OPM additions + scaling revision

[Farfetchedx]

Silver Fang
Attack Reflection & Limited Damage Boost (Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist allows the user to deflect incoming attacks or redirect them with double the force)
Energy Manipulation (Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist takes knowledge of the flow of energy behind raging currents and tidal surges and recreates these within one's body, putting this into their fists)
Superhuman Precision (Can pierce the smallest vital points with unmatched accuracy)
Aura & Fear Manipulation (Has an aura that can make even Tatsumaki flinch)
Extrasensory Perception (Sensed a foreign evil inside Awakened Garou. Knew that Bomb's fist had no killing intent. Superior to Smile Man, who is able to sense he presence of others)
Accelerated Development (Claimed that he gets stronger while fighting)
Afterimage Creation (Created afterimages while fighting Garou)
Social Influencing (Reputation; Is respected by his pairs, and acknowledged as one of greatest Martial Artists in the world)
Supernatural willpower (Through sheer willpower, he survived exposure to Garou's radiation longer than anyone not fully resistant to it, despite being the closest) He should also get OPM's supernatural willpower since he lasted longer than even those with it.
Non-Physical Interaction (Can interact with energy-based attacks. Superior in skill to heroes who could deflect Homeless Emperor’s energy spheres)


Saitama
Regeneration over an unknown period of time (Low; Regenerated from the scratches of Octopus Claw Man, which left King with permanent scars)
Social Influencing (Influenced Genos into becoming his disciple. Motivated insecure individuals like Fubuki and Glasses to face their challenges and become better heroes. Convinced Tatsumaki to allow the the Blizzard Group to continue operating. Though initially unwilling, Tatsumaki went through with a hero recruitment commercial after recalling his words.
Immense Pain Tolerance (Endured extreme pain from his intense training regimen, to the point that it nearly killed him. Unfazed by the injuries he suffered from Octopus Claw Man. Withstood strikes from monsters like Crablante and Personification Of A Light Pull Cord)
Limited Attack Reflection with his head (Saitama’s head reflects light-based attacks, thanks to its baldness) There should be a note that says: His baldness makes his head so slippery that it resists sticky and gooey substances, as seen here.
Fear Manipulation (When angered, Saitama exudes an overwhelming pressure that instills fear in others)
resistance to:
Pressure Points (Can withstand Garou's Fist Of Flowing Water Crushed Rock which incapacitates by hitting pressure points, even when Garou matched him in strength)

Genos
Limited Durability Negation (By melting his opponent’s insides)
Immortality (Type 2; Can keep fighting even with his body cut in half or limbs torn off)
Aura (His Lightning Drill Cannon engulfs him in a dragon-shaped electric aura)
Shockwave Creation (Blew away a swarm of mosquitos that surrounded him. His punches can produce shockwaves)
Limited Data Manipulation & Memory Manipulation (His core is capable of recording events, and the stored memories can be extracted for later use or review)
Martial Arts Master (Able to contend with a martial arts genius like Garou in hand to hand combat)
Statistics Amplification (With Boosters) Further with 10s mode
Afterimage Creation (Created afterimages with Machine Gun Blow)
Danmaku (Genos has access to more than two dozen individual guns across his body, which he can combine for larger, more powerful Incineration Cannon blasts, or to fire multiple energy beams from his arms at once)
Homing Attack (His beams are capable of homing onto their target)

All 3 should have resistance to Fear Manipulation, since they were unaffected by Garou's aura, which made everyone else besides Blast scared.

Tatsumaki
Social Influencing (Reputation and Instilling Fear; As the Class Rank 2 hero, she is respected by the public and has many fans around the world. Monsters fear her due to her overwhelming power and brutality on the battlefield)
Underground Mobility (Can travel underground)
Camouflage (Invaded Psykos' body unnoticed by camouflaging herself as energy that Psykos was absorbing through her roots)
Immense Pain Tolerance (Shrugged off severe exhaustion, blood loss and injuries to continue fighting. Despite having been knocked unconscious, she woke up moments later and immediately began fighting waves of Black Sperms while still in a critical condition)
Limited Light Manipulation (Illuminated a giant spear with her green aura) I've seen profiles give light manipulation for having light based aura, so this should be fine
Weather Manipulation (Can create thunderstorms)
Limited Power Nullification with barriers (Durability Negation; Despite having both her own psychic output turned against her and Psykos's output added on top of it, she wasn't instantly crushed thanks to her barrier. Her barriers usually negate psychokinesis from weaker espers, which can bypass conventional durability)

Upscaling Tatsumaki
Tatsumaki should get upscaled from mach 7278(Massively Hypersonic+) to mach 8740.3(Sub-Relativistic), which is a 1.2x increase. She effortlessly dodged all of Psykorochi's attacks while holding back significantly—so much so that she believed she could possibly have killed Saitama(who was no selling all of her attacks) with just a touch increased output, even after using power on par with what she used to overpower Psykorochi. During the fight, she kept increasing her output until she reached full power, to which she started pushing past her limits and moved him a little. Her Psychic output affects her speed. So, Full powered Tatsumaki>>>Touch increased Tatsumaki>>>The Tatsumaki who effortlessly dodged Psykorochi's beams>Psykorochi's beams(mach 7278).

In this thread, we were going to upscale her to moon level due to her layers of holding back. The only reason we didn't, was because the upscale would've been a 1.6x increase, which exceeded the wiki's 1.5x limit for upscaling(and even then, we were still considering it due to how far above Psykos Tatsumaki is). So considering that psychic output affects speed, a 1.2x upscale should be fine.

10s mode Genos(with boosters) should probably be upscaled as well, since he was able to intercept a more powerful beam just right before it reached Tatsumaki, and fired a beam of his own.

Tatsumaki Scaling Revision
Tatsumaki's AP justification is outdated, as it doesn't include anything after The MA arc. Her new scaling should be something like this:

At least Multi-Continent level+ (Even while wounded and not going all-out, she clashed with Psykorochi and severely damaged her. Once she was able to focus on the fight, she dissipated one of Psykos' beams and effortlessly overpowered her, twisting all of Z-City in the process and obliterating her on the cellular level. She believed she could have killed Saitama by increasing her psychic output by just a touch, even after using power on par with what she used to overpower Psykorochi. Having already reached her limits against Saitama, she forced her power even higher, convinced she could launch him into outer space)

Remove During-Training Saitama's Scaling from Tatsumaki
His scaling is as follows:

possibly at least Multi-Continent level+ (Tatsumaki's telekinesis was completely ineffective against him, with she and Fubuki stating that Saitama surpassed her powers, and Fubuki comparing him to an Above Dragon-level threat)

This scaling should be removed, as it assumes that Tatsumaki's strength has remained static over the years, ignoring any potential growth or development she may have undergone. Considering that she was unable to affect him with her telekinesis back then, but was able to slightly lift him off the ground during the Psychic Sisters arc, suggests that she's gotten stronger.

Agree: @FinePoint (Agrees with everything, Thinks Saitama's Fear manipulation should only be possibly), @DarkDragonMedeus (Unsure about Durability Negation, Shares the same opinion as FinePoint on everything else), @Damage3245 (Agrees with everything except Energy Manipulation, Durability Negation, and the upscaling) @ActuallySpaceMan42 (Agrees with everything except Energy Manipulation and Durability Negation, Neutral on the scaling)
Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Remove During-Training Saitama's Scaling from Tatsumaki
His scaling is as follows:

This scaling should be removed, as it assumes that Tatsumaki's strength has remained static over the years, ignoring any potential growth or development she may have undergone. Considering that she was unable to affect him with her telekinesis back then, but was able to slightly lift him off the ground during the Psychic Sisters arc, suggests that she's gotten stronger.

I'd also like to mention here that, in the audiobook, Tatsumaki was unable to affect Saitama on the very least. The only damage she did to Saitama was pulling his clothes. His hair getting stuck on there and as consequence the clothes pulling of the hair.

Meanwhile, in the fight against current Saitama she was capable of twisting his muscles while holding back, clearly implying an increase in potency

 

[Kachon123]

Tatsumaki Scaling Revision
Tatsumaki's AP justification is outdated, as it doesn't include anything after The MA arc. Her new scaling should be something like this:

At least Multi-Continent level+ (Even while wounded and not going all-out, she clashed with Psykorochi and severely damaged her. Once she was able to focus on the fight, she dissipated one of Psykos' beams and effortlessly overpowered her, twisting all of Z-City in the process and obliterating her on the cellular level. Caused significant damage to Boros' spaceship on two separate occasions, which was reiterated by the databook) At least Multi-Continent level+, far higher (She believed she could have killed Saitama by increasing her psychic output by just a touch, even after using power on par with what she used to overpower Psykorochi), Even higher (Having already reached her limits against Saitama, she forced her power even higher, convinced she could launch him into outer space)

This is not how "higher" ratings are applied on profiles.

Attack Potency

Destructive Capacity is the term used to determine the amount of damage a character can produce. It is normally the deciding factor of VS matches along with Speed. It is measured in units of energy. An alternative term for Destructive Capacity which has more direct meaning: The Destructive...

vsbattles.fandom.com

This should be used to denote a character's weapons, techniques, or attributes that are much stronger than their base level, but still within the same tier. For example, a character that is Solar System level but has an attack that multiplies their power by 100 times. In this instance it should be written as “Solar System level, higher with that ability or technique”.

Furthermore, higher may also be used to denote a case where the character is possibly or likely a higher tier, but to what degree is not specified. This is specifically referring to cases such as “At least 4-B, likely higher” or “At least Solar System level, likely higher”.

Tatsumaki doesn't have a specific technique, ability, or power up that gives her access to stats higher than what in your draft would be considered her 'base,' so giving two separate ratings for just increasing her normal power output doesn't make the most sense. Especially since Tatsumaki's 'base' rating is the same as her current justification, which includes moments of Tatsumaki similarly increasing her power output as noted by Fubuki, Bang, and Bomb:

At least Multi-Continent level+ (Even while wounded and not going all-out, she clashed with Psykorochi and severely damaged her. Once she was able to focus on the fight, she dissipated one of Psykos' beams and effortlessly overpowered her, twisting all of Z-City in the process and obliterating her on the cellular level. Caused significant damage to Boros' spaceship on two separate occasions, which was reiterated by the databook)

So unless you're planning on revisiting upscaling Tatsumaki's Attack Potency to baseline Moon level but instead giving it a possibly rating like this:

At least Multi-Continent level+ (Even while wounded and not going all-out, she clashed with Psykorochi and severely damaged her. Once she was able to focus on the fight, she dissipated one of Psykos' beams and effortlessly overpowered her, twisting all of Z-City in the process and obliterating her on the cellular level. Caused significant damage to Boros' spaceship on two separate occasions, which was reiterated by the databook), far higher, possibly Moon level at Full Power (She believed she could have killed Saitama by increasing her psychic output by just a touch, even after using power on par with what she used to overpower Psykorochi. Having already reached her limits against Saitama, she forced her power even higher, convinced she could launch him into outer space

, I'd advise removing the additional higher ratings and transferring the new AP justifications to within the same bracket.

Everything else seems okay.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Silver Fang
Power Nullification (Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist nullifies attacks,[1] and is capable of deflecting a redirection of the opponent's strikes. It can also redirect attacks with twice the force) We have multiple statements that the WSRSF nullifies attacks, and we've seen Bang use it to nullify Rover's heat bombs and Gaou's Roaring Aura Sky Ripping Fist.

I don’t think this really counts at power nullification. It's no more power nullification than simply dodging an attack, the power still does what it should just not in Bangs face. Rest is fine tho imo.

Energy Manipulation (Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist takes knowledge of the flow of energy behind raging currents and tidal surges and recreates these within one's body, putting this into your fists)

Uhh idk if this really fits. He's not really manipulating energy any more than every living being does simply by moving. It doesn't fit any of the possible uses either.

Saitama
Regeneration (Low; Regenerated from the scratches of Octopus Claw Man, which left King with permanent scars)

Should be noted this takes an unknown amount of time to kick in as he clearly wasn't healing mid fight there.

Limited Attack Reflection with his head (Saitama’s head reflects light-based attacks, thanks to its baldness) There should be a note that says: His baldness makes his head so slippery that it resists sticky and gooey substances, as seen here.

Baldness Manipulation when?

Superhuman Precision (Killed an alien by casually chucking a pebble through its head) additional justification

That's really not superhuman precision, average humans can already hit a giant monster in the head with a rock. I could see an average dart player in bar outperform this, there's no need to mention that in the profile when he already has better justification.

Fear Manipulation (Completely scared Carnage Kabuto. Frightened Garou with his aura)

In Kabutos case that seems more like Kabuto himself just has some extraordinary perception that allowed him to sense Saitamas power.
Garou example looks alright tho. You could technically argue the same for him, especially given Saitama was visibly mad, but I think Garous comment makes it clear that he did feel some sort of pressure.

Genos
Limited Durability Negation (By melting his opponent’s insides)

Is that really duraneg tho? I mean he literally shot fire into his body through his neck, me sticking a finger through your mouth isn't durability negation either.

I'd say it's alright as limited dura neg same way all heat abilities are but it's not really special in any way.

Data Manipulation & Memory Manipulation (His core is capable of recording events, and the stored memories can be extracted for later use or review)

Idk if remembering stuff counts as memory manip or data manip lol.

resistance to Psychokinesis (Had her own psychic output turned against her, yet wasn't instantly crushed)

She didn't resist it tho. Just withstood it. Resistance would mean the ability doesn't actually affect her which is clearly not the case here.

Remove During-Training Saitama's Scaling from Tatsumaki
His scaling is as follows:

This scaling should be removed, as it assumes that Tatsumaki's strength has remained static over the years, ignoring any potential growth or development she may have undergone. Considering that she was unable to affect him with her telekinesis back then, but was able to slightly lift him off the ground during the Psychic Sisters arc, suggests that she's gotten stronger.

She was affecting Saitama tho.

Tatsumaki: Wait, what? WHAT? How come it’s still moving towards me? Why doesn’t my psychic power affect it?

Saitama: What’s this feeling? It’s as if my clothes are pulling itself tightly around me. Ow! My hair got stuck in it. Ouch! If it keeps on pulling like this my hair roots will—! Just wait a sec. Guess I need to just stand horizontally like this?

The difference is that past Saitama was actually walking towards her while current Saitama was just standing still. So just because her current self can slightly lift Saitama doesn't mean she could stop past Saitama from walking towards her.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Saitama only describes that Tatsumaki was affecting his clothes, though. The hair damage was consequence of it getting stuck on said clothes, there is no physical damage done specifically by the psychic power on his body

Meanwhile, current Tatsumaki could twitch his muscles while holding back. If we assume Tatsumaki got no stronger on that long period, then she should have caused way more than a single twist of clothes to that past Saitama with her full power

 

[DragoZeroNova]

Saitama only describes that Tatsumaki was affecting his clothes, though. The hair damage was consequence of it getting stuck on said clothes, there is no physical damage done specifically by the psychic power on his body

Meanwhile, current Tatsumaki could twitch his muscles while holding back. If we assume Tatsumaki got no stronger on that long period, then she should have caused way more than a single twist of clothes to that past Saitama with her full power

I don't disagree with Tatsumaki being stronger, but using the quote provided, it's not quite that simple. Assuming the raws are the same, what Saitama says is that it feels like his clothes are wrapping around him
Note: FEELS like.
His clothes aren't actually being wrapped around him, or he would've said it straight up. Instead, he's somewhat perplexed by the sensation of his clothes wrapping around him, which, again, makes no sense if they're actually wrapping around him. Thus, she is (presumably) affecting Saitama in some way.
Again, this doesn't mean I disagree that past Tatsumaki is weaker, I just don't think this is evidence is solid

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Wasn't the whole point that they were in pure darkness? Of course he couldn't affirm it, because he can't  see his clothes being wrapped around him.

Also, if the clothes wrapping around him was just a feeling, nothing literal, he wouldn't state his hair got stuck in it.

 

[MrTayman616]

Superhuman Precision (Can pierce the smallest vital points with unmatched accuracy[1])

I don't think this is true, perfect accuracy doesn't apply for impossibly good one.

Energy Manipulation (Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist takes knowledge of the flow of energy behind raging currents and tidal surges and recreates these within one's body, putting this into your fists)

Thls is fine, same method as Garou. Though maybe limited?

Aura & Fear Manipulation (Has an aura that can make even Tatsumaki flinch[1])

I don't think it's because of aura etc here. His presence can be other things like "his experience, his knowledge" etc.

Resistance to Radiation Manipulation (Through sheer willpower, he survived exposure to Garou's radiation longer than anyone not fully resistant to it, despite being the closest)

Maybe it's fine but i wouldn't say so. We don't know when the others died, if he had outlived them iirc. He shouldn't have it though in my opinion.

Saitama
Regeneration (Low; Regenerated from the scratches of Octopus Claw Man, which left King with permanent scars)

I have a thread about it as well, for the willpower and death though.

Superhuman Precision (Killed an alien by casually chucking a pebble through its head)

Just a good aim.

Immense Pain Tolerance (Endured extreme pain from his intense training regimen, to the point that it nearly killed him. Unfazed by the injuries he suffered from Octopus Claw Man. Withstood strikes from monsters like Crablante and Personification Of A Light Pull Cord)

Already has it in the willpower page.

Fear Manipulation (Completely scared Carnage Kabuto. Frightened Garou with his aura)

Carnage Kabuto was scared because he realized his strength which doesn't apply for fear manipulation. Though it wasn't the same for Garou, so it's fine.

Limited Durability Negation (By melting his opponent’s insides)

It's G4's desing here, no? Though it's heat based attack, it would be dur neg as any other heat attack. (not sure it gets dura neg before showing it though)

All 3 should have resistance to Fear Manipulation, since they were unaffected by Garou's aura, which made everyone else besides Blast scared.

Because of strength, Which doesn't apply for fear manipulation.

Immense Pain Tolerance (Shrugged off severe exhaustion, blood loss and injuries to continue fighting. Despite having been knocked unconscious, she woke up moments later and immediately began fighting waves of Black Sperms while still in a critical condition)

In willpower section.

Upscaling Tatsumaki

I agree with it.

10s mode Genos(with boosters) should probably be upscaled as well, since he was able to intercept a more powerful beam just right before it reached Tatsumaki, and fired a beam of his own.

It's a matter of perspective. Other panels show that it wasn't closer than Genos.

I agree with Kachon for the AP

Attack Reflection, Power Nullification and Limited Damage Boost (Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist nullifies attacks,[1] and is capable of deflecting a redirection of the opponent's strikes. It can also redirect attacks with twice the force)

I don't agree with Power Null. (Could work against Rover fr though)

Remove During-Training Saitama's Scaling from Tatsumaki

I agree. He should scale to Gouketsu and other Monster HQ cadres.

 

[Entity]

I think Genos said martial arts were useless when Bang proposed to become his master, so, unless I'm forgetting something, Genos shouldn't have that

 

[Farfetchedx]

I don’t think this really counts at power nullification. It's no more power nullification than simply dodging an attack, the power still does what it should just not in Bangs face. Rest is fine tho imo.

We've seen Bang use it to deflect Rovers heat bombs(which apparently would've killed him) and took no damage. He also used it to deflect the RASRF, which reduces all the bones in the body to dust upon contact. Garou who was affected by hot water, could deflect it with WSRF without harm. He takes piercing damage, but can deflect blades when using the WSRSF, without taking even a scratch. It clearly nullifies the effects of attacks when deflecting

Uhh idk if this really fits. He's not really manipulating energy any more than every living being does simply by moving. It doesn't fit any of the possible uses either.

No, the way the narration describes "the flow" and clearly states that it's the same flow that is used to recreate other techniques (like whirlwind iron cutting fist) that manipulate & project energy, suggest that it is more than just moving your body. Also

She didn't resist it tho. Just withstood it. Resistance would mean the ability doesn't actually affect her which is clearly not the case here.

She should've been flatten, but wasn't. That's resistance. You don't need to have immunity to get resistance

She was affecting Saitama tho.


The difference is that past Saitama was actually walking towards her while current Saitama was just standing still. So just because her current self can slightly lift Saitama doesn't mean she could stop past Saitama from walking towards her.

She only affected his clothes & hair back then, compared to affecting his muscles in later on.

I don't think this is true, perfect accuracy doesn't apply for impossibly good one.

It's literally listed as an example

I don't think it's because of aura etc here. His presence can be other things like "his experience, his knowledge" etc.

Then why wouldn't they just use experience or knowledge. Also, "has experience or knowledge that can make even Tatsumaki flinch," doesn't make much sense. If anything, his experience or knowledge would cause her to respect him, not make her flinch.

I have a thread about it as well, for the willpower and death though.

Already has it in the willpower page.

In willpower section.

Yes, even though its in the willpower page, we still normally list them on the character's profiles as well, like Garou, Psykos, Child Emperor etc.

Because of strength, Which doesn't apply for fear manipulation.

Elaborate. Are u saying Garou made them scared because of his strength? If so, that's clearly not the case. Zombieman states that he could feal the pressure of his aura, and the heroes no longer feared Garou after he lost his power and were actually trying to kill him, even though he still was far superior to them.

I think Genos said martial arts were useless when Bang proposed to become his master, so, unless I'm forgetting something, Genos shouldn't have that

People can think martial arts is useless, but still have it. Saitama thinks martial arts is useless, yet he's a better martial artist than Garou. Genos was dodging, and tagging Garou, forcing him to voluntarily use the WSRSF. That should be impossible without martial arts.

 

[MrTayman616]

We've seen Bang use it to deflect Rovers heat bombs(which apparently would've killed him) and took no damage. He also used it to deflect the RASRF, which reduces all the bones in the body to dust upon contact. Garou who was affected by hot water, could deflect it with WSRF without harm. He takes piercing damage, but can deflect blades when using the WSRSF, without taking even a scratch. It clearly nullifies the effects of attacks when deflecting

Deflecting a physical move isn't power null. I don't think deflecting an ability counts for it at all as well.

It's literally listed as an example

Oh okay then.

Elaborate. Are u saying Garou made them scared because of his strength? If so, that's clearly not the case. Zombieman states that he could feal the pressure of his aura, and the heroes no longer feared Garou after he lost his power and were actually trying to kill him, even though he still was far superior to them.

Yeah, they choose to attack when Garou fell, very injured etc etc. Narrator states it, they were scared because they knew those explosions were caused by him.

Injured fallen Garou(But he was strong) compared to Making nuclear fissions and Gamma ray burst + radiation Garou.

It's not fear manipulation in my opinion.

Then why wouldn't they just use experience or knowledge. Also, "has experience or knowledge that can make even Tatsumaki flinch," doesn't make much sense. If anything, his experience or knowledge would cause her to respect him, not make her flinch.

I didn't say it like that. Like that would make Child Emperor the scariest lmao.

I meant the meaning of "presence". Like is he respected that he has it? status, old age, dignity? Considering what Bang asked him in the manga as well.

People can think martial arts is useless, but still have it. Saitama thinks martial arts is useless, yet he's a better martial artist than Garou. Genos was dodging, and tagging Garou, forcing him to voluntarily use the WSRSF. That should be impossible without martial arts.

Not sure if fighting skills apply for "martial art mastery"

Yes, even though its in the willpower page, we still normally list them on the character's profiles as well, like Garou, Psykos, Child Emperor etc.

Still it wouldn't be low ig? healed from large and lasting scars.

 

[Entity]

Genos was dodging, and tagging Garou, forcing him to voluntarily use the WSRSF.

Wich means he is faster and stronger, Genos is brawler, not a martial artist and doesn't use martial arts and never learnt them or he wouldn't think they're useless, while Saitama only uses martial arts to humiliate Garou, not because he really needs them, it is a specific case. Tank Top Master made Garou use WSRSF too, but he isn't a martial artist

 

[Kachon123]

Deflecting a physical move isn't power null. I don't think deflecting an ability counts for it at all as well.

However, certain forms of Power Nullification may prevent the usage of powers through less direct methods, making resistance less useful and the strength of the ability less relevant.

Bang was actively interacting with a heat-attack that would have vaporized him on contact and a durability negating attack that would have pulverized him on contact. Him not being effected despite not doing anything that would prevent anyone else in his situation from getting eviscerated outside of applying the Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist would make it qualify for Power Nullification, or at least some limited form of it.

Yeah, they choose to attack when Garou fell, very injured etc etc. Narrator states it, they were scared because they knew those explosions were caused by him.

Injured fallen Garou(But he was strong) compared to Making nuclear fissions and Gamma ray burst + radiation Garou.

It's not fear manipulation in my opinion.

This is a misinterpretation of what happened. They were not fearful of Garou because they knew he caused the explosions, they knew Garou caused the explosions because they were scared of him. The people around didn't even know that a person could cause such events until Garou touched down and they physically felt the pressure from his fear aura.

 

[MrTayman616]

Bang was actively interacting with a heat-attack that would have vaporized him on contact and a durability negating attack that would have pulverized him on contact. Him not being effected despite not doing anything that would prevent anyone else in his situation from getting eviscerated outside of applying the Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist would make it qualify for Power Nullification, or at least some limited form of it.

Oh, i see.

This is a misinterpretation of what happened. They were not fearful of Garou because they knew he caused the explosions, they knew Garou caused the explosions because they were scared of him. The people around didn't even know that a person could cause such events until Garou touched down and they physically felt the pressure from his fear aura.

The people around were like "n-no way" in a way that not wanting to believe in my opinion.

Not that it matters though since i hadn't seen "the pressure" :d

 

[Kachon123]

The people around were like "n-no way" in a way that not wanting to believe in my opinion.

This understanding of the scene has no backing to it. The people around equated it to a normal nuclear attack, which is why even when Bomb suggested that it was people fighting causing it, they didn't attribute a human perpetrator until they saw Garou jump from the clouds.

It also would not make sense for them to be in petrified in fear and denial of Garou's power and then walk up to him right after unless what was making them scared was the inherent pressure exuded from Cosmic Fear.

 

[Raiden38]

Silver Fang
Attack Reflection, Power Nullification and Limited Damage Boost (Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist nullifies attacks,[1] and is capable of deflecting a redirection of the opponent's strikes. It can also redirect attacks with twice the force) We have multiple statements that the WSRSF nullifies attacks, and we've seen Bang use it to nullify Rover's heat bombs and Gaou's Roaring Aura Sky Ripping Fist.
Energy Manipulation (Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist takes knowledge of the flow of energy behind raging currents and tidal surges and recreates these within one's body, putting this into your fists)
Superhuman Precision (Can pierce the smallest vital points with unmatched accuracy[1])
Aura & Fear Manipulation (Has an aura that can make even Tatsumaki flinch[1])
Extrasensory Perception (Sensed a foreign evil inside Awakened Garou. Knew that Bomb's fist had no killing intent. Superior to Smile Man, who is able to sense he presence of others)
Weapon Mastery (Caught and snapped a blade with chopsticks while eating)
Unconventional Telepathy (Can communicate by transferring his thoughts through his fists. Only those with enough talent can hear it)
Accelerated Development (Claimed that he gets stronger while fighting)
Afterimage Creation (Created afterimages while fighting Garou)
Social Influencing (Reputation; Is respected by his pairs, and acknowledged as one of greatest Martial Artists in the world)
Resistance to Radiation Manipulation (Through sheer willpower, he survived exposure to Garou's radiation longer than anyone not fully resistant to it, despite being the closest) He should also get OPM's supernatural willpower since he lasted longer than even those with it.

Saitama
Regeneration (Low; Regenerated from the scratches of Octopus Claw Man, which left King with permanent scars)
Social Influencing (Influenced Genos into becoming his disciple. Motivated insecure individuals like Fubuki and Glasses to face their challenges and become better heroes. Convinced Tatsumaki to allow the the Blizzard Group to continue operating. Though initially unwilling, Tatsumaki went through with a hero recruitment commercial after recalling his words.
Immense Pain Tolerance (Endured extreme pain from his intense training regimen, to the point that it nearly killed him. Unfazed by the injuries he suffered from Octopus Claw Man. Withstood strikes from monsters like Crablante and Personification Of A Light Pull Cord)
Limited Attack Reflection with his head (Saitama’s head reflects light-based attacks, thanks to its baldness) There should be a note that says: His baldness makes his head so slippery that it resists sticky and gooey substances, as seen here.
Fear Manipulation (Completely scared Carnage Kabuto. Frightened Garou with his aura)

Genos
Limited Durability Negation (By melting his opponent’s insides)
Immortality (Type 2; Can keep fighting even with his body cut in half or limbs torn off)
Aura (His Lightning Drill Cannon engulfs him in a dragon-shaped electric aura)
Shockwave Creation (Blew away a swarm of mosquitos that surrounded him)
Data Manipulation & Memory Manipulation (His core is capable of recording events, and the stored memories can be extracted for later use or review)
Martial Arts Master (Able to contend with a martial arts genius like Garou in hand to hand combat)
Statistics Amplification (with boosters) Further with 10s mode
Afterimage Creation (Created afterimages with Machine Gun Blow)
Danmaku & Homing Attack (Can fire multiple homing energy beams from his arms at once)

All 3 should have resistance to Fear Manipulation, since they were unaffected by Garou's aura, which made everyone else besides Blast scared.

Tatsumaki
Social Influencing (Reputation and Instilling Fear; As the Class Rank 2 hero, she is respected by the public and has many fans around the world. Monsters fear her due to her overwhelming power and brutality on the battlefield)
Underground Mobility (Can travel underground)
Stealth Mastery (Invaded Psykos' body unnoticed by camouflaging herself as energy that Psykos was absorbing through her roots)
Immense Pain Tolerance (Shrugged off severe exhaustion, blood loss and injuries to continue fighting. Despite having been knocked unconscious, she woke up moments later and immediately began fighting waves of Black Sperms while still in a critical condition)
Limited Light Manipulation (Illuminated a giant spear with her green aura) I've seen profiles give light manipulation for having light based aura, so this should be fine
Weather Manipulation (Can create thunderstorms)
resistance to Illusion Creation (Saw through God's illusion)
resistance to Psychokinesis (Had her own psychic output turned against her, yet wasn't instantly crushed)

Upscaling Tatsumaki
Tatsumaki should get upscaled from mach 7278(Massively Hypersonic+) to mach 8740.3(Sub-Relativistic), which is a 1.2x increase. She effortlessly dodged all of Psykorochi's attacks while holding back significantly—so much so that she believed she could possibly have killed Saitama(who was no selling all of her attacks) with just a touch increased output, even after using power on par with what she used to overpower Psykorochi. During the fight, she kept increasing her output until she reached full power, to which she started pushing past her limits and moved him a little. Her Psychic output affects her speed. So, Full powered Tatsumaki>>>Touch increased Tatsumaki>>>The Tatsumaki who effortlessly dodged Psykorochi's beams>Psykorochi's beams(mach 7278).

In this thread, we were going to upscale her to moon level due to her layers of holding back. The only reason we didn't, was because the upscale would've been a 1.6x increase, which exceeded the wiki's 1.5x limit for upscaling(and even then, we were still considering it due to how far above Psykos Tatsumaki is). So considering that psychic output affects speed, a 1.2x upscale should be fine.

10s mode Genos(with boosters) should probably be upscaled as well, since he was able to intercept a more powerful beam just right before it reached Tatsumaki, and fired a beam of his own.

Tatsumaki Scaling Revision
Tatsumaki's AP justification is outdated, as it doesn't include anything after The MA arc. Her new scaling should be something like this:


Remove During-Training Saitama's Scaling from Tatsumaki
His scaling is as follows:

This scaling should be removed, as it assumes that Tatsumaki's strength has remained static over the years, ignoring any potential growth or development she may have undergone. Considering that she was unable to affect him with her telekinesis back then, but was able to slightly lift him off the ground during the Psychic Sisters arc, suggests that she's gotten stronger.

I agree with practically everything...
for the Tatsumaki and Saitama issue I remain neutral for now
and for the Genos and Martial Arts issue I'm quite perplexed about that

 

[Kachon123]

For Genos, change "Martial Arts Master" to "Skilled Hand to Hand Fighter." While he may not be a martial artist in a traditional sense, he is still very skilled and has been shown to contend with fighters like Garou, Sonic, and Flashy Flash. Many brawlers arguably less effective in combat than Genos like Yusuke Urameshi (Yu Yu Hakusho) get granted this ability for less, so Genos should be fine, albeit with slight modifications to the OP.

 

[Raiden38]

I hope this doesn't end up like the CRT on speed revision and the one from some time ago on jet psykos

 

[Kachon123]

Limited Durability Negation (By melting his opponent’s insides)

You should add this scan to Genos' Limited Durability Negation to show that it's viable in combat against non-mechanical opponents.

Danmaku & Homing Attack (Can fire multiple homing energy beams from his arms at once)

This can be added for Danmaku.

Danmaku & Homing Attack (Genos has access to more than two dozen individual guns across his body, which he can combine for larger, more powerful Incineration Cannon blasts, or to fire multiple homing energy beams from his arms at once)

 

[MrTayman616]

This can be added for Danmaku.

Also this i guess?

 

[DavidTPPM]

We've seen Bang use it to deflect Rovers heat bombs(which apparently would've killed him) and took no damage. He also used it to deflect the RASRF, which reduces all the bones in the body to dust upon contact. Garou who was affected by hot water, could deflect it with WSRF without harm. He takes piercing damage, but can deflect blades when using the WSRSF, without taking even a scratch. It clearly nullifies the effects of attacks when deflecting

Still not power null. He's redirecting the attacks not nullifying them

No, the way the narration describes "the flow" and clearly states that it's the same flow that is used to recreate other techniques (like whirlwind iron cutting fist) that manipulate & project energy, suggest that it is more than just moving your body. Also

That doesn't really matter. It doesn't fit the definition or the possible uses.

She should've been flatten, but wasn't. That's resistance. You don't need to have immunity to get resistance

No that's not resistance that's durability. Telekinesis is the ability to affect objects with thoughts and it's very much affecting Tatsumaki.

Surviving a telekinetic attack doesn't grant resistance the same way surviving a water attack doesn't grant resistance to water manipulation.

She only affected his clothes & hair back then, compared to affecting his muscles in later on.

No? He said it FEELS like his clothes are wrapped tightly around him because her TK was wrapped around him.

Bang was actively interacting with a heat-attack that would have vaporized him on contact and a durability negating attack that would have pulverized him on contact. Him not being effected despite not doing anything that would prevent anyone else in his situation from getting eviscerated outside of applying the Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist would make it qualify for Power Nullification, or at least some limited form of it.

Bang wasn't affected because he redirected the attacks meaning they didn't actually hit him. The shockwaves are what vaporized stuff, not just Garous hands passively.

 

[MrTayman616]

That doesn't really matter. It doesn't fit the definition or the possible uses.

Bang gets it with the same reasoning as Garou, kinda limited compared to it though.

 

[Kachon123]

Bang wasn't affected because he redirected the attacks meaning they didn't actually hit him.

Bang needs to hit the attacks he redirects.

The shockwaves are what vaporized stuff, not just Garous hands passively.

The shockwaves from far less potent and ranged techniques still hurt Bang despite him redirecting the actual attacks. Bang being able to stand his ground against Garou's Roaring Aura Sky Ripping Fist without getting pulverized while being unable to mitigate shockwave damage but still somehow not being pulverized is textbook Power Nullification.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Bang needs to hit the attacks he redirects.

Yes but he hits the attack from an angle not directly. It's like deflecting someone attacking you with a knife, you don't need to have some powernull or knife resistance to just not touch the blades edge.

The shockwaves from far less potent and ranged techniques still hurt Bang despite him redirecting the actual attacks.

Uhhh doesn't this literally prove Bang isn't negating anything and is still very much getting affected by the stuff he touches even when he deflects the attack…?

Bang being able to stand his ground against Garou's Roaring Aura Sky Ripping Fist without getting pulverized while being unable to mitigate shockwave damage but still somehow not being pulverized is textbook Power Nullification.

It really isn't. Bang getting affected by Garou's attacks despite redirecting them is understandable evidence he's not PNing anything.

Bang gets it with the same reasoning as Garou, kinda limited compared to it though.

That's completely different because Garou can literally create energy constructs to use in battle while Bang is straight up just moving similarly to a river

 

[Kachon123]

Yes but he hits the attack from an angle not directly. It's like deflecting someone attacking you with a knife, you don't need to have some powernull or knife resistance to just not touch the blades edge.

Interacting with a ball of heat is not the same as touching the flat side of a blade as opposed to its edge.

Uhhh doesn't this literally prove Bang isn't negating anything and is still very much getting affected by the stuff he touches even when he deflects the attack…?

It really isn't. Bang getting affected by Garou's attacks despite redirecting them is understandable evidence he's not PNing anything.

No, it proves that Bang is negating the pulverizing effect inherent to Roaring Aura Sky Ripping Fist, instead just getting hurt by the shockwaves as if they were normal shockwaves.

 

[MrTayman616]

That's completely different because Garou can literally create energy constructs to use in battle while Bang is straight up just moving similarly to a river

Bang can feel the flow of energy, became one with it, can recreate it in his fist. He takes the knowledge of flow of energy and recreates it.

 

[Entity]

Bang can feel the flow of energy, became one with it, can recreate it in his fist. He takes the knowledge of flow of energy and recreates it.

He understands the flow of energy of rivers and copies their movements

 

[MrTayman616]

He understands the flow of energy of rivers and copies their movements

The line itself "take the knowledge of the flow of energy of it" + "recreate it in your body" + "put it in your fist"

 

[Entity]

The line itself "take the knowledge of the flow of energy of it" + "recreate it in your body" + "put it in your fist"

Yes, river mimicry, he understands the flow of energy and then copies it, the difficult part is recreating it with fists and then the narrator says that is how Garou was able to copy easily other people's techniques, it is limited power mimicry or water mimicry

 

[MrTayman616]

Yes, river mimicry, he understands the flow of energy and then copies it, the difficult part is recreating it with fists and then the narrator says that is how Garou was able to copy easily other people's techniques, it is limited power mimicry or water mimicry

Garou can do it because everything is related to flow of energy. Not the same here.

 

[Entity]

Garou can do it because everything is related to flow of energy. Not the same here.

It's the same, Garou just applies it to other people and steals their techniques (not talking about Cosmic Garou obviously), the narrator says it too, what Garou does is an extension of what Bang does with rivers and streams of water, it is in the scan you sent

 

[MrTayman616]

the narrator says it too, what Garou does is an extension of what Bang does with rivers and streams of water

It's not extension of what "Bang" does.

It's the extension of flow of energy.

 

[Farfetchedx]

Still not power null. He's redirecting the attacks not nullifying them

He is. With your logic, any human can deflect lave with their bare hands and not get burnt. Bang touched rovers heat bombs without being burned. That's him nullifying the effects of the attack

That doesn't really matter. It doesn't fit the definition or the possible uses.

It does. I even showed you the scan of the water being manipulated at Bangs feet.

No that's not resistance that's durability. Telekinesis is the ability to affect objects with thoughts and it's very much affecting Tatsumaki.

Surviving a telekinetic attack doesn't grant resistance the same way surviving a water attack doesn't grant resistance to water manipulation.

here's another justification; Her barriers usually negate psychokinesis from weaker espers. The logic is, Psykos states that tatsumaki would be flatten instantly without her barrier, which suggest that her barrier resists Psychokinesis to certain degree, as telekinesis typically bypasses physical objects. Though I suppose it should be limited.

No? He said it FEELS like his clothes are wrapped tightly around him because her TK was wrapped around him.

This don't really matter either way, as we cant prove that Tatsumaki stayed the same over the years

This can be added for Danmaku.

Danmaku & Homing Attack (Genos has access to more than two dozen individual guns across his body, which he can combine for larger, more powerful Incineration Cannon blasts, or to fire multiple homing energy beams from his arms at once)

Sure, but did Genos always have homing attacks, or was it only since his post-elder centipede upgrade. If its the latter, I'm gonna have to split the abilities.

 

[Entity]

It's not extension of what "Bang" does.

It's the extension of flow of energy.

The flow of water

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

In Kabutos case that seems more like Kabuto himself just has some extraordinary perception that allowed him to sense Saitamas power.
Garou example looks alright tho. You could technically argue the same for him, especially given Saitama was visibly mad, but I think Garous comment makes it clear that he did feel some sort of pressure.

Fear Manipulation (Completely scared Carnage Kabuto. Frightened Garou with his aura)

Also this is nothing but Social Influencing, there should be a clear statement that proves that his aura is causing this or that this is just Social Influencing as some staffs say

 

[Entity]

Also this is nothing but Social Influencing, there should be a clear statement that proves that his aura is causing this or that this is just Social Influencing as some staffs say

How is it social influencing?

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

How is it social influencing?

The example provided does not meet our site standards. "It should be noted simply terrorizing the opponent either by authority, strength or demeanour only would qualify as Social Influencing, as Fear Manipulation would allow the user to inflict fear regardless of these factors." You would need a statement that their aura magically induces fear. Otherwise, being afraid of them would have no magical causal factors.

 

[Kachon123]

The example provided does not meet our site standards. "It should be noted simply terrorizing the opponent either by authority, strength or demeanour only would qualify as Social Influencing, as Fear Manipulation would allow the user to inflict fear regardless of these factors." You would need a statement that their aura magically induces fear. Otherwise, being afraid of them would have no magical causal factors.

Saitama's aura and pressure were mentioned in both of the links the OP provided. How could this be fear through authority or power?

Here are some additional instances

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Saitama's aura and pressure were mentioned in both of the links the OP provided. How could this be fear through authority or power?

Here are some additional instances

Fair. But why Saitama's aura has Overwhelming? It just Fear-inducing

 

[DavidTPPM]

Interacting with a ball of heat is not the same as touching the flat side of a blade as opposed to its edge.

Yeah but heat transfers over time. Tapping a ball of heat for a millisecond at MHS+ speeds is not going to do anything because the contact is too short to actually transfer any heat.

It's like how you can quickly dip your fingers in boiling hot water without even really feeling it but if you left them there for a whole second or 2 you'd probably have pretty painful burns.

No, it proves that Bang is negating the pulverizing effect inherent to Roaring Aura Sky Ripping Fist, instead just getting hurt by the shockwaves as if they were normal shockwaves.

Tf no it doesn't lol. If he was negating it he wouldn't be affected by it at all. The fact that he's affected by their effects to any degree proves there's no PN happening and he's really just redirecting it.

Bang can feel the flow of energy, became one with it, can recreate it in his fist. He takes the knowledge of flow of energy and recreates it.

And that does not fall under energy manipulation on the wiki. Otherwise any sort of movement would be energy manipulation.

He is. With your logic, any human can deflect lave with their bare hands and not get burnt. Bang touched rovers heat bombs without being burned. That's him nullifying the effects of the attack

Yes regular humans very much can deflect lava with their bare hands if they do it quickly enough since heat transfer isn't instantaneous, and possibly even thanks to the moisture in air creating a short Leidenfrost effect.

Bang not getting burned in a fraction of a fraction of a second doesn't prove any nullification or even any heat resistance.

It does. I even showed you the scan of the water being manipulated at Bangs feet.

Bang kicking something and that thing moving really isn't water manipulation lol.

here's another justification; Her barriers usually negate psychokinesis from weaker espers.

Overpowering weaker telekinesis with stronger telekinesis is not TK resistance at all same way using water manipulation to overpower weaker water manipulation isn't resistance to water manip.

The logic is, Psykos states that tatsumaki would be flatten instantly without her barrier, which suggest that her barrier resists Psychokinesis to certain degree, as telekinesis typically bypasses physical objects. Though I suppose it should be limited.

No, telekinesis doesn't inherently have any durability negation. Tatsumaki surviving TK just means her durability was high enough.

If Tatsumaki resisted telekinesis she could have literally just stood still and Psykos wouldn't have been able to affect her at all. This is like trying to give someone resistance to punches because they tanked one. Or like saying someone has mind manipulation resistance because they survived mind manipulation despite it successfully working on them.

This don't really matter either way, as we cant prove that Tatsumaki stayed the same over the years

Yeah but we don't have to prove something isn't true if there's no evidence proving it's right.

Like if I said Saitama became 9-C at the end of the last chapter you wouldn't have to prove me wrong to say he didn't.