Thor's "Thematic" Section

[The_Impress]

Well, I suppose that might work, but I still think that people are largely overreacting here, at least regarding the current state of Thor's page in particular.

Idk I'm pretty calm, can't say for others.

But yeah sure, I can gather a few supporters to write up a personality evolution writeup for Thor (and similarly other long-running characters) to put into the Explanation, and get it added via a CRT (you can input as well to add any points missing). Meanwhile the summary section should ideally only focus on giving an outline of the character's history, powers, and common-across-incarnations personality traits, so the other content should be good to remove

We can agree on that as the compromise and conclude the thread?

 

[Damage3245]

It's not like I'm demanding that the summary section be excised completely. Having a discussion about the wording and providing suggestions is very far from overreacting.

 

[Nierre]

Please check the current version of Thor's page. I removed the thematics section long ago.

You're right that Legends' reads more as Standard Battle Tactics.

I don't have any strong opinions on the matter, but the current summary isn't too bad of a change. It's definitely not that big of a deal, especially compared to the original one. So it's ok to me unless someone has something better.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Well, I suppose that I can clean up his summary section then.

Like I noted on the profile post, due to the various unknowns surrounding my Canon split CRT, it's going to be deleted and split, both need a CRT because obviously it's technically remaking part of a profile, but yeh.

I am far from free of sin, but I am at least striving towards being as nice as I can manage by striving towards some rational moral ideals, and I have altruistically worked for over 40,000 hours with a job that gives me no money and very limited joy simply because thousands of people here need my help, and I genuinely do not think that elaborate ideological brainwashing is comparable to writing brief "who would win" text segments on a message board.

It's the way you do it Ant, that's why it's being extremist. Find something you enjoy, and take the good with the bad. My entire point on Bigby is that we aren't the wiki to talk to for things like that. We never have been, it's why my profiles tend to have long quotes and multiple of them, I'm showing a bit of the personality of the character. But we have our roles in something like this. It's up to you if you want to expand from your role to talk to people on Bigby's personality and changing the perception of it, by having the wiki page people actually look at for this kinda thing edited.

No, it is matter of fact truth, which you should know yourself, and I have usually gone to extremes with being helpful, kind, and reasonable, even if I feel very strongly about this specific issue.

Helpful and kind, yes, reasonable... listen as a fellow stubborn MOFO I get it, but I can recount multiple times you haven't been reasonable. Like I said, you mean well, but you're sort of like a Paladin, you're so Lawful Good you actually hurt people.

 

[Antvasima]

I have now attempted to fix Thor's and Bigby's pages. Is that a sufficiently satisfactory solution for most of the people here?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thor_(Marvel_Comics)?diff=8978646&oldid=8978434

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Bigby_Wolf?diff=8978647&oldid=8973651

 

[The_Impress]

ye sure, its ok

 

[Antvasima]

It's not like I'm demanding that the summary section be excised completely. Having a discussion about the wording and providing suggestions is very far from overreacting.

That is obviously perfectly fine, but much of this has felt more like a pile-on against me personally.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I have now attempted to fix Thor's and Bigby's pages now. Is that a sufficiently satisfactory solution for most of the people here?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thor_(Marvel_Comics)?diff=8978646&oldid=8978434

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Bigby_Wolf?diff=8978647&oldid=8973651

Excellent, actually.

 

[Antvasima]

ye sure, its ok

Thank you.

 

[Antvasima]

Excellent, actually.

Thank you to you as well.

 

[DaReaperMan]

That is obviously perfectly fine, but much of this has felt more like a pile-on against me personally.

Listen Ant, I don't mean you ill or anything, this is just a blunt guy speaking his mind on a matter he can actually sorta speak on

 

[Antvasima]

Lets stop this here because otherwise we are going to fall into morale grandstanding and political idiocy.
Ant you said you wanted concessions from the opposition - What exactly do you want?

Just to keep brief self-evident personality summaries in the summary sections like the current one in Thor's page really. I can obviously avoid criticising authors or make general social comments there.

 

[Antvasima]

Listen Ant, I don't mean you ill or anything, this is just a blunt guy speaking his mind on a matter he can actually sorta speak on

Okay. No problem.

 

[Nierre]

looks good to me as well

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Changes seem fine

 

[Antvasima]

Like I noted on the profile post, due to the various unknowns surrounding my Canon split CRT, it's going to be deleted and split, both need a CRT because obviously it's technically remaking part of a profile, but yeh.

It's the way you do it Ant, that's why it's being extremist. Find something you enjoy, and take the good with the bad. My entire point on Bigby is that we aren't the wiki to talk to for things like that. We never have been, it's why my profiles tend to have long quotes and multiple of them, I'm showing a bit of the personality of the character. But we have our roles in something like this. It's up to you if you want to expand from your role to talk to people on Bigby's personality and changing the perception of it, by having the wiki page people actually look at for this kinda thing edited.

Helpful and kind, yes, reasonable... listen as a fellow stubborn MOFO I get it, but I can recount multiple times you haven't been reasonable. Like I said, you mean well, but you're sort of like a Paladin, you're so Lawful Good you actually hurt people.

Well, I am at least usually trying to be reasonable, but I do have strong viewpoints regarding certain issues, as is blatantly obvious for anybody who has read through my wiki userpage, and in some respects I do have a similar personality to a paladin, yes.

 

[Antvasima]

looks good to me as well

Changes seem fine

Thank you.

 

[Agnaa]

Just to keep brief self-evident personality summaries in the summary sections like the current one in Thor's page really. I can obviously avoid criticising authors or make general social comments there.

I was planning to bring this up in DMs soon, but given how this thread is already tackling this sort of thing, I guess I'll post it here.

I think the way you write a lot of those sorts of things, i.e. with She-Hulk's second and fourth paragraphs of Summary, Emma Frost's last sentence of Summary, and this part of Mystique's summary:

She has frequently been a criminal, a sadistic casually thrill-killing mass-murdering terrorist, and a secret agent. Her extremely selfish aims, deceitful manipulative sadism, genocidal supremacism, violent murderous methods, and **** through impersonations

Do not fit with the tone that summaries typically have, and imo should have.

Both a list of crimes, and a list of good deeds, made concise to the point of no longer describing specific plot events, are not particularly useful parts of summaries. After one or two examples we already get the idea that they're good. As an alternative, I think that these things could be written in reference to major beats of the character's history, such as with this part of Thanos' summary:

he is visited again by Mistress Death, for whom he murders his offspring and his pirate captain. Wishing to impress Mistress Death, Thanos gathers an army of villainous aliens and begins a nuclear bombardment of Titan that kills millions of his race, and then begins searching for more power in order to fulfill his goal of spreading death and destruction through the universe for his love

That is a lot better than saying something like "He is a selfish child-killer, mass-murderer, power-hungry nuclear genocidist."

I'd also add that some of these summaries I've mentioned seem to be leaving out other parts of the character's history which seem much more important. Marvel DB's summary for Mystique talks about her long history with Destiny, her role in the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, and her daughter Rogue. Her current summary mentions none of this, the only plot events it mentions being:

• She was born in the late 19th century.
• She began being evil from a young age.
• She sometimes shallowly allied with the X-Men, but then betrayed them.

That seems like it's missing a lot! And while it's not the worst thing for some summaries to be barebones, you reverted it from someone who moved it to the more detailed MarvelDB summary.

 

[Antvasima]

As long as the summaries strictly matter-of-fact stick to the character personalities, I think they are perfectly acceptable and highly relevant, especially for a statistics wiki. I am willing to compromise regarding avoiding complaints about authors or mentioning real world implications, but not accept simply copy-pasting hollow parts of character history sections from other wikis for the sake of whitewashing, as I have mentioned here above. I think that we reached a compromise conclusion here earlier in that regard.

Simply expanding on the history texts is very different from entirely replacing, in my view far more relevant, personality summaries though.

However, this thread has been sufficiently incendiary as it is and I do not find it constructive or worthwhile to have to waste many days of work arguing with 10 or more people at the same time over and over again by repeating myself. I do not have the available time and energy for it, and this discussion ended earlier as far as I am concerned. As such, we should permanently close this thread, and if you wish to continue to argue, please take it to personal PMs, rather than incite another pile-on. Thank you.

 

[Agnaa]

Alright, closing and moving to PMs.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. It is very appreciated.