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Zeldris vs Monkey D. Luffy

Kachon123 said:
This is marco-quantum level transmutation. That won't work.

It's not 25x faster than Gear 5.
Click to expand...
Are you starting Luffy off in gear 5 because the stamina weakness is still there? Zeldris can just make more darkness to replace it. It makes no difference because Luffy wouldn't be able to break ON before his time limit, then he gets one shot. I am voting for Zeldris.
 
speedster352 said:
Are you starting Luffy off in gear 5 because the stamina weakness is still there? Zeldris can just make more darkness to replace it. It makes no difference because Luffy wouldn't be able to break ON before his time limit, then he gets one shot. I am voting for Zeldris.
Click to expand...
They're both FTL, the time limit is irrelevant. Luffy can just continue to pump and beat his heart. He has also shown to be able to move in and out of Gear 5th much easier.

Even if he makes more they're still getting transmuted. Luffy's transmutation range is large on top of him having giant hands too.
 
Kachon123 said:
They're both FTL, the time limit is irrelevant. Luffy can just continue to pump and beat his heart. He has also shown to be able to move in and out of Gear 5th much easier.

Even if he makes more they're still getting transmuted. Luffy's transmutation range is large on top of him having giant hands too.
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There is a limit to that as seen in the Luffy vs Kizaru fight and by the way if he depowers he loses to ominous Nebula because weaker attacks from Franky were working on him. Again Luffy need to transmute every single fibre of darkness which would be difficult when its 25x faster and much stronger than him. Again Zeldris can win with tyrant killing since it has deconstruction. By the way ominous bind does this Paralysis Inducement with Ominous Bind. Does Luffy resist this?
 
Kachon123 said:
They're both FTL, the time limit is irrelevant. Luffy can just continue to pump and beat his heart. He has also shown to be able to move in and out of Gear 5th much easier.

Even if he makes more they're still getting transmuted. Luffy's transmutation range is large on top of him having giant hands too.
Click to expand...
Luffy resists blunt force so it’ll reduce ON damage but he’ll still take damage and it’s thousands of hits in one go.

Zeldris also can amp his ON with full react
 
Demon_Lord18 said:
... 💀

So, I don't see how he's turning the Ominous Nebula into rubber here, given that he wouldn't even know what's hitting him, and he needs to touch each bar of the ON with his hand.
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Rubberizing is a passive effect of Gear 5th lmao. Are you being serious right now?
 
Kachon123 said:
Rubberizing is a passive effect of Gear 5th lmao.
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I don't see anything in his profile saying that this is passive.

Subjective Reality, Reality Warping & Toon Force (Can turn his imagination into reality, ranging from breaking physics in a cartoon fashion, altering his environment into rubber, and effects such as making his opponent view stars and birds as if it were a cartoon. Kaidou stated that his abilities were like something from a comic strip. Stated to be capable of fighting in anyway he wishes)
Transmutation (Macro-Quantum; Demonstrated that he is able to apply this effect on intangible matter such as bolts of lightning, which are composed of electrons. Can turn the environment to rubber, allowing him to bounce off of it as he wishes, similar to a Paramecia Awakening. Capable of turning other creatures into rubber, as he made Kaidou's body elastic)
Click to expand...
 
Kachon123 said:
Jesus Christ man, it's a devil fruit awakening, that's literally his ability. Everything he grabs or touches gets effected.
Click to expand...
Everything Luffy turned into rubber, he had to touch with his hands. I don't see him doing this passively at any moment, meaning he needs to touch each bar of the ON. Literally, he didn't turn Kaido's mace into rubber.

Besides the ON not turning into rubber forever, since Kaido soon returned to normal.
 
Demon_Lord18 said:
Everything Luffy turned into rubber, he had to touch with his hands. I don't see him doing this passively at any moment, meaning he needs to touch each bar of the ON. Literally, he didn't turn Kaido's mace into rubber.

Besides the ON not turning into rubber forever, since Kaido soon returned to normal.
Click to expand...
Brother, Luffy transforming turned Egghead and the surrounding Ocean into rubber. Luffy when walking and when hit into the ground turns them into rubber just because they come into contact with his body. You don't know what you're talking about. You're adding a stipulation that has never been stated
 
Kachon123 said:
Brother, Luffy transforming turned Egghead and the surrounding Ocean into rubber. Luffy when walking and when hit into the ground turns them into rubber just because they come into contact with his body. You don't know what you're talking about. You're adding a stipulation that has never been stated
Click to expand...
Where are the scans to prove this claim?
 
At first glance I’m leaning towards Luffy, but later when I get the chance to I’ll read through the comments before I give my actual vote
 
Demon_Lord18 said:
Could you show me in the scan where it says the ocean was turned into rubber or show me an onomatopoeia for something bouncing?
Click to expand...
Now earth quakes wouldn't make a "dun duh duh duh" sounds when they're present right?
In the middle left panel, the girl wouldn't say "WOAH! NIKA!" which is Gear 5's alternative.
Furthermore, in the center panel, "we are floating above the water" is NOT an earthquake aftermath, rather it is the ship bouncing, as seen in the effects right below it.

How does one commit a fallacy that's not even on the fallacy page? ☠️
 
speedster352 said:
What about this lets just list the win cons for both sides and let other vote?
Click to expand...
Zeldris has:
-35x Luffy’s base value (which is the form he starts in) far higher with ON
Layered Curse manip + he can litteraly « defend his curse having total control over the spiritual space of his curse preventing anything that would try to break it »
AOE attacks with Hellblaze can touch Haki users but apparently won’t really deal much damage

Luffy has LS crush if he survives
And Will resist better ON if he transforms it into rubber Which is apparently unsure
He has many ways to bypass durability (Zel can regen Without any drawback at EOS/CBL so idk)

It’s pretty likely that ON will land and Even with blunt force resistance ON is individually at more than 3x G5 durability

ON lands thousands of hits at the same time which would probably be deadly even if Luffy could reduce the damage (He visibly didn’t against Kaido’s weapon)
 
Kachon123 said:
CBL Zeldris isn't being used
Click to expand...
Ok but that was just EOS Zel’s stats tho

CBL would be downscaling from 300 zt

EOS Zel is weaker and has less mastery over ON (He is shown using it while flying too tho)
 
Kachon123 said:
I'm saying that Zeldris doesn't have a 35x advantage.
Click to expand...
Zeldris has a 35x advantage to base luffy using enchantments and around 4.3x from ON to G5

He also has speed advantage with ON

And according to what Demon Lord showed Luffy doesn’t always change the opps weapons and would have to constantly turn the new darkness tendrils to rubber so he don’t get turned to small bits.

Change my vote to neutral I feel like both could take this
 
Makai641001 said:
Zeldris has a 35x advantage to base luffy using enchantments and around 4.3x from ON to G5
Click to expand...
No, Zeldris has a 3.49x advantage from Base Luffy. Just like Zeldris can add enchantments, Luffy can use his Gears (which he uses more in combat that his base anyways).
Zeldris: 1.513 Zettatons, 15.13 Zettatons with enchantments, 30 Zettatons with Ominous Nebula
Luffy: 433 Exatons, 1.731 Zettatons in Gear 4th: Snakeman or Gear 2nd + Gear 3rd, 3.462 Zettatons in Gear 4th: Boundman

So more likely than not by the time Zeldris is using enchantments, Luffy is not 35x below that value, but something closer to 5-6x due to Gears.
Makai641001 said:
He also has speed advantage with ON
Click to expand...
This is true, but ON would not be fast enough to be a perception blitz due to Luffy's sensory abilities, speed multipliers, precog/future sight, and instinctive reaction,
Makai641001 said:
And according to what Demon Lord showed Luffy doesn’t always change the opps weapons and would have to constantly turn the new darkness tendrils to rubber so he don’t get turned to small bits.
Click to expand...
What Demon Lord said is incorrect.

He said that Lufy doesn't change his opponents weapons to rubber, but in the scene he sent, Luffy instead used his body manipulation to avoid taking damage entirely by morphing his body around the shape of the weapon, even if it has resistance negation. This is on Luffy's profile:
Click to expand...


It has been shown time and time again that when Luffy is in Gear 5th, he passively turns his surroundings into rubber.

As he lays down he passively turns the ground under him into rubber, causing him to bounce. This prompts Kaidou to state that Luffy is "transferring [his] rubber power to other things."
He gets hit into the ground by Kaidou but the ground passively gets turned into rubber, softening the effect of Kaidou's blow
Luffy continues to bounce as the ground below him gets turned into rubber
Luffy transforms into Gear 5th and the ground around him automatically and passively turns into rubber, sending all the marine soldiers around him flying.
Luffy's transformation turns an entire half of Egghead Island into rubber, causing the inhabitants to feel like the entire thing is shaking.
Luffy's transformation causes Egghead Island and the surrounding Seas to turning into bouncy rubber, causing the ships to bounce and the people to feel an earthquake

Luffy in Gear 5th also actively turns things into rubber, as in the things he goes out of his way to touch and interact with become rubber.

Luffy enters inside of Kaidou's body and moves around, turning Kaidou's innards into rubber as a result. Kaidou responds saying "What's wrong with me?! My body isn't made of rubber!"
Luffy turns Kaidou's skin into rubber, but leaves his internals normal in order to act as a form of durability negation when he strikes. This is on Luffy's profile:
Durability Negation (Can attack the insides of people's bodies by making their outsides rubbery, allowing him to strike the insides of somebody's body through the outside)
Click to expand...
All of Luffy's attacks turn Kaidou into rubber.
Luffy grabs lightning and it turns into rubber. He is able to swing on it or throw it as a projectile.
Luffy grabs onto Kaidou while he is unconscious and Kaidou's skin turns into rubber despite the fact.
Luffy punches the ground and it turns into rubber, morphing around his fist to where he desires.
Luffy jumps into a pipe and it automatically turns into rubber, which he uses as a boost to hit Luffy, which the area his fist comes into contact with also turning into rubber.
Luffy grabs two opponents relative to himself, turns them into rubber, smashes them together until they are flat (durability negation), spins them on his finger, and throws them away as BFR and they remain rubber until he desires.
Luffy turns a 3D hologram made of light into rubber, which allows him to morph it into a baseball bat and use it to hit away several explosive balls powerful enough to destroy the body of someone far more durable than even himself without the bat itself getting destroyed.
 
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