I mean the problem is that your arguement comes down to semantics which can go either way:
"This wording implies" and "the phrasing...implies" I mean thats nice and all but implies usually mean interpretation
Can you please provide this visual?
You'd need more than the evidence here to get that done, to be honest.
That's actually the opposite of how precedent is applied in law. You're providing two separate types of precedent. The fact that fiction usually has worlds of similar size in the same fiction is more a case of common writing choices. Precedent in law is applied as a way of applying written laws and rules. Meaning that it's the rules of the Wiki that are looked at in the same light as written laws, in which precedent shows how they're applied. Writers don't really have a set of laws to follow in fiction, so precedent doesn't mean too much.
I believe I described above how this is an image in your head. This is what I meant when I said there was a confirmation bias here. You see confirmation of your existing image even where it isn't there. This is actually an extremely common problem.
Except that the struggle seems to have nothing to do with the human world itself so much as something else separating them from each other.
The blog I linked you to doesn't just confirm that the two worlds have different time, but are dimensionally separate. Dimensionally separate space-times are the whole basis of tier 2. However, I do agree that due to site standards 2-A has been made functionally impossible. Whether those standards are right is anyone's guess. Additionally, a timeline doesn't have to be limited to tier 2 if enough context supports it being larger. Again as I've said before and will again the tier 2-A stuff is meaningless to me at this point because the mods have made their vote against it so no point in beating the proverbial dead horse. My problem is Clover trying to detract from the context of DMC for semantically based interpretations.
Alright, I looked at the scan and tracked down the Manga. Clover I don't think Visuals should be taken literally. It is very clearly meant to be an abstract represenation.
I mean they can't be equal in size because the DW literally surrounds the HW on the page of the cosmology comparison which directly affirms one as being infinitely larger then the other. Even if you try to argue only infinitely greater from the stance of potential infinity the biggest problem you face for arguing equivalence is the fact that they're already shown to be unequal on the page itself. Obviously this won't convince you given your clear agenda, but the difficulties you're facing can easily just be dealt with if you conceded on basis of Occam's razor instead of this uphill battle. No one cares about 2-A because the standards already make that impossible. We only care about the size of the DW with respect to the HW as a comparison.
orrrrr it's talking about unending in a temporal sense or it wasnt suppose to end until human world came along
The visuals on pages not related to the direct size comparison with focus on very different topics. Page 6 talks about Mundus's plot and demons victimizing humans. Page 7 talks of Sparda. Page 8 continues on Sparda, but the only relevant page for size comparison: the cosmologically significant page is the one which posits unending darkness versus ray of light with the surrounding darkness versus light backdrop supporting this via Occam's Razor.Alright, I looked at the scan and tracked down the Manga. Clover I don't think Visuals should be taken literally. It is very clearly mean to be an abstract represenation.
I mean the next few images are this:
Yeah, but that is the issue. It is very open to interpretation, and Clover is saying that his interpretation is somehow right.
Link is broken brother
Which would also require evidence on a cosmologically significant page which compares the light versus darkness on the very page itself. Not to mention the DW can contain things as large as the HW within its expanse given the example of the Mundus's palace in the Demonworld which can effortlessly contain a universe which even by 1's metrics is a continuum.
It is?
This does not change what I said.
Bro your link talks of Higher Dimensions by the get-go, how the **** is DMC even comparable
Yah. We also did reject Low 2-C Garlic Jr. despite a similar argument too.
Just shows a blank image for me.
What I mean is that if the overall timeline (DMC's DW is contained by an overall timeline given the DMC multiverse) is bigger then the DW inside it the timeline doesn't obtain that the DW itself is smaller then 2-C nor should it obtain that the DW doesn't have a temporal axis all its own. Being smaller then a verse's timeline only obtains just that; inferiority to that timeline structure. But I digress. Also that's not the Oxford dictionary which is the primary authority on English, but even if I use the somewhat less reputable Merriam Webster, the primary dictionary for American English literal infinity takes primacy before potential infinity (or much larger, but not necessarily infinite) comes into focus. The definition on that is very clear. I cannot speak for Garlic Jr.'s Dead Zone though I'm afraid though it seems his case has ambiguity as to whether infinite speaks of size or the nature of suffering endured there. But it wouldn't be the case for DMC when DMC's Demonworld existed before the HW and was called/defined as a world of endless or unending darkness before the HW ever came to be. Seems to me like you're hastily generalizing here on the supposed similarities in both cases which are about as similar as milk and water in actual practice.This does not change what I said.
Bro your link talks of Higher Dimensions by the get-go, how the **** is DMC even comparable
Yah. We also did reject Low 2-C Garlic Jr. despite a similar argument too.
How's this one?
It works.
I thought that's the point of VS debates??? To convince people (in this case, the staff) of one interpretation or another???
Agreed. It really comes down to rhetoric and evidence of one or another interpretations.
Yes, but not by semantics. By evidence and scans.
And this is also undeniably true for powerscaling. Things may become murky waters leading to more text based argumentation, but semantics is meaningless if it's not backed up with evidence. Evidence is always the starting point and foundation upon which arguments can feasibly exist.
I am disageeing with your evidence. The images are clearly meant to be abstract interpretation unless you want to argue this
What's the original scan of thisI am disageeing with your evidence. The images are clearly meant to be abstract interpretation unless you want to argue this
is an accurate representation of the Demon World.
And this
is an accurate representation of Sparda
Technically you're right even when extending to the cosmology page for unending darkness versus finite ray of light because it's impossible to portray in picture form a finite world in comparison to an infinite world. At best they make an attempt to portray the infinity through the darkness being all encompassing on the page and let the statement speak for itself. However, given that the page itself has cosmological significance and speaks very straightforward with regard to the cosmology on that specific page it's much safer to just take it at its word imo.I am disageeing with your evidence. The images are clearly meant to be abstract interpretation unless you want to argue this
is an accurate representation of the Demon World.
And this
is an accurate representation of Sparda
Apparently can't link to M a n g a D e x. It is from the DMC 3 Manga Chapter 1. Page 6-8.
You can always just get it on divinity statue as a free download which is a large scale DMC project for compiling DMC materials unaltered. You can even get the Japanese scans there for the manga as well (ironically they make infinitely bigger DW way more blatant). Anyways, Imma watch some TV or something....yeah Imma do just that...
Really? Might be worth looking into that.
If you wanna make a downgrade on that I can help,but it'd be Staff Only though.
Those "semantics" are crucial to communicating one meaning vs. another, so I'm not a big fan of dismissing them the way you are. There's a very important point to this thread, whether you like or not, so can we not do this sorta talk? Thanks
Not on this website unfortunately, despite my best efforts notwithstanding.
You seem very confused. The point of tier 2 is dimensionally separated universes/spaces as big as our own that have either 4D scaling or its own temporal axis. A verse doesn't have to be in a strict multiverse to achieve that. Additionally, the opposite can also be true where a timeline is much bigger then 4D on the merits of its own verse's cosmology. Context will determine these things on a case to case basis.
You know what. Now that I've had some time to think about it. You may be right, this is a pointless thread all things considered besides the 2-A removal.
I don't think anyone will take issue with that.
