Conceptual Manipulation for Zhuo Fan

[Youngwolf-0.1]

The scan doesn't state any of that.

The scan doesn't state that they are "higher-order conceptual truths". Your explanation aren't related to the scans you send, at all.

The scan doesn’t need to use the term “concept” or “law” verbatim for it to support cm. What matters is how the Dao, the Ten Paths, and the Sovereigns function within the cosmology let’s me examine what is actually said
This is a direct in-scan statement confirming the existence of impersonal, pre-existing structures that govern the world. These aren’t spells or techniques they are autonomous laws that even gods must follow. The Ten Paths are stated to be part of these fundamental systems, which is exactly what qualifies them as conceptual frameworks or metaphysical rules.

I stop here i dont have enough evidence for cm the verse is really lack of information

 

[SweetDao]

The scan doesn’t need to use the term “concept” or “law” verbatim for it to support cm. What matters is how the Dao, the Ten Paths, and the Sovereigns function within the cosmology let’s me examine what is actually said

I know that, but the thing is, all the scans you sent doesn't correlate with any sort of CM. It's really not complicated to show law manipulation/conceptual manipulation in cultivation novel, so I'm sure if you search hard enough, you will easily find some stuff.

 

[Youngwolf-0.1]

I know that, but the thing is, all the scans you sent doesn't correlate with any sort of CM. It's really not complicated to show law manipulation/conceptual manipulation in cultivation novel, so I'm sure if you search hard enough, you will easily find some stuff.

Yes, i will find some evidence maybe i can find for cm since verse in never mentioned concept, fundamental, etc

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

You're french?

no from a small island former french colony

 

[Frey_Starlight]

The scan doesn’t need to use the term “concept” or “law” verbatim for it to support cm. What matters is how the Dao, the Ten Paths, and the Sovereigns function within the cosmology let’s me examine what is actually said
This is a direct in-scan statement confirming the existence of impersonal, pre-existing structures that govern the world. These aren’t spells or techniques they are autonomous laws that even gods must follow. The Ten Paths are stated to be part of these fundamental systems, which is exactly what qualifies them as conceptual frameworks or metaphysical rules.

I stop here i dont have enough evidence for cm the verse is really lack of information

as i have previously said, in the Q&A, if you can just show something which is abstract for something present in reality, it would work.
like Human Dao is an abstraction of all Humans and destroying Human Dao will destroy Humans. (it's close to the example even the CM skill used to explain) if the novel has powers similar to that, it should give evidance for CM

 

[Youngwolf-0.1]

as i have previously said, in the Q&A, if you can just show something which is abstract for something present in reality, it would work.
like Human Dao is an abstraction of all Humans and destroying Human Dao will destroy Humans. (it's close to the example even the CM skill used to explain) if the novel has powers similar to that, it should give evidance for CM

I try to find some evidence can i use this or not or just memory manip
“You can’t go back. I have erased all traces of you and me. You are there, a completely non-existent person. Whether it is ancient books or people's memories, there are only the ancient nine emperors, without you... Of course, there is no name of my steward!

 

[Youngwolf-0.1]

I try to find some evidence can i use this or not or just memory manip
“You can’t go back. I have erased all traces of you and me. You are there, a completely non-existent person. Whether it is ancient books or people's memories, there are only the ancient nine emperors, without you... Of course, there is no name of my steward!

@Frey_Starlight

 

[Rikimarox2]

Not really seeing any CM here as well. Are these really the only scans for Daos? Considering how majority of the series describe Daos as something the defines existence or something, I'd expected there'd be a statement in Demonic Emperor/Magic Emperor.

Regardless, even after seeing the scans, I'm not seeing CM. Put me in Disagree.

 

[Youngwolf-0.1]

Not really seeing any CM here as well. Are these really the only scans for Daos?

I try to find some scans

Considering how majority of the series describe Daos as something the defines existence or something, I'd expected there'd be a statement in Demonic Emperor/Magic Emperor.

Did you read the novel or manhua?

 

[Rikimarox2]

I haven't read that much, no. I tried to read the novel, but the translation was killing me (not sure if there was better translation) with it seeming like MTL, so I just dropped it. The beginning was kinda fine in terms of TLs, and I honestly liked it, but oh well. The Manhua, I haven't tried much, but the art seemed nice.

 

[Youngwolf-0.1]

I haven't read that much, no. I tried to read the novel, but the translation was killing me (not sure if there was better translation) with it seeming like MTL, so I just dropped it. The beginning was kinda fine in terms of TLs, and I honestly liked it, but oh well. The Manhua, I haven't tried much, but the art seemed nice.f

If you want to read it i recommend to read in Divine Dao library there tl it's good

 

[Frey_Starlight]

I try to find some evidence can i use this or not or just memory manip
“You can’t go back. I have erased all traces of you and me. You are there, a completely non-existent person. Whether it is ancient books or people's memories, there are only the ancient nine emperors, without you... Of course, there is no name of my steward!

Doesn't this sound more like a typical EE, MC is "alive" due to his NEP physiology, iirc you already had proposed a NEP type 1 in the previous missing hax crt.
this isn't CM.

 

[Le_démon_Araii]

comme je l'ai déjà dit dans les questions-réponses, si vous pouviez simplement montrer quelque chose d'abstrait pour quelque chose de présent dans la réalité, cela fonctionnerait.
comme le Dao Humain est une abstraction de tous les Humains et détruire le Dao Humain détruira les Humains. (c'est proche de l'exemple même de la compétence CM utilisée pour expliquer) si le roman a des pouvoirs similaires à cela, il devrait donner des preuves pour CM

Ce qui pourrait fonctionner, c'est la voie des enfers et celle de la réincarnation, car grâce à la voie des enfers, il est possible de gérer le Nether et de permettre aux âmes d'effacer leur passé afin de se réincarner. La voie de la réincarnation permet de gérer le lac céleste de la réincarnation, ce qui permet également de se réincarner sans mourir et d'observer les différentes vies antérieures. Détruire ces deux voies détruirait le Nether et le cycle de la réincarnation.

 

[Reiner04]

no from a small island former french colony

Or jhut bolo.

 

[Frey_Starlight]

Ce qui pourrait fonctionner, c'est la voie des enfers et celle de la réincarnation, car grâce à la voie des enfers, il est possible de gérer le Nether et de permettre aux âmes d'effacer leur passé afin de se réincarner. La voie de la réincarnation permet de gérer le lac céleste de la réincarnation, ce qui permet également de se réincarner sans mourir et d'observer les différentes vies antérieures. Détruire ces deux voies détruirait le Nether et le cycle de la réincarnation.

This is what Google TL'D for me "What could work is the path of hell and the path of reincarnation, because through the path of hell, it is possible to manage the Nether and allow souls to erase their past in order to reincarnate. The path of reincarnation allows one to manage the celestial lake of reincarnation, which also allows one to reincarnate without dying and to observe different past lives. Destroying these two paths would destroy the Nether and the cycle of reincarnation."

if you have scans for it with what Dao actually defines as in the novel, maybe works

 

[BreezeHM]

Vous dites cela, mais comment expliquez-vous le fait que ce même blog ait été utilisé pour Yang Kai par Martial Peak et ait même été accepté ?

Ce blog nous permet de donner des informations manquantes ou mal expliquées, alors nous pouvons aussi nous baser sur le principe du Dao mais le vsbw n'accepte pas cela même si le travail lui-même est basé dessus.

Just gonna pop in quickly to explain this. Planck's blog was used as a reference so it's easier for people to understand the 1-A arguments and to give credit. Someone already linked the thread Dao was accepted as Type 1 so I won't get into that.

Since the translator for this series is the same one that Translated Martial Peak, I did see a couple scans for Dao when gathering MP Scans, so I'm positive there's things that could at least land you CM Type 2. I'll look into it and see if I can find them again.

 

[Le_démon_Araii]

This is what Google TL'D for me "What could work is the path of hell and the path of reincarnation, because through the path of hell, it is possible to manage the Nether and allow souls to erase their past in order to reincarnate. The path of reincarnation allows one to manage the celestial lake of reincarnation, which also allows one to reincarnate without dying and to observe different past lives. Destroying these two paths would destroy the Nether and the cycle of reincarnation."

if you have scans for it with what Dao actually defines as in the novel, maybe works

Yes, that's it, but it's weird, I'd double-checked that my comment was in English.

Yes, I'd have to find it again, but I can't remember the chap.

 

[Le_démon_Araii]

Just gonna pop in quickly to explain this. Planck's blog was used as a reference so it's easier for people to understand the 1-A arguments and to give credit. Someone already linked the thread Dao was accepted as Type 1 so I won't get into that.

Since the translator for this series is the same one that Translated Martial Peak, I did see a couple scans for Dao when gathering MP Scans, so I'm positive there's things that could at least land you CM Type 2. I'll look into it and see if I can find them again.

OK, thanks.

 

[BreezeHM]

Alright so found some things.

Dao is the path a Cultivator comprehends and pursues.

“Under their guidance, humanity began to comprehend the Dao, beginning to cultivate and grow stronger. Countless experts rose to prominence while the supremacy of the sacred beasts upon the world began to wane. They were driven back to the forests and mountains. Only then did we realize that heaven was impartial. While our might was incredible, our intelligence was not. Be it sacred beasts or spiritual beasts, none could understand the heart’s mysteries, blocking our advance. Humanity was weak, but was very sharp too, with the chance to rise to the top. Especially those ten, they have become the peak of this world’s power.” - 796

With a saddened look, Elder Yuan shook his head, “Public opinion is merely a method, while what matters is wisdom. That is what makes people follow you. Without it, you might catch their hearts in short term, but they would soon scatter later. When you understand the meaning of Dao, when you find your path, we’ll then speak of the Sect Leader position.” - 782

He Yunshan’s face twitched, “The Sacred Mountains train in the strongest cultivation methods, and we don’t move around as long as we have resources so that we ease our understanding of Dao. This is the fastest way to the Sovereign Stage. Instead of sharing resources thinly across everyone, we centralize the resources on the best talents, none of the resources will be wasted. Of course, these cultivators must support the Sacred Mountains as well. We must keep it in the family.” - 1286

The Dao is the foundation for all existence.

Heavenly Sovereign mocked, “Dao is the foundation of everything in existence, discarded like a rag the minute the demonic path arrived. The world is tainted, no longer caring about Dao. What’s terrifying is the demons in humanity. As the Heavenly Sovereign I shall stand in heaven’s stead to enact the Dao by purging all demons. As such, since you’re all born of the demonic path, you all must be removed for being opposite of my path.” - 1237

Laws govern the World

The array master pointed at the sky, explaining, “The world’s forces are in balance, governed by its own laws. These can never be breached by any mortals. ...." - 920

The Sovereign Stage allows one to use their Path and manipulate the Laws of the World.

The Heavenly Sovereign sneered, “The Sovereign Stage is nothing before the Supreme Stage. Let me tell you from my insight, that the Sovereign Stage means grasping the worlds’ paths and using the world laws. While a Supreme can grasp the world, destroy or create it. Sovereigns are bugs to them, killed with but a thought.” - 1304

At a certain realm, one breaks free from the World's Laws

“Under their guidance, humanity began to comprehend the Dao, beginning to cultivate and grow stronger. Countless experts rose to prominence while the supremacy of the sacred beasts upon the world began to wane. They were driven back to the forests and mountains. Only then did we realize that heaven was impartial. While our might was incredible, our intelligence was not. Be it sacred beasts or spiritual beasts, none could understand the heart’s mysteries, blocking our advance. Humanity was weak, but was very sharp too, with the chance to rise to the top. Especially those ten, they have become the peak of this world’s power.” - 828

Heaven's Will is the source of everything, including the Paths/Dao.

“No. You fail to understand that Heaven’s Will is as much as our creator as we are it’s creator. It might be the source of everything and anything, but it, at the same time, it is affected by its creation. What you want was never possible, for it meant creating a whole new Heaven’s Will. That would mean an entirely new realm govern by another equal, yet different, power.” Zhuo Fan’s answer crushed Heavenly Sovereign’s hope, but the dream still did not fade." - 1343

To convince Heavenly Sovereign, the world around the two shifted to a white space with nothing in it, nothing at all.

“The cleansed Heaven’s Will!” Heavenly Sovereign gasped in joy, only to frown moments later. “Wait, its far too pure. There’s simply nothing, nothing at all!”
“Yes, for you see, you’d have to destroy everything Heaven’s Will created to reach your goal, even yourself, for it can never go back. But even so, our Heaven’s Will has already experienced the creation of humanity and all living things. It would be impossible to forget that, just how it’s impossible for you to forget who you are.” Zhuo Fan explained. - 1343

Heaven's Will can be used to create an entirely new world (please don't try 1-A)

“What will you do now? Would you prefer an untainted Heaven’s Will, a new canvas for you to paint as you want, or to stay here to learn more about yourself?” Zhuo Fan asked in the end. - 1343

Overall, I can see CM Type 2, but Type 1 is clearly not supported since the highest governing force (Heaven's Will) is influenced by its creations.

 

[SweetDao]

Overall, I can see CM Type 2, but Type 1 is clearly not supported since the highest governing force (Heaven's Will) is influenced by its creations.

Feels very flimsy for CM I feel like. The only thing that does remotely imply that is the Dao being the foundation of everything in existence. But even if you were to take that statement to give Dao CM, no one would scale or be able to use it? The guys following their paths are stated to only uses the laws of the world, with the higher level just after being able to affect the worlds itself, but nowhere does it state that they manipulate Daos?

 

[Le_démon_Araii]

Alright so found some things.

Dao is the path a Cultivator comprehends and pursues.




The Dao is the foundation for all existence.


Laws govern the World


The Sovereign Stage allows one to use their Path and manipulate the Laws of the World.


At a certain realm, one breaks free from the World's Laws


Heaven's Will is the source of everything, including the Paths/Dao.



Heaven's Will can be used to create an entirely new world (please don't try 1-A)


Overall, I can see CM Type 2, but Type 1 is clearly not supported since the highest governing force (Heaven's Will) is influenced by its creations.

apart from the last 3 which are not so hot, the rest are very useful, thank you

 

[Youngwolf-0.1]

Feels very flimsy for CM I feel like. The only thing that does remotely imply that is the Dao being the foundation of everything in existence. But even if you were to take that statement to give Dao CM, no one would scale or be able to use it? The guys following their paths are stated to only uses the laws of the world, with the higher level just after being able to affect the worlds itself, but nowhere does it state that they manipulate Daos?

Yes Zhuo Fan fully embodies to Dao

 

[Youngwolf-0.1]

Alright so found some things.

Dao is the path a Cultivator comprehends and pursues.




The Dao is the foundation for all existence.


Laws govern the World


The Sovereign Stage allows one to use their Path and manipulate the Laws of the World.


At a certain realm, one breaks free from the World's Laws


Heaven's Will is the source of everything, including the Paths/Dao.



Heaven's Will can be used to create an entirely new world (please don't try 1-A)


Overall, I can see CM Type 2, but Type 1 is clearly not supported since the highest governing force (Heaven's Will) is influenced by its creations.

We can't use the last three since that's is fan made

 

[SweetDao]

Yes Zhuo Fan fully embodies to Dao

scan?

 

[Le_démon_Araii]

Feels very flimsy for CM I feel like. The only thing that does remotely imply that is the Dao being the foundation of everything in existence. But even if you were to take that statement to give Dao CM, no one would scale or be able to use it? The guys following their paths are stated to only uses the laws of the world, with the higher level just after being able to affect the worlds itself, but nowhere does it state that they manipulate Daos?

This I can rebunk with what Zhuo said when he said that the Celestial Sovereign only used the effects of the paths, but not their essences, the one who unites them can reform them at any time, which implies directly manipulating the path, the Dao itself, and then Zhuo merged with the 10 paths.

 

[SweetDao]

This I can rebunk with what Zhuo said when he said that the Celestial Sovereign only used the effects of the paths, but not their essences, the one who unites them can reform them at any time, which implies directly manipulating the path, the Dao itself, and then Zhuo merged with the 10 paths.

Give scans.

 

[Le_démon_Araii]

scan?

In Taoism, attaining the Dao means embodying the Dao, because the Dao flows through everything and every being.

 

[SweetDao]

In Taoism, attaining the Dao means embodying the Dao, because the Dao flows through everything and every being.

If there's no scan, it means nothing.

 

[Youngwolf-0.1]

scan?

Here

 

[Le_démon_Araii]

Give scans.

Here is the chapter where he talks about effects and essence, and here is where the Celestial Sovereign says that Zhuo and the path are one and the same.

 

[Le_démon_Araii]

If there's no scan, it means nothing.

This fact does not come from the novel, but from the Tao Te King, the Taoist work, bearing in mind that Demonic Emperor is based on Taoism and that Taoism is the search for the Dao.

 

[Youngwolf-0.1]

Here is the chapter where he talks about effects and essence, and here is where the Celestial Sovereign says that Zhuo and the path are one and the same.

Not send all chapter at least just send the important scenes

 

[Le_démon_Araii]

N'envoyez pas tous les chapitres, envoyez au moins juste les scènes importantes

Je ne peux pas, je n'ai pas ce que tu utilises.

 

[SweetDao]

Here

I'm a bit iffy to accept this, but if others think it's fine, it's good ig.

 

[SweetDao]

Not send all chapter at least just send the important scenes

I've checked the chapter, too. It does make the difference between the effect of the path and its essence, but is there any elaboration about what that "essence" is? The way I see it, there is a difference between "using void attacks" and "understanding/using void manipulation itself". Of course, I can be wrong, but that's the feeling I get.

 

[BreezeHM]

Feels very flimsy for CM I feel like. The only thing that does remotely imply that is the Dao being the foundation of everything in existence. But even if you were to take that statement to give Dao CM, no one would scale or be able to use it? The guys following their paths are stated to only uses the laws of the world, with the higher level just after being able to affect the worlds itself, but nowhere does it state that they manipulate Daos?

Was thinking the same thing. Dao isn't really a fundamental aspect they can manipulate, it just gives them access to the laws. Seems more like the source of powers and how everyone just draws from it. Was just giving OP some stuff to look at since he would have better information. And since that last stuff was a fan made chapter? Doesn't really look like CM is really supported.

 

[Reiner04]

Is there any scan which proves manipulating Dao can affect the reality/object it governs?

 

[Le_démon_Araii]

I've checked the chapter, too. It does make the difference between the effect of the path and its essence, but is there any elaboration about what that "essence" is? The way I see it, there is a difference between "using void attacks" and "understanding/using void manipulation itself". Of course, I can be wrong, but that's the feeling I get.

Not everyone understands this, but basically by understanding the essence, Zhuo Fan was able to retrieve the 10 paths that the Celestial Sovereign had refined, the essence is equivalent to understanding the heart, the true meaning of the path, it's all about understanding the path, as Zhuo had a better understanding, he took all the paths back from himNot everyone understands this, but basically by understanding the essence, Zhuo Fan was able to recover the 10 paths that the Celestial Sovereign had refined, the essence is equivalent to understanding the heart, the true meaning of the path, it's all a question of understanding the path, as Zhuo had a better understanding, he took all the paths back from him

 

[SweetDao]

Not everyone understands this, but basically by understanding the essence, Zhuo Fan was able to retrieve the 10 paths that the Celestial Sovereign had refined, the essence is equivalent to understanding the heart, the true meaning of the path, it's all about understanding the path, as Zhuo had a better understanding, he took all the paths back from him

Yeah it doesn't really help for CM I'd say. You would need something like "The essence of the path are abstract stuff that govern an aspect of reality" type of statement.

 

[Le_démon_Araii]

Is there any scan which proves manipulating Dao can affect the reality/object it governs?

The Void Path affects space. Zhuo says that the divine eye of the void is the best skill for manipulating space, and the divine eye of the void was created using the powers of the Void Path, for example.