Dragon Ball: Spiritual Energy

[Chariot190]

I mean, it is soul manipulation
It's just very bad soul manip that can't really be used for anything offensively (beyond pew pew ki).

Self soul manip is a thing, as long as the profiles actually explain the soul manip is just using their own soul to exude a spiritual energy that forms a facet of ki, it should be fine? A few notwithstanding obviously, some dudes can actually **** with the souls of others, but someone like Freeza ain't doing that.
Tbh kind of redundant actually but shrug, it technically isn't wrong.

Well, Chariot only disagrees with Intangibility

but he has no problem with soul manipulation, in fact he even said that ectoplasm manipulation seems decent

I agree with ectoplasm on the basis the the dude on pg 1 that said daizenshuu straight up says it's ectoplasm is correct. Because at that point what's there to actually disagree with.
Honestly, all the yap in the OP about it should probably just be replaced with that scan.

 

[Damage3245]

Well, Chariot only disagrees with Intangibility

but he has no problem with soul manipulation, in fact he even said that ectoplasm manipulation seems decent

I see.

Well, I think the Ectoplasm Manipulation should only extend as far as the Ghost Kamikaze attack itself; not a general property of all Ki Manipulation.

I mean, it is soul manipulation
It's just very bad soul manip that can't really be used for anything offensively (beyond pew pew ki).

Self soul manip is a thing, as long as the profiles actually explain the soul manip is just using their own soul to exude a spiritual energy that forms a facet of ki, it should be fine? A few notwithstanding obviously, some dudes can actually **** with the souls of others, but someone like Freeza ain't doing that.
Tbh kind of redundant actually but shrug, it technically isn't wrong.

It just seems better to label that as Energy Manipulation IMO.

 

[Chariot190]

I see.

Well, I think the Ectoplasm Manipulation should only extend as far as the Ghost Kamikaze attack itself; not a general property of all Ki Manipulation.

Uhm.
WAS Op saying all Ki attacks have ectoplasm? Because if so yeah I disagree, thought we were just saying SGKA had it.
obviously agree with it having it still, just not say death ball having it too.

 

[TheTenno07]

I see.

Well, I think the Ectoplasm Manipulation should only extend as far as the Ghost Kamikaze attack itself; not a general property of all Ki Manipulation.


It just seems better to label that as Energy Manipulation IMO.

Spiritual energy manipulation !!!!

 

[Spinoirr]

I mean, it is soul manipulation
It's just very bad soul manip that can't really be used for anything offensively (beyond pew pew ki).

Unconventional Limited Soul Manipulation basically?

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Unconventional Limited Soul Manipulation basically?

Why is it unconventional. It’s not like Shigaraki where he needs someone to invade his soul.

 

[MrTayman616]

Most of the things here don't refer to spirituality.

They talk about mind, will etc.

Some simply says Ki rather than "spirit" lmao.

Though there are some that actually states spirituality. Only those scans and results that comes from them should be accepted.

 

[MrTayman616]

Goku himself had to train and raise his spirit to become stronger.

This refers to his mentality, not soul.

when discussing training and strength, showing that they carry equivalent meaning.

He doesn't use "spirit" or anything related here in raws.

Goku himself had to train and raise his spirit to become stronger

The first one : It's greater "ki". Not soul/spirit.

The second one: It's talking about mind and body.

it’s stated that he increased both his physical and spiritual strength

It's talking about his energy. Nothing spiritual here.

Another striking moment comes when Vegeta's spirit shakes the Earth.

It's fighting spirit rather than spiritual. (Same as Metal Bat's fighting spirit from OPM).

Cell’s ki is also directly referred to as spirit, affirming that ki represents the spiritual presence of living beings.

Same as the other ones. It says that he emits "evil ki".

Goku’s ability to track others’ presence whether living or in Otherworld shows that he tries to sense spirits in the same way he tracks ki,

He talks about Cell's soul, yes. But not anything like "sense", it doesn't specify anything about it.

Goku seems to imply sensing ki is sensing spirit.

It doesn't say spirit.

This is supported by the moment Dabura powers up his ki, where the narration says he is raising his spirit

He says "Ki", not spirit.

In the battle against Dabura, Gohan unleashes a Kamehameha with his body and soul, depicting a full release of both physical and spiritual strength.

Doesn't have the raws for this, but even the way it's written is enough to see "body and soul" doesn't talk about spiritual strength here.

The Evil Containment Wave technique reinforces this connection. Kami borrowed Shen’s body by transferring his soul in order to seal Piccolo. When the technique was reversed, Kami had to release Shen’s body, and only his soul or spirit was sealed afterward. This demonstrates that ki-based techniques can directly affect the spirit. According to Daizenshuu 2, Evil Containment Wave targets the someone's ki. Even in Daizenshuu 4, Evil Containment Wave is categorized as a “variation of ki manipulation”, while Daizenshuu 7 classifies it as a “special technique”.

He borrowed someone's body via his soul, yeah.

One of the clearest examples of this relationship is Spirit Bomb, which is formed from the life force and spirit of living beings including those in the Otherworld, where only souls exist. Goku receives ki from these disembodied beings, proving that souls can generate and transfer ki, further cementing that ki and spirit are fundamentally the same.

Well, it means souls has ki, but i don't think it implies them to be the same. (Do those in afterlife die when they give too much ki etc. not as far as i remember. I mean that would mean using too much ki would cause them to get erased etc.)

Ectoplasm Manipulation
In Chozenshuu 4 (page 155), the phrase "エクトプラズム状の気" directly translates to “Ki in an ectoplasmic state/form”. Here, the term “ki” is unambiguously referring to the core energy system of Dragon Ball a fusion of life force and spiritual power. Since Ki originates from the soul/spirit, the moment it is shaped into a ghost-like, visible form, it naturally qualifies as ectoplasm by definition. The suffix “状” (jō) means “form” or “state”, which does not dismiss the term “ectoplasm” as mere visual flair, but rather emphasizes that the ki itself is being shaped into a ghost-like ectoplasmic state.

Because the ki is spiritual energy shaped into a sentient form, it is consistent with how ectoplasm is traditionally defined, as an extension of the soul. Additionally, Gotenks himself refers to these entities as “obake”, a term that denotes ghosts or spirits. While this might seem comedic or stylistic at first, the use of “obake” alongside “ectoplasm” isn't coincidental.

The way it is written, it's seemingly a statement based on the appearance rather than their essence. Not sure if this applies for ectoplasm manipulation.

Dragon Ball Super Manga
(Galactic Patrol Prisoner Saga)
Pybara from Planet Yardrat explains that “spirit” is what Goku refers to as “ki". Vegeta learns Spirit Control and learned technique called Forced Spirit Fission, a technique that allows him to negates fusion and absorption. When fighting Moro, he uses this technique to release stolen energy. More importantly, Moro is stated to absorb souls, as confirmed by Merus. Goku hears the terrifying voices of the absorbed souls inside Moro, and Vegeta confirms that the energy was from “spirit or soul". Vegeta then returns those spirits to their rightful places, clearly demonstrating that ki can directly interact with souls. Pybara also calls this “spirit energy".

They call it "スピリット". It can be the same in essence.

Moro is stated to steal not only souls, but energy etc as well. He might be taking everything at once, as Vegeta also says "those souls, those life energies" etc etc. I don't remember the arc much though. Might check it if it's important for the thread.

To round it out, we can look at non-canon material such as Episode of Bardock, Dead Zone Movie & GT Series. In Bardock’s case, ki and spirit are used interchangeably to describe his power.

It says "Ki", not spirit.

Don't know the other two non canon source and too lazy to check them :d

 

[SwordLegendz01]

Its come to my attention that this thread is missing some necessary information that does not align with the proposals I had in mind. This is also due to the thread being rushed and released prematurely, which in turn has caused some confusion among even the supporters of the thread and opponents. With this in mind, I will be putting this topic on a temporary hold, and it will be redone, and made to be more accurate in the future, followed by being released by a different member.

Can someone close this thread?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Can someone close this thread?

Done