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I'm perfectly calm, don't know about him, but I'm chilling.
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Wiki Page Deletion Requests Thread (New forum)
- Thread starter Antvasima
- Start date
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Doesn't sound so from the msg above from you, but anyways i need more inputs if those profiles are correct or not so I can decide what to do with those profiles.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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They're correct, the argument is how detailed to make the References. 99% of feats from the profile are for their home game, so if I add more "references" the list will just look like how I mentioned earlier.
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I mean I cursed one time in that entire post, I'm more brutally honest then pissed most of the time. I tend to watch videos while doing things so my being pissed is short lived when I take an hour break from the argument or something lol
There's a party In the discussion thread over this one, I'd go a page back and read from there?
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Because it quite very obviously is, or at least not in line with the Mainline games for you to be mixing them.
You can make Masters EX variants of the characters if you want sure, but keep it separate from the main games, because they quite obviously dont allign.
I mean, you're literally trying to claim that the whole DLC stories for Sword and Shield aren't canon (mainline additions) in favour of some random Masters EX storyline.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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Yeah, I figured you would just ignore all my evidence towards it being canon and just argue in bad faith against a game you've never played.
Isle of Armor is still canon. They make it very clear that it still happened the way it did in the game.
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Your evidence was four random statements splashed around different sites and interviews, with you taking them way too series, against...literally everything else that tells you Masters EX did NOT happen. Its whats expected of huge gacha crossover games. IT might give you the broken composite scaling you want for a character, but dont confuse it for their mainline counterpart
Okay so why wouldnt Crown Tundra be? Because Masters EX did something that contradicts it??
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Even if you're right somehow, its still not something you can make since clearly a lot of people disagree with you, so you're better coming up with a CRT and fighting for it if you truly believe you can lump Masters EX with main canon.
So until that decision is made, we shouldn't really make anymore Pokemon profiles with shaky info thats compositing guised as a mainline profile.
This is also why we should opt for Continuity sections on Verse Pages, since even if theres nuance, the wiki needs a clear stance on what they're treating as canon/non canon from one another
So until that decision is made, we shouldn't really make anymore Pokemon profiles with shaky info thats compositing guised as a mainline profile.
This is also why we should opt for Continuity sections on Verse Pages, since even if theres nuance, the wiki needs a clear stance on what they're treating as canon/non canon from one another
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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How do you think ANYTHING is ever proven canon? Almost zero media in fiction says, "Oh, by the way, we're canon!" so 99.99% of the time we have to find supplementary material.
Yes. A lot of things, in fact.
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To summarize it to some extent, the profile was made without consulting anyone, it assumes the ending of a mainline game to be basically non-canon based on the fact that a gacha mobile game contradicts it. Side-games should never take precedence over mainline games and the fact that Masters contradicts mainline canon should be taken as evidence that it isn't canon to mainline games, not the other way around.
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Mainline Pokemon games are canon. As with most verses, the actual mainline series is just canon, unless stated to be separate.
Creators can say whether they are canon or not (they tend to be confronted about it if its not clear enough)
Crossover Gacha Mobile games that dont align with mainline canon just...arent. Unless stated otherwise. And your evidence isn't direct enough to combat the many several flaws of Masters EX genuinely being canon to mainline.
Even if Masters EX is 'canon', its not taking precedence over the mainline source material. Like...cmon?
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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People don't need permission to upload profiles, especially from people who clearly want to run the entire show. We have Masters as canon here, and in fact we also have Pokemon GO as a canon alt timeline, so it being a mobile game means nothing. It being noncanon literally means nothing because I've still included Keys for both parts of the game that would be affected.
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Mainline game>Secondary game.
One's easily more canon than the other lol
One's easily more canon than the other lol
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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Really? What evidence suggests it condradicts the mainline games? That they've caught Pokemon since then? A lot of Trainers catch Pokemon we haven't seen before from one game to the next.
Why not?
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You dont need permission, but that doesnt mean you use non-canon media mixed in with mainline profiles, esp without making a CRT about it.
Yeah Pokemon GO being canon is also kinda shaky, cause we're only saying it is so you guys can have 'Golem dodging Solar Beam'. Which is literally just based on fixed animations, not even a cutscene or anything. But Pokemon on this wiki is just not organised enough either way, so lets not make profiles that are confusing the canons all the time.
I dont see any other pages on this wiki, other than the Pokemon Canon discussion page (that doesnt say its mainline canon or takes precedence) talking about Masters EX events.
Yeah Pokemon GO being canon is also kinda shaky, cause we're only saying it is so you guys can have 'Golem dodging Solar Beam'. Which is literally just based on fixed animations, not even a cutscene or anything. But Pokemon on this wiki is just not organised enough either way, so lets not make profiles that are confusing the canons all the time.
I dont see any other pages on this wiki, other than the Pokemon Canon discussion page (that doesnt say its mainline canon or takes precedence) talking about Masters EX events.
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So yeah, i just consulted one of my close friends who is very much knowledgeable in Pokemon franchise, and he also said the same thing. So it would be better if one create a crt for this topic.
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that's a hefty accusation from someone who can't even communicate with others about what's canon and what's not. Either way, you have the right to upload a profile, same way we have the right to delete it.
We? Who is "we"?
exactly, an alternate timeline. If you haven't noticed we have profiles of all forms of official pokemon media which includes PMD, Conquest, Go and more. Masters should simply be one of them, a separate continuity that's part of pokemon's greater multiverse, not as something that overwrites the actual mainline games.
It does actually, unless it is fully confirmed to be on the same level of importance as mainline games, it should never overwrite the canon of mainline games. Just being made accurately to the series is not the same.
It does actually mean something, it affects our treatement of what is canon and what is not, and you went and said "note - these parts of the mainline game? Yeah these ain't canon lmao" in the notes for the profile, something that should never be done.
You want a profile? Go make a separate profile for the masters EX characters and scale them however you want, pretty sure they'd be 2-A as they are right now. Just don't touch the actual canon.
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Other than the concept of a mobile crossover gacha game where they mix and match characters from different times, universes, stories amongst eachother onto one island, with huge outlandish stories involving legendaries that just aren't alligned or associated to the main story regardless then...?
Nothing to do with them catching Pokemon, but yeah, its pretty odd that a lot of these characters just get legendary pokemon outta nowhere like we can act as if they've legit caught them in mainline (the 1 legendary rule most of the time)
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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- Pokémon.com asks the director of Pokemon Masters if they made sure the game was in canon, and he replies that they do indeed make sure it fits the world of Pokemon, and does not deviate from it
- Red’s page says Pokemon Masters is in “the world of Pokemon video games”
- The Sync Pairs section of the Pokemon Masters website has all previous characters’ past appearances as being from mainline games
- In a conversation about Game Lance, Ohmori mentions he’s currently in Pokémon Masters
Udlmaster
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In a more scholarly way of putting it, the sources aren't worth anything.
For example, in papers you don't put, for example, "An introduction to Buddhism by Peter Harvey" or "Peter Harvey" in a quote.
You put the page number or other specific identifiers. Naturally with games this is more difficult, however, to remedy that, it's recommended you take screenshots, recordings or other choice mediums to take snippets of what you want.
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Again, these are pretty much only 4 random statements from secondary sources (not even from the games itself) That you are either taking too literally when they say 'world of Pokemon games', taking lighthearted interview statements as serious and trying to claim that just because the non-canon material is staying true to the character, that it means its canon.
This is not strong enough evidence, or anything directly from a mainline source for you to imply the huge canon implications and contradictions of a mobile crossover gacha games this would mean.
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They very clearly talk about character traits and interactions right after, they made sure it doesn't deviate from how they are portrayed. It never talks about game events, its just made accurate to the "world of pokemon", a broad term that would encompass everything, including teritary canon like PMD, conquest ect.
no, it says Red returned to the world of pokemon video games, which is a kind way of saying that he is making a new video game appearance.
Cool, they are canon to their own stories, doesn't mean that the Masters game can overwrite the mainline game canon
A very non-serious comment bro
you keep trying to use this as evidence but the most it proves is that the characters are made to be accurate to the games in their personality
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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Oh, I can, I just won't communicate with people with the character like you have shown me more than I need to.
The same "we" that has the right to delete my profiles, apparently.
The first two are dubiously canon, and GO specifically is directly shown to be a neighboring timeline to the main games. Masters doesn't do that, it's directly shown to BE the main games.
So we're scaling platforms now? I didn't know Master Chief is >>>> the God of War verse because Xbox is better than Playstation.
But it should be done, because that's how the verse treats it and it's a misconception.
"Just don't touch the actual canon" Credibility waivered.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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Literally the creator of the ******* game says it's canon in the first scan and that's still not enough for this kid...
Udlmaster
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I have no dog in this fight.
But to be fair, there is no method of proving via the games, since this is a meta-textual argument we're having. It can only be proven by extra-textual sources such as developers, the Pokémon company themselves or the Copyright holders.
After all, the intra-textual examples would be the same characters showing up and it's not as if they're going to say "Hi, I'm Dawn from the hit Pokemon classic Pokemon Diamond, Pearl and Platinum from 2007 onwards and the hit TV show Pokemon Diamond and Pearl and Pokemon Diamond, Pearl and Platinum series!"
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Sean you're treating Masters EX as if it's the new main canon of the verse, but this is Pokémon and not FGO, anything from Masters EX that contradicts the mainline console games should be just treated as contradictory and discarded.
Agree with deleting if I am not clear enough.
Agree with deleting if I am not clear enough.
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So you're not willing to cooperate with other supporters regarding what's canon because you think you're better than them, got it.
what the hell is that even supposed to mean, you are literally getting like 0 support in your endeavor, there's no "we", there's only you trying to push something that could be solved by making a profile for the gacha game and not fusing it with mainline
It does not, it never was shown to be the main games, your entire evidence stems from the 4 statements which prove nothing and very clearly shows that the game is secondary to mainline games, the same game's canon you're trying to overwrite here
"credibility waivered" bro thinks he has authority to waiver credibility. Keep dreaming lil man
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Yeah, and none of this is direct confirmation regardless. Its grasping at straws mostly.
But yeah, you can also be confirmed canon mostly if mainline games reference you or the events. Which Pokemon can do when it comes to regions, and its important when to not treat jokey references as too serious (like a picture of Ash in S/M)
But otherwise no, the crossover mobile gacha game with fanfic storylines is just not canon most of the time
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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He only brings up interactions right after. Sounds like he really made sure it fit in canon.
That implies that Masters is in the world of pokemon video games too.
Good, so it IS canon.
Ok.
Literally one scan only partially says that.
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so um... yeah the war definitely started without me.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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Even if Crown Tundra was canon, that would change like a few lines in Gloria's profile, and and wouldn't affect Calem's at all.
Udlmaster
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Like I said, I have no dog in this fight, I do not care which way this argument goes, I'm just stating the facts out loud
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nah, it seems to me he expanded on the point he made and explained that they made sure that their interactions are accurate.
same way basically everything is part of the overall multiverse. Pokemon Scarlet and Violet are in the world of pokemon video games too but they aren't canon to each other, they're canon to their specific timeline. Masters should be its own thing as well and not de-canonize a mainline game
It's canon to itself bro, what more do you want? My entire argument hinges on the simple fact that we should not have it overwrite something that is canon in a mainline game and that it should have its own profile.
ok
It's the only scan that has anything to say about the actual canon. The rest just list what games they appeared in. If that's how it is then we're gonna have 1-A Pikachu because he appeared in Smash bros with Joker from persona.
Udlmaster
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Wait, I just realised.
Guys, move this to a Pokemon discussion thread, this is the Profile deletion thread, this ain't the place for these arguments?
Form a consensus on this topic before bringing it here to prevent the thread moving to the 300 page mark.
Think of the Mods who will have to read these. Won't anyone think of the poor, poor Ant who will read all these?!
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@Starter_Pack @Bobsican @GyroNutz @SamanPatou @CloverDragon03 @LordTracerRequesting that these two profiles get moved to a sandbox and deleted, at least for the time being before CRTs can give a clear verdict.
The two profiles both use non-canon sources mixed with mainline canon, with pretty questionable and assumed items, pokemon etc. They're also based on player characters, who are not canonically distinct on their own to be making pages on (since in the games, they are blank-slate representations of the player, but Pokemon has too much variables and choice compared to other characters of the like.)
Gloria (Pokémon)
Gloria is a girl from Postwick and the main protagonist of Pokémon Sword version and Pokémon Shield version. Born and raised as the neighbor of Leon, the greatest Trainer that Galar has ever known, Gloria was destined for greatness at a young age as she became fast childhood friends with his...vsbattles.fandom.com
Calem
Calem is a Pokémon trainer who recently moved into Vaniville Town in the Kalos region with his mother in Pokémon X and Pokémon Y. Born to the legendary international Rhyhorn racing champion Grace, he had been destined for greatness from a young age. By the time he started his adventure, he...
Since you are are knowledgeable member of verse, i would like your opinions too.
Also @Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera , @Jinx666 and rest of you should not engage in further conversation in this thread. It's clogging the thread, take this to verse discussion thread.
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It's already discussed there, but Sean refuses to cooperate and we're taking action here.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
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Yeah, how dare I not just submit and let people delete all my profiles.
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I said do not engage in further conversation here unless asked, Was i not clear? -_-
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