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Marvel: Fantastic Four Speed Downgrade

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This revision needs to be completed in order to fix the massive issues this verse has in speed. Guess that's what happens when you sloppily downgrade a chunk of the verse to (High) Hypersonic.

I agree with the FF being downgraded to Spidey's level, seems Rel+ Spidey is weirdly contentious.
 
ShakeResounding said:
This revision needs to be completed in order to fix the massive issues this verse has in speed. Guess that's what happens when you sloppily downgrade a chunk of the verse to (High) Hypersonic.

I agree with the FF being downgraded to Spidey's level, seems Rel+ Spidey is weirdly contentious.
Click to expand...
Someone brought up downgrading planet busters and everyone moved on to that 😴
 
ShakeResounding said:
This revision needs to be completed in order to fix the massive issues this verse has in speed. Guess that's what happens when you sloppily downgrade a chunk of the verse to (High) Hypersonic.

I agree with the FF being downgraded to Spidey's level, seems Rel+ Spidey is weirdly contentious.
Click to expand...
Looking back at the profiles, I have a ton of issues with the Rela+ justifications used for the F4 too, actually.

  1. The "moving only slightly slower than light-speed" narration statement could very easily be hyperbole.
  2. This is aim-dodging. Reed notices the ball that is shooting out lasers before he avoids it in the next panel, and he literally states that he cannot avoid said lasers unless he is constantly keeping track of the robot firing them. In pretty much all of the instances where he is dodging these lasers, he is looking at the robot to track it's movements.
  3. This is also aim-dodging. Sue is placing the barriers up before the lasers fire/reach her, for the exact purpose of richocheting them in order to destroy themselves. In the bottom panel, Tigra implies that the unpredictability of the lasers would soon mean that she could not avoid them any longer, which cements that she could not react to them.
  4. This one is quite frankly really dumb. For most of the panels except for one, she isn't even dodging them, they're missing her and she just notices them. The only panel where she actually reacts to these lasers is when her forcefield automatically shields her from the lasers before they can hit her. The story implies this was outside of her conscious thought/reaction as well.

So, uh...yeah. Rela+ F4 has definitely gotta go.
 
Which staff members think what here so far, and what do we currently need to do here? 🙏
 
Dalesean027 said:
For now downgrading the Rel+ characters based on the Fantastic 4 feat is what's agreed on
Click to expand...
Thank you for your reply, but please elaborate/explain more indepth. 🙏
 
Antvasima said:
Thank you for your reply, but please elaborate/explain more indepth. 🙏
Click to expand...
StoneKillerz12 said:
Looking back at the profiles, I have a ton of issues with the Rela+ justifications used for the F4 too, actually.

  1. The "moving only slightly slower than light-speed" narration statement could very easily be hyperbole.
  2. This is aim-dodging. Reed notices the ball that is shooting out lasers before he avoids it in the next panel, and he literally states that he cannot avoid said lasers unless he is constantly keeping track of the robot firing them. In pretty much all of the instances where he is dodging these lasers, he is looking at the robot to track it's movements.
  3. This is also aim-dodging. Sue is placing the barriers up before the lasers fire/reach her, for the exact purpose of richocheting them in order to destroy themselves. In the bottom panel, Tigra implies that the unpredictability of the lasers would soon mean that she could not avoid them any longer, which cements that she could not react to them.
  4. This one is quite frankly really dumb. For most of the panels except for one, she isn't even dodging them, they're missing her and she just notices them. The only panel where she actually reacts to these lasers is when her forcefield automatically shields her from the lasers before they can hit her. The story implies this was outside of her conscious thought/reaction as well.

So, uh...yeah. Rela+ F4 has definitely gotta go.
Click to expand...
 
Suigetsuhyugs said:
prevent constant CRTs of downgrade/upgrade to keep street tiers consistent.
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The term "street tier" has always been strange to me for this reason. Comics tend to mix street with mid-tier characters consistently. At least in terms of speed and reaction.

Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
That thread is single-handedly responsible for why the Marvel street tier profiles are horrible as they stand,
Click to expand...
yea, attempting to confine and nitpick street tier feats isn't fair.
we give mid tiers a certain rating for like 1 or 2 feats.


Tomfer said:
since the arguments here are leaning more on downgrading F4 rather than upgrading Spidey,
Click to expand...
i agree on upgrading Spider-man over downgrading the FF.
Spider-Man being faster than the avg street tier is consistent with him.
i don't even know why we group Peter up with the other ones, he's always stood a tier above them.
Tomfer said:
Spider-man holding back SPEED is just a dumb concept. He's known to hold back punches, but thinking he's going to get tagged because he wants to is a poor argument.
Click to expand...
this i agree with.
there's nothing to support Spider-man holds his speed back.
 
MadeByZiggy said:
however, this crt brought some feats for Spider-Man to light.
there should be no reasons to NOT upgrade Spider-Man after this.
Click to expand...
Check this


I'm in agreement with downgrading the F4, @StoneKillerz12's reasons for the Relativistic+ feats of Reed and Sue being invalid seem acceptable and, funnily enough, Spider-Man needing to use precognition to dodge light-speed attacks is aparently consistent going by what was said here.

Any other upgrades to street-tiers should be discussed separately, however, i would be happy to help with researching for feats and such.
 
Suigetsuhyugs said:
Is there enough agrees? If yes then someone should make the list of characters that will be affected and what they will scale to right?
Click to expand...
Yeah, the F4, maybe Doom? I don’t know that many F4 related characters
 
Can we just upgrade the street tier cast to Hypersonic+/High Hypersonic now? I'd say 3-4 calcs is enough to prove "consistency" in this case considering we literally have only one Hypersonic calc for the street tiers coming off of Elektra and nobody else displays Hypersonic calcs (Daredevil consists of Subsonic, Transonic and Supersonic shit).
 
M3X_2.0 said:
Yeah, the F4, maybe Doom? I don’t know that many F4 related characters
Click to expand...
A lot of characters are currently scaling to relativistic+ because of the F4, and not just those "related" it's a huge chain scaling of characters scaling to others who scale to others who scale to the F4, if I were you I would probably start with this list of the current marvel 5-Bs. But you just might as well check every marvel profile.
 
KLOL506 said:
Can we just upgrade the street tier cast to Hypersonic+/High Hypersonic now? I'd say 3-4 calcs is enough to prove "consistency" in this case considering we literally have only one Hypersonic calc for the street tiers coming off of Elektra and nobody else displays Hypersonic calcs (Daredevil consists of Subsonic, Transonic and Supersonic shit).
Click to expand...
Wouldn't it be better to have it's own CRT? That would be another list of Marvel Street tiers to go through.
 
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