Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

[MinatoSparkle]

sure. I don't have their speeds that much higher considering Sasuke is able to damage Code, which to me means it's not a blitz level speed gap. So he should be able to tango, even if inferior.

Jigen was heavily overwhelming Naruto and Sasuke speedwise

Base Momoshiki sure.

Thanks to her MS, sure. Fights aren't black and white, just because she has a solid advantage with her MS doesn't mean they can't counterplay or stand a chance.

Sasuke is still far more skilled than Sarada even with the MS. Code and neither of the Shinju (probably bar Jura) are that skilled so putting Sarada above or comparable to them doesn't matter.

We're not talking about a skill ranking. If Sarada defeats a majority of characters on a certain level with a few (arguable) exceptions, then the "not black and white" aspect applies to those inferior characters that are bad match ups, not her.

Jura is included in the statement the Shinju's being too much for Code to Handle. That being the case, what actually scales anyone other than Jura over Jigen?

1. Eida hadn't seen anything from Jura
2. They tangoed with Boruto who fought Code

 

[Nierre]

Jigen was heavily overwhelming Naruto and Sasuke speedwise

I don't have Code > V2 Jigen.

We're not talking about a skill ranking. If Sarada defeats a majority of characters on a certain level with a few (arguable) exceptions, then the "not black and white" aspect applies to those inferior characters that are bad match ups, not her.

disagree.

 

[Nierre]

That being the case, what actually scales anyone other than Jura over Jigen?

Mamushi fought Boruto.

Hidari's Chidori clashed with Boruto's Rasengan.

Ryu threatened to kill Code so he should possibly scale to/above him.

Matsuri has absolutely nothing

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I don't have Code > V2 Jigen.

Ic

disagree.

What's your logic in determining where a character ranks if they lose to X and beat some people superior to X?

 

[AnimesFreak2]

Yall think Sarada will obtain EMS by taking in Sasuke's old eyes still back at the Uchiha Graveyard?

Or you think Kishi will forget ( or just want to try something new ) and go a different route to her getting them?

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

1. Eida hadn't seen anything from Jura

If we're going off solely what what she saw then the only thing Eida saw from them at that time was:

1. A bull-rush from Mamushi.
2. A Rasengan/Chidori Clash from Hidari & Boruto.
3. A restriction Jutsu from Matsuri.

You know what else she saw?

1. Base Code match Boruto.
2. Boruto defeat Full Power Code with a Teleportation Jutsu & Uzuhiko.

So Eida at no point saw anything from the Shinju that approaches Uzuhiko. And based on feats, the Shinju Individually are only relative Base Code physically and higher stronger than Base Code with Jutsu. Only Jura has the feats of being > Full Power Code.

And only FPC is > Jigen.

2. They tangoed with Boruto who fought Code

"Tangoed" is Generous. Mamushi only has 1 encounter with Boruto that simply scales him to him physically, where Base Code already scales to. Hidari has very poor feats against Boruto and Matsuri only used a restraining Jutsu that Boruto didn't even get the chance to combat because Koji was begging him to retreat (As we know Jura kills Boruto).

Rn, nothing even scales Boruto above Jigen sans Uzuhiko unless people try to stretch his battle with Code.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

If we're going off solely what what she saw then the only thing Eida saw from them at that time was:

1. A bull-rush from Mamushi.
2. A Rasengan/Chidori Clash from Hidari & Boruto.
3. A restriction Jutsu from Matsuri.

You know what else she saw?

1. Base Code match Boruto.
2. Boruto defeat Full Power Code with a Teleportation Jutsu & Uzuhiko.

So Eida at no point saw anything from the Shinju that approaches Uzuhiko. And based on feats, the Shinju Individually are only relative Base Code physically and higher stronger than Base Code with Jutsu. Only Jura has the feats of being > Full Power Code.

And only FPC is > Jigen.

If Boruto was simply trying harder against the Shinju and Eida saw this, it would explain the supposed discrepancy. Nothing you said is not a counter to what I said; that Eida saw the Shinju Ego fighting Boruto, and judged that they're out of Code's league.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Yall think Sarada will obtain EMS by taking in Sasuke's old eyes still back at the Uchiha Graveyard?

Or you think Kishi will forget ( or just want to try something new ) and go a different route to her getting them?

It’s been like what 20 years? Aren't they like decomposed?

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

If Boruto was simply trying harder against the Shinju and Eida saw this, it would explain the supposed discrepancy. Nothing you said is not a counter to what I said; that Eida saw the Shinju Ego fighting Boruto, and judged that they're out of Code's league.

And again, this all stems from the obsessive need to try and stretch Boruto's showing against Code beyond what's reasonable, among other things, but **** it.

It is what it is and if that's what other people view as the more reasonable and plausible in this case, so be it. Time will tell.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I mean why do you think Eida said what she said?

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

I mean why do you think Eida said what she said?

Honest to god opinion? Eida isn't a trustworthy source. By her own admission she's not good at taijutsu, and showed ignorant indifference between Uzuhiko and Base Rasengan. She's not capable enough in her own right to assess a goddamn thing beyond the superficial, as she isn't a combative type. Daemon for example would be better suited to assess Code's capability in regards to the Shinju's.

Perhaps it can be chalked up to her viewing Boruto telling Code to help him or he'll die as well, but again, this is taking the Shinju as a collective, Including Jura, but outside of that, Code is still performing ON PAR with Boruto, Base to Base.

Based on the feats, Base Code = Base Boruto and sans FTG Spam & Uzuhiko, Eida hasn't seen the Shinju fight on the level of Full Power Code. At best we can get the Shinju over Base Code with Jutsu, bc there is evidence for that, and the more Boruto presses them, the stronger I think the case is.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Tears man, how come everyone's turned on Nishio? Apart from Pre timeskip Kawaki's horrid hairstyle, his designs are neat.

only twitter goons, and the fact that the anime butchers his artstyle often.

 

[JohnHendrix212]

It’s been like what 20 years? Aren't they like decomposed?

Not with ninja magic.

 

[JohnHendrix212]

Mamushi fought Boruto.

Hidari's Chidori clashed with Boruto's Rasengan.

Ryu threatened to kill Code so he should possibly scale to/above him.

Matsuri has absolutely nothing

Didn't Boruto struggle to physically get out of Matsuri's Earth Style?

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Didn't Boruto struggle to physically get out of Matsuri's Earth Style?

No. He didn't even try as Koji was pleading with him to leave. He reluctantly left but he didn't even attempt to get out of Matsuri's Jutsu.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Do we know, give or take, how large a boost Kv2 is over Kv1?

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/1183963823774908507/1364235592845492254/IMG_7778.jpg?ex=6808eee7&is=68079d67&hm=44c0556ebf6abfb6b7aa150960d82422d9051378364df89672d1a560970f36c2&

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

My Chiha ~ Tobi-"isagoodboy"-rama

 

[Testarossa002]

It'd be prudent to wait until more details about the shinju exist before trying to scale them to anywhere. Based on how it SHOULD work, Mamushi, being an ego of Bug, should be much weaker than someone like Hidari. But that hardly seems to be the case. Add the fact that their feats/statements are not exactly lining up with each other. For example, Hidari clashed his Chidori with Bort's Rasengan. Only to have that Boruto level attack blocked by Konohamaru. Konohamaru who was going to die to a limbless Matsuri (i'd imagine Koji has used prescience to evaluate all possible futures. Including one where Konohamaru attempts the rasen-barrier against Matsuri). The same matsuri who got no-diffed by Boruto who didn't even use any ninjutsu
It's a very different case from the Boruto era kages who have single feats against more established opponents (i.e opponents who have feats, statements and narrative intents that support them being that strong) and little anti-feats afterwards.
Now, i don't hold the monopoly on boruto scaling. I can't stop you from deriving conclusions from the current info. I simply feel it'll be better to hold off on any concrete hitoshinju scaling for now

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Do we consider Limited WK Code a "One Shot" Tier above Pre-Skip Kv1 Boruto?

Edit: Nvm. I just went back to read the chapter. Code was testing Boruto in that instance so I doubt he was going as hard as he could've but 2 hits and Boruto was massively hurt and couldn't get back up. 3 hits and he was out.

So Limited WK Code is at least a Blitz Tier and Two Shot Tier above Kv1 Boruto (Pre-Skip).

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Konohamaru who was going to die to a limbless Matsuri (i'd imagine Koji has used prescience to evaluate all possible futures. Including one where Konohamaru attempts the rasen-barrier against Matsuri). The same matsuri who got no-diffed by Boruto who didn't even use any ninjutsu

1. Konohamaru was injured at that point
2. Boruto used FTG

 

[Nierre]

Didn't Boruto struggle to physically get out of Matsuri's Earth Style?

lifting strength I guess lol

 

[garp2]

Obito was able to Link Kamui to Kaguya's Core Dimension and Kaguya's Core Dimension is somehow linked to all her other Dimensions. So yes, Kamui can connect two Dimensions together so long as they are linked in some fashion.

But why he used a portal instead of using kamui to link the main dimension to the other dimensions?

As for why DMS Kakashi didn't go back to the Ice Dimension (Assuming you mean to escape ETSB), it doesn't really matter what Dimension he went to. The point was to defeat Kaguya.

I know the main point was defeating her but at that time they really wanted to escape from etso if they can, I believe that would have been better scenario though

Yeah, they "could've" gone to the Ice Dimension instead of Kamui Dimension (Although it's gonna be more Chakra taxing).

Idt so because when obito went from main dimension to ice dimension his chakra was already drained by opening portals so it doesn't need more chakra

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Oh shit, I just realized something. Our Jigen scaling may be contextually off a bit...

This scan implies that this is the first time Isshiki notices the extent to which Jigen's body can't handle his full power.

If that is the case, this means when Jigen and Daemon fought (For Daemon to even be aware of what Jigen's capabilities were), or for Code to know he was stronger than Jigen, Kv2 wasn't used, or he was swifty stomped before Jigen's Body could start breaking down.

This means 1 of 2 things if I am correct:

1. Nobody knew about the true capabilities of Kv2 Jigen, making Daemon's assessment & Code's need for a limiter solely based on beating Kv1 Jigen.
2. Daemon & Limitless Code are FAR More impressive than initially thought.

If we're being conservative, it's likely #1. Logically, the fact that Isshiki told Amadou the reason he was looking for new vessels (Page 2), kinda lends credence to the fact he wouldn't want to fight in Kv2 State if he already knew Jigen couldn't handle it. Isshiki should be aware of the level of strength he'd need to beat Daemon or Code just by evaluating how Kv1 does against them.

Which would mean from their perspectives, they only know Kv1 Jigen. And to further justify this... Why would Isshiki want Cyborgs he'd need Kv2 to stand against if he knows Jigen can't handle that power? He'd judge it based off what's safe for Jigen's body, his only working vessel at that time, thus it makes no sense for him to test their power against the Kv2 state.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

But why he used a portal instead of using kamui to link the main dimension to the other dimensions?

Idk what you mean by this... The portal and his ability to warp himself and others is both Kamui. Using Kamui to teleport around the dimension is one thing. Going back and forth from that dimension to Kamui Dimension is one thing. These aren't Chakra taxing for him. Opening a Kamui Portal from One Dimension to another separate Dimension is. It's chakra taxing for even Kaguya and Sasuke.

I know the main point was defeating her but at that time they really wanted to escape from etso if they can, I believe that would have been better scenario though

Idt so because when obito went from main dimension to ice dimension his chakra was already drained by opening portals so it doesn't need more chakra

His chakra wasn't fully drained, obviously. It's just incredibly chakra taxing, stated multiple times.

 

[Nierre]

Oh shit, I just realized something. Our Jigen scaling may be contextually off a bit...

This scan implies that this is the first time Isshiki notices the extent to which Jigen's body can't handle his full power.

If that is the case, this means when Jigen and Daemon fought (For Daemon to even be aware of what Jigen's capabilities were), or for Code to know he was stronger than Jigen, Kv2 wasn't used, or he was swifty stomped before Jigen's Body could start breaking down.

This means 1 of 2 things if I am correct:

1. Nobody knew about the true capabilities of Kv2 Jigen, making Daemon's assessment & Code's need for a limiter solely based on beating Kv1 Jigen.
2. Daemon & Limitless Code are FAR More impressive than initially thought.

If we're being conservative, it's likely #1. Logically, the fact that Isshiki told Amadou the reason he was looking for new vessels (Page 2), kinda lends credence to the fact he wouldn't want to fight in Kv2 State if he already knew Jigen couldn't handle it. Isshiki should be aware of the level of strength he'd need to beat Daemon or Code just by evaluating how Kv1 does against them.

Which would mean from their perspectives, they only know Kv1 Jigen. And to further justify this... Why would Isshiki want Cyborgs he'd need Kv2 to stand against if he knows Jigen can't handle that power? He'd judge it based off what's safe for Jigen's body, his only working vessel at that time, thus it makes no sense for him to test their power against the Kv2 state.

@UchihaSlayer96 @Shadowbokunohero

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Oh shit, I just realized something. Our Jigen scaling may be contextually off a bit...

This scan implies that this is the first time Isshiki notices the extent to which Jigen's body can't handle his full power.

If that is the case, this means when Jigen and Daemon fought (For Daemon to even be aware of what Jigen's capabilities were), or for Code to know he was stronger than Jigen, Kv2 wasn't used, or he was swifty stomped before Jigen's Body could start breaking down.

This means 1 of 2 things if I am correct:

1. Nobody knew about the true capabilities of Kv2 Jigen, making Daemon's assessment & Code's need for a limiter solely based on beating Kv1 Jigen.
2. Daemon & Limitless Code are FAR More impressive than initially thought.

If we're being conservative, it's likely #1. Logically, the fact that Isshiki told Amadou the reason he was looking for new vessels (Page 2), kinda lends credence to the fact he wouldn't want to fight in Kv2 State if he already knew Jigen couldn't handle it. Isshiki should be aware of the level of strength he'd need to beat Daemon or Code just by evaluating how Kv1 does against them.

Which would mean from their perspectives, they only know Kv1 Jigen. And to further justify this... Why would Isshiki want Cyborgs he'd need Kv2 to stand against if he knows Jigen can't handle that power? He'd judge it based off what's safe for Jigen's body, his only working vessel at that time, thus it makes no sense for him to test their power against the Kv2 state.

It could be that Jigen's body is progressively deteriorating, and that's why he said "This vessel's done for." Idt the idea of Code/Daemon beating K2 Jigen before his body starts breaking is preposterous either, given that they're stated to be far stronger, and in Daemon's case especially, he beat Code in 3 blows, who's already superior to Jigen.

Besides, it's not just that they were practically a threat to Jigen, but more broadly that they're far superior in power. You'd also think Amado would specify that the cyborgs are only stronger than K1 Jigen if was the case, so "misconceptions" like this didn't occur.

 

[Samlex1234]

Just to clarify a few things, when Amado and the others say Code is stronger than Jigen, they’re clearly referring to V2 Jigen, Jigen’s prime state. The breakdown of Jigen’s body wasn’t really because it was his first time using that level of power or state, but rather because his body couldn’t sustain such massive chakra output over an extended duration, meaning of he had ended the fight earlier he would most likely be fine .

1. Amado is a reliable source, as he has directly monitored and measured Jigen’s power levels over the years. He knows exactly when Jigen is at full power or nearly depleted.
   Source
2. While some claim Jigen’s body had never cracked before and I can understand where they are coming from I disagree personally. Jigen himself admits this happens when he pushes past his limits, calling it a “bad habit”, which suggests he’s gone all out before, (possibly in training or sparring against Kara members). This is important because even if we say this is the first time he is experiencing the body crack, it is definitely not the first time he is using V2 and as I mentioned earlier the main reason Jigen body cracked was due to not being able to keep up with the chakra output in V2 over an extended period.
3. Naruto and Sasuke were so terrified of Isshiki because they experienced firsthand how overwhelming V2 Jigen was. Sasuke even said they couldn’t leave a scratch on him, a statement that only makes sense if he was referring to V2 Jigen. They could still somewhat keep up with V1 Jigen even before using their avatar forms.
   Source

I get that Code’s portrayal hasn’t lived up to expectations, but narratively, he’s consistently placed above V2 Jigen. And every character shown to rival or surpass Code are also placed above V2 Jigen by statements and feats.
Source

 

[Kayzz]

We all in agreement that MS Sarada is top 10 in the verse?

Tbh, she doesn't beat Kaguya. Nor does she have anything against kamui.
IMO.
1. Shibai
2. Jura
3. Isshiki
4. Daemon
5. Kaguya
6. Naruto
7. Boruto
8. Kawaki (FP)
9. Code
10. Fused Momoshiki

Before this chapter, I didn't rate the other Shinju high anymore. This chapter was the final confirmation after Boruto reduced Matsuri to steak pieces. They are not on Boruto's level.

 

[Ar1216789]

we've already extensively gone over why the events of that movie cannot be canon

The novel heavily references the movie

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Tbh, she doesn't beat Kaguya.

8th Gate Guy wouldn't beat any Edo, but I wouldn't rank him below them because of that

Nor does she have anything against kamui.

She blitzes any version of Obito and probably even DMS Kakashi with Chidori

 

[Kayzz]

Mamushi fought Boruto.

Hidari's Chidori clashed with Boruto's Rasengan.

Ryu threatened to kill Code so he should possibly scale to/above him.

Matsuri has absolutely nothing

You see here's the problem.
Boruto only scales over Code with Uzuhiko.
Base Code was clashing evenly with Boruto.

We can't use statements like threatening to kill.
Delta said the same thing multiple times, even after Naruto beat the shit out of her

 

[Kayzz]

8th Gate Guy wouldn't beat any Edo, but I wouldn't rank him below them because of that

She blitzes any version of Obito and probably even DMS Kakashi with Chidori

If you are talking strictly AP, what exactly does she have above Kaguya though? There's nobody in the verse above Kaguya's ETSB potency except Shibai. Kaguya's ETSB is still the AP standard. The strongest God tiers scale to her, which Sarada is not among.

Nope she does not blitz Obito and Kakashi. Her best feat is reacting to Hidari. Hidari hasn't shown anything spectacular when it comes to speed.

 

[Samlex1234]

You see here's the problem.
Boruto only scales over Code with Uzuhiko.
Base Code was clashing evenly with Boruto.

We can't use statements like threatening to kill.
Delta said the same thing multiple times, even after Naruto beat the shit out of her

Boruto clowns Code every time, Uzuhiko or not. He was clearly toying with him during their fights, casually walking up while charging Uzuhiko with Code right in front of him. If you actually reread the fight, it’s obvious Boruto let Code touch his hands on purpose to get the coiling stuff on him, hence him saying he is “halfway there” In that entire fight Code never landed a direct hit. Even Karma Code doesn’t really scale, he got completely blitzed the moment Boruto finished charging Uzuhiko.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

If you are talking strictly AP, what exactly does she have above Kaguya though? There's nobody in the verse above Kaguya's ETSB potency except Shibai. Kaguya's ETSB is still the AP standard. The strongest God tiers scale to her, which Sarada is not among.

I'm not talking crossverse. Inverse, Sarada being able to damage Jigen level+ characters is a far better assertion than anything Kaguya has. ETSO is also not really a conventional "attack" anyways.

Nope she does not blitz Obito and Kakashi. Her best feat is reacting to Hidari. Hidari hasn't shown anything spectacular when it comes to speed.

She also blitzed Ryu over a distance and tagged Hidari (albeit after he missed his Chidori)

 

[Kayzz]

Boruto clowns Code every time, Uzuhiko or not. He was clearly toying with him during their fights, casually walking up while charging Uzuhiko with Code right in front of him. If you actually reread the fight, it’s obvious Boruto let Code touch his hands on purpose to get the coiling stuff on him, hence him saying he is “halfway there” In that entire fight Code never landed a direct hit. Even Karma Code doesn’t really scale, he got completely blitzed the moment Boruto finished charging Uzuhiko.

There was no toying with Code, neither was there any blitzing. The underestimating of Code and bluff by Boruto was brought to you by the fortune teller, Koji. They have already planned everything in advance.
What really happened -- Boruto charges Uzuhiko. Base Code jumped through the black bands in order to attack Boruto from behind. Boruto ducked, countered with Uzuhiko. Code catches Boruto Uzuhiko's hand. Karma begins to activate. It was already to late by the time, Uzuhiko had already entrapped Code. Code's movements were wonky, and his vision already blurry.
That so-called high-speed movement by Boruto could easily have been ftg. However, it won't count as blitzing since Code was pretty much sight and movement impeded.

 

[Nierre]

You see here's the problem.
Boruto only scales over Code with Uzuhiko.
Base Code was clashing evenly with Boruto.

We can't use statements like threatening to kill.
Delta said the same thing multiple times, even after Naruto beat the shit out of her

I don't disagree

 

[Kayzz]

I'm not talking crossverse. Inverse, Sarada being able to damage Jigen level+ characters is a far better assertion than anything Kaguya has. ETSO is also not really a conventional "attack" anyways.

She also blitzed Ryu over a distance and tagged Hidari (albeit after he missed his Chidori)

Kaguya (likely pre-shinju) damaged Isshiki, boss.

She blitzed a Ryu that just took damage from Mitsuki. Plus I don't rate the shinju individually, above Code or Jigen (Besides Jura)

 

[Kayzz]

We've gotten to the point where Konohamaru is stronger than RSM Naruto, yet he is not the kage.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

In regards to Code, time will tell when he has another proper fight. I've already gone over my opinion of Base Code & Boruto but nothing is going to change until he has more showings.