Alright so ill cover for Elaj considering he has important stuff to do (so do I but I have more free time), so ill try my best to cover everything in this CRT.
Debunking the MHS+ Scaling
The idea that Makima activated her ability by reacting to the Gun Devil’s bullets that where about to hit her is dubious.
(
Scene)
Makima doesnt even react to the bullets as they’re shot towards her. By the time Makima reacts, the bullets have already reached her, they just missed.
And to this you have to add that Makima is a MASSIVE distance away from Gun (
477 km) which gives her a ton of time to activate her ability, in this case it takes the bullets 1s to reach her.
This shows that Makima in no way scales in reaction speed and there simply isnt any evidence in this scene to support the assumption that Makima waited until a bullet was about to hit her to activate her ability.
In conclusion, the only one that scales to this feat is the Gun Devil in Attack Speed and the characters who scale to it should be
MHS.
This particular line of speed scaling namely, the idea that Makima reacted to the Gun Devil’s bullets was already under review and
set to be revised in the upcoming CRT Elaj and I are working on. The argument is rooted in two scenes: Makima vs the Darkness Devil and Makima vs 20% Gun Devil. However, the former has already been deemed an outlier due to the scaling inconsistencies introduced by more recent material, such as the Gun Goddess feat, and the ambiguity surrounding Makima’s control over the Future Devil at that point in the story. There’s room to argue for analytical prediction during the Darkness fight, as she was shown anticipating the Devil’s attacks but even then, that’s more a reflection of pre-planning than raw speed. It's also important to note that
she had multiple sources of vision via the corpses in Hell, which would have allowed her to plan her counterattack rather than relying solely on split-second reactions.
As for the 20% Gun Devil scene,
that moment should never have been taken as a legitimate reaction feat to begin with. Makima sees Gun before it fires, giving her ample time to initiate her contract ability. Saying she "reacted" to the bullets implies an immediate reaction, which is inconsistent with the context. The bullets taking approximately one second to travel the 477 km distance makes the timing feel more like a strategic trigger rather than a high-speed reaction. To put it in perspective, this is comparable to someone being warned about an incoming laser beam from Earth while they’re standing on the Moon, they’d have a full second to move or prepare. That’s not evidence of lightspeed reactions, it’s a matter of prep time due to distance.
So yes,
the speed feat falls apart under scrutiny and shouldn’t be used for reaction scaling. However, this doesn’t mean all high-speed scaling in the verse is invalid. Characters like the Primal Devils, or those who directly contend with them, can still reasonably scale above the Gun Devil’s attack speed
, not because of this scene, but due to their stated transcendence to the Gun Devil in general, which I will get to more in depth below. The Makima feat was always shaky and is being addressed in the broader revision.
I want to address this because it's a misunderstanding of how fear scaling operates in Chainsaw Man. When we say a more feared Devil is stronger, we’re referring to
the overall empowerment granted to them by the collective fear of humanity. This doesn’t always manifest evenly across every aspect of their kit, special abilities, physical strength, durability, and so on, but when a Devil is
transcendently more feared, that difference can be all-encompassing. Take the Typhoon Devil, for example: it could create massive storms as part of its concept, yet Denji was clearly physically superior. That’s because Typhoon’s destructive ability was based on its domain (natural disasters), not raw stats. But Denji’s empowerment, though lower in scale conceptually, translated into stronger physical performance in that fight. So special abilities being disproportionate doesn’t mean fear scaling doesn’t affect physical stats, it just means those stats may not reflect the full destructive output of a Devil’s ability.
That said, we’re not talking about mid-tier Devils like Typhoon here, we’re talking about
Primal Devils. These are entities are
"transcendent" beings compared to normal devils that is far more terrifying than "
some Gun Devil" and have never experienced death before due to their immense power. Their sheer fear-based empowerment is so massive that it inconceivably scales them above Devils like Gun, not just in conceptual power, but also in raw physical stats, reaction speed, and even destructive capability. The Darkness Devil for instance, is stated and shown to be on a level far above conventional Devils, and this includes scaling over the Gun Devil, especially when considering the portrayal of its presence in Hell.
On top of that, the claim that the Gun Devil’s bullets are some "special ability" disconnected from his physical stats doesn’t hold up under scrutiny. The bullets are literally just massive, enhanced firearms growing out of his body. They’re an extension of his physical form, not an abstract hax power. This isn’t some situation like the the Typhoon Devil, it’s raw firepower coming from physical weapons. So yes, scaling above the Gun Devil does imply the ability to deal with or move faster than these bullets, unless explicitly stated otherwise. And we have direct support for this in the manga: the Aging Devil stopped a much faster and more powerful bullet from the Gun Goddess, a weapon far more potent than anything fired by 20% Gun, without any prior awareness, making the bullet out to be
a trivial disturbance to their thoughts.
Let’s be clear: A weapon’s strength created by Yoru or Asa is
directly based on how guilty they feel about turning someone into a weapon. Asa, due to her deeper emotional ties and guilt,
has created stronger weapons than Yoru. However, in this case, Yoru forged a weapon out of
28% of her child,
the Gun Devil, which formed a gauntlet on her right arm. This gauntlet was described as
more fearsome than any of Asa’s weapons, which is already a major benchmark in terms of potency. The weapon was additionally empowered through a mass-scale contract involving the
sacrifice of the index fingers of 40,000 members of the National Pistol Association of America. This ritual awakened a devil within the Statue of Liberty, which proceeded to fire intercontinental bullets from New York to Tokyo. The results?
The bullets completely incinerated a fear-amped Part 2 Pochita, caused unprecedented destruction in Tokyo, killed at least
900 people, and left over 3,800 missing, in
ONE shot. This was arguably the single most destructive ranged attack in the verse.
Now here’s where the feat matters.
The Aging Devil stopped this bullet and he wasn’t even aware it was coming until the very moment it was already en route. He didn’t prepare or anticipate it, he perceived and intercepted it in real-time. So the idea that something orders of magnitude weaker, like a bullet from
20% of the Gun Devil, is too fast to scale above just doesn't hold up. Not only is it slower and less destructive, but it lacks the multi-layered empowerment that the Gun Goddess bullet had.
If a character can react to and stop the most fearsome, empowered bullet ever shown in the series without prep, then trying to argue that they
can’t scale over a basic Gun Devil bullet (especially a 20% one) is simply not consistent with the evidence we’ve been given.
Debunking the Sub-Rel Scaling
Aging stopping the Gun Goddess’ bullet is not even a speed feat. He doesn’t even move at all, if no distance is moved then speed is 0.
He stops the bullet by using time manipulation, so this feat just gives him Sub-Rel reaction due to reacting and activating that ability.
Aging stating that the bullet couldn’t kill him can be attributed to him being able to react and use time manipulation to stop it, it doesn’t necessarily mean he is faster than the bullet.
In conclusion, characters with sub-rel speed should have sub-rel reaction speed and
MHS speed.
It
is a speed feat because reaction speed inherently includes the ability to perceive and respond to a stimulus, regardless of whether the user physically moves afterward. Aging was not prepped or warned. The Gun Goddess bullet was already en route, and only when it entered his perception did he react and activate his time manipulation. That is
by definition a Sub-Rel reaction feat, because it shows he was able to process and respond to a projectile that crossed
intercontinental distance in mere moments. He is so superior to the bullet that by default he is completely faster than it and that's a given via the scene.
Debunking the Mountain level Scaling
This is already written as a ”possibly”, but I don't think it even deserves that much.
We first need to take into account that the bullet that reaches Pochita and Aging isn’t even Mountain level. It has lost a lot of energy due to traveling through the world, to the point that, when it hits,
it only destroys a radius of 20 m. Which is clearly not Mountain level.
That was not the only scene of destruction shown? Including that the only destruction shown was in Tokyo, and much, much more would've been done in it's path considering it traveled across the entire planet? This doesn't invalidate anything. In fact,
here's a better calc.
Additionally, Pochita (
Who scales to Aging)
getting one tapped by the bullet is way bigger of a contradiction to the Mountain level scaling when you consider how the bullet lost energy, even if
Pochita was weakened.
In conclusion, only Yoru’s AP with the Gun Goddess scales to this.
Rusty already addressed the "losing energy part" and, this just means Pochita absorbed the majority of the energy from the bullet which led to the reduced environmental damage,
as shown here when the destruction of the bullet is completely capped when it impacts Pochita's body. This was an already an
extremely damaged Pochita, so if anything this just solidifies the scaling.
Anyways, don't let Elaj find this CRT, he wont be happy.
