc. If they say it's like this, then it's like this lol. Toei it's just not one writer, it's multiple, just like the Chōzenshū/Daizenshu and other works who Toriyama called more reliable than himself.

I will say it again, Toei's words are above ours.
 
Last edited:
Tuxidoe_Redo said:
How
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aight, so basically, bubble theory as I understand it states that the universe, and any other universe existing a single space time. So something like uni 7 wouldn’t be its own space time, but instead all 12 universes would simply be 1/12 of the total space time. There’s some other spaces out there but you get the point.
 
Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
Again, no. Who creates the story? The authors. Who owns it? The authors.

But in this case we are talking about Toei. Toei is a multi billionare company that has hundreds of screen workers, writers, etc. If they say it's like this, then it's like this lol. Toei it's just not one writer, it's multiple, just like the Chōzenshū/Daizenshu and other works who Toriyama called more reliable than himself.

I will say it again, Toei's words are above ours.
Click to expand...
You keep saying that this is “us” saying this but all anyone is doing is pointing out the issues that occur for the story if we accept anything the author or owners of a story dictate as true. They should not come before the primary material it’s as simple as that
 
StekFence said:
aight, so basically, bubble theory as I understand it states that the universe, and any other universe existing a single space time. So something like uni 7 wouldn’t be its own space time, but instead all 12 universes would simply be 1/12 of the total space time. There’s some other spaces out there but you get the point.
Click to expand...
Source?
 
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