Yamato (One Piece) vs Sarada

[That_moron2]

Sarada is 6-B, up to 6-A and Yamato is 6-B up to 6-A, speed is equalized

Sarada has a 1.8x A.P advantage against Base Yamato, but against Transformed Yamato they are at a 1.4x disadvatange even with Chidori

Yamato: 5 (@Mickey1940, @Johner2133451, @Kachon123, @SlendVeny, @Lynieryz)

Sarada: 12 (Me, @Foriaa, @Nierre, @Ebihara, @KaydeeX, @Raiden38, @karo_senpaii, @Apollonir.Scale, @thedaymare, @Shadowbokunohero, @AlternativePrinciple, @Godernet)

Incon:

 

[Nierre]

Dope matchup

 

[That_moron2]

Dope matchup

Thank you

 

[SlendVeny]

Sarada is Boruversal, gg

 

[Nierre]

I'm a bit confused by Yamato's rating. She's rated Country level but her value is 1.14 Petatons? Isn't that Continent level?

 

[That_moron2]

I'm a bit confused by Yamato's rating. She's Country level but her value is 1.14 Petatons? Isn't that Continent level?

I think they just forgot to update it

 

[That_moron2]

The value, that is

 

[Nierre]

Makes sense.

Sarada is pretty reactionary and analytical (especially if it's against an opponent she's never seen before, ala Boro or the Funato clan) so her first moves in this key are usually activating her Sharingan and watching her opponent from range and using Fireballs or Lightning balls to gauge said opponents.

 

[Foriaa]

Am I tweaking or Sarada's page not updated?

 

[Nierre]

Am I tweaking or Sarada's page not updated?

If you're talking about TBV, I'm currently making a whole new profile for timeskip. But her profile is "updated" for pre timeksip

 

[That_moron2]

Makes sense.

Sarada is pretty reactionary and analytical (especially if it's against an opponent she's never seen before, ala Boro or the Funato clan) so her first moves in this key are usually activating her Sharingan and watching her opponent from range and using Fireballs or Lightning balls to gauge said opponents.

I guess she can afford to go in close because she does have the AP advantage at least in base. Can Sarada's genjutsu work here?

 

[Nierre]

I guess she can afford to go in close because she does have the AP advantage at least in base. Can Sarada's genjutsu work here?

I wanna say yeah but like

One Piece supporters like to argue Haki can counter it which I'm on the fence about. Don't know how good Yamato is at Haki (Or how often she even uses it), but I think regardless there are layers to Sarada's so Yamato should get incapped regardless?

 

[That_moron2]

Don't know how good Yamato is at Haki (Or how often she even uses it),

Yamato doesn't have any observation feats

 

[Foriaa]

If you're talking about TBV, I'm currently making a whole new profile for timeskip. But her profile is "updated" for pre timeksip

Oh I see. Yea, this matchup is very interesting. Both have insane skill + analytical abilities that's going to make it hard for them to hit each other. Yamato does have a major LS advantage. I'll wait for both arguments.

 

[Nierre]

Yamato doesn't have any observation feats

Then that's a strong wincon for Sarada.

I guess she can afford to go in close because she does have the AP advantage at least in base.

Yamato does have a major LS advantage.

Sarada does grapple sometimes in character, which Yamato should easily be able to counter due to that massive LS advantage.

But honestly you could argue the Sharingan should be able to see Yamato's muscle contraction and see that she's WAY stronger than she is Lifting wise, and probably wouldn't go for it.

 

[That_moron2]

Then that's a strong wincon for Sarada.

Sarada can also one-shot base Yamato with Chidori

 

[Foriaa]

Sarada can also one-shot base Yamato with Chidori

True, inclined to think Sarada wins if she goes for a Chidori earlier on.

 

[That_moron2]

True, inclined to think Sarada wins if she goes for a Chidori earlier on.

Is that a vote? I'm voting for Sarada btw

 

[Foriaa]

Is that a vote? I'm voting for Sarada btw

Yea

 

[Nierre]

The slower character can't win solely because of a speed blitz wincon, plus Yamato matched Kaido's Thunder Bagua according to her page so Sarada's getting blitzed to hell and back if she gets hit.

Though Sarada has more avenues for winning (Genjutsu, More consistent use Sharingan precognition compared to Haki, much smarter in combat), so I'll vote for her as well.

 

[That_moron2]

The slower character can't win solely because of a speed blitz wincon, plus Yamato matched Kaido's Thunder Bagua according to her page so Sarada's getting blitzed to hell and back if she gets hit.

Though Sarada has more avenues for winning (Genjutsu, More consistent use Sharingan precognition compared to Haki, much smarter in combat), so I'll vote for her as well.

Counted

 

[Kachon123]

Conqueror's Haki is a big amp for Yamato, being able to one-shot folks more relative to her. If Yamato starts using that in combat I doubt Sarada would be able to keep up.

In her zoan state she has her Ice Mirror armor, which allows her to avoid taking damage until it breaks. Thunder Bagua is also a big speed blitz attack. I don't know if Sarada can survive a direct hit.

I'd argue that Kenbun would break out of Genjutsu, but even if it doesn't initially, Yamato was able to take a beating from Kaidou for an extended period of time and fought Ace to a stalemate until they both ran out of stamina. The same Ace who fought for 5 days straight. I doubt that Yamato would go down while under Genjutsu before she can get back into the fight and continue.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Though Sarada has more avenues for winning (Genjutsu, More consistent use Sharingan precognition compared to Haki, much smarter in combat), so I'll vote for her as well.

Something I just started wondering was how Genjutsu affects precog, meaning, will people who see precog in the future still be affected by it, or not?

 

[Mickey1940]

Zoan transformations are allowed?

then Yamato stomps

Base to Base Sarada is stronger (32 teratons to above 17.25 teratons), but once Yamato transforms/uses Conquerer's he shoots up to 4.56 petatons, or around 142 times stronger, and significantly faster as well. Even if Sarada locks her down with Genjutsu and tries to Chidori, it'll literally bounce off even without Armament

voting Yamato. Idk what the OP was thinking allowing a High 6A character fight a 6B, but I might not be looking at the updated profiles since I don't think they're linked in the match

 

[Nierre]

Sarada gets one-shot by any of Yamato's Zoan or Conqueror's Haki attacks, but Sarada has her Sharingan which allows her to assess the power level of her opponent, so she'll know that she's at a disadvantage, so she'll stay long distance unless she has a plan or no other choice.

I'd argue that Kenbun would break out of Genjutsu, but even if it doesn't initially, Yamato was able to take a beating from Kaidou for an extended period of time and fought Ace to a stalemate until they both ran out of stamina. The same Ace who fought for 5 days straight. I doubt that Yamato would go down while under Genjutsu before she can get back into the fight and continue.

Sarada can just Chidori her while she's incapped, or just break her mind with any Genjutsu mindhax, or maker her fall asleep etc etc

And according to that_moron, she has no Observation Haki feats and she doesnt even use it in character, so she'd just get trapped without even knowing, then Sarada can swiftly defeat her from there

Something I just started wondering was how Genjutsu affects precog, meaning, will people who see precog in the future still be affected by it, or not?

They would still get caught (unless they resist), but unless they know the mechanics of Genjutsu (and how to break out of it), they'll just see what the Genjutsu user shows them.

But also is heavily depends on the Precog itself (how it works, if it's passive or active, etc etc)

 

[Johner2133451]

Yamato fra

 

[Nierre]

I just deleted my post because I realized they both have prior knowledge which means Yamato can counter Sarada's sharingan by fighting without looking at her eyes.. and with the gap being that big, I might just change my vote lol. Yamato might stomp

Even if Sarada locks her down with Genjutsu and tries to Chidori, it'll literally bounce off even without Armament

It wouldn't bounce off because she'd be off guard if she was under a Genjutsu.

Not only that but it's 3.2 Petatons to 4.56 Petatons in durability

 

[That_moron2]

I just deleted my post because I realized they both have prior knowledge which means Yamato can counter Sarada's sharingan by fighting without looking at her eyes.. and with the gap being that big, I might just change my vote lol. Yamato might stomp

I'll remove prior knowledge

 

[Nierre]

Okay I undeleted by post then:

Sarada gets one-shot by any of Yamato's Zoan or Conqueror's Haki attacks, but Sarada has her Sharingan which allows her to assess the power level of her opponent, so she'll know that she's at a disadvantage, so she'll stay long distance unless she has a plan or no other choice.

Sarada can just Chidori her while she's incapped, or just break her mind with any Genjutsu mindhax, or maker her fall asleep etc etc

And according to that_moron, she has no Observation Haki feats and she doesnt even use it in character, so she'd just get trapped without even knowing, then Sarada can swiftly defeat her from there

They would still get caught (unless they resist), but unless they know the mechanics of Genjutsu (and how to break out of it), they'll just see what the Genjutsu user shows them.

But also is heavily depends on the Precog itself (how it works, if it's passive or active, etc etc)

 

[Mickey1940]

Sarada gets one-shot by any of Yamato's Zoan or Conqueror's Haki attacks, but Sarada has her Sharingan which allows her to assess the power level of her opponent, so she'll know that she's at a disadvantage, so she'll stay long distance unless she has a plan or no other choice.

makes sense but that... doesn't really help her cuz she doesn't have anything that can actually take advantage of that

Sarada can just Chidori her while she's incapped, or just break her mind with any Genjutsu mindhax, or maker her fall asleep etc etc

if Sarada starts out stronger and Yamato is overwhelmed, Yamato transforms and then there's nothing Sarada can do. Incapacitation doesn't cancel devil fruit transformations, so she'll still maintain the 142 times AP and dura advantage and Sarada can't actually kill her


observation really doesn't matter in this case since Yamato just outstats.
but if you want to talk about that:

Yamato's observation hasn't really been explicitly seen on screen (unless you consider Yamato seeing Shanks's haki after the war Observation Haki which I think is dumb), but the fact that she's able to keep up with Kaidou at all means she has to have at least some level of it, otherwise she'd just get completely bodied and out predicted every time, which Kaidou wasn't doing. It's not the strongest evidence, but it's kinda the only evidence we have at all

 

[Mickey1940]

It wouldn't bounce off because she'd be off guard if she was under a Genjutsu.

It's still a 142 times AP difference. This isn't dragon ball, characters in One Piece don't operate that way

 

[That_moron2]

It's still a 142 times AP difference

Its a 1.4x difference

 

[Nierre]

It's still a 142 times AP difference. This isn't dragon ball, characters in One Piece don't operate that way

Not only that but it's 3.2 Petatons to 4.56 Petatons in durability

makes sense but that... doesn't really help her cuz she doesn't have anything that can actually take advantage of that

The gap with Chidori just isn't that big lol

Incapacitation doesn't cancel devil fruit transformations, so she'll still maintain the 142 times AP and dura advantage and Sarada can't actually kill her

Why wouldn't it? If she's knocked out she'll go back to base, but like I said, her Chidori is still fully capable of harming her.

Yamato's observation hasn't really been explicitly seen on screen (unless you consider Yamato seeing Shanks's haki after the war Observation Haki which I think is dumb), but the fact that she's able to keep up with Kaidou at all means she has to have at least some level of it, otherwise she'd just get completely bodied and out predicted every time, which Kaidou wasn't doing. It's not the strongest evidence, but it's kinda the only evidence we have at all

Even if I granted this (which is dubious), this is under the assumption that:

1) Observation Haki can see through Genjutsu (which is ehhh)
2) Yamato always has Observation Haki active (which hasn't been proven so far)
3) And even if she does always have it active, you'd have to assume she has prior knowledge on how Genjutsu mechanics work - which she doesn't.

 

[Mickey1940]

The gap with Chidori just isn't that big lol

ur right, that's my bad, was too locked in by Sarada's base AP

It's still a pretty solid gap tho, 3.2 Petatons vs 4.56 Petatons, it's still rather significant

Why wouldn't it? If she's knocked out she'll go back to base, but like I said, her Chidori is still fully capable of harming her.

cuz pretty much every other zoan user doesn't

there are several characters in One Piece that have their transformation on all the time, like Chopper, Smiley, the zoan Dwarves, the Jailer Beasts, and Morgans, to such an extent that for some of these, we never even see their non-Zoan forms. Chopper especially doesn't cancel his Zoan transformations even after losing battles or getting knocked out/defeated, or after using Monster Point.

You need to either attack them with something FAR stronger than they can handle (Kaidou vs the Bajrang Gun), straight up kill them (Smiley), or use something like Conquerer's (Joy Boy's knot) in order to forcefully undo Zoan transformations, as those are the only examples of forced cancellation we've seen. Sarada isn't capable of doing any of these unless she spams several of Chidoris in a row, which... frankly I don't know if she can do cuz I didn't finish the Code's assault arc and in that arc her stamina is shit but if she can then she prob wins but if she can't she's kinda screwed

even if she launches the Chidori, any amount of severe pain (which the chidori can cause) can break standard Sharingan genjutsu anyways, so after a single use, Yamato breaks out, gets pissed, blitzes with Thunder Bagua gg, or just blast her with ice gg

speaking of the ice, I'm pretty sure Yamato being under Genjutsu doesn't cancel his passive Ice Armor so she's not hurting Yamato anyways until she breaks through, so she likely needs more than 1 Chidori to take him down anyways

Even if I granted this (which is dubious), this is under the assumption that:

1) Observation Haki can see through Genjutsu (which is ehhh)
2) Yamato always has Observation Haki active (which hasn't been proven so far)
3) And even if she does always have it active, you'd have to assume she has prior knowledge on how Genjutsu mechanics work - which she doesn't.

Observation Haki is described as "sensing intent" so maybe Yamato can try dodging it, but you're right, it can't block it at all, and even dodging it is purely speculative

1. You're right, it can't
2. You're right, he doesn't
3. that's true, he doesn't

but again, none of this really matters as natural durability + Ice Armor allows Yamato to survive a Chidori, break out of genjutsu, and just hit her once and Sarada dies

 

[Kachon123]

Sarada can just Chidori her while she's incapped, or just break her mind with any Genjutsu mindhax, or maker her fall asleep etc etc

Sarada has no way to break through her ice mirror armor, which allows a layer of defense.

And according to that_moron, she has no Observation Haki feats and she doesnt even use it in character, so she'd just get trapped without even knowing, then Sarada can swiftly defeat her from there

Well he's just wrong. She used it when she first fought Luffy.

Even if I granted this (which is dubious), this is under the assumption that:

1) Observation Haki can see through Genjutsu (which is ehhh)
2) Yamato always has Observation Haki active (which hasn't been proven so far)
3) And even if she does always have it active, you'd have to assume she has prior knowledge on how Genjutsu mechanics work - which she doesn't.

Haki is a sense outside of anything that Genjutsu effects. Even if it traps a certain set of senses, Yamato would still be actively sensing the person in front of her with her Haki. Haki isn't always active, but to be able to use it at an Intermediate level, you need to be able to use it subconsciously.

Yamato doesn't need to have prior knowledge on Genjutsu for her Haki to allow her to keep fighting. Kin'emon's other half was having full on battles with Brook and Luffy + Zoro without his knowledge. Yamato is a conqueror's Haki user. It wouldn't take long for her to break out.

 

[Johner2133451]

Yeah I don't see how Yamato is losing this, still voting for her

 

[That_moron2]

She used it when she first fought Luffy.

Wow they debatably used it once. Wow

 

[Kachon123]

Wow they debatably used it once. Wow

Out of the two times she's fought. I don't know what you're trying to prove. She sensed Greenbull and Shanks post-Wano as well.

 

[Nierre]

It's still a pretty solid gap tho, 3.2 Petatons vs 4.56 Petatons, it's still rather significant

Not really... but that's neither here nor there.

cuz pretty much every other zoan user doesn't

there are several characters in One Piece that have their transformation on all the time, like Chopper, Smiley, the zoan Dwarves, the Jailer Beasts, and Morgans, to such an extent that for some of these, we never even see their non-Zoan forms. Chopper especially doesn't cancel his Zoan transformations even after losing battles or getting knocked out/defeated, or after using Monster Point.

You need to either attack them with something FAR stronger than they can handle (Kaidou vs the Bajrang Gun), straight up kill them (Smiley), or use something like Conquerer's (Joy Boy's knot) in order to forcefully undo Zoan transformations, as those are the only examples of forced cancellation we've seen.

I'm fairly sure Chopper is a special case tbh but I could be wrong.
Either way though, Kaku reverted back to base after being defeated by Zoro, but it seems like a case by case thing cause Jabra wasn't.

Sarada isn't capable of doing any of these unless she spams several of Chidoris in a row, which... frankly I don't know if she can do cuz I didn't finish the Code's assault arc and in that arc her stamina is shit but if she can then she prob wins but if she can't she's kinda screwed

Her stamina aint that bad but we don't know how many Chidori's she can do in one go so it's speculative.

even if she launches the Chidori, any amount of severe pain (which the chidori can cause) can break standard Sharingan genjutsu anyways, so after a single use, Yamato breaks out, gets pissed, blitzes with Thunder Bagua gg, or just blast her with ice gg

Well yes, I agree but that's assuming the Chidori wouldn't kill her, incap what have you, in what go. She's definitely willing to kill (if she needs to)at this point too because in the Boro fight the whole team was trying to kill Boro (they came up with a plan which involved Boruto and Kawaki doing a massive rasengan blowing off half of his body including his head), and the only reason why she didn't chidori him in the head was because she was aiming for his core

speaking of the ice, I'm pretty sure Yamato being under Genjutsu doesn't cancel his passive Ice Armor so she's not hurting Yamato anyways until she breaks through, so she likely needs more than 1 Chidori to take him down anyways

Doesn't she have to activate the armor first? Or is it always on? I don't remember the functionality tbh.

 

[That_moron2]

Out of the two times she's fought.

Three, and its not even provable that she used it here. Likely, but not 100%

She sensed Greenbull and Shanks post-Wano as well.

Doesn't mean she can resist 4 layers