TenSura LN Major Misleading Revision - Part 3 (Revised)

[Dark_Soul20189]

The hero's unique skill "attack name(dunno what tensura translated it as :d)"originally seals its target away in an infinite imaginary space for eternity, seems to be not a power lenient enough to allow interference to the real world.

Thought about the attack name for like a minute lmao. (don't judge my english please )

Thank you.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Something that I think can be contradicting towards the suppose "solar system" range/DC/AP limit would be this feat by Velgrynd

Hero's unique skill of the "attack name(dunno what tensura translated it as :d)"originally seals its target away in an infinite imaginary space for eternity, seems to be not a power lenient enough to allow interference to the real world.

Calculation of Velgrynd’s magicule count complete. After accounting forthe subject’s nature and characteristics, I determined it is possible toencase the target in Insulated Imprisonment for several hundredseconds. Activating!

This was a compound skill, combining the ultimate skill Uriel’s UnlimitedImprisonment with Spatial Insulation. Ciel had crafted it just now, exclusivelyfor use against Velgrynd, and now she was caught in it.The combat airspace had been fully computed by Ciel—the temperature,humidity, gravity, wind currents, sunlight, the pulses of every living thing withinit. It was all in the palm of Ciel’s hand, and no matter what Velgrynd did, it’d beimpossible for her to leave this airspace.

She let out a raging roar. It was well past two hundred seconds, and that roarwas enough to shatter the Insulated Imprisonment. The Flame Dragon wasenraged, with no regard for her own self-preservation—and now she wouldunleash all her hostility upon Rimuru.

She let out a raging roar. It was well past two hundred seconds, and that roarwas enough to shatter the Insulated Imprisonment. The Flame Dragon wasenraged, with no regard for her own self-preservation—and now she wouldunleash all her hostility upon Rimuru.

Velgrynd, in rage, can destroy an "infinite-sized imaginary space". I think that should be good enough to keep the H3A at least, no?

 

[CodeCCLL]

I guess at least Tier 4, likely Tier 3, possibly Tier 2, at peak Tier 1 is best option.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

I guess at least Tier 4, likely Tier 3, possibly Tier 2, at peak Tier 1 is best option.

Let's not forget about Tier 0 "God"

Thought about the attack name for like a minute lmao.

The attack name is "Unlimited Imprisonment" or "Infinity Prison"

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Why are yall ignoring milim and feldway literally destroying the universe . Or ivarage destroying worlds and trying to destroy all of existence

 

[MrTayman616]

Infinity Prison

I was gonna write it, but i hate it when i can't write the attack name as something cool. It's for self satisfaction

 

[SeijiSetto]

I was gonna write it, but i hate it when i can't write the attack name as something cool. It's for self satisfaction

this guy isn't into chuunislop

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

I was gonna write it, but i hate it when i can't write the attack name as something cool. It's for self satisfaction

That's more than fair. Personally, I can't even copy and paste something correctly

 

[AlexSamDen]

Why are yall ignoring milim and feldway literally destroying the universe . Or ivarage destroying worlds and trying to destroy all of existence

We're waiting for you and others who should be discussing their arguments for that. I'm also interested in presenting some arguments, but waiting for smth like a separate place for discussing them

 

[AlexSamDen]

Velgrynd, in rage, can destroy an "infinite-sized imaginary space". I think that should be good enough to keep the H3A at least, no?

Wait, according to my knowledge about imaginary numbers, isn't that like an uncountable infinity? Those numbers are calculated not on a line, but a plain and even if we take a 2*2 square on a plain, the number of points in it is an uncountable infinity

Edit: wait a minute, I just realised that we're talking about infinite sized, would't that mean the total number of points on a plain? Like (uncountable infinity)*(uncountable infinity)?

 

[PrimeHydra64]

Also can be applied to Milim, she can just break out of it

 

[Berga14]

I'm also interested in presenting some arguments,

If those arguments are against Elde arguments then you can send them in the discussion thread or to me on discord

 

[Violatas]

We're waiting for you and others who should be discussing their arguments for that. I'm also interested in presenting some arguments, but waiting for smth like a separate place for discussing them

Should probably just make a group DM here or send your arguments to someone

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Something that I think can be contradicting towards the suppose "solar system" range/DC/AP limit would be this feat by Velgrynd









Velgrynd, in rage, can destroy an "infinite-sized imaginary space". I think that should be good enough to keep the H3A at least, no?

You want me to explain what happened there? Or are you willing to read the fight?

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

You want me to explain what happened there? Or are you willing to read the fight?

I did read the fight.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Are you 2 willing to ratify this translation?

本来、勇者のユニークスキル『無限牢獄』は、対象を永遠の時間、無限の虚数空間に封じ込めるスキルであり、現実世界への干渉を許す程甘い能力ではないのだそうだ。

The hero's Unlimited Imprisonment could hold its target captive in an infinite imaginary space for all of time.

Only wanna confirm this part, since the other stuff is irrelevant for the argument.

Raws were LN or WN?

I did read the fight.

What did we learn about Unlimited Prison, or whatever it's called in different translations?

Hey, so I had something I wanted to ask before I left, but…can’t you do anything about that seal on you?
Not with my powers, no. Someone with a unique skill on the same level as the hero’s would be necessary for there to be even a chance.
You don’t have any, Veldora?

Well, here, lemme try something…
I rolled over to Veldora and tapped my body against him.
Invoking unique skill Predator to consume unique skill Unlimited Imprisonment… Failed.
I figured as much, but no, I certainly wasn’t hero caliber. With a dazzling light, my unique skill tried to do its work but weakly bounced off without any further comment. I thought it might have made a small rip, but that was all. The barrier would repair itself shortly, no doubt. I was hoping that unique skill on unique skill would result in something, but it didn’t.
Was there anything I could do, though? Something…

- Volume 1
​

The skill can be countered by power equal to the user's, as far as I can tell from Volume 1. Not to mention, it's a barrier-based skill, as shown in the scan.

“…You’re unharmed? That’s impossible. My Cardinal Acceleration works against every type of barrier and defensive skill! If you took it that easily, what did you even do?”
Velgrynd was clearly losing her cool. If he had canceled out the attack somehow, that was one thing, but no barrier could ever have deflected it.

She already has an ability that nukes every type of barrier and defensive skill.

Calculation of Velgrynd’s magicule count complete. After accounting for the subject’s nature and characteristics, I determined it is possible to encase the target in Insulated Imprisonment for several hundred seconds. Activating!
Before Velgrynd realized it, a layered magic circle had surrounded her.
This was a compound skill, combining the ultimate skill Uriel’s Unlimited Imprisonment with Spatial Insulation. Ciel had crafted it just now, exclusively for use against Velgrynd, and now she was caught in it.

When Ciel sealed her, she calculated the amount of magicules she had and how long it could hold her down during her rampage.

Even Velgrynd, who seemed so overwhelming to me, was no match for it. Its suggestion—to have her activate her finisher skill, then wait for her magicule count to dwindle right afterward—was a perfect strategy.

Rimuru admits that she was overwhelming for him.

Even if Velgrynd went on a violent rampage, the Insulated Imprisonment will hold for a total of two hundred more seconds. I don’t think we need to worry about that, however.

No, as predicted, Velgrynd is currently trying to escape. I knew she could use a soul corridor to transfer energy away from her, so I considered the possibility that she’d flee without worrying too much about this replication before us.

She was going on a rampage inside that prison.

“What? Why are you so distraught?”
Velgrynd surveyed her surroundings, realizing what was going on. Despite that, she ignored Benimaru and his group, deciding her business was of much greater importance.
“My Replication has been captured by the demon lord Rimuru. It was going to take a few minutes to break through the barrier, so I wanted to return my powers to this body…”​

Even her parallel body stated that it would take some time to break through the barrier.

That is exactly what this was designed for.
“Prepare to have your body rot away, not a single piece of flesh left! Cardinal Acceleration!!”
It was her most powerful of techniques, eclipsing even Burning Embrace.
Cardinal Acceleration contained the full force and authority of Velgrynd. She crafted it in secret for Velzard, in preparation for the final battle they must wage at some point in the future; she’d never normally waste it on a mere demon lord, but she was too enraged to let that stop her.
With a roar from the crimson dragon, a wave of doom coursed toward Rimuru. This ultimate blow symbolized the pride of the Flame Dragon at her fastest, capable of making all matter collapse in an instant. It could bury any enemy, at a speed that made it impossible for anyone to avoid.

It seems like the Cardinal Acceleration skill can be used in different ways—such as through a roar in this case.

She let out a raging roar. It was well past two hundred seconds, and that roar was enough to shatter the Insulated Imprisonment. The Flame Dragon was enraged, with no regard for her own self-preservation—and now she would unleash all her hostility upon Rimuru.

Guess what? The time period that the barrier could hold her had ended, and she used the roar to shatter the imprisonment.

Velgrynd had higher stats at the time (or atleast that's what Rimuru implied), making Rimuru’s imprisonment skill less effective (as there was a time period was set for that while we do see there was nothing like that for Veldora when he was imprisoned by Hero). She was able to break free from the prison once the barrier was destroyed by her Cardinal Acceleration (from what I see), and there’s no need for High 3-A AP to explain this. Volume 1 clarified that physical damage doesn’t affect the barrier, as it’s skill-based. Additionally, Velgrynd possesses spatial manipulation, and it’s unclear what other attacks she might have used while imprisoned.

You are free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of this and feel free to show where any of the scans you sent shows any AP related stuff.

 

[CodeCCLL]

star system

attack

ミリムの両手の間に星粒子が煌めき、この世ならざる破壊の力が渦を巻いている。それは、星雲の如く。桁外れのエネルギーが超高密度に圧縮されており、星系すら軽々と消滅させかねないほどの危険 性を秘めていた。

中空で、白と赤の覇気
( オーラ)
が交差する。星系すら呑み込むであろう熱量が、その小さな質量に満ちていた。衝突するだけで大破壊が巻
き起こるのだが、地上は守護されているので、氷雪が狂ったように吹き荒れるだけで済んでいる。

Can you translated these two? I need it for calculation.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Also, shouldn't Pre-Halloween Carnival Ivarage be comparable to True Dragons?

No, because Veldanava needed to intervene and seal Ivarage since he was too much for them. I mean, didn't they all team up to fight him?

Guy Crimson and other Seraphs are definitely scaling to pre-Awakened Ivaraj. However, according to Eldemade, pre-Awakened Ivaraj would not be Low 2-C. Ivaraj should be equal to Veldanava since she is his evil half, but this seems to be the case for his awakened form (we will see in Volume 23)

The battle against Ivarage, the World-destroying Dragon commissioned by Veldanava, was also a pleasure. His fighting instincts were fierce, much to Guy’s satisfaction.

There were problems, though. They were so close in strength that they had to fight for three months. Moreover, he eventually escaped to the other world. Also, as a result of Guy’s rampage, the land had become a wasteland as far as the eye could see. He had learned a valuable lesson—Next time you get serious, you need to think about where you’re fighting.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Guy Crimson and other Seraphs are definitely scaling to pre-Awakened Ivaraj. However, according to Eldemade, pre-Awakened Ivaraj would not be Low 2-C. Ivaraj should be equal to Veldanava since she is his evil half, but this seems to be the case for his awakened form (we will see in Volume 23)

But something still bothered me.

“If Feldway really doesn’t care if the world’s destroyed, like Obela said, wouldn’t he try to release Ivalage on us?”

Feldway and Michael wanted to resurrect Veldanava, but even if they failed, we’d still be in big trouble. They might lose all hope and turn to wanton destruction. Nothing’s scarier than someone who doesn’t consider the consequences of their actions. That’s why I brought it up, however:

“I find that hard to believe, Rimuru.”

It seemed like a perfectly viable scenario to me, but it was surprisingly unpopular among my peers. First Luminus shot it down, followed by Daggrull. “Feldway,” he said, “isn’t enough of a fool to try using a monster too strong and uncontrollable for him to handle.”

Oh, so Ivalage is stronger than him?

“It was a real pain last time, lemme tell ya,” added Ramiris. “Guy took the dragon on, but I had to pitch in to make sure the whole planet didn’t get busted up!”

“Gah-ha-ha! Yeah, Ivalage really could destroy a planet if you’re not careful. Fight the wrong way, and you’re gonna have a lot of trouble on your hands,” said Daggrull.

“Maybe it’ll destroy his foes for him, but what about after that? You can’t really rule a world if it’s been torn to shreds,” I offered.

Huh… Guess I was being unrealistic. Ivalage honestly did seem like some kind of freak.

“Wah-ha-ha-ha-ha! Just the kind of opponent I like!” Milim crowed. “If it decides to rear its ugly head around me, I’m gonna give it a good thrashing!”

“Don’t.”

“Forget it.”

“Yeah, no way!”

“Milim,” Guy started, “me and everyone else here understand how strong you are, but you need to think this through. Not that I’m one to talk, but consider the damage you might cause to the surroundings.”

“Oooh, come on, I know how to let up a little, y’know? So whether it’s this world-destroying dragon or not, just a quick punch or two, and—”

“Okay, okay, fine. Realistically speaking, if Ivalage gets revived, then sure, I’ll take it on. I’ve been wanting to settle the score with it anyway. The next chance I have, I will take it out.”

Guy’s voice resonated ominously across the room. Nobody was going to challenge him on that. Milim looked a tad put off, but we all agreed that should Ivalage show up, Guy would take care of things.

- Volume 18
​

Actually, I was talking about Feldway not scaling to Ivarage, but there are statements for Guy scaling to pre-awakened Ivarage—even Milim too. But yes, if the pre-awakened Ivarage feat is just destroying the world over time, then that wouldn’t be Low 2-C.

Regarding current Ivarage scaling, like you said, it's better to wait for Volume 23. But I should mention this beforehand: I don't mind if Guy and Milim end up in Tier 2 because of Ivarage scaling, but let's not scale just anyone and everyone simply because they fought Ivarage. I think it should be handled on a case-by-case basis.

That said, since Rimuru has Turn Null and Tier 2 AP from Volume 21 onwards because it TN, I'm not opposed to Tier 2 scaling from him to other characters. It's just that having Tier 2 AP doesn't mean every character he fights should also be Tier 2.

For example, Rimuru mentions that it would have been easier to use brute force to cancel out the full-powered Dragon Nova Milim fired in Volume 22, but we later learn that it was Ciel who intentionally took the attack and didn't use Turn Null to defend. So it actually caused damage. I think this scenario doesn't mean Milim’s AP scales to Rimuru, who scales to Tier 2 via Turn Null.

I'm just giving an example of cases where Rimuru might not be operating at Tier 2 when fighting weaker characters than his current self.

 

[The_golden_and_silver_house94]

I don't mind if Guy and Milim end up in Tier 2 because of Ivarage scaling

I personally dont see guy having the DC or AP that surpasses some characters that wont (possibly) scale to tier 2,the author made it clear that its largely due to his immerse experience that makes him that strong so if guy is scaling to pre havest festival ivaraj so will characters like chloe,rudra ,velzard ,feldway , Michael etc simply for having higher DC than guy which the OP ,i believe ,is trying to prevent

 

[CodeCCLL]

- Volume 18
​

Actually, I was talking about Feldway not scaling to Ivarage, but there are statements for Guy scaling to pre-awakened Ivarage—even Milim too. But yes, if the pre-awakened Ivarage feat is just destroying the world over time, then that wouldn’t be Low 2-C.

Regarding current Ivarage scaling, like you said, it's better to wait for Volume 23. But I should mention this beforehand: I don't mind if Guy and Milim end up in Tier 2 because of Ivarage scaling, but let's not scale just anyone and everyone simply because they fought Ivarage. I think it should be handled on a case-by-case basis.

That said, since Rimuru has Turn Null and Tier 2 AP from Volume 21 onwards because it TN, I'm not opposed to Tier 2 scaling from him to other characters. It's just that having Tier 2 AP doesn't mean every character he fights should also be Tier 2.

For example, Rimuru mentions that it would have been easier to use brute force to cancel out the full-powered Dragon Nova Milim fired in Volume 22, but we later learn that it was Ciel who intentionally took the attack and didn't use Turn Null to defend. So it actually caused damage. I think this scenario doesn't mean Milim’s AP scales to Rimuru, who scales to Tier 2 via Turn Null.

I'm just giving an example of cases where Rimuru might not be operating at Tier 2 when fighting weaker characters than his current self.

As I said before, I don't want to make this thread longer, my goal is to end this thread and build scaling with solid foundations from the start. So right now I don't care what this thread ends up being, I have a lot of work to do anyway.

My priority right now is to calculate a minimum value for Milim's Dragon Nova's AP. However, it seems that there is not much feat in the wiki regarding the destruction of star systems, except for Star Wars and a few other verses. Basically, it is certain that the result will be 4-B. However, it is uncertain which star system will be used as basis to the calculation and accordingly how far above 4-B the calculation will be.

I spoke to a calc moderator about this feat and directed to someone else who made a similar calculation. I will continue once the necessary parts are translated.

 

[SeijiSetto]

Can you translated these two? I need it for calculation.

Spoiler: first

Particles sparkled between Milim's hands, an unbelievable destructive power whirling within them. It was like a nebula. That intense energy was compressed to an ultra-high density, and within it lay the potential to effortlessly annihilate even a star system.

Spoiler: second

Auras of red and white intersected mid-air. That small mass was filled with heat that could swallow even a star system. A mere impact would have caused great destruction, but because the ground was protected, it only ended up as a violent blizzard of ice and snow.

 

[Hjdjdhf]

Nebula generally refer to any astronomical diffusion celestial body, and under certain conditions, nebulae and stars can be converted into each other, right?This does not mean that it is at least 4C

 

[SeijiSetto]

Nebula generally refer to any astronomical diffusion celestial body, and under certain conditions, nebulae and stars can be converted into each other, right?This does not mean that it is at least 4C

the comparison to a nebula is not referring to the amount of power between her hands or what it can blow away, but instead the appearance of the power.

 

[Lycoris4812]

.

Apologies, but can you please translate these?

Spoiler

うむ。異世界へ赴く事は未だ成功事例がない。しかし、異世界からこちら側へは、時たまやって来る者がいる。"異邦人、もしくは異世界人、と呼ばれる者で、こちらの世界とは異なる特殊な知識を持つようだな。そういう者達は世界を渡る際に、特殊な能力を獲得するらしい。後は、先程言った異界の知識を持つと確認された"転生者、の記録が残っている。確認されていない者もいただろうがな

“カレラの準備動作を見ただけで危険を察知し、宣告を聞く前から『断罪之王』を展開させていたその速やかな状況判断こそが、近藤の近藤たる所以なのだ。　だが、今回は相手が悪かった。〝終末崩縮消滅波〟はデタラメなまでのカレラの魔力を前提とした極大魔法であり、その範囲も広大だ。ここが異界でなければ、どれだけの被害が出るかわからぬほどである。下手をすれば、異界すらも破壊しかねない──と、近藤は推測する。もしもそうなったならば、近藤を目標とするこの魔法の射線上の物質は、全て消滅する事になるだろう。そう看破していた”

あの時、リムルと別れて飛んだ先は、時間すらも超えた異世界であった。フェルドウェイに飛ばされた『並列存在』と無事に再統合したのは、どことも知れぬ異界の狭間だったのだ。

異空間を漂流するという非常事態で、逆に冷静さを取り戻せたのだった。
ヴェルグリンドは考えた。

いくつもの世界を巡り、時代を駆け抜け、ヴェルグリンドは〝魂〟の欠片を集め続けた。

そしてその衝撃で、少年はこの世界から消え去ったのである。ヴェルグリンドの手に残ったのは、始まりの欠片のみ。

他の異次元から来訪する勢力もいたが、この三勢力のいずれかによって元の次元ごと滅ぼされていた。

他次元並列世界〟で連動するようにして、人類が誕生した。

ヴェルグリンドが最初に跳んだのは、どことも知れぬ異界の狭間だった。

そこは、時空の狭間なのだ迷宮は異界──つまり、亜空間に隣接しており、数多の別次元世界とも接している場所にあった。であるからこそ、迷宮の外が基軸世界であるのならば、迷宮の内側こそが〝外縁部〟と称されているのだった。

ディアブロの〝終末世界への鎮魂歌〟は、世界が崩壊する様を再現して局所的破壊を巻き起こす、究極の幻想・元素系破滅魔法である。能力と技術、そして魔法の複合技で、言うまでもなくディアブロのオリジナルにして最強最悪の奥義であった。

ただし、その秘めたる威力は──宇宙開闢以来で最大となる、絶禍の破壊力を生じさせるものだった。

られないのである。
　これが、マイが元の世界への帰還を諦めた理由であった。
　隣接する次元であれば、壁を越えられる場合もある。
　しかし、次元によっては壁の高さもマチマチなので、どうあっても不可能な場合があった。それこそ〝冥界門〟を探すなりして、コツコツと次元探索を繰り返すしか手はないのである。
　マイには無限に等しい寿命があるが、それでも無理だと断ずる他ない。何しろ、次元ごとに時間軸は異なっているからだ。
　時間軸を同期させた状態の世界間なら、次元跳躍しても時差はない。しかし現実的には、そういう現象は期待出来なかった。
　同じ世界の宇宙でさえ、光速を超える速度で空間は膨張を続けているのだ。時間と空間の相関性など、マイの理解の及ぶ範囲にないのである”

 

[Violatas]

At this point let's just put SeijiSetto on the supporter page for the verse tbhhh

 

[Lycoris4812]

???, I couldn't see the discord picture, but apologies for the number of translations. I swear they are important for this crt.

 

[Violatas]

???, I couldn't see the discord picture, but apologies for the number of translations. I swear they are important for this crt.

It's just a joke lol

 

[Lycoris4812]

It's just a joke lol

I know.

 

[SeijiSetto]

At this point let's just put SeijiSetto on the supporter page for the verse tbhhh

 

[AlexSamDen]

Could you please translate this one?

他の異次元から来訪する勢力もいたが、この三勢力のいずれかに
よって元の次元ごと滅ぼされていた。それほどまでに、この三勢力
は比類なき武威を誇っていたのだ。

 

[Reiner04]

Could you please translate this one?

Please take translation requests to their own thread. If someone is willing to translate them, they can translate it even there, and only ask for translation for something if it actually have any relation to the topic at hands.

 

[AlexSamDen]

Please take translation requests to their own thread. If someone is willing to translate them, they can translate it even there, and only ask for translation for something if it actually have any relation to the topic at hands.

It is directly related to the topic

 

[Reiner04]

It is directly related to the topic

Still take it to the translation request thread.

 

[Hjdjdhf]

Could you please translate this one?

It's not very accurate, but I probably translated it. Here's“異次元” should refer to a certain space, not a dimension like sixth or seventh dimension.Because it is mentioned here that there are other people from other dimensions, since they are from a certain place, the dimension here is more like space (place).
What I said is for reference only, and there may be something wrong with the translation.

 

[AlexSamDen]

It's not very accurate, but I probably translated it. Here's“異次元” should refer to a certain space, not a dimension like sixth or seventh dimension.Because it is mentioned here that there are other people from other dimensions, since they are from a certain place, the dimension here is more like space (place).
What I said is for reference only, and there may be something wrong with the translation.

I'm almost certain it says dimensions, however I would like the whole thing to be translated, as what matters to me in this fragment is the whole meaning

 

[MrTayman616]

Could you please translate this one?

How is it related though?

 

[AlexSamDen]

How is it related though?

If my suspicions I got from reading non-english Tl and an MTL of this fragment are correct, then, with some other contexts, it will solve the whole Zalario issue

 

[MrTayman616]

If my suspicions I got from reading non-english Tl and an MTL of this fragment are correct, then, with some other contexts, it will solve the whole Zalario issue

How? (curious also forgot the topic of the thread, also there might be others curious about it too :d , might also make it a higher priority for the translator etc etc )

 

[AlexSamDen]

How? (curious also forgot the topic of the thread, also there might be others curious about it too :d , might also make it a higher priority for the translator etc etc )

From the translations I've read, this fragment has a part which roughly says: sometimes forces from other dimensions appear, but in the end, no matter who they are, they get destroyed by one of those three forces together with their dimension