Goku vs Wonder Woman REDUX • (0-0-0)

[MichaelCalistro]

This has happened before in Mar 19, 2020. Has the result changed?

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Goku, the Saiyan God

VS

Wonder Woman, the Warrior of Truth

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Granolah the Survivor Arc Goku • Post-Clayface Absorption Wonder Woman • Standard Battle Assumptions • Speed is unequalized • In a very large indestructible Greece

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Theme:

 

[Huesito88]

Bro did you not see the profiles????

 

[MichaelCalistro]

Bro did you not see the profiles????

Yeah I did, is something wrong with the match? I think I must have missed out on something, God forgive me if I did.

 

[Da3ggman]

Wonder Woman obliterates lol

 

[MichaelCalistro]

Wonder Woman obliterates lol

In terms of having greater stats? Sure, but Goku seems more haxed between the two, so I think he can hang on.

 

[Da3ggman]

In terms of having greater stats? Sure, but Goku seems more haxed between the two, so I think he can hang on.

Dawg she’s like stupidly stronger and skill checks the **** out of Kakarot; his mediocre hax aren’t doing anything.

 

[MichaelCalistro]

Dawg she’s like stupidly stronger and skill checks the **** out of Kakarot; his mediocre hax aren’t doing anything.

So no resistance feats to getting erased by Hakaid, getting paralyzed by God Bind or pressure point attack, or being sealed away by Mafuba? I don't see any good resistance feats in Wonder Woman's powers and abilities section outside of simply being a fighter and being stronger than Goku.

 

[GeneralSol16]

Yeah, Diana has the AP, Experience and Martial Skill to literally one shot him.

Wondie clears.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Yeah I'm going to have to give it to Diana on this fight, chief. That AP gap, experience, and skill is going to make Goku's hax meaningless when one hit is all it's going to take.

 

[MichaelCalistro]

Yeah I'm going to have to give it to Diana on this fight, chief. That AP gap, experience, and skill is going to make Goku's hax meaningless when one hit is all it's going to take.

How is Goku's hax meaningless here? Please define. Wonder Woman hardly has any resistance feats in her profile outside of greater stats and being a great fighter, and Hakai alone ignores durability.

 

[Samael_010]

How is Goku's hax meaningless here? Please define. Wonder Woman hardly has any resistance feats in her profile outside of greater stats and being a great fighter, and Hakai alone ignores durability.

Isnt he start by getting to h2h in character

 

[MichaelCalistro]

Isnt he start by getting to h2h in character

I mean he would, but wouldn't Wonder Woman have a very hard time landing a deadly blow on Goku due to Ultra Instinct allowing Goku to keep up with faster and stronger opponents than he is?

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

I came in here thinking the gap cant be that bad right. 52 Universes LMFAO

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

How is Goku's hax meaningless here? Please define. Wonder Woman hardly has any resistance feats in her profile outside of greater stats and being a great fighter, and Hakai alone ignores durability.

Well I'll run down a list:

Hakai is probably only Goku's only win con, but not only is it a technique that heavily drains Goku but it's also something he's never used outside of one fight (he didn't use it against Moro, why would he use it against like Wonder Woman?). God Bind likely won't do much since Wonder Woman's Stellar in LS while Goku is Class M, so she can most likely just overpower it with sheer strength alone. And for pressure points? Not only does she have pressure points, but she's so much more durable than Goku that I don't think Goku is going to be able to use pressure points against her.

Also as a side note: Goku needs a container and seal in order to use the Mafuba technique, so he won't be sealing Diana unless it was given to him.

 

[MichaelCalistro]

I came in here thinking the gap cant be that bad right. 52 Universes LMFAO

People thought Mori with 3-B stats can overcome Goku's 2-C stats with pressure points alone despite Goku having resistance to pressure points in one of my threads, so this thread isn't that bad when Goku ridiculously out haxes Wonder Woman here.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Well I'll run down a list:

Hakai is probably only Goku's only win con, but not only is it a technique that heavily drains Goku but it's also something he's never used outside of one fight (he didn't use it against Moro, why would he use it against like Wonder Woman?). God Bind likely won't do much since Wonder Woman's Stellar in LS while Goku is Class M, so she can most likely just overpower it with sheer strength alone. And for pressure points? Not only does she have pressure points, but she's so much more durable than Goku that I don't think Goku is going to be able to use pressure points against her.

Also as a side note: Goku needs a container and seal in order to use the Mafuba technique, so he won't be sealing Diana unless it was given to him.

If this is relevant. This is listed on his weaknesses

Lacks mastery over Hakai, needs time to charge up and executing the technique, and the effect is slow, which allowed Zamasu to recover from panicking and react. However, this partially goes away in the Moro arc, where he can deconstruct a border instantly in Perfect Ultra Instinct.

 

[Samael_010]

I mean he would, but wouldn't Wonder Woman have a very hard time landing a deadly blow on Goku due to Ultra Instinct allowing Goku to keep up with faster and stronger opponents than he is?

WW is like quintillion time faster if i read the DB speed blog right, can he actually (man i dont even know)

 

[MichaelCalistro]

WW is like 52 quintillion time faster, if i read the DB speed blog right, can he actually

Base goku without ui was able to keep up with hit who had ssb level stats. Base goku is able to follow and perceive two people having an IT fight and goku was able to react to a teleblitz. Goku also has resistance to hakai, can automatically make his body as sturdier as necessary, can make barriers that tanks attacks from people stronger than him. Goku has IT. Precognition and can sense malice. And goku in botg in his ssg form canceled out beerus shockwaves that threatened to destroy U7 and its macrocosm and turn that a vacuum made of nothingness. Base goku was also schooling ssj 2 caulifa for some time too while he was recovering. And scaling off of master roshi's showings against jiren with something inferior to ui goku would be fine with the speed gap.

 

[Johner2133451]

WW fra

 

[Samael_010]

ui goku would be fine with the speed gap.

52,594,876,486,185,656,320c
282,229,111,000,000,000c
Man what literaly fraction of her speed remove the 52 and she still massively faster

 

[Ebihara]

I guess its not techinally a stop since goku "has a win condtion" but isnt he getting statuted here? ww is wayyyy to fast... he is getting blizted and one shot (52 universe diff as pointed out by another user)

 

[MichaelCalistro]

52,594,876,486,185,656,320c
282,229,111,000,000,000c
Man what literaly fraction of her speed remove the 52 and she still massively faster

I do apologize for the long sentence, here let me explain in layman's term for you. Goku during the Granolah the Survivor Arc was able to use his Ultra Instinct's speed while in his base form without having to transform, not because he suddenly became faster in terms of combat/travel speed, but because it increased his reaction/perception speed to that level. Therefore Goku in his Ultra Instinct form would have the same reaction/perception speed increase. How much increase? You see the 282,229,111,000,000,000c value? Multiply it by itself, and that's how much reaction/perception speed increase you would get in his Ultra Instinct form.

 

[DavidTPPM]

People thought Mori with 3-B stats can overcome Goku's 2-C stats with pressure points

And the thread got concluded as a stomp in Gokus favor where majority agreed he can't so why are you bringing it up here?
Although that was also only because Goku fans ignored a 250,000x speed difference in Moris favor and like 3 other hax that one shot regardless of stats but whatever

 

[Samael_010]

I do apologize for the long sentence, here let me explain in layman's term for you. Goku during the Granolah the Survivor Arc was able to use his Ultra Instinct's speed while in his base form without having to transform, not because he suddenly became faster in terms of combat/travel speed, but because it increased his reaction/perception speed to that level. Therefore Goku in his Ultra Instinct form would have the same reaction/perception speed increase. How much increase? You see the 282,229,111,000,000,000c value? Multiply it by itself, and that's how much reaction/perception speed increase you would get in his Ultra Instinct form.

dawg If this is even true, what can he do? slowly watching WW obliterate him?

 

[MichaelCalistro]

And the thread got concluded as a stomp in Gokus favor where majority agreed he can't so why are you bringing it up here?
Although that was also only because Goku fans ignored a 250,000x speed difference in Moris favor and like 3 other hax that one shot regardless of stats but whatever

I mean unlike the case with Goku vs Mori, Wonder Woman over here has zero pressure point resistance feat with both of them being 4D here, so I think Goku's pressure points in this case would hurt Wonder Woman really badly.

 

[Johner2133451]

I mean unlike the case with Goku vs Mori, Wonder Woman over here has zero pressure point resistance feat with both of them being 4D here, so I think Goku's pressure points in this case would hurt Wonder Woman really badly.

Pressure point attacks can only work with 60x AP gap. But since WW is at least one universe above, that wont work as the AP gap would be beyond infiniteX

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

One of those threads huh?

Although it's nice seeing Goku actually have the P&A advantage, he literally gets one tapped by WW and you have to make major assumptions about the speed multipliers for Goku to avoid getting blitzed.

Also that massive LS difference means once Goku and WW go H2H (which is an IC strat for both of them) he's not breaking free from one of WWs grapples.

Pretty sure this is a mismatch, best case scenario is assuming Goku can close the massive speed gap with transformations, avoids getting repeatedly one-shot with UI long enough to realize all his conventional attacks/techniques are useless and then restorts his more esoteric skills (e.g: Hakai) meanwhile Diana just needs to breath on Goku and it's GG.

 

[MichaelCalistro]

dawg If this is even true, what can he do? slowly watching WW obliterate him?

It would more be something like this instead.

 

[DavidTPPM]

I mean unlike the case with Goku vs Mori, Wonder Woman over here has zero pressure point resistance feat with both of them being 4D here, so I think Goku's pressure points in this case would hurt Wonder Woman really badly.

It doesn't matter whether they're both 4D or not. If you remember the thread you're referencing you should remember the issue was that for pressure points to work the 2 characters still need to be somewhat comparable in stats.

The difference between Goku and WW here is more than infinite so they're not even remotely close

 

[DavidTPPM]

It would more be something like this instead.

I can't believe Mori's feat are being used to glaze Goku

As if every single person in those scans didn't skillstomp Goku in their sleep

 

[Huesito88]

I can't believe Mori's feat are being used to glaze Goku

As if every single person in those scans didn't skillstomp Goku in their sleep

They're Sun Wukong of course we would

 

[MichaelCalistro]

It doesn't matter whether they're both 4D or not. If you remember the thread you're referencing you should remember the issue was that for pressure points to work the 2 characters still need to be somewhat comparable in stats.

The difference between Goku and WW here is more than infinite so they're not even remotely close

Apparently pressure points works differently in DC, much weaker characters can hurt much stronger characters with pressure points alone.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Apparently pressure points works differently in DC, much weaker characters can hurt much stronger characters with pressure points alone.

The problem with this example is that Solomon Grundy, in universe, has a variable power level whenever he resurrects. There are times where he's stronger than Batman, and then there's times where he's suddenly able to take on Superman and the entire Justice League. So no, Batman wasn't using pressure points to fight someone who was 52 universes 2-C in this fight.

Also Wonder Woman can use pressure points as well, and has thousands of years of experience, so I don't know why she can't take advantage of pressure points when she's massively faster and stronger.

 

[MichaelCalistro]

The problem with this example is that Solomon Grundy, in universe, has a variable power level whenever he resurrects. There are times where he's stronger than Batman, and then there's times where he's suddenly able to take on Superman and the entire Justice League. So no, Batman wasn't using pressure points to fight someone who was 52 universes 2-C in this fight.

Also Wonder Woman can use pressure points as well, and has thousands of years of experience, so I don't know why she can't take advantage of pressure points when she's massively faster and stronger.

Solomon Grundy was still too strong for Batman to hurt him normally even if we used the same 8-C key for both of them, hence why he even resorted to using pressure points in the first place. Thousands of years of experience is not a big deal for a Saiyan like Goku when he fought and overcome skilled opponents just as old as Wonder Woman like Hit for example, she is stronger than Goku and also knows pressure points, that's true but the speed is the problem where we run into. Wonder Woman is only faster than Goku in terms of combat/reaction speed, but Goku can still perceptional speed bliz her due to Ultra Instinct's instinctive action where the body would automatically respond to danger even if the user isn't fully aware about it because that's what Ultra Instinct does, it's like having an additional 282,229,111,000,000,000c multiplier on top of 282,229,111,000,000,000c value.

 

[StekFence]

So true, pressure points are just more then infinite amps lol

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Solomon Grundy was still too strong for Batman to hurt him normally even if we used the same 8-C key for both of them, hence why he even resorted to using pressure points in the first place.

Except it doesn't work in this case because even though Wonder Woman and Goku are 2-C, the former is like multiple times infinitely stronger than the latter since she scales to 52 universes while Goku scales to 2 to 3 universes in the manga. And Wonder Woman's also got experience with pressure points so I would also argue that she has the ability to effectively counter Goku trying to pressure point her.

Thousands of years of experience is not a big deal for a Saiyan like Goku when he fought opponents just as old as Wonder Woman

And how many of those opponents have had the same infinite gap in strength between them and Goku? Plus, given that Wonder Woman's experience includes fighting opponents as strong or even stronger than her, she's not going to struggle against someone who's weaker than her.

Wonder Woman is only faster than Goku in terms of combat/reaction speed, but Goku can still perceptional speed bliz her due to Ultra Instinct's instinctive action where the body would automatically react to danger even if the user isn't fully aware about it because that's what Ultra Instinct does.

But here's the problem with that: Wonder Woman's combat/reaction speed is greater by such an extent that Goku would literally look like a statue in Diana's eyes, meaning that she could pretty much speed blitz and one shot him before Goku even thinks of activating Ultra Instinct. Also I'm pretty sure that UI's instinctive reaction is ineffective against faster opponents so UI isn't going to help Goku much.

I just don't see what Goku can do here to win when he's fighting someone who's infinitely stronger than him and is so fast that he's basically a statue in their eyes. This just feels like a mismatch.

 

[MichaelCalistro]

Except it doesn't work in this case because even though Wonder Woman and Goku are 2-C, the former is like multiple times infinitely stronger than the latter since she scales to 52 universes while Goku scales to 2 to 3 universes in the manga. And Wonder Woman's also got experience with pressure points so I would also argue that she has the ability to effectively counter Goku trying to pressure point her.

And how many of those opponents have had the same infinite gap in strength between them and Goku? Plus, given that Wonder Woman's experience includes fighting opponents as strong or even stronger than her, she's not going to struggle against someone who's weaker than her.

But here's the problem with that: Wonder Woman's combat/reaction speed is greater by such an extent that Goku would literally look like a statue in Diana's eyes, meaning that she could pretty much speed blitz and one shot him before Goku even thinks of activating Ultra Instinct. Also I'm pretty sure that UI's instinctive reaction is ineffective against faster opponents so UI isn't going to help Goku much.

I just don't see what Goku can do here to win when he's fighting someone who's infinitely stronger than him and is so fast that he's basically a statue in their eyes. This just feels like a mismatch.

Can Wonder Woman overcome 282,229,111,000,000,000c x 282,229,111,000,000,000c = whatever value speed gap difference? You seems to not understand how the Ultra Instinct's perception/reaction speed increase seems to work.

 

[Samael_010]

Can Wonder Woman overcome 282,229,111,000,000,000c x 282,229,111,000,000,000c = whatever value speed gap difference?

is this accepted anywhere

 

[Da3ggman]

Can Wonder Woman overcome 282,229,111,000,000,000c x 282,229,111,000,000,000c = whatever value speed gap difference? You seems to not understand how the Ultra Instinct's perception/reaction speed increase seems to work.

This is pure headcanon, get it accepted then we can talk.

Anyway even if they were even in stats, WW just skillstomps him to oblivion via scaling to Gods like Ares, who knows literally every martial art, battle strategy, and tactic in existence since the beginning of time.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Can Wonder Woman overcome 282,229,111,000,000,000c x 282,229,111,000,000,000c = whatever value speed gap difference?

I have to ask, where did you get this value from? Because that 282,229,110,000,000,000c speed value is when Goku's in Mastered Ultra Instinct, not when using it in his base form. As said above, that's just pure headcanon.

And even if that was true, which it isn't, Wonder Woman overcomes that because she's so much faster than Goku is in bade form (since you didn't start him in UI) that she could blitz him before he can even think to activate UI.