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Maou Gakuin additions

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EldemadeDityjon said:
You never addressed the actual issue. You didn’t even mention whether the new arguments still fail to qualify. The 3-month rule applies to threads with the same arguments—not to new arguments or entirely different topics.
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Yare yare, What an interesting approach by Darksoul eh.

Buddy could have taken the matter of whether or not this thread (information of the world) is a repetition of prior MG info CRTs (information of an individual) into a different thread itself. But blud is sending bullet texts about it one after right within an upgrade CRT, mhmm~

Audience manipulation perhaps ? How scary..


EldemadeDityjon said:
Anyway this seems derailing. It's not just me anyone can see your arguments and replies. So whatever. I'll just stop here and let staff evaluate the thread.

You can reply to this message in Maou Discussion thread we can discuss there.
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Indeed ^^
It will be interesting to have Darksoul personally provide some arguments for discussion. I'm really intrigued by his stance afterall.
 
What would the negation of type 4 acausality even constitute? Type 4 is for those who operate under different causal systems so the negation of that would be bringing them into the normal one so I'd disagree on type 4 negation. This is more of an interaction feat, negation would be more like Venudonoa being able to remove something from the order of time, Equis incorporating various other misfits into order, using reincarnation to incorporate a misfit into order like Anos suggested he could do to Graham using Gijerica.

Unless we have another interpretation of what negating type 4 constitutes, I'm inclined to disagree
 
Disagree with IM2, to get IM2 the information has to be a fundamental aspect/information of reality. not just memories of a person.
 
Tatsumi504 said:
What would the negation of type 4 acausality even constitute? Type 4 is for those who operate under different causal systems so the negation of that would be bringing them into the normal one so I'd disagree on type 4 negation. This is more of an interaction feat, negation would be more like Venudonoa being able to remove something from the order of time, Equis incorporating various other misfits into order, using reincarnation to incorporate a misfit into order like Anos suggested he could do to Graham using Gijerica.

Unless we have another interpretation of what negating type 4 constitutes, I'm inclined to disagree
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Okay, I thought that negation could also cover something like interaction, so it would be something like "interaction with ACC4"?
 
Disagree
Dog3352 said:
The world is structured by order. The order is what makes the thing what it is, what makes birds be birds, what makes demons being demons, etc. These are the laws of nature and magic.
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The Order of the Past governs the past, but oneself is the past; an anti-feat directly confronting the fact that Order is a fundamental aspect (Order can't even reach concept type 1, let alone information type 2).
“Indeed. But I, too, am undying. As the order of traces, I am the past of everything in existence. You can rewrite time all you wish, but the past that existed won’t change.”

As the order of the records and memories, the God of Traces was the past itself. Destroying him would require altering the past, but there was little chance of that happening against the god of such an order, even with time magic.
Click to expand...


Dog3352 said:
This literally has nothing to do with the other topics (one went to magic formulas, another for sources, and this is for order), and the difference of type 1 and type 2 is the reality that information should cover, which the order covers.
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But assuming that memory is infor2, what does it have to do with source also being infor2 when source is just something that contains memory, and Ivis being erased from memory doesn’t even die, then what is the fundamental aspect?
 
you need proof that it contains information over the past, present and future of the entire cosmology for it to be info 2 (it doesn't have to be the entire cosmology but yeah still)
 
Robo432343 said:
you need proof that it contains information over the past, present and future of the entire cosmology for it to be info 2 (it doesn't have to be the entire cosmology but yeah still)
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The last time I saw someone saying this, I remember a person by kidding the person ... Where exactly is it written?
 
I agree with @Dark_Soul20189 on this, and also, DontTalk disagrees with information type 2 sources since it was a concept, and the reason here is the same as the last one.


The order of traces is what makes traces traces—the very whatness of traces—meaning it is rather the concept of traces rather than information itself.


A concept defines something, makes it what it is, and governs it, while information type 2 is information that makes up or serves as the building block of a thing's reality. That is the reason it is fundamental information to begin with—any other reason would mean it is not information type 2.
 
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Ruler_Star_Kuma said:
That's a thing??? When??? Feel like there's examples for verses to where that isn't the case but, weird
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thats just one way to qualify
idk why i said you need it, there are other ways but it looks like the only way this particular case can qualify for info 2 is if it contains info over past, present and future. so far we only have past and memories which isn't enough
 
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Echitesu said:
The Order of the Past governs the past, but oneself is the past; an anti-feat directly confronting the fact that Order is a fundamental aspect (Order can't even reach concept type 1, let alone information type 2).
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God is order, we already have this in the profiles, just as the order (traces) are ... orders, it has been accepted for a long time.
 
Grabbing_dragon said:
I agree with @Dark_Soul20189 on this, and also, DontTalk disagrees with information type 2 sources since it was a concept, and the reason here is the same as the last one.


The order of traces is what makes traces traces—the very whatness of traces—meaning it is rather the concept of traces rather than information itself.


A concept defines what makes something itself and governs it, while an information type 2 is information that makes up or serves as the building block of a thing's reality. That is the reason it is fundamental information to begin with—any other reason would mean it is not information type 2.
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Something can be both concept and information, and DT didn't really disagree, he just pointed out that the source was already a concept, and the update wasn't even for the source..
 
Echitesu said:
Disagree

The Order of the Past governs the past, but oneself is the past; an anti-feat directly confronting the fact that Order is a fundamental aspect (Order can't even reach concept type 1, let alone information type 2).

But assuming that memory is infor2, what does it have to do with source also being infor2 when source is just something that contains memory, and Ivis being erased from memory doesn’t even die, then what is the fundamental aspect
Click to expand...
what in the heck are you going on about...?? and we're talking about traces, what are you bringing up sources for
 
Dog3352 said:
God is order, we already have this in the profiles, just as the order (traces) are ... orders, it has been accepted for a long time.
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I still believe order should have its own page, since people who don't know the verse have no idea how it functions.
 
Echitesu said:
Disagree

The Order of the Past governs the past, but oneself is the past; an anti-feat directly confronting the fact that Order is a fundamental aspect (Order can't even reach concept type 1, let alone information type 2).
Click to expand...
how is concept of past being past of everything an anti-feat?
and order are already accepted as type 1 concept , wym it can't reach type 1.
 
Echitesu said:
The Order of the Past governs the past, but oneself is the past; an anti-feat directly confronting the fact that Order is a fundamental aspect (Order can't even reach concept type 1, let alone information type 2).
Click to expand...
👀 My bro is here onto Orders being physical things.

Orders aren't objects themselves, they are the notion or idea behind said objects, which makes them what they are (stated in scans). So the only interpretation one can make from the statement "I'm the past itself", while considering that it's already established that Orders and physical objects being different, it's that it's refering to the conceptualized version of the term "past".

As a God who's Order is basically the information in the form of traces giving meaning to the term "past", he himself is the conceptual embodiment of it.
 
Dog3352 said:
God is order, we already have this in the profiles, just as the order (traces) are ... orders, it has been accepted for a long time.
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A few words are more accurate than Anos proving that the God is not Order, and Nosgalia proving to itself that it is not Order.
“Laugh.”

“What?”

“If you can laugh in this situation, you are order. I mean no ill will. I will deal with you accordingly, but I won’t destroy you. However, if you fear me too much to laugh, then that’s not something I can overlook.”

Nosgalia stared at me lifelessly.

“I’ll give you three seconds. In that time, prove that you are order. Three.” Speechless, Nosgalia gritted his teeth.

“Two.”

He hung his head with a grim expression. “One.”

Gasping, he strained his voice. “Ha...ha ha ha...” There was indeed a smile on his face.

“Would you look at that? You laughed, Nosgalia. That means you wish to live. You’ve proved that you are not order,” I said.

Once he recovered from his shock, Nosgalia raised his arm in rage. “You...You dare humiliate the gods!”

I evaded his swing and drove my arm through his abdomen.
Click to expand...
 
Robo432343 said:
you need proof that it contains information over the past, present and future of the entire cosmology for it to be info 2 (it doesn't have to be the entire cosmology but yeah still)
Click to expand...
You're being quite overly and additionally specific with what reality means. That kind of specifics if needed has to be mentioned in the page. It's only been ever this specific for Low 2-C tier due to it's nature. Reality by itself just means world/universe. That's the reason Alien X couldn't get Low 2-C for long time despite having several statements of being able to destroy reality.
 
I would thank you to read this comment:

First: I will change the ACC4 Negation for "Interaction with ACC4", I believe everyone is in accordance with that.

Second: Please stop commenting on other topics, none of them really matters here.

Third: I would like to ask them not to repeat arguments, especially related to something like "memories" since this is not really the point of CRT.
 
ROZAN-U said:
how is concept of past being past of everything an anti-feat?
and order are already accepted as type 1 concept , wym it can't reach type 1.
Click to expand...
The Concept of Past, which is the Past itself, is an Anti-feature for Concept type 1. If the Concept of Past is destroyed, then all pasts are destroyed as well. However, when all pasts are destroyed, the concept of past also dies (because the concept of past is past). This indicates that the order of past is concept type 2.

The order is not even a concept, so it is not a type 2 concept; then what does the order of the past have to become foundational information?
“Impossible,” Elrolarielm remarked. “Order is not some vague concept. The logic of the gods is absolute. What you speak of is pure speculation.”
Click to expand...
 
Agree with the thread, except the Vebzod one. There's one comment from author which implies Order of Traces inscribes the past as data. So leaning towards agreeing.

Echitesu said:
Years may go against the order, but Nosgalia does not. Nosgalia proves itself not to be the order.
Click to expand...

Then make a thread to downgrade order instead of derailing here.

I don't understand your argument. It just means Anos' fear hax is that potent

Echitesu said:
However, when all pasts are destroyed, the concept of past also dies (because the concept of past is past).
Click to expand...
It doesn't. Nothing suggests that. Anos literally destroyed the past of the entire world and order of traces was fine.
 
Okay, from now on I'm ignoring any comments about IM2 until staff evaluates, unless someone comes with something plausible instead of mentioning other topics or an argument that doesn't even exist in this CRT.
Echitesu said:
The Concept of Past, which is the Past itself, is an Anti-feature for Concept type 1. If the Concept of Past is destroyed, then all pasts are destroyed as well. However, when all pasts are destroyed, the concept of past also dies (because the concept of past is past). This indicates that the order of past is concept type 2.

The order is not even a concept, so it is not a type 2 concept; then what does the order of the past have to become foundational information?
Click to expand...
By the way, what is there with the order of order to be a concept type 1 or 2? This has nothing to do with CRT, if you want to complain about it here, go and make a CRT, since this CRT was not made to discuss this, if I see another comment about it, I will report it at the same time for derailment
.
 
Dog3352 said:
Okay, from now on I'm ignoring any comments about IM2 until staff evaluates, unless someone comes with something plausible instead of mentioning other topics or an argument that doesn't even exist in this CRT.

By the way, what is there with the order of order to be a concept type 1 or 2? This has nothing to do with CRT, if you want to complain about it here, go and make a CRT, since this CRT was not made to discuss this, if I see another comment about it, I will report it at the same time for derailment
.
Click to expand...
I only find it funny, my friend. You prove that the trace is infor2, even though the trace itself doesn't prove anything to be infor2. You use the trace as a past order, so the trace has a foundational nature. Therefore, I only need to prove that the order is not a foundational aspect for the trace not to be infor2.
 
Echitesu said:
I only find it funny, my friend. You prove that the trace is infor2, even though the trace itself doesn't prove anything to be infor2. You use the trace as a past order, so the trace has a foundational nature. Therefore, I only need to prove that the order is not a foundational aspect for the trace not to be infor2.
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How about you calm down with the spite
 
Before I forget, I think I mentioned this when Order also got physics manipultaion but, not every order will pertain to affecting physics. The Order of gravity, light, sound might constitute manipulating physics same with creation and destruction that have feats akin to affecting vectors but an order like birth, death, termination, binding etc would have nothing to do with that (actually, Wesnera could probably break physics in some way but you get the point.
 
Echitesu said:
I only find it funny, my friend. You prove that the trace is infor2, even though the trace itself doesn't prove anything to be infor2. You use the trace as a past order, so the trace has a foundational nature. Therefore, I only need to prove that the order is not a foundational aspect for the trace not to be infor2.
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If you want to prove that the order is not fundamental, you have to make a type 1 downgrade topic, do not keep downgrade comments to CM1 in a topic that has nothing to do with CM 1, order like CM1 has already been accepted, if not satisfied and that proving that the order is not CM1, make your downgrade CRT.

And if you don't know, CM2 is still fundamental to reality.
 
Echitesu said:
The Concept of Past, which is the Past itself, is an Anti-feature for Concept type 1. If the Concept of Past is destroyed, then all pasts are destroyed as well. However, when all pasts are destroyed, the concept of past also dies (because the concept of past is past). This indicates that the order of past is concept type 2.

The order is not even a concept, so it is not a type 2 concept; then what does the order of the past have to become foundational information?
Click to expand...
No even when all pasts are destroyed as long as concept of past exist it can be always restored.

this is shown when anos destroys LOT
on fifth step , LOT was recording the traces of what was destroyed so order of past can record even the all destroyed past along with the destruction itself.
On my fifth step, countless bookshelves rose once again, recording the
traces of destruction until now. The bookshelves shook violently before
being crushed into pieces. Broken by my footstep, the shattered sky
flickered overhead.
Click to expand...

as for "concept of past is past" the past he is referring himself is conceptualizing version as traces themself are conceptualize version of past. So by destroying all past (referred to object under concept of past) won't include concept of past("trace" to be correct)


as for the statement of "order not being vague concept" , it has nothing to do with any type concepts here.
or maybe by your logic it's not a vague concept but pure concept

it had already become one with the order and reason of the world—a pure concept that existed incessantly
Click to expand...
 
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